Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

Whoomp. There it is.

We tried telling ya'll but ya'll want to believe in pieces of cardboard.

Silly children. Cardboard is for the homeless. Not Smash Theories.

Or well, if you're a child (A grown man with no children) its for Labo

 

[Paperchampion23]

Japanese fighter playlist was updated two days ago. I went through and checked; all the videos have the same upload date they used to, so nothing's been changed. This means that new unlisted videos were probably uploaded.

That being said, I don't think this really means anything unless you were convinced we'd already seen every character in the game. It's good practice to have video production done far in advance so you have time to fix anything that goes wrong.

So we know it happened with Isabelle, but I wish we could figure out if it also happened with August too. If it did, we may actually be able to expect something next week.

 

[Cosmic77]

Olimar had his fair share of fans, and also brought a new series into the game. He was kind of like what Shulk was to Smash 4, not a massive fan favorite, but had a solid fanbase nonetheless.

Ending it on a new Pokémon is like the second least hype way to go out, with a Fire Emblem newcomer probably being number one. Big franchises with many fans, but everyone and their mother knows they're getting newcomers, and even fans of those franchises won't be happy with just any addition as they're usually very split on who they want from them, so it's never going to be a surefire winner even in that regard. Like, thank god Incineroar leaked, would have been a huge mess if Decidueye and Lycanroc fans still believed their choices were the frontrunners, only to be met with huge disappointment.

I'm not saying it's unlikely or anything, just that if that's how it goes they've made a poor decision. It doesn't have to be a Ridley/K. Rool style reveal, because quite frankly it can't be, and I agree with their decision to show the biggest guns early aswell, but ending it on a Pokémon newcomer is just meh regardless of how big the series is, an Olimar/Shulk type of reveal is much better than that imo.

I think you're exaggerating how subpar Incineroar would be as the final newcomer, especially when the fanbase is responsible for creating this "save a hype character for last" idea which has never been done before in the past. Olimar had his fans, but to say he was "hype" is generous to say the least. And Shulk? If you want to talk about leaked characters we should be thankful for, Shulk is close to the top. If it weren't for Gematsu, I can guarantee you that even some of Smashboards regulars wouldn't have known who he was. Ending Smash 4 with a very niche character (who didn't even get a proper worldwide reveal) from a franchises with only one game at the time wasn't exactly "hype".

I don't believe Incineroar is the final rep, however, even if he was, he'd still be a pretty notable character. The Smash fanbase might be indifferent thanks to Decidueye and Lycanroc, but there's almost 15 million people who played his game. There's bound to be thousands of people who're excited to see their favorite starter get in Smash. Obviously I wouldn't say he's in the same ranks as Ridley and K. Rool, but he doesn't have to be. Again, there's never been a hard rule of saving the biggest reveals for last.

 

[Dcas]

Denial of there being only two characters minimum left and neither of them being "hype"
Though to be fair, NonSpecificGuy's reasoning as to why this hurts the box theory is sound.

Oh then i agree totally with you, people at this rate believen there are more than 4 characters left (including echoes) are in for a mayor letdown.

Let´s be real, all the evidence and time left are pointing towards that. Hopefully those guys who are wishful thinking wont rage

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Japanese fighter playlist was updated two days ago. I went through and checked; all the videos have the same upload date they used to, so nothing's been changed. This means that new unlisted videos were probably uploaded.

That being said, I don't think this really means anything unless you were convinced we'd already seen every character in the game. It's good practice to have video production done far in advance so you have time to fix anything that goes wrong.

Hm. While I know I probably shouldn't get my hopes up, this might point to a reveal this month. While Sakurai did say reveals would be slowing down, I still think it could happening because, well, when the hell else are they going to do reveals? This also might dent the box/card theory depending on who it is.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't think it hurts it at all.

Putting an empty space right next to Ryu on the Box would give away who a character is, which is the only viable reason why they didn't showcase the side of the box with Mario on it. On the card, everyone is shown, so they'd need to manipulate Ryu's portion more to not reveal the identity of a newcomer.

Completely different scenarios. One is a 3D object with characters split between two sides, and the other is a 2D object with all characters on one side. Those different objects require different things to be done to keep the newcomers a surprise.

Wow. I gotta say man. This is some mental gymnastics to make a theory sound here.

''They only didn't show Mario's side to not reveal Ken!"
''Everyone is here, so they don't want to reveal Ken by shifting Ryu's portion more."

Like do you not hear yourself?

That's an AWFUL lot of trouble to make a theory sound. And that is why these theories are so silly.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So we know it happened with Isabelle, but I wish we could figure out if it also happened with August too. If it did, we may actually be able to expect something next week.

No source but I believe we confirmed it happened in August as well, hence the pattern. But did we confirm it was 10 days before the original Isabelle planned reveal (the 6th) or the official (the 13th).

That might break the pattern.

 

[Paperchampion23]

If we get 1 or 2 newcomers (1 unique and/or 1 echo) next week as individual trailers, it bodes well for a final direct in November having at least another 1-3 characters (We know Sakurai will probably open the direct with a character trailer and likely end the Direct with something)

This aligns with Sakurai's comments as that would only be 3-5 characters revealed in a span of 2 months, as opposed to 6 like August-September had.

 

[Kuon]

i think i misunderstood the list these are 5 dlc characters that could be in

1. cloud has the most iconic villain left to add to this game. cloud inclusion opens the door to him being in. sepiroth theme alone is more known than some characters that are in the game or that people want in the game. Sepithorth is also the only character they can reasonably add that would draw a reaction level that matches what cloud was.

2. rex or elma: xenoblade is here sakurai like it and it has a growing fanbase. while i think elma has better moveset potential, rex has recency on his side.

3. springman is new he is from a game that fits well into smash. offers unique gameplay and has a good design. pretty sure him and ribbon girl would be alt costumes of each other.

4. fjorm this character has been underrated and just isnt discussed here. fjorm is the forefront character of FE heroes. like it or not mobile is part of Nintendo now. Fjorm is popular and her game has made 300 million as of febuary 2018. she uses a spear and has a design that not even on smashboard
would someone accuse of being "sexual". plus waifu status always brings in money.

5. Laura is by far my biggest reach. its mostly something i want to personally see. i want to see laura fight smaus fight bayo and fight peach. laura is the biggest female character left that is a possible inclusion. i know some people dont want characters choosne based on gender but that gender status is part of laura history and legacy as a character. smash is and has been a celebration of videogame characters. laura is worthy of that inclusion.

That makes sense. I personally would only want Rex if you can play as Pyra (which I don't think will happen), so I'd prefer Elma over Rex. If they add Springman, I'm pretty sure they'll add Ribbongirl as an alt, because why wouldn't they? Fjorm would be awesome because I love Valkyrie-type characters, but I think a character from Three Houses makes more sense for DLC. And Laura Croft is meh to me, but I can understand why she would make sense to be in

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think it hurts it at all.

Putting an empty space right next to Ryu on the Box would give away who a character is, which is the only viable reason why they didn't showcase the side of the box with Mario on it. On the card, everyone is shown, so they'd need to manipulate Ryu's portion more to not reveal the identity of a newcomer.

Completely different scenarios. One is a 3D object with characters split between two sides, and the other is a 2D object with all characters on one side. Those different objects require different things to be done to keep the newcomers a surprise.

That seems like you're manipulating the reasoning to fit your theory but I can see where you're coming from. I remember the ESRB leak.

You're entitle to your beliefs, bud. Agree to disagree.

 

[Michele]

Not sure if anyone realized this, but there is a new theory. This time, it's this...
https://imgtc.com/i/hKRwiME.jpg

Looks like a download code to my eyes, though I could be wrong

 

[Opossum]

Wow. I gotta say man. This is some mental gymnastics to make a theory sound here.

''They only didn't show Mario's side to not reveal Ken!"
''Everyone is here, so they don't want to reveal Ken by shifting Ryu's portion more."

Like do you not hear yourself?

That's an AWFUL lot of trouble to make a theory sound. And that is why these theories are so silly.

It doesn't take a lot to understand that a box and a card would need different precautions to keep the roster a secret. One has the roster split between sides, and one has it on one side.

But people will just continue throwing hissy fits if I even just mention that this doesn't kill the Box Theory because they want to believe us getting six more characters is somehow possible, despite all logic saying otherwise.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

One thing I'm kinda worried about is that I don't know how they're going to go over online, returning modes, any remaining characters, any potential new stages, AND Spirits Mode all in one Direct that would likely be under 30 minutes.
This of course all depends on how many returning modes there are and whether or not they've actually added anything to Sm4sh's online, since they'll no doubt be reusing the "For Fun, For Glory" modes. And of course, while Sakurai did say all the characters would be revealed, he never said he'd reveal all the content in the game before it's out. He could absolutely be keeping secrets.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Not sure if anyone realized this, but there is a new theory. This time, it's this...
https://imgtc.com/i/hKRwiME.jpg

Looks like a download code to my eyes, though I could be wrong

Do we known when that download code will be released?

 

[Michele]

Do we known when that download code will be released?

It's in Japanese so I don't know, though it seemed similar to a card for download code...

I'm assuming it's an demo...

 

[Paperchampion23]

No source but I believe we confirmed it happened in August as well, hence the pattern. But did we confirm it was 10 days before the original Isabelle planned reveal (the 6th) or the official (the 13th).

That might break the pattern.

According to this reddit post, it should have been aligned with the original reveal (6th): https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9bvruj/jp_challenger_playlist_updated_4_days_ago/

And it did happen with the august one according to this thread too.

We actually may be in for a trailer next week lol.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

For those that don't believe Sakurai's statement is compatible with the final Smash direct being in October, I quote this from Source Gamings translation -

"That said, if you were thinking that we’d just be dropping a bunch of newcomer trailers all the way up until release, you’d be sorely mistaken. We may have gone a little bit overboard up until now, so we’re going to slow our pace from here on out."

This can be interpreted as we shouldn't expect trailers until release and instead we will get our final trailers this month. The slowing our pace part is, I admit, where it gets confusing. But between this, the final smash 4 Wii u direct being in October when the game released in December in Japan, Sakurai wanting to avoid leaks, and the release of the bundle on November 2nd, I predict we will have our final Smash direct by the end of October. Possibly as early as next week.

Quote me

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not sure if anyone realized this, but there is a new theory. This time, it's this...
https://imgtc.com/i/hKRwiME.jpg

Looks like a download code to my eyes, though I could be wrong

I don’t see anything that looks like a download code tho?

 

[Cosmic77]

Boxes, music, cards, and Vergebens...

I cannot stress how much I want every rumor and pattern to be buried 10 feet into the ground.

 

[Nekoo]

Wow. I gotta say man. This is some mental gymnastics to make a theory sound here.

''They only didn't show Mario's side to not reveal Ken!"
''Everyone is here, so they don't want to reveal Ken by shifting Ryu's portion more."

Like do you not hear yourself?

That's an AWFUL lot of trouble to make a theory sound. And that is why these theories are so silly.

I don't believe the box Theory at all, like, I don't think we will only get "one" newcomers after Isabelle's spot.


However the legit point that theory have is that Corrin being pushed was a ****-up by the marketing team as it "soft-confirm" Ken.

Mock-up image or not. 2 or 15 newcomer.
It was a **** up on that part and it was probably because Ken was there but they wanted to show the side with more "new Characters" and forgot that detail

 

[TCT~Phantom]

For those that don't believe Sakurai's statement is compatible with the final Smash direct being in October, I quote this from Source Gamings translation -

"That said, if you were thinking that we’d just be dropping a bunch of newcomer trailers all the way up until release, you’d be sorely mistaken. We may have gone a little bit overboard up until now, so we’re going to slow our pace from here on out."

This can be interpreted as we shouldn't expect trailers until release and instead we will get our final trailers this month. The slowing our pace part is, I admit, where it gets confusing. But between this, the final smash 4 Wii u direct being in October when the game released in December in Japan, Sakurai wanting to avoid leaks, and the release of the bundle on November 2nd, I predict we will have our final Smash direct by the end of October. Possibly as early as next week.

Quote me

Sound logic, but remember that the Wii U version came after the 3ds version. There was not as much to show. Furthermore with the blog being smaller than PotD we have more to show. Expect stuff in November.

 

[Michele]

I don’t see anything that looks like a download code tho?

It's all in Japanese so I don't/can't point it out. Sorry

 

[Deleted member]

This Smash speculation period shall go down in history as "The Time Smash Fans Went to War Over a Digitally Mocked-Up Cardboard Box".

I'm excited for the movie adaptation, but will it be as good as the book?

Meanwhile I'm sitting in the corner here waiting for my Spirits reveal and whether or not Break the Targets is back...Please Sakurai, I want fun single player stuff again. ; - ;

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

I don't believe the box theory for a whole host of reasons but even if it does pan out, we're still living in a universe where Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon Belmont are newcomers in addition to every single character ever in Smash even as a one off.

Being disappointed in that is just willful misery.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Boxes, music, cards, and Vergebens...

I cannot stress how much I want every rumor and pattern to be buried 10 feet into the ground.

I'm seriously hoping next week is another Robin/Lucina- type reveal trailer. Robin was never leaked via Gematsu or any leak at the time and it was just a pleasant surprise to get something different and shocking.


That way it could break all of the theories, lie outside of Vergeben's leaks and keep speculation exciting still for the next 2 months.


Just hoping for something thats not Ken, Incineroar, Steve or the SE Rep, that would be neat.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It doesn't take a lot to understand that a box and a card would need different precautions to keep the roster a secret. One has the roster split between sides, and one has it on one side.

But people will just continue throwing hissy fits if I even just mention that this doesn't kill the Box Theory because they want to believe us getting six more characters is somehow possible, despite all logic saying otherwise.

You know dang well I've said 3 maybe 4 more and that's that.

But you should also know that at some point the box theory isn't indestructible. It never was. And a few of you (not necessarily saying you) seem to just have set into pessimism mode with your fingers in your ears and shaking your head like a child.

''Nuh uh." You say as things that might shut it down come to light. There's a few of you who say ''I don't want it to be true." But you try everything in your might to make it true.

When it's not true. Not yet. And has a very strong likely hood of not being true.

And you know what is my biggest source of believing this now? Sakurai slowing down reveals. If he truly had front loaded so hard he only had two left?

Why not just reveal those two as fast as possible and let him be able to explain other facets of the game? You've already got down to the bottom of the barrel. Why ''slow down" at that point?

 

[Nekoo]

Just hoping for something thats not Ken, Incineroar, Steve or the SE Rep, that would be neat.

I just want to see the SE rep not being Sora/Geno/Dragon quest or other big pick and leave everyone dumbfounded as it's Crono or Neku

 

[Michele]

I don't believe the box theory for a whole host of reasons but even if it does pan out, we're still living in a universe where Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon Belmont are newcomers in addition to every single character ever in Smash even as a one off.

Being disappointed in that is just willful misery.

I know you don't believe this card thing, but what if I told you the card thing and the box theory are connected?

In the card thing there are two black box/empty space, same as the box.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm wondering if the box could also be using symmetry, and Corrin was just bumped over because they wanted to get the newcomers in there, but didn't want to make their pattern with how characters are grouped look messed up by starting with a character that's not in the order (plus the 2-blank symmetry wouldn't work otherwise).

Prediction: the next direct will open with Incineroar. Ken will be shown when Sakurai get's to echoes. He'll go over returning modes and Spirits mode, maybe some other stuff. The direct will end with either a Steve reveal or a Geno reveal.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Where did this new card even come from? Is it trust worthy?

 

[Deleted member]

You know dang well I've said 3 maybe 4 more and that's that.

But you should also know that at some point the box theory isn't indestructible. It never was. And a few of you (not necessarily saying you) seem to just have set into pessimism mode with your fingers in your ears and shaking your head like a child.

''Nuh uh." You say as things that might shut it down come to light. There's a few of you who say ''I don't want it to be true." But you try everything in your might to make it true.

When it's not true. Not yet. And has a very strong likely hood of not being true.

And you know what is my biggest source of believing this now? Sakurai slowing down reveals. If he truly had front loaded so hard he only had two left?

Why not just reveal those two as fast as possible and let him be able to explain other facets of the game? You've already got down to the bottom of the barrel. Why ''slow down" at that point?

Especially when all it takes to kill the box is an extra Echo with Ken. I'm not saying Box Theory is wrong, but I'm not putting all my chips on it either. It can go pretty much either way at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

Crono

Getting Trunks before Goku would be a sin.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think we're getting more than 2 characters because DLC is most likely happening.

2 more characters in the base roster is something I can get behind at this point.

I'm already satisfied with the roster as is, so it's not much of a big deal for me who gets in the game at this point.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I don't believe the box theory for a whole host of reasons but even if it does pan out, we're still living in a universe where Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon Belmont are newcomers in addition to every single character ever in Smash even as a one off.

Being disappointed in that is just willful misery.

People have an innate need to get angry and depressed over things. It's human nature. We are a destructive species more than anything.

 

[Fane]

Two reveals left with one being an Echo is just not likely tbh.

Sakurai did say they went overboard from E3 > Isabelle with reveals, so ~4-5 is honestly all I see being left. 2? Not too likely imo.

 

[Pakky]

very dank check out 3:15,

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I just want to see the SE rep not being Sora/Geno/Dragon quest or other big pick and leave everyone dumbfounded as it's Crono or Neku

Or Lara Croft...

 

[Opossum]

You know dang well I've said 3 maybe 4 more and that's that.

But you should also know that at some point the box theory isn't indestructible. It never was. And a few of you (not necessarily saying you) seem to just have set into pessimism mode with your fingers in your ears and shaking your head like a child.

''Nuh uh." You say as things that might shut it down come to light. There's a few of you who say ''I don't want it to be true." But you try everything in your might to make it true.

When it's not true. Not yet. And has a very strong likely hood of not being true.

And you know what is my biggest source of believing this now? Sakurai slowing down reveals. If he truly had front loaded so hard he only had two left?

Why not just reveal those two as fast as possible and let him be able to explain other facets of the game? You've already got down to the bottom of the barrel. Why ''slow down" at that point?

I'm not talking about you specifically, but people in general. And I wouldn't call it pessimism. Instead I view it as realism. There's a big difference there; pessimism implies disappointment, while Ultimate has already exceeded all expectations.

To me it seems more like anti-box people are reaching incredibly hard in their attempts to discredit the box. All things, meanwhile, are pointing to this being the timeline we're looking at:

- Nothing happens in October, making it the sequel to the smash-hit month, July.
- Smash Direct in Mid-November
- Smash Direct reveals Ken and Incineroar in a trailer cheekily titled "Pokémon Masters."
- Spirits Mode, Online Modes, Trophies, and other Single-Player modes are detailed in full. Amiibo support further detailed if the amiibo unlocks thing is real.
- First look at the first DLC character, which is Vergeben's Square Enix character, a la Fifty Facts Mewtwo.

If anything happens that deviates from that plan, I will be incredibly surprised.

 

[osby]

Or Lara Croft...

It'd hype but knowing Smash fandom, they'll need an explanation about Lara Croft being a genuinely iconic character and not here to steal Geno's spot for promoting a new Tomb Raider game.

 

[Deleted member]

The last Smash Direct is going to mirror the original one, starting with a "I'm still alive" joke(hint at Chell the first DLC character) and ending with a Pokemon reveal.