Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

He did the exact same thing with Cloud.

I know Cloud is the face of Square Enix and I'm not comparing him to Sora but in order to "there are cheaper options" being a legit argument, Sora needs to be really expensive to get the rights off.

Or maybe he'll put one of them because reasons completely unrelated to monetary issues.

I am confused right now. Are you saying Sora is more or less expensive than Cloud?

 

[Knight Dude]

See I'm just not entirely convinced Sakurai would shell out the money required for Sora when he could just...go for Geno.
But I'm sure I sound like a total moron.

Not exactly. Given this game is all about fanservice. I mean Ridley's one thing, people average Joes' might know him if they know Metroid, at least as that bad guy from Metroid. But K.Rool was literally out the game for nearly 10 years or so after some baseball title. Dark Samus is in a similar boat, but people like evil counterparts.

Geno's a bit more of a stretch, since he's not as tied to the core of the series like Ridley or K.Rool or even Dark Samus, but he's someone many people requested at least.

I still think as neutrally as I can, Sora would make the most sense from a marketing standpoint.

 

[Luigi The President]

Not exactly. Given this game is all about fanservice. I mean Ridley's one thing, people average Joes' might know him if they know Metroid, at least as that bad guy from Metroid. But K.Rool was literally out the game for nearly 10 years or so after some baseball title. Dark Samus is in a similar boat, but people like evil counterparts.

Geno's a bit more of a stretch, since he's not as tied to the core of the series like Ridley or K.Rool or even Dark Samus, but he's someone many people requested at least.

I still think as neutrally as I can, Sora would make the most sense from a marketing standpoint.

See as much as the "3 kings of Smash" don't exist...Geno's a king of smash. Has been for over a decade. He's been a pretty consistent figure since 2008 and I'm sure before.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai went for him as it'd be one of the greatest fanservice bits of all.

Sora would make more sense for marketing, but I do think Geno would make more sense for fanservice with the audience Ultimate's aiming for.

 

[osby]

I am confused right now. Are you saying Sora is more or less expensive than Cloud?

I'm saying we don't know.

If he's cheaper, he might be a better option than other SE characters. If he's more expensive, still there might be chance, since Ultimate seems like a very big-budget project.

 

[Nekoo]

But money would still be a requirement, no?

Not always. Actually for Crossover that's pretty rare and things mostly solves out with "gentleman" deals. Like each other lending their stuff in Mobile games. Or just publicity, getting new customers etc.
Ofc Money is still here, but it's always first a deal then money-

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm saying we don't know.

If he's cheaper, he might be a better option than other SE characters. If he's more expensive, still there might be chance, since Ultimate seems like a very big-budget project.

I mean I don't think Geno being cheaper than Sora's a real question.

 

[Nethermoosen]

See I'm just not entirely convinced Sakurai would shell out the money required for Sora when he could just...go for Geno.
But I'm sure I sound like a total moron.

“Yeah, we could give you Geno....for MONEY.”

Rick and Morty. Season 3. Episode 1. For those who don’t get the reference.

I’d be happy with most decent Square characters these days.

Sora
Squall
Terra
Geno
Vivi
Not Noctis(opinions!)
Sylvando, darling!

I just started taking a break from my 100 hour foray into Dragon Quest 11. Still not even done. What a purchase. Old school RPG fans who like Akira Toriyama’s goofy art should seriously consider playing that game.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I am confused right now. Are you saying Sora is more or less expensive than Cloud?

I'm saying we don't know.

If he's cheaper, he might be a better option than other SE characters. If he's more expensive, still there might be chance, since Ultimate seems like a very big-budget project.

But isn't Sora also kinda owned by Disney as well? That might make it more difficult than a standard SE character.

 

[T3Z3R1]

I've already picked this a part to death. We have one source that as far as I know hasn't been corroborated--we don't have first-hand source that Justin said it (e.g., video clip, news article). Rumor does not mean not true, as is common parlance, it simply means the truth has not been corroborated. I consider HMK a trustworthy source, but he's the only source. As far as I know, no other media outlets have picked up on it.

But it doesn't matter--we agree on the substance--I consider the source trustworthy enough to consider it as being truthful. It's semantics at this point.

>we don't have first-hand source on Justin said it.

Literally, even HMK asked him at Kingdom Hearts 3 Premier about it and he DID said this, and HMK confirmed this in said video.

 

[MainJPW]

I doubt Sega would care about him being an echo since in most of their games he plays the same as Sonic and SA2's is about Shadow being mistaken for Sonic.

Shadow being mistaken for Sonic is irrelevant since it’s an old plot point that was written when Shadow was Sonic with a scar and had a different name. It’s not something that gets brought up ever again.

And plenty of Sonic characters play more or less the same for the most part.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Last day of September folks! Tomorrow October begins. Another month of debate whether we'll get something or not.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Last day of September folks! Tomorrow October begins. Another month of debate whether we'll get something or not.

I was about to question the October part...then I remembered I’m tired and the world has different time zones

 

[osby]

See as much as the "3 kings of Smash" don't exist...Geno's a king of smash. Has been for over a decade. He's been a pretty consistent figure since 2008 and I'm sure before.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai went for him as it'd be one of the greatest fanservice bits of all.

Sora would make more sense for marketing, but I do think Geno would make more sense for fanservice with the audience Ultimate's aiming for.

Eh, we got Inkling, Chrom and Isabelle so we know Ultimate is not just pandering to pre-Brawl speculation era audience.

Then again, just about any new character after this point will get "marketing, not fanservice" accusations, so I don't know how they'll balance things out.

 

[Nekoo]

I mean I don't think Geno being cheaper than Sora's a real question.

Watch it as Square ****ed up as always and Geno's license need every team member of the original SMRPG to sign the deal a wednesday at 12AM with a red blue green pencils while playing the Mario Jingle on a flute.

That's totally a Square things to do.

 

[Luigi The President]

Eh, we got Inkling, Chrom and Isabelle so we know Ultimate is not just pandering to pre-Brawl speculation era audience.

Then again, just about any new character after this point will get "marketing, not fanservice" accusations, so I don't know how they'll balance things out.

Not really my point. Geno has been a constant presence since Brawl, and has remained in the scene during Brawl, during 4 and now during Ultimate. His presence is far more than a huge amount of unconfirmed characters.

 

[amazonevan19]

guy with mic / some other guy nearby idk: "Now that Minecraft is on the Nintendo Switch, do you think Steve will be in Smash Brothers?"

*laughter*

Woman off-screen (I assume a Mojang employee): "Uh...so, I will say, that, um, we actually don't have any news on that, um, but! we do know that there is some folks in the community who have actually on the feedback site, they put a request for it, so you should go and upvote it, so that we can go to our friends over at Nintendo and say 'Hey look! The community will think that's what's pretty cool!' So, just upvote it on the feedback site we'll see what happens! We don't have any news though."

same guy: "Thank you"

same woman: "Thank you!"

That sounds super noncommittal to me, like they don't know anything/haven't been approached by Sakurai. Most of the time if there is something going on underneath the surface, companies will just issue a bland "no comment on that" sort of statement, or go on and on about their partnership/relationship with Nintendo etc. As a friend of mine said, the fact that they asked people to go upvote a post means they probably genuinely don't know and if they don't know at this point it's likely it won't happen.

Many times when devs are asked that question and their character is NOT in smash, they say "yeah go make some noise, encourage nintendo to do it and maybe something will happen!"

But idk, that's how I read it. For all I know Steve could be announced tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, Sakurai and Disney would nev--

View attachment 167296

On behalf of having owned a copy of this game before, this game was ****ing fire, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[Louisacommie]

Kingdom hearts has Disney involved but I don't think their much of a hurdle

A lot if the older final fantasies 7 included have convoluted rights though not to the extend of dragon quest

Kingdom hearts being newer, talk to square, nomura, and Disney you should be fine

Geno sucks

If we can't get mainline Zelda one offs what makes geno special

 

[Luigi The President]

London hearts has Disney involved but I don't think their much of a hurdle

A lot if the older final fantasies 7 included have coulter rights though not to the extend of fire emblem

Kingdom hearts being newer, talk to square, nomura, and Disney you should be fine

Geno sucks

If we can't get mainline Zelda 9ne offs what makes geno special

What does this mean

 

[Louisacommie]

What does this mean

I slightly misspelled kingdom and auto correct is dumb and went for very far off words
It's 250pm so my proof reading skills are bad

 

[Luigi The President]

I slightly misspelled kingdom and auto correct is dumb and went for very far off words
It's 250pm so my proof reading skills are bad

Well here's the thing talking to Square, Nomura, AND Disney is a bit harder than you make it out to be

Also I don't know what you mean by Zelda one offs or why it's relevant to Geno

 

[Deleted member]

Kingdom hearts has Disney involved but I don't think their much of a hurdle

A lot if the older final fantasies 7 included have convoluted rights though not to the extend of dragon quest

Kingdom hearts being newer, talk to square, nomura, and Disney you should be fine

Geno sucks

If we can't get mainline Zelda one offs what makes geno special

"What makes Geno special".

Well...

 

[Louisacommie]

Well here's the thing talking to Square, Nomura, AND Disney is a bit harder than you make it out to be

Also I don't know what you mean by Zelda one offs or why it's relevant to Geno

Geno is a mario spinoff one off

 

[Luigi The President]

Geno is a mario spinoff one off

Yeah.

What makes him so special is the fans commitment to him and how they've singlehandedly kept him alive imo.

I love him but I won't really try to change your own feelings on him.

"What makes Geno special".

Well...

View attachment 167316

Tots, thought of Geno Mii being a consolation prize for fans and he won't be in Ultimate just hit me, please tell me why it's not true thanks

 

[PlasmaDam]

Doesn't Square own Sora Just have Sora Moveset not a lot things that are aren't Disney related and make his final smash his final form or something

 

[TheAJJohnson]

I want to point out something regarding Vergeben/Hitagi and their credible leaks.

The way I understand it, the aforementioned leakers are not the ones with access to the information being leaked. They are merely mouthpieces. This is clearly seen when looking at the 7th Gen Pokemon rep and its identity. IIRC (and I'm going to paraphrase here), Vergeben said that he knew it wasn't certain pokes, but only recently revealed that it was Incineroar after getting enough confirmation from his sources.

Why do I bring this up? Because sometimes, even though there is a lot of true and credible info coming from a certain source, the reality is that it's not just one source: it's multiple. And since there are multiple people feeding Verge and Hitagi their info, it's quite possible that some of the sources, and by association the info are wrong. I'm not saying that they aren't credible and that the info isn't credible. I'm saying that it's possible that SOME of the info were being told could be incorrect.

Am example to further illustrate my point. IIRC, when Pokemon SuMo Alolan forms were leaked, we got news that (forgive me if I get one or two wrong) Ninetales, Golem, Sandslash, and Arcanine would all be getting new forms. After the leaker got told he/she was full of crap, lo and behold we got Alolan forms of Golem, Sandslash, and Ninetales. So people, after now trusting the leak, sat and waited for the news of Arcanine to come. Here we are, far past the release of the game and Alolan Arcanine still does not exist.

So what are my personal thoughts on these leaks? I think Ken and Steve are definitely in. I also think we'll get another echo in the form of Shadow (Ken by himself as the last echo seems really weird to me). I can actually see the SE rep being the last character (which has got to be Geno, only because given Sakurai and Geno's history, I can't reasonably see Sora or anyone else being that character). I've personally always been iffy about a Pokemon making it into the base roster. I know we've always had one added and all the jazz, but I just feel it goes against the theme (if you will) of this game. This game is about bringing in fan favorites. If you look at consolidated polls (as they are one of our few more concrete sources of data), the first Pokemon rep to show up was after spot 40, and it was Pichu IIRC.

Incineroar being one of the first DLC makes more sense to me. SuMo was released after the roster was probably finalized, so I could see Sakurai adding him to the game once the Pokemon Company felt more confident in its popularity instead of hoping another Greninja situation would play out well for them. This way, Incineroar could offered as free or criteria-locked DLC and would viewed as a bonus character rather than a "it took X character's spot" kind of deal.

Edit: spelling. (It's late where I'm at, so forgive me if you find anymore.)

 

[osby]

Kingdom hearts has Disney involved but I don't think their much of a hurdle

A lot if the older final fantasies 7 included have convoluted rights though not to the extend of dragon quest

Kingdom hearts being newer, talk to square, nomura, and Disney you should be fine

Geno sucks

If we can't get mainline Zelda one offs what makes geno special

Geno was a playable character. I don't know much Zelda one-offs who was also playable characters in their game, unless if you count Midna.

 

[Deleted member]

Tots, thought of Geno Mii being a consolation prize for fans and he won't be in Ultimate just hit me, please tell me why it's not true thanks

It's all about that history, boss. I mean, look at it this way. Personal wants about Sora or any other Square characters aside, wouldn't it feel like a slap in the face that the whole "2nd Square rep" WASN'T Geno, given his history? And we wouldn't even be talking about this if Smash Ultimate wasn't the Smash that they've listened to the fans the most.

Super Mario RPG has been re-released on Virtual Console on the Wii and Wii U, the game's secondary boss theme, "Fight Against an Armed Boss", was one of the biggest memes ever in Japan in the 2010s, and there's of course, the Smash hype. Yes, Sora would be hype, Dragon Quest would make a surprise - but Smash Ultimate is about the fans more than ever.

We're going to get Geno. If we can't get closure for the Paper Mario series, we can at least get closure on Mario RPGs in general. If there's a future for Xenoblade Chronicles 3, there's SURE AS **** a future for the Super Mario RPG IP.

 

[Fenriraga]

Rumors or otherwise, I'm still going in hard on Geno. There's just too much riding behind him for me to even try and tell myself he might not make it. I don't want to get my hopes up, but I've wanted him for so, SO long, and the stars are literally aligned for him this time.

And if Geno somehow doesn't make it, well...

I'll have this on repeat for awhile.

(I really like to think Yoko remixing Mario RPG music in her best of soundtrack is a sign we can at LEAST get a Mario RPG song in Ultimate. She contributes it to being one of the turning points for her career.)

Tots, thought of Geno Mii being a consolation prize for fans and he won't be in Ultimate just hit me, please tell me why it's not true thanks

Because K. Rool, Isabelle and Inkling Mii costumes exist.

 

[NextChannelGames]

I want to point out something regarding Vergeben/Hitagi and their credible leaks.

The way I understand it, the aforementioned leakers are not the ones with access to the information being leaked. They are merely mouthpieces. This is clearly seen when looking at the 7th Gen Pokemon rep and its identity. IIRC (and I'm going to paraphrase here), Vergeben said that he knew it wasn't certain pokes, but only recently revealed that it was Incineroar after getting enough confirmation from his sources.

Why do I bring this up? Because sometimes, even though there is a lot of true and credible info coming from a certain source, the reality is that it's not just one source: it's multiple. And since there are multiple people feeding Verge and Hitagi their info, it's quite possible that some of the sources, and by association the info are wrong. I'm not saying that they aren't credible and that the info isn't credible. I'm saying that it's possible that SOME of the info were being told could be incorrect.

Am example to further illustrate my point. IIRC, when Pokemon SuMo Alolan forms were leaked, we got news that (forgive me if I get one or two wrong) Ninetales, Golem, Sandslash, and Arcanine would all be getting new forms. After the leaker got told he/she was full of crap, lo and behold we got Alolan forms of Golem, Sandslash, and Ninetales. So people, after now trusting the leak, sat and waited for the news of Arcanine to come. Here we are, far past the release of the game and Alolan Arcanine still does not exist.

So what are my personal thoughts on these leaks? I think Ken and Steve are definitely in. I also think we'll get another echo in the form of Shadow (Ken by himself as the last echo seems really weird to me). I can actually see the SE rep being the last character (which has got to be Geno, only because given Sakurai and Geno's history, I can't reasonably see Sora or anyone else being that character). I've personally always been iffy about a Pokemon making it into the base roster. I know we've always had one added and all the jazz, but I just feel it goes against the theme (if you will) of this game. This game is about bringing in fan favorites. If you look at consolidated polls (as they are one of our few more concrete sources of data), the first Pokemon rep to show up was after spot 40, and it was Pichu IIRC.

Incineroar being one of the first DLC makes more sense to me. SuMo was released after the roster was probably finalized, so I could see Sakurai adding him to the game once the Pokemon Company felt more confident in its popularity instead of hoping another Greninja situation would play out well for them. This way, Incineroar could offered as free or criteria-locked DLC and would viewed as a bonus character rather than a "it took X character's spot" kind of deal.

Edit: spelling. (It's late where I'm at, so forgive me if you find anymore.)

I totally agree with your comment. It might end up being some of these characters could just be for DLC.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I want to point out something regarding Vergeben/Hitagi and their credible leaks.

The way I understand it, the aforementioned leakers are not the ones with access to the information being leaked. They are merely mouthpieces. This is clearly seen when looking at the 7th Gen Pokemon rep and its identity. IIRC (and I'm going to paraphrase here), Vergeben said that he knew it wasn't certain pokes, but only recently revealed that it was Incineroar after getting enough confirmation from his sources.

Why do I bring this up? Because sometimes, even though there is a lot of true and credible info coming from a certain source, the reality is that it's not just one source: it's multiple. And since there are multiple people feeding Verge and Hitagi their info, it's quite possible that some of the sources, and by association the info are wrong. I'm not saying that they aren't credible and that the info isn't credible. I'm saying that it's possible that SOME of the info were being told could be incorrect.

Am example to further illustrate my point. IIRC, when Pokemon SuMo Alolan forms were leaked, we got news that (forgive me if I get one or two wrong) Ninetales, Golem, Sandslash, and Arcanine would all be getting new forms. After the leaker got told he/she was full of crap, lo and behold we got Alolan forms of Golem, Sandslash, and Ninetales. So people, after now trusting the leak, sat and waited for the news of Arcanine to come. Here we are, far past the release of the game and Alolan Arcanine still does not exist.

So what are my personal thoughts on these leaks? I think Ken and Steve are definitely in. I also think we'll get another echo in the form of Shadow (Ken by himself as the last echo seems really weird to me). I can actually see the SE rep being the last character (which has got to be Geno, only because given Sakurai and Geno's history, I can't reasonably see Sora or anyone else being that character). I've personally always been iffy about a Pokemon making it into the base roster. I know we've always had one added and all the jazz, but I just feel it goes against the theme (if you will) of this game. This game is about bringing in fan favorites. If you look at consolidated polls (as they are one of our few more concrete sources of data), the first Pokemon rep to show up was after spot 40, and it was Pichu IIRC.

Incineroar being one of the first DLC makes more sense to me. SuMo was released after the roster was probably finalized, so I could see Sakurai adding him to the game once the Pokemon Company felt more confident in its popularity instead of hoping another Greninja situation would play out well for them. This way, Incineroar could offered as free or criteria-locked DLC and would viewed as a bonus character rather than a "it took X character's spot" kind of deal.

Edit: spelling. (It's late where I'm at, so forgive me if you find anymore.)

Thing is the reason Vergeben (can't comment on the other) is credible isn't just because he has so far correct info (though its like 90% that) but also because he makes it clear he doesn't tell us everything he hears. He is well aware some of his sources can be wrong, that even legit info hasn't always been 100 percent accurate (Gematsu comes to mind.) So he's very picky about what he tells us. Because of this, I feel Vergeben only tells us stuff he is absolutely confident about, and for him to be confident it means it has to come from someone reliable.

With that in mind I'm pretty sure Ken is in, I think everyone is. Steve not so much. Verg himself leaned more on the side of stage or at when talking about Minecraft, and since then I don't think he's actually even brought up the possibility of Steve. There's simply not enough evidence for me to believe he's in yet.

As for Incineroar being the DLC, I mean it's not impossible. I just think Incineroar isn't the DLC kind of character. He isn't going to break the internet upon reveal. He isn't Mewtwo, Cloud, Ryu, Roy, Lucas, or Bayo. Now a Square Enix character, that is something which would greatly entice people to throw money at the screen. It probably will be another Greninja situation. I really doubt anyone at Nintendo thinks about roster selection the way Smashers do. The "it took x character's spot" attitude isn't something that crosses their mind (perhaps beyond Sakurai since he's had to deal with us for so long.) They care about money. The bottom line is way, way, WAY more people are going to buy Geno or Sora or Chrono or whoever the SE rep would be than would buy Incineroar.

 

[Noipoi]

Incineroar won't be dlc, no one would pay for him. I mean I would but no one else would.

If for some reason Incineroar isn't in the base roster we're getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as dlc instead. Calling it now.

 

[Pakky]

Incineroar won't be dlc, no one would pay for him. I mean I would but no one else would.

If for some reason Incineroar isn't in the base roster we're getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as dlc instead. Calling it now.

I would pay for him...

Though no yeah we're getting him, and probably Gen 8 for DLC.

Maybe if it's another cool grass guy he'll get promoted by the Pokemon Company.

 

[Jetsurge]

Sure, but I wouldn't be suprised if they made it an issue, since Sonic's playstyle in Smash mostly taken from classic games, where there is no Shadow.

Same can be applied to other guest fighters.

The spindash is in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 so it's fine if Shadow has it. The spring which is the only move that needs to be changed will probably be replaced with chaos control borrowed from Mewtwo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

, no one would pay for him

People will buy literally every Smash character.

Don't even kid yourself.

 

[Jetsurge]

People will buy literally every Smash character.

Don't even kid yourself.

This is true people brought Corrin, even I did.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is true people brought Corrin, even I did.

Yup. Anyone being in Smash is enough for a lot of people to jump on board.

Plus ya know, Corrin and Incineroar are still fairly popular characters in general.

 

[Jetsurge]

Rumors or otherwise, I'm still going in hard on Geno. There's just too much riding behind him for me to even try and tell myself he might not make it. I don't want to get my hopes up, but I've wanted him for so, SO long, and the stars are literally aligned for him this time.

And if Geno somehow doesn't make it, well...

I'll have this on repeat for awhile.

(I really like to think Yoko remixing Mario RPG music in her best of soundtrack is a sign we can at LEAST get a Mario RPG song in Ultimate. She contributes it to being one of the turning points for her career.)



Because K. Rool, Isabelle and Inkling Mii costumes exist.

These days I see the mii costumes for popular characters as a small prize for fans to have while they wait for their character in Ultimate and this is why I don't think Isaac is in.

 

[Noipoi]

These days I see the mii costumes for popular characters as a small prize for fans to have while they wait for their character in Ultimate and this is why I don't think Isaac is in.

Yup! Just like Ashley!

...

sobs

 

[Arcanir]

Honestly, the hate characters get rarely (if ever) impacts how well a character does in sales whether for the base game or DLC. Along with Corrin, Bayonetta got a good amount of hate back in the day for not being the fan favorite character people expected, but Nintendo still stated that DLC sales for the game were excellent nonetheless. Incineroar at worst would be another Lucario, a character that gets a lot of vocal hatred from the Smash fanbase for one reason or another, but it doesn't change the fact that it still has a strong fanbase in its home series that would be excited to play as him and would gladly buy him if given the chance.