Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

Uh... Smash 64 is Fun and all, But pretty sure the Franchise has Improved as it has gone on....

 

[drag0nscythe]

Best is always opinion, but

Suoet mario 64 is great. Best only beaten by Sunshine.
Goemon's 2 games are the best in the series.
Mario party 2 is the best currently
Pilot wings 64
Starfox 64

But 64 is not always the best.
Castlevania 64 was not good.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Best is always opinion, but

Suoet mario 64 is great. Best only beaten by Sunshine.
Goemon's 2 games are the best in the series.
Mario party 2 is the best currently
Pilot wings 64
Starfox 64

But 64 is not always the best.
Castlevania 64 was not good.

Legacy of Darkness was better anyways (and renders 64 moot).

Also, both Banjo games on it are the peak of the franchise, of course.

 

[Deleted member]

Best Mario game is World because it has the ****ing cape and no other game even tries to have a power up so fun. Best 3D Mario game is 3D World sue me. Mario 64 can suck my **** unless it's the DS version which is good. Blocky Mario is still pure tho.
OoT sucks as its own thing, doesn't matter what impact and influence it had, it aged terribly and I'll die on this hill. Best Zelda game is BotW and anyone who says otherwise needs to actually play it. As far as traditional Zelda games go, it's Link's Awakening easily.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Legacy of Darkness was better anyways (and renders 64 moot).

Also, both Banjo games on it are the peak of the franchise, of course.

Confession: I think Nuts & Bolts Is better than Kazooie and Tooie
Fight me

 

[Moydow]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

Yeah, Fire Emblem 64 is the best one-- wait a second...
though Path of Radiance is functionally just an upscaled N64 game and likely borrows a lot from the cancelled FE N64 game, so I guess it's not too far off

 

[Cosmic77]

Best Zelda game is easily BotW. OoT was great, but I feel like the fanbase doesn't want it to lose its title of being "the ultimate Zelda game" because it never had any true competition until BotW.

As for best 3D Mario, that's a tough one. I can't choose between Galaxy and Odyssey. Galaxy has the superior soundtrack and the deeper story, but the levels had little to no exploration. Odyssey wasn't very difficult and felt a lot shorter, but I feel like I had more fun playing it than I did with Galaxy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Huh, it’s 8 AM EST and STILL no blog update...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Huh, it’s 8 AM EST and STILL no blog update...

I thought the blog update was the moon...

 

[Michele]

Huh, it’s 8 AM EST and STILL no blog update...

Now that you mention it...

It has been 4 days without a update. Is there a special surprise? 3 days happened and it is not out of place, but 4 is strange...

Are we going to see something...?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I thought the blog update was the moon...

Yup, just a tweet because it's a holiday in Japan.

I think it's interesting they haven't brought up Skull Kid, and continued not to with the Moon tweet. Also I'm like 99% sure that one rumor about skull kid appearing, summoning the moon, and dissapearing is wrong because they defintely would have shown a pic of him with it.

Doesn't really mean much, but still intresting how absent he is.

 

[Michele]

Yup, just a tweet because it's a holiday in Japan.

Are you referring to this? https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1044036194198319106

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Confession: I think Nuts & Bolts Is better than Kazooie and Tooie
Fight me

Excuse me what the ****

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Are you referring to this? https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1044036194198319106

Yup! Love the picture with Ganondorf XD

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Best Mario game is World because it has the ****ing cape and no other game even tries to have a power up so fun. Best 3D Mario game is 3D World sue me. Mario 64 can suck my **** unless it's the DS version which is good. Blocky Mario is still pure tho.
OoT sucks as its own thing, doesn't matter what impact and influence it had, it aged terribly and I'll die on this hill. Best Zelda game is BotW and anyone who says otherwise needs to actually play it. As far as traditional Zelda games go, it's Link's Awakening easily.

I've played BotW and I don't agree with you.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Best Zelda game is BotW and anyone who says otherwise needs to actually play it.

Well, assuming BotW's Metacritic Score is anything to go by, I wouldn't be Surprised

Excuse me what the ****

Yup You heard it right...Banjo Kazooie was always a pain for me because of the Collectibles (I'll stick with Mario 64 and Galaxy for my 3D platforming Fix), and I prefer the Vehicle aspects of N&B
I also like the N&B Designs of the Characters Better Than The originals (they have a lot more personality).

 

[Deleted member]

I've played BotW and I don't agree with you.

Play it again and again until you stop being wrong.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yup, just a tweet because it's a holiday in Japan.

I think it's interesting they haven't brought up Skull Kid, and continued not to with the Moon tweet. Also I'm like 99% sure that one rumor about skull kid appearing, summoning the moon, and dissapearing is wrong because they defintely would have shown a pic of him with it.

Doesn't really mean much, but still intresting how absent he is.

Even though his absence is interesting, there's no guarantee there's a payoff for Skull Kid at the end. I speak from experience after believing Ridley's hushed presence on the road to Smash 4 meant he was playable. Instead, Sakurai teased a stage boss that took over a year to officially reveal.

Skull Kid has been one of the strangest characters in this cycle of speculation. His support thread had about five or six pages before the August Direct, then jumped up to 60+ pages over the course of a month, before finally taking a huge dip in activity once again. I feel like Skull Kid falls in line with Rex/Pyra and Decidueye, whereas he was viewed as one of the most likely characters before the people who were only interested in being right with their predictions abandoned ship.

 

[Deleted member]

There's been a poll on the French website jeuxvideo.com, aka France's GameFAQs, and the results are as follow for those interested:

Spoiler

To be noted that a total number of roughly 450 users voted in.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

There's been a poll on the French website jeuxvideo.com, aka France's GameFAQs, and the results are as follow for those interested:

Spoiler

To be noted that a total number of roughly 450 users voted in.

Yeah, None of the top 5 Are going to happen in the base...

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Meh.

It was a good experience, and I acknowledge the innovation, but it also was just a bit brandead at times and a few shrines require materials that are tedious to retrieve when the map is huge as hell, like Fire Arroes I couldn't for the life of me come across.

It's challenging only really towards the beginning, and once you start racking up the powers after a Divine Beast or acquire Ancient Arrows, well, everything is suddenly a cakewalk.

Story was minimal, and I get what they were going for but still. Voice Acting was alright, albeit a bit weird.

There's tons of tedious stuff to do that good for returning to the game for when you're bored and just wanna explore around, but that's really it. After the Shrines and missions, there's really no meed to keep playing and I have no reason to when I also have to preserve my inventory.

The DBs were all disappointing and barely count as dungeons, as well as all of them looking the same and playing the same.

Sorry if I don't think it's as enjoyable as othets

 

[Deleted member]

There's been a poll on the French website jeuxvideo.com, aka France's GameFAQs, and the results are as follow for those interested:

Spoiler

To be noted that a total number of roughly 450 users voted in.

It's fake, Vlad is already a boss in Ultimate

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Well, assuming BotW's Metacritic Score is anything to go by, I wouldn't be Surprised

Just checked it, and it's not like Metacritic is the end all, but Ocarina of Time has a higher score (by two points) and I'm honestly shocked. I don't know...video games are hard to judge generationally. Like any other art form, music, movies, books, can be compared across centuries, with some context.

But can you really compare OoT to BotW? The N64 OoT plays like garbage now (fight me) and even though it got a remaster, it's still a verrrrrry dated game. It's hard to compare them imo, like I think BotW is way superior but no game like that could come out in the 90s so how could I even compare. Hell I don't even compare it to Wind Waker, my favorite Zelda, because I believe if WW was made now it would be closer in design to BotW (where's my WW sequel Nintendo!).

To relate this to Smash, and I know this is very much an oppinion, but I feel the same way about the series and once Ultimate comes out I can't imagine going back to any other game. I mean how can you even compare a 70+ roster with 100+ stages to a Nintendo 64 game?! It just isn't a fair comparison.

Story was minimal, and I get what they were going for but still. Voice Acting was alright, albeit a bit weird.

Just have to point this out but Zelda stories have always been minimal. They aren't deep at all. So thats not specific to BotW.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So, moving the focus to a more...sensible topic, how would you rank the third party characters based on how much you like them in their own series?
My ranking:
#1
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.
#7.
#8.
#9.

First off never move away from the glorious Bowsette...but secondly

1. (Thanks to the introduction of him through Brawl and the Olympics, Sonic became my favorite 3rd party series)
2. / (everyone must love Pac-Man and Street Fighter is fun...even though I suck at it...now back to being a family man)
3. (Love the 2 games from her series)
4. (Hard *** games, but bad***music and coolness)
5. (Introduced to in Brawl as well, and find his series to be extremely well done...but I’m impatient as hell so the long *** cutscenes and stealth for him isn’t gonna work for me. Still appreciate the series of course, especially Snake with an ***)
6. / (Never played Castlevania yet I’ve seen what it’s like...music sexy also)
7. (Don’t care for Final Fantasy like that)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So, moving the focus to a more...sensible topic, how would you rank the third party characters based on how much you like them in their own series?
My ranking:
#1
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.
#7.
#8.
#9.

#1 Duh
#2 I love Mega Man. He's cool.
#3 He's an icon. How can you not love him?
#4 Ryu's great man, Nothing wrong with him
#5 Never Played his Game. Though I really want to.
#6He's cool, but no intent on playing his games
#7 Never played his game. Love the He Man Look though.
#8 Never played his game, Meh
#9 I have no intent on playing her games. Smash has made me hate her though

 

[Deleted member]

Every time Breath of the Wild is abbreviated as BotW I just think of

 

[Pakky]

So, moving the focus to a more...sensible topic, how would you rank the third party characters based on how much you like them in their own series?
My ranking:
#1
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.
#7.
#8.
#9.

#1- Forever my girl
#2- Love Street Fighter
#3- Played 9 back in the day on the 360, pretty good!
#4- Mania is good but they need to pull it together, classic guys are great modern guys are a mixed bag,
#5- Fun time as always

///- Never played though I intend to. Though if the remake of is littered with PC nonsense I'm not touching it. 12 was alright but he's not from that.

Castlevania collection is real so I hope it comes to Switch.

Something tells me Phantom Pain is coming to the Switch.

 

[Sharkarat]

Kirby 64 is a mixed bag, can't call my favorite even tho it was the 1st or 2nd one i played
+ It has the best atmosphere in the entire franchise. just the way the enviroment exist completely in the backgound while being merged seamlessly to the foreground. It's only some stages in Robobot that are able to hit this.
+ The ability combinations is a really fun concept
- The controls/movement sucks. it's really slow, it's clunky. No momentum, limited amount of jumps.
- Many abilities are bad or just not fun to use. Burning is slow, cutter prevents flying. Even the better ones are really hurt by the controls not being great. And many hurts your mobility and/or are really punishing.
All in all I think it looks better than it plays.

 

[Pakky]

Kirby 64 is a mixed bag, can't call my favorite even tho it was the 1st or 2nd one i played
+ It has the best atmosphere in the entire franchise. just the way the enviroment exist completely in the backgound while being merged seamlessly to the foreground. It's only some stages in Robobot that are able to hit this.
+ The ability combinations is a really fun concept
- The controls/movement sucks. it's really slow, it's clunky. No momentum, limited amount of jumps.
- Many abilities are bad or just not fun to use. Burning is slow, cutter prevents flying. Even the better ones are really hurt by the controls not being great. And many hurts your mobility and/or are really punishing.
All in all I think it looks better than it plays.

That's why Star Allies is probably the most solid one so far.

Its like Super Star ultra, but in 3D and with all the warriors.
Lowkey I want 02 as a ally...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

#1- Forever my girl.

Jeanne isn’t gonna approve of that (Bayo is her girl)

 

[Pakky]

Jeanne isn’t gonna approve of that (Bayo is her girl)

But I like Jeanne too. I think she's going to be an echo, she was one of the two trophies in 4 from Bayo that weren't Bayo.

 

[osby]

But I like Jeanne too. I think she's going to be an echo, she was one of the two trophies in 4 from Bayo that weren't Bayo.

I hope. Bayonetta needs a friend that can share her salty popcorn.

 

[Pakky]

I hope. Bayonetta needs a friend that can share her salty popcorn.

Honestly I'm hoping she has two.

Something tells me we're getting the 'Nero' of the franchise in 3.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Nintendo has been doing weird controller things - I actually have an acrade-style controller for mine since the controller is so awkward. Still, the award for 'worst controller ever' goes to the Wii, since any games that needed you to actually move a character and swing instead of just flailing it around just don't work if you're left-handed.

For the Zelda games, I still love Ocarina. The dungeons are great, the story is great, and it even looks amazing - I've seen modern games that don't even hold up to 20-year-old graphics. Majora's Mask was also incredible, but it had the problem of following up Ocarina and even ported most assets. Still, the differences they did have - the time limit and the creepiness factor - really made it feel good as well.

I'm a huge fan of Twilight Princess. Each game has given the exposition fairy more and more personality, and I loved of the game felt. I actually favor Twilight Princess over Ocarina; it's may favorite Zelda-style Zelda game. Wind Waker didn't really impress me that much. I was always biased against the artstyle (Twilight Princess's is by far my favorite) but the game doesn't hook me well. It does have incredible music though.

Breath of the Wild doesn't really feel like a Zelda game...it feels a bit like Skyrim. I'm just starting another replay of that and it is incredible, but I think it changed too many things that it's hard to even consider it at the same time as the other Zeldas. I'd prefer it without the cel-shaded style, but it's not too frustrating to mie since the draw distance is incredible - I can see Medoh from the starting area! Also, Link being right-handed is more frustrating for me than it should be (we lefties need to have our heroes; stop taking them away!) Still, love the game.

 

[Pakky]

Nintendo has been doing weird controller things - I actually have an acrade-style controller for mine since the controller is so awkward. Still, the award for 'worst controller ever' goes to the Wii, since any games that needed you to actually move a character and swing instead of just flailing it around just don't work if you're left-handed.

For the Zelda games, I still love Ocarina. The dungeons are great, the story is great, and it even looks amazing - I've seen modern games that don't even hold up to 20-year-old graphics. Majora's Mask was also incredible, but it had the problem of following up Ocarina and even ported most assets. Still, the differences they did have - the time limit and the creepiness factor - really made it feel good as well.

I'm a huge fan of Twilight Princess. Each game has given the exposition fairy more and more personality, and I loved of the game felt. I actually favor Twilight Princess over Ocarina; it's may favorite Zelda-style Zelda game. Wind Waker didn't really impress me that much. I was always biased against the artstyle (Twilight Princess's is by far my favorite) but the game doesn't hook me well. It does have incredible music though.

Breath of the Wild doesn't really feel like a Zelda game...it feels a bit like Skyrim. I'm just starting another replay of that and it is incredible, but I think it changed too many things that it's hard to even consider it at the same time as the other Zeldas. I'd prefer it without the cel-shaded style, but it's not too frustrating to mie since the draw distance is incredible - I can see Medoh from the starting area! Also, Link being right-handed is more frustrating for me than it should be (we lefties need to have our heroes; stop taking them away!) Still, love the game.

Twilight was actually my first. I kinda hope we get a Majora's mask-like counterpart to BoTW. The Darker Zeldas are so interesting. Like the Twili are so weird and cool. Though BoTW I think should be the 'style' of things moving forward so much depth.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Honestly I'm hoping she has two.

Something tells me we're getting the 'Nero' of the franchise in 3.

I actually really enjoyed Bayo 2 (still not sold on 1). Still working on both as well.
That said, I really hope we don't get more content from Bayonetta.
There are a lot of people so irritated with the oversaturation of Fire Emblem in Smash that it will forever leave a poor imprint of the franchise in their mind.
I'd rather Bayonetta not try to irritate people more by getting extra attention and time.
Not to mention, time spent on it is actually time not spent elsewhere.

 

[Pakky]

I actually really enjoyed Bayo 2 (still not sold on 1). Still working on both as well.
That said, I really hope we don't get more content from Bayonetta.
There are a lot of people so irritated with the oversaturation of Fire Emblem in Smash that it will forever leave a poor imprint of the franchise in their mind.
I'd rather Bayonetta not try to irritate people more by getting extra attention and time.
Not to mention, time spent on it is actually time not spent elsewhere.

I get where you're coming from but that was a different time with strange politics.

Now more people than not are comfortable with the roster. Now balance is another issue but that's on the team. I don't think fans should be let down for the comfort of other fans, that's not fair.

 

[Cosmic77]

There's nothing wrong with more Bayo content, but it'd be hard for Sakurai to add new stages or new characters without it looking like blatant favoritism or forced promotion.

The Bayo franchise has its fans, but it's easily overshadowed by the others. Then when you look at the very little new content third-parties have been getting so far in Ultimate, Bayo getting something special feels suspicious. Why should her franchise get a new character when people have been asking for a new Sonic character for years? Why give her franchise a new stage, but not the more popular series like Mega Man or FF?

 

[pupNapoleon]

There's nothing wrong with more Bayo content,

In theory...

but it'd be hard for Sakurai to add new stages or new characters without it looking like blatant favoritism or forced promotion.

Sounds like something wrong with it, to me!

Bayonetta is the single franchise that I think should feel lucky at all. Not just to have been picked up by Nintendo, going as far as an off-brand Playboy shoot- but it was forced into Smash bros. She is a fun character, sure, but there isn't a point I can hear that this third party character needs more content.

I also have a bit of an issue with franchises that have more content than they have games (Hey you Kid Icarus, nearly there yourself Earthbound).
They are amazing games. They aren't amazing enough to justify how much more they get than other series.

And it is a competition for time, for resources. It may not be a 1-1 ratio, but when these franchises get even more content, it means others' dont.

Now more people than not are comfortable with the roster. Now balance is another issue but that's on the team. I don't think fans should be let down for the comfort of other fans, that's not fair.

If you want to say that the game does not need to be fair, I hear that. It doesnt, and it wont be.
But to tell me its not fair for Bayonetta to be passed over for more content... seems... to not understand how little Bayonetta has caused waves.
Nintendo is putting a lot of eggs in that basket. Bayonetta fans are among some of the luckiest in the world.
Let's not pretend there is anything unfair toward it.

 

[Pyra]

This is, quite literally, my absolute favorite official screenshot of Super Smash Brothers Ultimate released to this date.