Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Knight Dude]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

Either that or the SNES entry.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey, guys let's try and focus a little more on Smash Talk oka-

My favorite game of all time is an N64 game, so yeah...

Spoiler

But then there's Yoshi's Story compared to Yoshi's Island...

YOU TAKE THAT BAD MOUTHING OF YOSHI'S STORY BACK YOU CUR!

 

[MainJPW]

Or Riding Motorcycles that move slower than he runs? Or Cursing in what's typically a kid's series?(Although there's been mild swearing in Mega Man and I think the DK rap, but Shadow gets most of the flack for it.)

They always cuss in the Japanese versions of the games. Rouge calls Eggman ******* in Battle, Sonic says prick in Forces. In the Sonic X anime Sonic says **** in English. I guess it's not the same thing since Japan apparently doesn't care.

 

[Zinith]

Hey, guys let's try and focus a little more on Smash Talk oka-

YOU TAKE THAT BAD MOUTHING OF YOSHI'S STORY BACK YOU CUR!

Being compared to my second favorite game of all time isn't my idea of "bad mouthing," but whatever...

 

[ZephyrZ]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

Well they were all groundbreaking at time because for a lot of games it was their first step into 3D, but due to being the first steps into 3D they haven't as a whole aged incredibly well. Not that I think they're bad games.

IMO the SNES titles have aged far better. I am loving Super Metroid right now.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Being compared to my second favorite game of all time isn't my idea of "bad mouthing," but whatever...

T'was only a joke.

Are we expecting a Smash reveal next month? Like I know that they skipped July after E3 but they literally showed off EVERYONE at E3. Do we expect to at least get an Isabelle level reveal in October. I personally am but I wanted to see what you guy thought.

 

[MainJPW]

I often wonder what things would be like if we got Dinosaur Planet instead of Star Fox Adventures.

 

[Zinith]

I often wonder what things would be like if we got Dinosaur Planet instead of Star Fox Adventures.

Well then, Krystal most DEFINITELY wouldn't get in since she'd go with Rare in the Microsoft buyout...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I often wonder what things would be like if we got Dinosaur Planet instead of Star Fox Adventures.

Likely the same except without Krystal. Dinosaur Planet probably would've bombed pretty bad considering the possible release window. And then those characters would've gotten bought by Microsoft anyways. And then thrown into the trash heap like all other Rare franchises that aren't Killer Instinct.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Krystal would still exist, but her name would possibly change and she may not have had fur. That's all.

Oh, Krystal wasn't always in it? I thought the girl getting saved was part of the story from the beginning

 

[Kaeltor]

T'was only a joke.

Are we expecting a Smash reveal next month? Like I know that they skipped July after E3 but they literally showed off EVERYONE at E3. Do we expect to at least get an Isabelle level reveal in October. I personally am but I wanted to see what you guy thought.

I think the general consensus is that there will be a smash direct in mid to late October or early November at the latest.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't really believe in games aging as such, but I also have never taken much stock in games being groundbreaking, just good or bad. I think a lot of the better N64 games were good because they combined the fast pacing of older games with the more expansive world design ideas of newer games. Of course it was impossible in the SNES era without 3d, and for some reason starting in the GC era most games started having pretty absurd amounts of talking/cutscenes just constantly wasting the player's time and making the games a lot worse to play. I also think the collect-a-thon platformer was all around a good genre, and for some reason, the N64 is really the only platform on which they were more than a rarity. I remember we just had a ton of them all across the quality spectrum for that entire cycle, DK64 happened and some people got really salty at how tedious it was, everyone decided the genre sucked all of a sudden, and outside of a few notable exceptions every company just stopped making the games. It was sad...

We realistically have only one big reveal of information for Smash left, probably another Smash focused direct that will show us Ken, Incineroar, and the Spirits mode which will be the game's main single player mode. They really don't want to time this too early because after this it will be nothing but lingering hype moving copies until December 7, and we might expect them to reveal the identity of the first DLC character then similar to what they did with Mewtwo in Smash 4 so that will also be an argument not to go too early. The earliest realistic window for this is very late October, but I'd expect November personally.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I actually think the GC library was super good. If not the N64 (and soon-to-be Switch), then the GameCube had some absolutely great games to play on it that can arguably be considered some of Ninty's best

 

[Knight Dude]

T'was only a joke.

Are we expecting a Smash reveal next month? Like I know that they skipped July after E3 but they literally showed off EVERYONE at E3. Do we expect to at least get an Isabelle level reveal in October. I personally am but I wanted to see what you guy thought.

I'm expecting maybe 1 character in October and then maybe some big presentation in November.

I actually think the GC library was super good. If not the N64 (and soon-to-be Switch), then the GameCube had some absolutely great games to play on it that can arguably be considered some of Ninty's best

Well yeah, Mario Sunshine, Double Dash, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, RE 4, RE 1 remake, Twilight Princess. And that's just naming a few. It can also play the entire GBA library.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

How could you forget Luigi's Mansion and Melee?

 

[bbybae]

I actually think the GC library was super good. If not the N64 (and soon-to-be Switch), then the GameCube had some absolutely great games to play on it that can arguably be considered some of Ninty's best

i agree .... i feel like nintendo really had hit their stride after such a good run on the 64 and really took some good risks. Wind waker, sunshine, pikmin ... these are all games from a thriving company willing to go strange places. GC all the way

 

[Zinith]

The Gamecube was what got me to become a Nintendo fan...

 

[Astroworld]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

Not really

Not Kirby 64
Not Mario 64
Not Smash

just Zelda really

 

[Astroworld]

So, moving the focus to a more...sensible topic, how would you rank the third party characters based on how much you like them in their own series?
My ranking:
#1
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.
#7.
#8.
#9.

Since I don’t know how to do those stock icons

1. Snake
2. Mega Man
3. Bayonetta
4. Simon/Richter
5. Ryu
6. Cloud
7. Pac Man
8. Last and least, Sonic

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Not really

Not Kirby 64
Not Mario 64
Not Smash

just Zelda really

Mario 64 not being regarded as good? Where?

Kirby is a mixed bag. Haven't heard it thrown around but it isn't disliked.

I'll give you Smash.

 

[Astroworld]

Mario 64 not being regarded as good? Where?

Kirby is a mixed bag. Haven't heard it thrown around but it isn't disliked.

I'll give you Smash.

Mario 64 isn’t regarded as the best

Even if we’re restricting it to platformers, Mario Bros 3, World and Galaxy all get the same if not more praise

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I've never played any Sonic games with him in it, so my take might be inaccurate...
But to me, he seems be the personification of Sonic's spiral into a laughing stock. A character created to be gritty and dark for the sake of being gritty and dark. Pretty common in the early 2000's.

The genius behind Shadows design is that hes takes a tons inspiration from what everything was cool in 2000s was (Matrix, Evangelion, Blade, etc). He parallels exactly what Sonic did in the 90s, encapsulates the time period they were created in.

Not only that but Shadow design has a lot of nice visual design cues. The gold trim, red eyes, red streaks that goes with the black silhouette makes a perfect contrast. Plus the hover shoes that add sense of weight to the way he runs making him differentiate from sonic

 

[staindgrey]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

And the people who regard them as such have extremely thick rose-tinted glasses.

Also there's Castlevania 64 and StarCraft 64. I'm confident in saying thay nobody has ever said those were the best of their franchises. Ever.

 

[ganondorf_22]

Edgy has always been the "cool" thing that everyone likes to make fun of, but unironically loves

Edgy is not good. See Sony/Xbox marketing campaigns.

So, moving the focus to a more...sensible topic, how would you rank the third party characters based on how much you like them in their own series?
My ranking:
#1
#2.
#3.
#4.
#5.
#6.
#7.
#8.
#9.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

Not really

Not Kirby 64
Not Mario 64
Not Smash

just Zelda really

Kirby 64 is my favorite Kirby.

 

[Mutsukki]

Not really

Not Kirby 64
Not Mario 64
Not Smash

just Zelda really

You were only right on Smash

Kirby 64 is definitely my favorite Kirby too

 

[ZephyrZ]

I suppose what I meant when I said N64 games hadn't "aged well" what I really meant was that they left a lot of room to grow. Ocarina of Time is still a great game, but its combat is bland and its Hyrule Field is far more barren then the often-ridiculed Twilight Princess's. Games like OoT and Mario 64 set in place the framework that later games were built off of. And they were pretty dang good frameworks to, they just hadn't met their full potential.

On the other hand, the SNES was sort of an end of an era. Developers had already learned lessons from the NES to improve upon, but there also haven't been a ton of 2D big-budget titles since to improve that style of game design. There's still been some phenominal 2D games since then, such as Tropical Freeze, but most attention has gone into improving the flashier, more marketable and more immersive 3D games instead. As a result the standards for 2D games haven't raised quite as much, as so the older ones still hold up in comparison.

Of course this is all subjective and also partially dependant on the era of games that introduced you. I grew up playing almost exclusively GBA and DS Pokemon though, so by the time I started giving N64 games a try they were already "old". OoT 3D is actually what got me into the Zelda series though and it will always hold a place in my heart, even if I think WW and TP are a bit better in most (although not all) ways.

 

[Nonno Umby]

T'was only a joke.

Are we expecting a Smash reveal next month? Like I know that they skipped July after E3 but they literally showed off EVERYONE at E3. Do we expect to at least get an Isabelle level reveal in October. I personally am but I wanted to see what you guy thought.

I think we will. Reveals have always became more frequent as the release approached.
I think we might see a trailer drop like what happened with Robin and Lucina during Smash For. My personal prediction is either Elma or Incineroar.

 

[Deleted member]

So who here thinks which two characters are more likely;
Elma
Inceneroar
Chorus Children
or Steve?

 

[pholtos]

I never experience the N64 era of gaming, went from SNES to Gamecube.

So trying some of the games on N64, I was thrown off by how messy the controls were, how barren a lot of the games were, and how awkward the controller was. It didn't help I only tried OoT after playing WindWaker. Didn't try SM64 til after playing Sunshine. (Never beat SM64 by the way, always got bored one way or the other, I manged to beat OoT fully once but since then any time I try to replay it I tend to quit soon after finishing the Fire Temple)

I forgive the first two somewhat due to it being the first 3D console generation (PS1 suffers similar problems), but man do I consider the controller terrible.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I often wonder what things would be like if we got Dinosaur Planet instead of Star Fox Adventures.

I honestly liked her design before she was made into Star Fox Adventures, I really wish kept her original design.

Well then, Krystal most DEFINITELY wouldn't get in since she'd go with Rare in the Microsoft buyout...

True but I feel like she would have been a more successful character than how she was put in Star Fox. Being demoted from protagonist to damsel in distress didn't do her any favors.

 

[Deleted member]

I never experience the N64 era of gaming, went from SNES to Gamecube.

So trying some of the games on N64, I was thrown off by how messy the controls were, how barren a lot of the games were, and how awkward the controller was. It didn't help I only tried OoT after playing WindWaker. Didn't try SM64 til after playing Sunshine. (Never beat SM64 by the way, always got bored one way or the other, I manged to beat OoT fully once but since then any time I try to replay it I tend to quit soon after finishing the Fire Temple)

I forgive the first two somewhat due to it being the first 3D console generation (PS1 suffers similar problems), but man do I consider the controller terrible.

I'm somewhat in the same boat as you. My first console ever was a Gamecube. I didn't get to experience SNES, N64, or PS1 titles until much later in my life. I missed out on a lot of good games.

 

[Zinith]

See, I never grew up with an N64 as I had a PlayStation and played the **** out of Crash, Tomb Raider and the early Harry Potter games (no joke)

 

[Nonno Umby]

So who here thinks which two characters are more likely;
Elma
Inceneroar
Chorus Children
or Steve?

They are all quite likely IMO
Steve and Incineroar have credible rumors to back them up, while Chorus Kids and Elma make perfect sense as a usual Sakurai pick, and both have something that may indicate them being added.

 

[Deleted member]

So a lot Fire Emblem characters get flak for being generic, and thus, not a whole lot of Smash fans want an FE newcomer. I have my own issues with FE's roster in Smash, but one character that I think could be a unique addition is Alm. How you may ask? Weapon Arts.

:ultrobin's gimmick is magic. He uses spells and the Levin Sword in combat. 's gimmick is his manakate heritage, which allows him to shape-shift his body for all sorts of crazy attacks. So why not do the same for Alm? How about Alm utilize combat arts such as Double Lion, Windsweep, Aeigis, and other Weapon Arts in his moveset? And how about his Final Smash be Scendance Scale?

I think Alm has a lot more potential than many realize.

 

[DevaAshera]

...Your brother is 129?

Day not year, you dork

Likely the same except without Krystal. Dinosaur Planet probably would've bombed pretty bad considering the possible release window. And then those characters would've gotten bought by Microsoft anyways. And then thrown into the trash heap like all other Rare franchises that aren't Killer Instinct.

Krystal was in from the very beginning, along with a male fox named Saber who Fox replaced.
Here are Krystal & Saber along with Krystal's redesign and Fox.

You are right though, the game likely would have bombed or became more of a cult classic like Jet Force Gemini had it not become a StarFox game and Krystal would probably have never seen another game nor gotten any of the popularity she has received due to the rebranding.

Krystal would still exist, but her name would possibly change and she may not have had fur. That's all.

Oh, Krystal wasn't always in it? I thought the girl getting saved was part of the story from the beginning

Krystal was always in the game..but she wasn't the damsel in distress at first, originally you got to play as Saber, who later was replaced by Fox (due to Miyamoto thinking he looked like Fox), while Krystal's playable role was reduced to a tutorial and little more.

I wish they would have kept them both fully playable..

 

[Jetsurge]

So a lot Fire Emblem characters get flak for being generic, and thus, not a whole lot of Smash fans want an FE newcomer. I have my own issues with FE's roster in Smash, but one character that I think could be a unique addition is Alm. How you may ask? Weapon Arts.

:ultrobin's gimmick is magic. He uses spells and the Levin Sword in combat. 's gimmick is his manakate heritage, which allows him to shape-shift his body for all sorts of crazy attacks. So why not do the same for Alm? How about Alm utilize combat arts such as Double Lion, Windsweep, Aeigis, and other Weapon Arts in his moveset? And how about his Final Smash be Scendance Scale?

I think Alm has a lot more potential than many realize.

FE doesn't need anymore characters. It already has far too many and there are a lot of characters who deserve to get in over just another FE character.

 

[osby]

FE doesn't need anymore characters. It already has far too many and there are a lot of characters who deserve to get in over just another FE character.

Dunno, I'd like to do a 8 player Smash with just Fire Emblem characters.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Nintendo 64 games are all regarded as the best of the franchises unless it's Donkey Kong

The N64 is the most overrated unsuccessful console of all time, but to me the 1st Smash is still the best one.
I think the SNES, however, IS the console with the best entries from each franchise.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Now that I think of it, people don't mind Fox and the gang having near realistic guns either. Again, probably due to the nature of the series from the get having to do with shooting, just in vehicles at first, so the transition to them using sci-fi guns felt less weird. Though people just hated being on foot what-so-ever in Star Fox.

I think a big reason why on-foot in Assault had mixed reception wasn't because people were directly opposed to the idea. The game opens up with an on-rails Arwing segment, feeling like a true 64-esque sequel. Then you get dropped on foot without much of a notice, and have to spend time trying to figure out the controls. Controls weren't awful, at least in my opinion, but could've been better. If they eased you into on-foot missions a bit better, and with slightly improved controls, I think it would've been much more warmly received.

Personally, I think a formula similar to Kid Icarus: Uprising where missions would take place both in a vehicle and transition to on-foot. Have that be the main story, then have an Arcade mode unlocked from the beginning where they could toggle on-foot segments off if they want to only play in vehicles.

I've never played any Star Fox games. I heard they weren't that good other than 64.

The original Star Fox for the SNES was pretty well received, same with Star Fox 2 on the SNES Classic. Star Fox Adventures and Star Fox: Assault both sold over a million copies, and are generally considered good games, just not up to par with Star Fox 64. Star Fox Command and Star Fox Zero are considered as 'lesser' installments of the franchise. Command had an odd control scheme and poor writing, whereas Zero also had a poor control scheme in addition to it being another retelling of Star Fox 64's story.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Day not year, you dork

Krystal was in from the very beginning, along with a male fox named Saber who Fox replaced.
Here are Krystal & Saber along with Krystal's redesign and Fox.

You are right though, the game likely would have bombed or became more of a cult classic like Jet Force Gemini had it not become a StarFox game and Krystal would probably have never seen another game nor gotten any of the popularity she has received due to the rebranding.

Krystal was always in the game..but she wasn't the damsel in distress at first, originally you got to play as Saber, who later was replaced by Fox (due to Miyamoto thinking he looked like Fox), while Krystal's playable role was reduced to a tutorial and little more.

I wish they would have kept them both fully playable..

Sorry, I saw a cheap shot and I took it