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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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staindgrey

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Honestly, I think it's even more surreal that Metroid, the series that only has, like, two or three characters besides Samus who could legitimately work in Smash, got to four reps before Kirby, Star Fox, and DK - franchises that have plenty of options.
We also have to remember, though, that echoes only get in because they're much easier to make.

Dark Samus is only in because we already had Samus. Chrom and Lucina-- and even Roy-- are only in because we have Marth. If we count unique movesets, Kirby is only overshadowed by Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem.

Not saying Kirby shouldn't have a fourth character at all. But in terms of padding the game's representation with echoes, who would be a good echo for Kirby, Dedede or Metaknight?

EDIT: Zelda only actually has three unique movesets. Duh.
 
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Taco Cruise

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That's what bugs me out.

I came in thinking.

"Okay of my three I might get :ultkrool: cuz those costumes must mean something but BWD will be in for sure"

Now I got :ultridley::ultkrool: back to back which is wild(and had me in tears) but its a weird feeling not to have BWD when it felt so assured.
I've always thought BWD was the least likely of every character people have been seriously discussing since the game was announced, even though he's an important part of kirby he literally looks generic, I can imagine him being an assist trophy though.
 
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Not saying Kirby shouldn't have a fourth character at all. But in terms of padding the game's representation with echoes, who would be a good echo for Kirby, Dedede or Metaknight?
Dark Meta Knight.
 
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D

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We also have to remember, though, that echoes only get in because they're much easier to make.

Dark Samus is only in because we already had Samus. Chrom and Lucina-- and even Roy-- are only in because we have Marth. If we count unique movesets, Kirby is only overshadowed by Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem.

Not saying Kirby shouldn't have a fourth character at all. But in terms of padding the game's representation with echoes, who would be a good echo for Kirby, Dedede or Metaknight?
Dark Meta Knight is a pretty popular choice for an Echo. He's gotten pretty popular with Kirby fans since coming back in Star Allies, so if there is Echo DLC, I could see him making it in.
 

Exalt4747

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We also have to remember, though, that echoes only get in because they're much easier to make.

Dark Samus is only in because we already had Samus. Chrom and Lucina-- and even Roy-- are only in because we have Marth. If we count unique movesets, Kirby is only overshadowed by Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem.

Not saying Kirby shouldn't have a fourth character at all. But in terms of padding the game's representation with echoes, who would be a good echo for Kirby, Dedede or Metaknight?

EDIT: Zelda only actually has three unique movesets. Duh.
I believe Gooey is able to use copy powers just as Kirby does, and since Kirby's other three moves are copy abilities, he can at least do all of Kirby's specials.
 

Pakky

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I've always thought BWD was the least likely of every character people have been seriously discussing since the game was announced, even though he's an important part of kirby he literally looks generic, I can imagine him being an assist trophy though.
I see where you're coming from but the spear is just too diverse for me to think otherwise. Especially in Star Allies when it can have elemental properties like the rest of the weapon types. Also if Kirby were to eve have a :ultluigi: I'd be BWD.
 
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Chrono.

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Dark Meta Knight and Morpho Knight could work as Meta Knight's echoes.

I prefer the latter, personally.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I think Dark Meta Knight fits perfectly the most as an echo although I am aware the Kirby game he originated from wasn't made by Sakurai himself so it can't be a case of Sakurai bias.
 
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majora_787

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Honestly, I think it's even more surreal that Metroid, the series that only has, like, two or three characters besides Samus who could legitimately work in Smash, got to four reps before Kirby, Star Fox, and DK - franchises that have plenty of options.
I'm not trying to start any kind of fights or anything, but does Star Fox really have that many options? I feel like the majority of its characters -- and I mean a VERY large quantity -- would just lend themselves to fighting like Fox, unless we did something like specify Star Fox Adventures Krystal or took some next level creative liberties with Andross. I mean I'd be down for new Star Fox characters as much as the next person but I don't think the cast is all that diverse for smash viability.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I've always thought BWD was the least likely of every character people have been seriously discussing since the game was announced, even though he's an important part of kirby he literally looks generic, I can imagine him being an assist trophy though.
I personally think the fact that Chef Kawasaki was shown off in the 8/8 Assist Trophies segment and not Bandana Waddle Dee is a good sign for the latter

That is, were it not for the Music Theory....dang it I want both him AND Elma, Elma technically doesn’t even need the music theory to have a shot
 

Untouch

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They've showcased the Galacta Knight alt but not the Dark Metaknight alt, which is odd. Star Allies did a really good job fleshing out his moveset so I'd be welcome. Maybe this would finally lead to an Amazing Mirror sequel? Please?

I think Dark Meta Knight fits perfectly the most as an echo although I am aware the Kirby game he originated from wasn't made by Sakurai himself so it can't be a case of Sakurai bias.
Sakurai was involved in the development of Amazing Mirror, I think he was just a supervisor at least.
 

Taco Cruise

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I see where you're coming from but the spear is just too diverse for me to think otherwise. Especially in Star Allies when it can have elemental properties like the rest of the weapon types. Also if Kirby were to eve have a :ultluigi: I'd be BWD.
Not saying he wouldn't be fun or unique, I think a spear would bring a decent variation to the game especially if it can be elemental, I think the character itself is literally a variation of a generic enemy, and won't market well enough. I just suggest tempering expectations for him specifically, just as I am for Banjo-Kazooie and Black Shadow
 

Michael the Spikester

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Sakurai was involved in the development of Amazing Mirror, I think he was just a supervisor at least.
Not surprised being he's the creator of Kirby. In that case I can see Sakurai bias still being involved with Dark Meta Knight's inclusion. I'd have no issue with him being added he looks pretty cool and wicked. :)
 

Sharkarat

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Honestly, I think it's even more surreal that Metroid, the series that only has, like, two or three characters besides Samus who could legitimately work in Smash, got to four reps before Kirby, Star Fox, DK - franchises that have plenty of options.
Eh, I wouldn't really say those have plenty of option, more that they have an obvious fourth (Bandana Dee, Krystal, Dixie).
Outside of Krystal Star Fox is jut different flavors of Space Animals.
and Metoid really only needed its two other potential characters to get four when it got a second Samus.

We also have to remember, though, that echoes only get in because they're much easier to make.

Dark Samus is only in because we already had Samus. Chrom and Lucina-- and even Roy-- are only in because we have Marth. If we count unique movesets, Kirby is only overshadowed by Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem.

Not saying Kirby shouldn't have a fourth character at all. But in terms of padding the game's representation with echoes, who would be a good echo for Kirby, Dedede or Metaknight?
Kirby and Dedede doesn't have any good options. But Meta Knight has Dark Meta Knight.
I believe Gooey is able to use copy powers just as Kirby does, and since Kirby's other three moves are copy abilities, he can at least do all of Kirby's specials.
But not really the normals, so he would easily be too much work for an Echo
 

Untouch

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I could see Dedede getting either Masked Dedede or one of the clone Dededes from rorobot.
I can't see Kirby getting an echo because of the work it'd require to make a new model for each costume.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I feel like Dark Meta Knight would be best as an Alph-esque costume, an echo is only really for when the character is so different, often personality-wise or in terms of fighting style, that they really can't share the same animations/attacks. Meta Knight is already this brooding mysterious guy, so Dark Meta Knight fits well enough over him.
 
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pupNapoleon

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As pointed out, those aren't quite the same statements. Saying we might need to take a new direction isn't the same as "Don't expect too many new fighters" or "A few more reveals".

Assuming 5+ more characters, and I was one of those people a few weeks ago, is being way too optimistic. Could happen sure, but it's not what Sakurai has set up so don't be mad at him if we only have 2-3 more characters.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the don't be mad at him, wasn't to anyone specifically in this thread. Just anyone who expects lots of reveals left because Sakurai is probably lying/tricking us etc. Guy literally told us what to expect. We should be surprised if there's more not if there's less.
If you legitimately want to quibble about this wording, then you're already verifying the argument that the words can mean anything but the intended purpose.
 

staindgrey

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I'm not trying to start any kind of fights or anything, but does Star Fox really have that many options? I feel like the majority of its characters -- and I mean a VERY large quantity -- would just lend themselves to fighting like Fox, unless we did something like specify Star Fox Adventures Krystal or took some next level creative liberties with Andross. I mean I'd be down for new Star Fox characters as much as the next person but I don't think the cast is all that diverse for smash viability.
The thing with Star Fox is that the spacey moveset is made up to begin with; none of it really draws from any Star Fox game, which is almost always spent in the cockpit of an Arwing.

You could make a new gadget-intensive moveset for Slippy or Peppy. You could give Krystal her staff. You could give Panther Caroso a new moveset based around a Zorro-like panther since that's basically what the character is. You can do anything you want, but you're also hindered by-- Krystal aside-- not having any inspiration to draw from. You're just making **** up.
 
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Driver Of The Aegis

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So what if the development of Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo NX followed a new direction, something different from the five previous installments? A 'reimagining' of sorts? Keep the core concept, 'let's have the most iconic Nintendo characters join the fray and brawl together!', but with radical tweaks in its core gameplay formula? Now this is simply a random theory that comes out of nowhere, but allow me to elaborate.

The basic setting remains the same: from 2 to 4 (8?) fighters duking it out on 2D platforms/stages, with classic Nintendo items making their way into the battles and aforementioned stages having various gimmicks. Following the example of the most quick-paced, action-packed fighting games out there (Street Fighter, Tekken etc.) Sora Ltd. would focus on giving the characters a moveset and a mobility fit for fast, powerful combo channelings that lead the fighters into extreme yet pleasing-looking battles. As I look at games like J-Stars, I believe Bandai Namco know a big sweet deal about these kinda games; wouldn't it translate well to Smash Bros.? So anyway, it wouldn't just be a matter of dealing U-airs and jabs and D-tilts and grabs and recovering to the stages' ledges anymore. It would be infinitely more complex but still as easy to pick up as 'old' SSB games were.

And to go along with the somewhat different gameplay, how about a new aesthetic look for the software? (Think of how Brawl's textures look pretty dark while SSB4 is looking all bright and colorful). In my head it would adopt a style similar to that of Super Mario Strikers Charged for Wii.

The roster would be radically shrinked down in number - getting rids of any clones and semi-clones, mostly focusing on having each character be as unique as possible, so the roster could as well be 25 characters (I mean this is the same size as Melee's roster and nobody would complain about it as long as the software is still as high quality-wise as the other games in the franchise). On the other hand, they would spend development time on making more stages, items, trophies, additional game modes and inserting more music tracks into the game's data.

That's not all, though! Now this is probably gonna depend on whether Sakurai is still leading the development of the new game, but if he's not, Bandai Namco MAY pick up the pieces and bring back a true Adventure mode (which SSB4 absurdly lacked tbh).

The 'Ultimate' Super Smash Bros. experience? My English level is currently too weak for me to be able to give you more accurate descriptions about all of this, my apologies.

However, what are your thoughts about a possible change in the gameplay formula of our beloved SSB?
Wow, some good ideas in there, but you got almost everything wrong
 

Chrono.

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I feel like Dark Meta Knight would be best as an Alph-esque costume, an echo is only really for when the character is so different, often personality-wise or in terms of fighting style, that they really can't share the same animations/attacks. Meta Knight is already this brooding mysterious guy, so Dark Meta Knight fits well enough over him.
Yeah, that's one reason why I feel Morpho Knight works a little better as an echo as he's much more visually distinct.

KSA_Morpho_Knight_model.png
Then again it probably doesn't matter much, Dark Samus fights nothing like Samus in canon but works just fine as an echo.
 
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majora_787

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The thing with Star Fox is that the spacey moveset is made up to begin with; none of it really draws from any Star Fox game, which is almost always spent in the cockpit of an Arwing.

You could make a new gadget-intensive moveset for Slippy or Peppy. You could give Krystal her staff. You could give Panther Caroso a new moveset based around a Zorro-like panther since that's basically what the character is. You can do anything you want, but you're also hindered by-- Krystal aside-- not having any inspiration to draw from. You're just making **** up.
I'm not really saying they 'can't' as much as I'm saying 'I'm not sure they'd go through the trouble'. Yeah, they already had to make everything up and they'd just have to make stuff up again, but in the case of things like Panther or even Slippy or Peppy I don't know if they would actually do that instead of just trying to recycle what they can from Fox. Though I'm just kind of looking to Star Fox Assault when I say that, where the biggest differences between characters like Slippy and Peppy and everyone else were targeting reticles and jump height.

If we got a Star Wolf member not named Andrew at any point though I'd be all over that.

EDIT: I had a similar conversation to this about Dark Pit at one point iirc. Basically, yeah they could, but I really don't know if they would.
 
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SneakDuckens

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I'm not trying to start any kind of fights or anything, but does Star Fox really have that many options? I feel like the majority of its characters -- and I mean a VERY large quantity -- would just lend themselves to fighting like Fox, unless we did something like specify Star Fox Adventures Krystal or took some next level creative liberties with Andross. I mean I'd be down for new Star Fox characters as much as the next person but I don't think the cast is all that diverse for smash viability.
I think an Andross boss fight would be amazing. The only thing that would be tricky is being able to differentiate the battle enough from Master/Crazy Hand.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I think an Andross boss fight would be amazing. The only thing that would be tricky is being able to differentiate the battle enough from Master/Crazy Hand.
Don't know about you but as unlikely as it is I'd rather see General Scales w/ King RedEye (Riding him). Imagine at times General Scales hops off and then fighting them both at once before after a few minutes the same keeps repeating.

It'd be a pretty cool and unique boss fight.
 
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pupNapoleon

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I'm not trying to start any kind of fights or anything, but does Star Fox really have that many options? I feel like the majority of its characters -- and I mean a VERY large quantity -- would just lend themselves to fighting like Fox, unless we did something like specify Star Fox Adventures Krystal or took some next level creative liberties with Andross. I mean I'd be down for new Star Fox characters as much as the next person but I don't think the cast is all that diverse for smash viability.
I think Andross is the most interesting character in Starfox. I'd love to see him playable.
 
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