Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

View attachment 165659

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

Um wow... Okay... Did not know that...
I checked the Wikipedia Page on Mach Rider... Saw a Mix of Hes and Shes
Also, doesn't she predate Samus by like a Year?

 

[AugustusB]

Honestly, to be blunt, this community has issues with expectations and not appreciating what we’re actually being given here.

This isn’t to say you should shut up and accept whatever is given to you, quite the opposite. You should voice your displeasures.

However...just because one character is or isn’t in the game doesn’t mean that we should be crapping all over it. The tribalism that occurs over characters for his is fascinating. If you support one thing over another, you’re a fanboy or just “wrong”. If you like something I don’t like, then “shut up”.

Like i’m not saying this as if I haven’t done it in the past. We have to remember the entire fanbase is split across several age generations, genders, races, what have you, and expectations are therefore different.

We have people who are trying to make a point that...POTENTIALLY... there aren’t many characters left. This shouldn’t be something that is hard to grasp. It is an inference based on an observation.

The response has mostly been, “There’s no way that’s it. You’re wrong and dumb for even thinking that”. However, there are several reasons why it’s not dumb, and could very well be right. People are ****ting on it because they aren’t listening to Sakurai, as usual, and don’t want to hear something that wouldn’t bode well for their prospective new main.

Now, i’m not trying to say the community altogether is toxic. There are some really great users. I myself am looking to be more involved in the community after Ultimate releases. However, at this stage in the speculation cycle, it’s only going to get worse once the final bit of info comes out.

People are going to be rabid and angry no matter what because the speculation community is insatiable, mainly when it comes to characters. It’s as if nothing else matters. They could add the coolest story mode on top of the already massive 75 CHARACTER ROSTER and still be pissed off that their one most wanted didn’t get in.

It’s not Sakurais fault that you’re disappointed when you decided to not listen to what he said, and deliberately believe he was lying. It is the fault of the community for not having reasonable expectations, and not finding a way to enjoy what they have.

I used to be the person who was salty when certain things didn’t go my way. Once I went with the flow and FOUND WAYS TO ENJOY THINGS, life became much easier.

The Smash fanbase could learn something from that. Or, they’ll just go back to flaming people for liking something that they don’t.

This. Beautifully said as always, Teach. The one thing that makes Ultimate unique is the time schedule to get info out.

That is another thing to consider in all this. I believe this is a first for Smash and we are still in the mindset of Sm4sh information being presented like rapid fire.

Now sometimes yeah a 'leak' comes along and I find it enticing, but that's all it is...a 'leak'.

Sakurai is teaching us patience where we were given new info like hot cakes back in the day.

There is exciting things on the horizon.

 

[Momotsuki]

I will agree that for the most part it's a vocal minority. Usually most of a potential fighter's fanbase is pretty chill and not all that rabid. Like, I find most hard-line Shantae fans to be absolutely unbearable, but I'm pretty confident that's just me dealing with a vocal minority, and that most of her fanbase probably isn't so bad.

 

[Untouch]

When is Famitsu releasing this week? There should be a Sakurai column in it this week.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think I've had some sour experiences with fans of pretty much every character, except Isaac fans for some reason, his fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

 

[MSmariosonic]

This community will never learn and the people telling me I’m overestimating the backlash if the recent theories are true are quite honestly naive. And don’t give me that “oh it’s a vocal minority” bull ****. That’s no excuse.

But it IS a vocal minority.

Yes there are going to be quite some individuals who will be saltier than the dead sea.

But the majority won't get disappointed with a Triple AAA game because of some stupid cardboard.

Just look at how well Ridley, K. Rool and Simon were received.

 

[Untouch]

I think I've had some sour experiences with fans of pretty much every character, except Isaac fans for some reason, his fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

 

[Sharkarat]

This community will never learn and the people telling me I’m overestimating the backlash if the recent theories are true are quite honestly naive. And don’t give me that “oh it’s a vocal minority” bull ****. That’s no excuse.

It will be bad at release, but will fade away, like always. Nothing like you original statement, which was.

I honestly doubt the community will ever be the same.

 

[Deleted member]

his[Isaac's] fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

I hate you for this

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I hate you for this

That actually wasn't intentional... but I have no regrets regardless.

 

[osby]

I think I've had some sour experiences with fans of pretty much every character, except Isaac fans for some reason, his fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

Nice joke. I've saw some nasty fans after Robin is revealed but yeah, they are A LOT better then almost all pre-Brawl support groups.

 

[Koopaul]

And depending on how big SPirits is, you can probably go over 10-15 minutes just there.

Let alone the supposed 5 stages we've yet to see.


And the Vergeben characters, and Sakurai explaining how they work.


Right there is a solid 20 minutes of information.



Like, maybe I'm crazy, but planning out Directs every 2 months until release seems perfect:


June > August > October > Release


If we're still getting rehashed info from 8.8 deep into October.... well besides music, what even is the point of watching the blog? There is none.

But why would he have a big Direct in October when it makes way more sense to have a big Direct close to the game's launch? Like I said before. You have to spread things out, but you got to do it in a way that makes sense. If there was a big blow out Direct in October, what are we going to do in November? Just wait for the game with all this info on our laps?

 

[MBRedboy31]

But why would he have a big Direct in October when it makes way more sense to have a big Direct close to the game's launch? Like I said before. You have to spread things out, but you got to do it in a way that makes sense. If there was a big blow out Direct in October, what are we going to do in November? Just wait for the game with all this info on our laps?

They’ll set up a 24/7 livestream of new videos of matches between devs to keep us entertained.
The catch is that the videos will be in extreeeeeme slow-mo so that they only need to make like 4 of them to last all day each day.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So... Discussing Mach Rider earlier, Made Me Realize Something...

Keep an eye out on these guys...

Spoiler: Potential Retro Reps...

 

[CosmicQuark]

But why would he have a big Direct in October when it makes way more sense to have a big Direct close to the game's launch? Like I said before. You have to spread things out, but you got to do it in a way that makes sense. If there was a big blow out Direct in October, what are we going to do in November? Just wait for the game with all this info on our laps?

It could be a way to prevent leaks, as a month before release is when it gets trickier to avoid them. It could also be that there's something big in October, and maybe something much smaller in November (or vice versa). Really, I could see a multitude of possibilities, as we still don't know what the full game would look like and how much more there is to be revealed to predict what the best way to pace reveals would be.

 

[Deleted member]

So... Discussing Mach Rider earlier, Made Me Realize Something...

Keep an eye out on these guys...

Spoiler: Potential Retro Reps...

Excuse me? Did you just forget the best option ever?

Spoiler

 

[Door Key Pig]

Like, I saw this idea that X character doesn't deserve a character spot as much as other choices, and while that's accurate to an extent (Dixie Kong is leagues above deserving a spot than Sans, for example), are we the ones projecting how much a character is "deserved" a spot or not?

When is Famitsu releasing this week? There should be a Sakurai column in it this week.

Source Gaming said there wasn't a column, maybe because of the whole direct delay thing.

 

[-crump-]

I wouldn’t be suprised if we got a suprise livestream reveal next month, like what happened with the Robin/Lucina reveal trailer. Just Sakurai saying “ayy wus poppin check out the new character trailer in 3 days see ya”. Then they do a 50-fact esque thing in November to show off Spirit Mode and the last newcomer.

 

[monadoboy]

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

View attachment 165659

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

Huh, if they use this design (minus the boob window, that's obviously gonna go) I'd be more than okay with her in Smash. Specially if they keep the old school anime aesthetic.

 

[ZephyrZ]

This community will never learn and the people telling me I’m overestimating the backlash if the recent theories are true are quite honestly naive. And don’t give me that “oh it’s a vocal minority” bull ****. That’s no excuse.

Being a vocal minority doesn't excuse toxicity, but the reason I pointed that out wasn't to excuse it, it was to remind everyone how warped our perception could be.

Remember how furious everyone was about the previous Nintendo Direct? It felt like everyone hated Isabelle. Well, check out the poll at the top. In actuality, over 80% of us were left satisfied. She is actually very popular right now and it only looked like everyone hated her.

Overall, the Smash Community is overall actually pretty awesome and a small handful of loud, immature haters aren't going to take away all that's good about it. There's still a lot of amazing fan art, amusing comics, jokes and memes, and plenty of fantastic people to meet and play with as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I've had some sour experiences with fans of pretty much every character, except Isaac fans for some reason, his fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

I've had pretty dang horrible experiences with this fanbase, and it's not even character fanbase exclusive honestly.

I think, that as a whole, it's kinda hard to ignore when someone hop in and ruin the experience for me when I talk any related topic to this franchise. People have no patience for others, whether it is about character support or the ways you want to play the game.

One dude pretty much ruined any pre-established friendships with me because I told him I like to play with items. Another wanted me to commit suicide because I liked Samus' Other M design in Sm4sh.

But I digress, that is a common denominator when it comes to a franchise as popular as Smash, doesn't it? You always run into the crazy ones.

 

[Frostwraith]

In regards to Chrom's addition as Roy's echo fighter, it's definitely an interesting design choice.

Sakurai himself admitted that if he were to put Chrom in Smash, he would end up similar to both Marth and Ike, and when Roy was added as DLC for Smash 3DS/Wii U, to further differentiate him from Marth, Roy was given a heavier feel and even shares a move with Ike (down aerial), so it had me wondering if some conceptual ideas Sakurai had for Chrom ended up being used for Roy.

And now Chrom is Roy's echo fighter, except he draws a little more from Ike with the up special being derivative from Ike's. It all comes full circle.

 

[Pakky]

"Call into the night" is back this is amazing.




On my list I had three really big ones that I wanted

1. Ridely

2. Rool

3. BWD

With Ridley here I feel very at ease though Rool has me hopeful. That costume keeps me up at night.

BWD feels like a OCD quality of life sort of thing for me. Like he's only gotten more prominent as the years have rolled on by.

Looking back its amazing that I'm only waiting on one more.

 

[Q-Long]

So... Discussing Mach Rider earlier, Made Me Realize Something...

Keep an eye out on these guys...

Spoiler: Potential Retro Reps...

I would love it if Sakurai revived these guys... heck I would love it if he revived Ray or Andy... they're old now too, not as old as the 7 you posted and Ayumi however. I think there was also a Shin Onigushuma (sp) trophy?

Kid Icarus Uprising was amazing. I hope he makes a new game with one of these buggers or with the Ice Climbers

 

[monadoboy]

In regards to Chrom's addition as Roy's echo fighter, it's definitely an interesting design choice.

Sakurai himself admitted that if he were to put Chrom in Smash, he would end up similar to both Marth and Ike, and when Roy was added as DLC for Smash 3DS/Wii U, to further differentiate him from Marth, Roy was given a heavier feel and even shares a move with Ike (down aerial), so it had me wondering if some conceptual ideas Sakurai had for Chrom ended up being used for Roy.

And now Chrom is Roy's echo fighter, except he draws a little more from Ike with the up special being derivative from Ike's. It all comes full circle.

I love how being a Roy Echo makes his moveset look closer to Lucina's, like they should be.

 

[Ryuuma]

I love how being a Roy Echo makes his moveset look closer to Lucina's, like they should be.

Thats because Roy is a Marth's clone already.

 

[osby]

I would love it if Sakurai revived these guys... heck I would love it if he revived Ray or Andy... they're old now too, not as old as the 7 you posted and Ayumi however. I think there was also a Shin Onigushuma (sp) trophy?

Kid Icarus Uprising was amazing. I hope he makes a new game with one of these buggers or with the Ice Climbers

I've always felt like a character needs to fly if Sakurai is going to make a game that they are protags.

 

[Nekoo]

Thats because Roy is a Marth's clone already.

He's barelly a Marth clone at this point. He share D-tilt/N-air/Side-B/Back-air/Visual Throw

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Honestly, to be blunt, this community has issues with expectations and not appreciating what we’re actually being given here.

This isn’t to say you should shut up and accept whatever is given to you, quite the opposite. You should voice your displeasures.

However...just because one character is or isn’t in the game doesn’t mean that we should be crapping all over it. The tribalism that occurs over characters for his is fascinating. If you support one thing over another, you’re a fanboy or just “wrong”. If you like something I don’t like, then “shut up”.

Like i’m not saying this as if I haven’t done it in the past. We have to remember the entire fanbase is split across several age generations, genders, races, what have you, and expectations are therefore different.

We have people who are trying to make a point that...POTENTIALLY... there aren’t many characters left. This shouldn’t be something that is hard to grasp. It is an inference based on an observation.

The response has mostly been, “There’s no way that’s it. You’re wrong and dumb for even thinking that”. However, there are several reasons why it’s not dumb, and could very well be right. People are ****ting on it because they aren’t listening to Sakurai, as usual, and don’t want to hear something that wouldn’t bode well for their prospective new main.

Now, i’m not trying to say the community altogether is toxic. There are some really great users. I myself am looking to be more involved in the community after Ultimate releases. However, at this stage in the speculation cycle, it’s only going to get worse once the final bit of info comes out.

People are going to be rabid and angry no matter what because the speculation community is insatiable, mainly when it comes to characters. It’s as if nothing else matters. They could add the coolest story mode on top of the already massive 75 CHARACTER ROSTER and still be pissed off that their one most wanted didn’t get in.

It’s not Sakurais fault that you’re disappointed when you decided to not listen to what he said, and deliberately believe he was lying. It is the fault of the community for not having reasonable expectations, and not finding a way to enjoy what they have.

I used to be the person who was salty when certain things didn’t go my way. Once I went with the flow and FOUND WAYS TO ENJOY THINGS, life became much easier.

The Smash fanbase could learn something from that. Or, they’ll just go back to flaming people for liking something that they don’t.

Yea people who pointed out that Sakurai was clearly lying or just trying to set us up for big reveals and suprises when he said "We hope you weren't expecting too many challengers" are what cause the problems in the speculation cycle.

Game developer litteraly tells you to temper your expectations for number of newcomers, then two months before release there has to be more than just a few characters.

But it IS a vocal minority.

Yes there are going to be quite some individuals who will be saltier than the dead sea.

But the majority won't get disappointed with a Triple AAA game because of some stupid cardboard.

Just look at how well Ridley, K. Rool and Simon were received.

This is what I meant. The majority of people will love the game and even those who are salty at first will get over it within months.

It's not gunna be the end of the world, not even the end of the Smash community.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Yea people who pointed out that Sakurai was clearly lying or just trying to set us up for big reveals and suprises when he said "We hope you weren't expecting too many challengers" are what cause the problems in the speculation cycle.

Game developer litteraly tells you to temper your expectations for number of newcomers, then two months before release there has to be more than just a few characters.

This is what I meant. The majority of people will love the game and even those who are salty at first will get over it within months.

It's not gunna be the end of the world, not even the end of the Smash community.

I want to believe that, I really do, but considering what community we’re talking about, I can’t.

 

[Deleted member]

I think there was also a Shin Onigushuma (sp) trophy?

Yeah, there was.

Spoiler

I may not like playing Melee anymore, but I feel like Melee has the best trophy selection, sense most of the models were custom made and represent all parts of Nintendo's history. Every game since has relied on there being existing models for trophies (for perfectly legitimate reasons I have to say).

 

[pupNapoleon]

Honestly, to be blunt, this community has issues with expectations and not appreciating what we’re actually being given here.

This isn’t to say you should shut up and accept whatever is given to you, quite the opposite. You should voice your displeasures.

However...just because one character is or isn’t in the game doesn’t mean that we should be crapping all over it. The tribalism that occurs over characters for his is fascinating. If you support one thing over another, you’re a fanboy or just “wrong”. If you like something I don’t like, then “shut up”.

Like i’m not saying this as if I haven’t done it in the past. We have to remember the entire fanbase is split across several age generations, genders, races, what have you, and expectations are therefore different.

We have people who are trying to make a point that...POTENTIALLY... there aren’t many characters left. This shouldn’t be something that is hard to grasp. It is an inference based on an observation.

The response has mostly been, “There’s no way that’s it. You’re wrong and dumb for even thinking that”. However, there are several reasons why it’s not dumb, and could very well be right. People are ****ting on it because they aren’t listening to Sakurai, as usual, and don’t want to hear something that wouldn’t bode well for their prospective new main.

Now, i’m not trying to say the community altogether is toxic. There are some really great users. I myself am looking to be more involved in the community after Ultimate releases. However, at this stage in the speculation cycle, it’s only going to get worse once the final bit of info comes out.

People are going to be rabid and angry no matter what because the speculation community is insatiable, mainly when it comes to characters. It’s as if nothing else matters. They could add the coolest story mode on top of the already massive 75 CHARACTER ROSTER and still be pissed off that their one most wanted didn’t get in.

It’s not Sakurais fault that you’re disappointed when you decided to not listen to what he said, and deliberately believe he was lying. It is the fault of the community for not having reasonable expectations, and not finding a way to enjoy what they have.

I used to be the person who was salty when certain things didn’t go my way. Once I went with the flow and FOUND WAYS TO ENJOY THINGS, life became much easier.

The Smash fanbase could learn something from that. Or, they’ll just go back to flaming people for liking something that they don’t.

I agree with much of this... as far as the base game is concerned, that is.
I cannot fathom a world where we do not get DLC for a long while.
Is it possible we do not? Sure. Is it possible the game gets delayed indefinitely? Also a possibility.
Neither is probable.

 

[Frostwraith]

I love how being a Roy Echo makes his moveset look closer to Lucina's, like they should be.

Yep, Chrom's moveset basically does to Roy's moveset what Lucina's moveset does to Marth's moveset.

Takes the same attributes, but removes the tipper mechanics. Marth and Roy are mechanically quite different from each other besides the reversing tippers aspect, so now, both characters have an easier version that removes the tippers for a more streamlined damage output.

Seeing as Marth and Roy were the first Fire Emblem characters that had major exposure to Western audiences and helped generate interest in the series that had been Japan-only at the time, it eventually led to the release of Awakening, which solidified FE as one of Nintendo's major IPs with Chrom and Lucina both being recognizable and iconic characters at this point like how Marth and Roy were the faces of the franchise at the time of Melee's release.

And one more detail: in the same way that Awakening served as a gateway to the FE series for many people, partially due to being a more accessible game, so are Chrom and Lucina more accessible versions of Roy and Marth's movesets in Smash, and players can choose to make the jump into these characters if they feel like going for a higher risk, bigger reward approach, much like how many FE fans that started with Awakening went to try the more challenging older games.

It really comes full circle if you think well enough about it. There are some interesting parallels, although not necessarily intentional.

 

[Q-Long]

I think I've had some sour experiences with fans of pretty much every character, except Isaac fans for some reason, his fanbase is very down to earth from my experience.

The most annoying thing is this:

X characters gets in (Isabelle, Palutena, Greninja, etc.)
Y Fanbase makes reacts negatively (Isaac, Ridley, Bandana Dee, etc.)

70% Damn, that stinks. Wish it was the character I wanted.
20% Meh, I'll check them out though.
8% I'm genuinely confused why they're in but not my character, oh well.
2%: WHAT? PALUTENA!? SCREW THIS (Usually these people cool down after a week)

Then there are people who just come along condescendingly and group the 98% with the 2% I mentioned at the end. Its like they need a group of people to feel smug and superior to. I have no idea what to call them, but they love to mention being excited for ____-tears. Tear-idiots?

When Takamaru was deconfirmed in Smash 4 I saw this. "Haha I'm going to love seeing all the butthurt Takamaru fanboy tears"

... What fanbase? Its pretty dead. I bet they saw one guy complain and latched onto it so they could feel all high and mighty.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm sure we have discussed the leak with Stanley the Bugman, yes?

 

[SvartWolf]

i Think that mach rider could be ripe for a revive (as a game I mean) easily a simple yet complex arcade-like experience with mad max inspirations and a samus like protagonist would IMO resonate better now than... a red blob with an awkward way of moving...

I don't want to piss on Stanley supporters (they do exist... right?) but Stanley feels like the kind of character i would put into an hype fake leak to simulate the dissapointment feeling of the end roster, rather than a retro pick that actually makes a point.

 

[Q-Long]

Yeah, there was.

Spoiler

View attachment 165665

I may not like playing Melee anymore, but I feel like Melee has the best trophy selection, sense most of the models were custom made and represent all parts of Nintendo's history. Every game since has relied on there being existing models for trophies (for perfectly legitimate reasons I have to say).

I think this is why I didn't read trophies as much in Brawl and Smash 4. They definitely have legitmate reasons not to spend time making models for trophies instead of characters, stages, etc.

The trophies in Melee gave me this sense of mystery and history as a kid. It made me very curious about all of these games and characters. I hope kids playing Brawl, Smash 4, and now Ultimate get the same feeling.

Additionally, Sakurai should hint his next reboot by making a character trophy a unique model in Ultimate. :b

 

[pupNapoleon]

I tend to like retro characters- they appear much more interesting to me, in part because a lot of older games needed to be even more stylized to create unique characters.
I'd prefer DK jr to Stanley, but a character based in the original Donkey Kong trilogy seems.... odd to not have already gotten.
I'm team Balloon Fighter all the way, but I would take all of them. Well... not two motorcyclists, unless they become echoes.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

The most annoying thing is this:

X characters gets in (Isabelle, Palutena, Greninja, etc.)
Y Fanbase makes reacts negatively (Isaac, Ridley, Bandana Dee, etc.)

70% Damn, that stinks. Wish it was the character I wanted.
20% Meh, I'll check them out though.
8% I'm genuinely confused why they're in but not my character, oh well.
2%: WHAT? PALUTENA!? SCREW THIS (Usually these people cool down after a week)

Then there are people who just come along condescendingly and group the 98% with the 2% I mentioned at the end. Its like they need a group of people to feel smug and superior to. I have no idea what to call them, but they love to mention being excited for ____-tears. Tear-idiots?

When Takamaru was deconfirmed in Smash 4 I saw this. "Haha I'm going to love seeing all the butthurt Takamaru fanboy tears"

... What fanbase? Its pretty dead. I bet they saw one guy complain and latched onto it so they could feel all high and mighty.

If you give certain fanbases a break simply because there are only a few toxic people in them, then I’m afraid you’ve missed the point entirely. While you are right to an extent, you cannot simply dismiss all garbage behavior as “vocal minority”
At the same time though, I will agree that generalizing an entire group of people is how witch hunts start.

 

[Pakky]

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

View attachment 165659

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

Wow that's good!.

Is the boob window even that bad?

I think she's cute! Is this the same one with the gun or is that someone else?

Either way I think it would be super neat to have her on the bike all the time or if she was a + type that just summons a bike in smash attacks kind like but frequently.