Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Well... Today I had the unfortunate experience of talking about some Smash theory with my friends who are hardcore Skull Kids and Geno supporters.
Never in my life I saw them discrediting a leak that quickly like Vergeben's or spitting on the Music Theory...

Did that kind of things happened to you too? A bad experience with some kind of fans?
They're not a majority but they're such a toxic and vocal minority that it stain the image of others fans... The worst being that I'm happy if any Characters get in, and while Sora is now my Number One (that was ironic until I talk about KH's relevance with people in that topic) I wouldn't go as far as discrediting leaks or ****alking Characters because there proof against my fav.

That's kind of the smash community with the box theory, and to a lesser extent the music theory etc. The short is no one wants to hear bad news, and I think Skull Kid fans (me included) have it pretty bad because for a good month Skull Kid was considered in the game. Was anyone around here for the "Boring Four"? I don't think anyone is considering those 4 100% anymore.

I just hate it when those fans take it out on the people just trying to speculate, theorize etc. as if it's our fault your favorite character might not get in. It's also why theories such as the blog update count one get so much traction, because despite that there isn't much to it, it promises more newcomers and is more hyping.

I get that, just wish people weren't rude/mean towards people who are settling and trying to set lower expectations.

 

[AzureFlame4]

It'd be funny if it turns out that Gardevoir leak from way back was real. I would love to see the ensuing chaos from that.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Who are the "boring four"?

 

[ThatOneAnon]

That's kind of the smash community with the box theory, and to a lesser extent the music theory etc. The short is no one wants to hear bad news, and I think Skull Kid fans (me included) have it pretty bad because for a good month Skull Kid was considered in the game. Was anyone around her for the "Boring Four"? I don't think anyone is considering those 4 100% anymore.

I just hate it when those fans take it out on the people just trying to speculate, theorize etc. as if it's our fault your favorite character might not get in. It's also why theories such as the blog update count one get so much traction, because despite that there isn't much to it, it promises more newcomers and is more hyping.

I get that, just wish people weren't rude/mean towards people who are settling and trying to set lower expectations.

I’m slowly beginning to realize what’s going to happen to Smash Bros. if the music theory or box theory is true. I honestly doubt the community will ever be the same. There would be literally nothing to calm the bitterness and salt. Even if fan favorite characters got in later as DLC, all that would happen is that their fans would find something to complain about with them, like how their trailers aren’t CGI or something

 

[Deleted member]

This is where I'd love to be able to time skip a few months forward. Pretty over waiting. Just wanna play.

Re-read One Piece. That should take up like 90% of the time.

Who are the "boring four"?

That's a matter of opinion. Unless you're making this a 'game' and asking which 4 do people consider the 'boring 4' for them personally. In which case for me, it would be:
1) Wii Fit Trainer
2) Marth/Lucina
3) Duckhunt Dog
4) Kirby

*Before I'm killed for saying 'Kirby' is boring, its not that I dislike these characters; I just don't care to play them. Kirby's got a nice 'mimic' mechanic and all, but I just don't care to play him or any of the other mentioend characters, so for me personally, they're boring in the sense that I don't like playing them.

 

[Deleted member]

It'd be funny if it turns out that Gardevoir leak from way back was real. I would love to see the ensuing chaos from that.

I’d start to worry that my game would crumble to dust if I tried to prove I own a copy.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Who are the "boring four"?

I Think he's Referring to the characters that Vergeben Leaked, Meaning
Isabelle
Ken
Incineroar
Square Enix Rep (Highly Speculated to be Geno)
Personally, I don't find them boring at all. In fact, they might be the most hype inducing additions for me...

 

[AzureFlame4]

Who are the "boring four"?

They were Skull Kid, Geno, Isaac and Incineroar. (Guest starring Banjo for the boring five)

 

[osby]

I’m slowly beginning to realize what’s going to happen to Smash Bros. if the music theory or box theory is true. I honestly doubt the community will ever be the same. There would be literally nothing to calm the bitterness and salt. Even if fan favorite characters got in later as DLC, all that would happen is that their fans would find something to complain about with them, like how their trailers aren’t CGI or something

It's kinda happening right now. Just look at all the people hating on Isabelle because her trailer or she "stole" the place of fan-favourites by being promotion or something.

At least we now don't have to worry about the worst fanbases but still it's going to be annoying seeing a lot of fans making an U-turn about the game.

 

[Zinith]

I had no idea there was even a "boring four." Shows you how much attention I was paying...

 

[AzureFlame4]

I had no idea there was even a "boring four." Shows you how much attention I was paying...

They were just the characters that were in every leak after the 8.8 direct.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I'm so happy some people aren't game developers.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The most toxic thing I’ve seen in the fan base is a guy handling a GameCube controller with his toes.

****ing toxic.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Who are the "boring four"?

Re-read One Piece. That should take up like 90% of the time.


That's a matter of opinion. Unless you're making this a 'game' and asking which 4 do people consider the 'boring 4' for them personally. In which case for me, it would be:
1) Wii Fit Trainer
2) Marth/Lucina
3) Duckhunt Dog
4) Kirby

*Before I'm killed for saying 'Kirby' is boring, its not that I dislike these characters; I just don't care to play them. Kirby's got a nice 'mimic' mechanic and all, but I just don't care to play him or any of the other mentioend characters, so for me personally, they're boring in the sense that I don't like playing them.

I Think he's Referring to the characters that Vergeben Leaked, Meaning
Isabelle
Ken
Incineroar
Square Enix Rep (Highly Speculated to be Geno)
Personally, I don't find them boring at all. In fact, they might be the most hype inducing additions for me...

They were Skull Kid, Geno, Isaac and Incineroar. (Guest starring Banjo for the boring five)

What Azure said.

There was a day or two where we all joked about who the 4 most predictable characters were. Not boring in the sense of why have them here but boring as in many assumed they were guaranteed.

That was a huge mistake of the smash community.

I’m slowly beginning to realize what’s going to happen to Smash Bros. if the music theory or box theory is true. I honestly doubt the community will ever be the same. There would be literally nothing to calm the bitterness and salt. Even if fan favorite characters got in later as DLC, all that would happen is that their fans would find something to complain about with them, like how their trailers aren’t CGI or something

Sorry but you are way overreacting.

Many are already super pleased with the roster, so no not having Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno etc. is not going to ruin the game or community. I can almost guarantee it will be better than what happened with the ESRB and 4.

Now will there be people who are salty yea, will they be a vocal minority maybe. But this game isn't going to ruin the community or anything. Not any longer than a day or two.

 

[Zinith]

I'm so happy some people aren't game developers.

Yes, verily...

 

[Nekoo]

I'm so happy some people aren't game developers.

"Have you ever made a game" - greatest quote of Samurai before Senpukku.

 

[NintenRob]

It's a shame a lot of the Skull Kid hype has died down, I mean we still have his missing assist, Mii costume and a new assist from the same game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

"Have you ever made a game" - greatest quote of Samurai before Senpukku.

The thumbs up after is what really made this moment.

 

[BlueMagician]

I heard Tod Howard had a meeting with Sakurai

HMMMMMM

Also I never understood: Is Mach Rider from F-Zero?

Mach Rider is from the NES game Mach Rider, and no other game. She was almost in Captain Rainbow though.

 

[Deleted member]

I Think he's Referring to the characters that Vergeben Leaked, Meaning
Isabelle
Ken
Incineroar
Square Enix Rep (Highly Speculated to be Geno)
Personally, I don't find them boring at all. In fact, they might be the most hype inducing additions for me...

Those were the boring 4? Wow. Shows the difference in opinion lol. I would love for Incineroar and a Square rep to be confirmed (meh for Ken lol). Keeping fingers crossed for really anything but Geno (sure he'd be ok, but...) like FF, Octopath, Chrono Trigger, or DQ.

EDIT: Oh, it was Skull Kid instead of Isabelle? Even better.

 

[Pyra]

It's a shame a lot of the Skull Kid hype has died down, I mean we still have his missing assist, Mii costume and a new assist from the same game.

Honestly, I would be ecstatic even if he just made it in as a boss.

 

[Nekoo]

It's a shame a lot of the Skull Kid hype has died down, I mean we still have his missing assist, Mii costume and a new assist from the same game.

Hey.
At least he's not like Isaac.
Who just disappeared from the surface of Earth between Brawl and Smash4.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Mach Rider is from the NES game Mach Rider, and no other game. She was almost in Captain Rainbow though.

Wait... She?
Is Mach Rider a She?

 

[Zinith]

I'm too tired to think about what I'm posting...

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Honestly, I would be ecstatic even if he just made it in as a boss.

I'm pretty sure that is exactly what is happening...

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It's a shame a lot of the Skull Kid hype has died down, I mean we still have his missing assist, Mii costume and a new assist from the same game.

Agreed.

Despite theories things still look in his favor. Worse than not having Skull Kid would be not getting a new Zelda rep AGAIN. Hoping we at least get an Impa echo.

Those were the boring 4? Wow. Shows the difference in opinion lol. I would love for Incineroar and a Square rep to be confirmed (meh for Ken lol). Keeping fingers crossed for really anything but Geno (sure he'd be ok, but...) like FF, Octopath, Chrono Trigger, or DQ.

That's not the "boring 4". Chack my earlier post and Azure's.

Also boring as in predictable. But that changed too lol.

 

[NintenRob]

Hey.
At least he's not like Isaac.
Who just disappeared from the surface of Earth between Brawl and Smash4.

But at least talk and hype about seems stronger than ever.

With Skull Kid, some leaker turns out to be a fraud and a lot of people seem to be writing him off now like that's all he had going for him.


Oh well.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The reason the Smash fanbase can be so nasty sometimes is that it's an amalgamation of several different fanbases, each with separate likes and dislikes. Everyone in this community has biases, but some people aren't self aware about it. If someone loves Bubsy the Bobcat but has never played Animal Crossing, they might think that Isabelle is just a waste of resources because it doesn't directly appeal to them because they aren't open minded enough to respect that there's a ton of Isabelle fans out there. Instead they might type up reasons why they love their game and insist that Bubsy is more "deserving". Worst of all they'll act like Bubsy 3D is an objectively better game when actuality, what makes a good game or not is 100% subjective (maybe Bubsy is a bad example).

However, it's really important to remember they're the minority. Lots of people have preferences but won't be bothered if Smash Bros introduces characters they didn't ask for. The majority of Smash fans are actually pretty open minded about the nature of the crossover and are willing to accept anyone with a fun design or unique moves. Why else do you think Captain Falcon is a fan favorite? It's certainly not because F-Zero is Nintendo's most popular best-selling franchise, that's for sure. And it's not just because he's an N64 veteran either - Ike is another example of a character who gets the majority of his popularity from Smash Bros.

The toxic portion of the community, as with most fanbases, are just a vocal minority. They stand out from the crowd because of their toxicity and hostile enthusiasm, but that's just simply because obnoxious people who anger or disturb you are more likely to leave a lasting impression then a polite ones who keep things calm. The vast majority of players are willing to just take the game at false value and enjoy it for what it has to offer, not what it doesn't. Don't let the haters get to you, and more importantly, keep your own biases in check and don't become a hater yourself.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Well... Today I had the unfortunate experience of talking about some Smash theory with my friends who are hardcore Skull Kids and Geno supporters.
Never in my life I saw them discrediting a leak that quickly like Vergeben's or spitting on the Music Theory...

Did that kind of things happened to you too? A bad experience with some kind of fans?
They're not a majority but they're such a toxic and vocal minority that it stain the image of others fans... The worst being that I'm happy if any Characters get in, and while Sora is now my Number One (that was ironic until I talk about KH's relevance with people in that topic) I wouldn't go as far as discrediting leaks or ****alking Characters because there proof against my fav.

Had it with K. Rool fans during the ESRB leak in Sm4sh, Geno fans when R.O.B. was revealed.

I never experienced Ridley but all large fanbase are going to have a few bad apples.

 

[Soulsaint]

That happened to me a couple days ago..., Funnily enough it was a Skull Kid Fan... Why are they so Toxic? Skull Kid's fan base seems to be the only one to get really mad, when the Veregeben and Music Theories are discussed...

Okay, hold your horses!

Let's not pretend only Skull Kid supporters are toxic. From what I have seen here, a lot of people are. They are from all walks of life and supporters for all kinds of characters. Let's not forget about how much salt Isabelle had to sweep up when she was revealed. Nor how many people are attacked in general for (not)liking a certain character.

Edit: thanks again Noipole for that lovely picture

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Honestly, to be blunt, this community has issues with expectations and not appreciating what we’re actually being given here.

This isn’t to say you should shut up and accept whatever is given to you, quite the opposite. You should voice your displeasures.

However...just because one character is or isn’t in the game doesn’t mean that we should be crapping all over it. The tribalism that occurs over characters for his is fascinating. If you support one thing over another, you’re a fanboy or just “wrong”. If you like something I don’t like, then “shut up”.

Like i’m not saying this as if I haven’t done it in the past. We have to remember the entire fanbase is split across several age generations, genders, races, what have you, and expectations are therefore different.

We have people who are trying to make a point that...POTENTIALLY... there aren’t many characters left. This shouldn’t be something that is hard to grasp. It is an inference based on an observation.

The response has mostly been, “There’s no way that’s it. You’re wrong and dumb for even thinking that”. However, there are several reasons why it’s not dumb, and could very well be right. People are ****ting on it because they aren’t listening to Sakurai, as usual, and don’t want to hear something that wouldn’t bode well for their prospective new main.

Now, i’m not trying to say the community altogether is toxic. There are some really great users. I myself am looking to be more involved in the community after Ultimate releases. However, at this stage in the speculation cycle, it’s only going to get worse once the final bit of info comes out.

People are going to be rabid and angry no matter what because the speculation community is insatiable, mainly when it comes to characters. It’s as if nothing else matters. They could add the coolest story mode on top of the already massive 75 CHARACTER ROSTER and still be pissed off that their one most wanted didn’t get in.

It’s not Sakurais fault that you’re disappointed when you decided to not listen to what he said, and deliberately believe he was lying. It is the fault of the community for not having reasonable expectations, and not finding a way to enjoy what they have.

I used to be the person who was salty when certain things didn’t go my way. Once I went with the flow and FOUND WAYS TO ENJOY THINGS, life became much easier.

The Smash fanbase could learn something from that. Or, they’ll just go back to flaming people for liking something that they don’t.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

FTFY.

Nah ***** it’s Shadow and a Kid Icarus character (Hades/Viridi/Medusa/...Pandora), un”fixed” that ****

Isn't Sonic still having games on other platforms?

Not that I'm trying to belittle his connection with Nintendo but "practically a Nintendo franchise" applies more to Bayonetta rather than Sonic.

Yeah, but the console war + most of his games being on Nintendo + the secret relationship he had with Birdo = better connection

Bayo has yet to get down with a Nintendo character so Sonic > Bayonetta

 

[BluePikmin11]

But at least talk and hype about seems stronger than ever.

With Skull Kid, some leaker turns out to be a fraud and a lot of people seem to be writing him off now like that's all he had going for him.


Oh well.

Those people aren't good speculators at all.

I still have faith for Skull Kid.

 

[Deleted member]

"Have you ever made a game" - greatest quote of Samurai before Senpukku.

This is why Sakurai and Kamiya are friends

 

[BlueMagician]

Wait... She?
Is Mach Rider a She?

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

 

[CosmicQuark]

When it comes to the boring 4, if they are the ones Verge leaked, it's subjective but that's pretty much the case for me personally. But I've already set my expectations that this might be the first Smash game where I have never played a game with a unique newcomer. It's disappointing, but that's what happens with a limited roster, some fans will be unlucky. Glad for the fans that do get theirs in.

 

[Pazzo.]

The moment that will go down in history...

Smash Fan: Sakurai, 1v1 me bro!

Sakurai: Do you even game develop? Get on my level, scrub. *Plays doubles, one hand for each controller*

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Honestly, to be blunt, this community has issues with expectations and not appreciating what we’re actually being given here.

This isn’t to say you should shut up and accept whatever is given to you, quite the opposite. You should voice your displeasures.

However...just because one character is or isn’t in the game doesn’t mean that we should be crapping all over it. The tribalism that occurs over characters for his is fascinating. If you support one thing over another, you’re a fanboy or just “wrong”. If you like something I don’t like, then “shut up”.

Like i’m not saying this as if I haven’t done it in the past. We have to remember the entire fanbase is split across several age generations, genders, races, what have you, and expectations are therefore different.

We have people who are trying to make a point that...POTENTIALLY... there aren’t many characters left. This shouldn’t be something that is hard to grasp. It is an inference based on an observation.

The response has mostly been, “There’s no way that’s it. You’re wrong and dumb for even thinking that”. However, there are several reasons why it’s not dumb, and could very well be right. People are ****ting on it because they aren’t listening to Sakurai, as usual, and don’t want to hear something that wouldn’t bode well for their prospective new main.

Now, i’m not trying to say the community altogether is toxic. There are some really great users. I myself am looking to be more involved in the community after Ultimate releases. However, at this stage in the speculation cycle, it’s only going to get worse once the final bit of info comes out.

People are going to be rabid and angry no matter what because the speculation community is insatiable, mainly when it comes to characters. It’s as if nothing else matters. They could add the coolest story mode on top of the already massive 75 CHARACTER ROSTER and still be pissed off that their one most wanted didn’t get in.

It’s not Sakurais fault that you’re disappointed when you decided to not listen to what he said, and deliberately believe he was lying. It is the fault of the community for not having reasonable expectations, and not finding a way to enjoy what they have.

I used to be the person who was salty when certain things didn’t go my way. Once I went with the flow and FOUND WAYS TO ENJOY THINGS, life became much easier.

The Smash fanbase could learn something from that. Or, they’ll just go back to flaming people for liking something that they don’t.

This community will never learn and the people telling me I’m overestimating the backlash if the recent theories are true are quite honestly naive. And don’t give me that “oh it’s a vocal minority” bull ****. That’s no excuse.

 

[Pazzo.]

Yes. See for yourself.

Spoiler: Big picture from Hi-Score magazine

View attachment 165659

Picture taken from here

Nintendo sent this pic of her to Hi-Score magazine back in 1986.

This in-game sprite is rather deceptive then.

 

[Sharkarat]

Wait... She?
Is Mach Rider a She?

Mach Rider's arcade game had an ending screen where it's unclear if it's unarmored Mach Rider or a rescued survivor.