Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Light suit is my second favourite so tha

Light and Dark suits would be my second choice so that works out

Urgh not the fusion suit it’s so flimsy and ugly I wish it’d just go away

I don't really mind what she gets as long as Samus has some sort of costume, she has the most costume potential out of the entire cast except like Link and Shulk and yet she still doesn't have one smh

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Man this kind of smug attitude is what turns me off from this thread sometimes.

And this is from someone who's on team box more than not.

Look, I'm a scientist at the end of the day. A question like who "should" be in the game is a matter of opinion. A question of who actually is in the game is a question of fact. It's smug to believe your opinion is the only valid one. It's just being real to acknowledge that we have some set of evidence, there's best theories, and that denying those is just choosing to be more wrong than you have to be. It's flat out aggravating to see people intermixing their beliefs about what they want to happen (their opinions) with their analysis of what they think will happen (their interpretation of fact); these two things by logic should have absolutely zero connection. The analysis of the box is really solid, and it has just plainly no connection to updated renders for three characters. I see people just... constantly grasping at straws trying to find some reason not to "have to" believe what the evidence suggests, and that's just not how reality works. You stick to what the evidence suggests until something new comes along, and you never believe anything just because it sounds nice (if anything, something sounding nice is reason to be a little skeptical). I'm actually trying to help people out by shooting them down now; it's better for them to be let down now instead of later on a date where they should be able to dedicate 100% of their mental energies to actually enjoying playing Smash Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Been meaning to ask you.

When our boy gets announced can I challenge you to a mirror match?

Sure. A fight between Tigers is always a treat.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Direct is announced but doesn't give a predetermined time for the direct

Everybody gets hype and prepared for it all

Sakurai shows up immediately. And we get all excited.

Then the english translation over Sakurai's voice says. "The game is canceled. Good bye. *bows*" And then it ends.

But as it turns out, Sakurai actually said, "the game is being released today," and the English translation screws it up.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Dude has hairy eyes

That's a weird dumb aesthetic choice that I see in anime from time to time. Don't know what the deal with it is.

 

[Pakky]

Sure. A fight between Tigers is always a treat.

A man of culture! This will be great!

Also Pyra are we still doing that tourney?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Sure. A fight between Tigers is always a treat.

Your other favorite Pokemon is a better choice for a Smash character.

Don't @ me.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I don't really mind what she gets as long as Samus has some sort of costume, she has the most costume potential out of the entire cast except like Link and Shulk and yet she still doesn't have one smh

I just want proper SR versions of both. they both look way better there than in Ultimate

 

[Deleted member]

WHY IS THIS!?!?!

*deep sigh*

****!

Because I've been telling you Ike is an LGBT icon.

The taunts and win poses for Olimar happen to work well with Alph since they're kind of generic and don't really tell much about either of their personalities.


Wrong.

Sakurai said the reason they got separated was because they came up with gameplay differences during the game's development and had time to implement them, making them a quick affair as they only got balanced relative to their counterparts rather than the whole roster.


And even then, the Dark Pit Staff was copypasted from Zelda's Light Arrow, down to having the exact same damage and knockback output.

The animation of Dark Pit using the staff even looks kind of sloppy, so it has "rush job" written all over it.

It really doesn't matter how "rushed" or copied DP's FS is, all Alph needed was a model swap from the Hocotate to his own ship which has a model in the game.

If Olimar had multiple alts for multiple Pikmin characters like Bowser Jr.? Sure, I could understand not making Alph an Echo but when he's the only one, it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

And Alph's persinality is much more different and none of Olimar's facial expressions work on him. Olimar has the Eyes Always Shut which means they don't need to animate his eyes but with Alph it just looks terrible because he never blinks or change his expression even though he does it all the time in Pikmin 3

 

[Frostwraith]

That is actually why I think it is unfitting.
Both Alph and Olimar have pretty immediate personalities in the game. They get little air time, and it is filled with humor.

I'm sure that if we had got Alph as an echo, that Sakurai would've given him some more unique animations for him to stand out more.

But as they are right now, the animations are simply very generic and basic as it's been pointed out.

And I guess that, considering their Japanese name being "Pikmin & Olimar/Alph", thus putting the focus on the Pikmin reminds me of Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings.

Bowser Jr.'s moveset is centered on the Clown Car more so on the innate abilities Bowser Jr. may have. Likewise, the animations he has for taunts and win poses are generic enough to work well with the Koopalings.

Taking this in consideration and how the focus of Olimar/Alph is the Pikmin, it seems to be a similar case. The focus of the character and the moveset is the Pikmin, but they need someone commanding them. Olimar and Alph, being the main protagonists of Pikmin 1/2 and Pikmin 3 respectively, fill that role since that's primarily what they do in the game.

A Red Pikmin is still a Red Pikmin regardless of who's throwing it, after all.

Sure, this leads to oddities such as the Koopalings transforming into Shadow Mario (although that's basically the power of the magic paintbrush rather than a Bowser Jr. specific thing) and Alph using Olimar's ship, but those are minor things.

Had Dark Pit not had the convenience of being able to borrow the mechanics of Zelda's Light Arrow for his Dark Pit Staff Final Smash, he probably could have remained a costume for Pit, but I guess we'll never know.

 

[monadoboy]

Seeing this makes me pretty sad that she isn't the default. But Corrin is the biggest travesty, his male form has like 4 fans (and I'm one of them)

Defaults should be male Robin and female Corrin, both are, for some reason, way more popular than their counterpart. Going off the first CYL results, male Robin is 16, female Robin 24, while male Corrin is 41 and female Corrin 9. That's how they did it in Warriors, too.

 

[CosmicQuark]

People can live in denial if they want I guess, they can even cling to an obvious typo by some random Corocoro staff writer who doesn't know anything, but the evidence all points one way whether you want to see it or not.

Look, I'm a scientist at the end of the day. A question like who "should" be in the game is a matter of opinion. A question of who actually is in the game is a question of fact. It's smug to believe your opinion is the only valid one. It's just being real to acknowledge that we have some set of evidence, there's best theories, and that denying those is just choosing to be more wrong than you have to be. It's flat out aggravating to see people intermixing their beliefs about what they want to happen (their opinions) with their analysis of what they think will happen (their interpretation of fact); these two things by logic should have absolutely zero connection. The analysis of the box is really solid, and it has just plainly no connection to updated renders for three characters. I see people just... constantly grasping at straws trying to find some reason not to "have to" believe what the evidence suggests, and that's just not how reality works. You stick to what the evidence suggests until something new comes along, and you never believe anything just because it sounds nice (if anything, something sounding nice is reason to be a little skeptical). I'm actually trying to help people out by shooting them down now; it's better for them to be let down now instead of later on a date where they should be able to dedicate 100% of their mental energies to actually enjoying playing Smash Ultimate.

If you were a good scientist, you would know what the definition of evidence is. And it's not a placeholder image.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Defaults should be male Robin and female Corrin

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

 

[Deleted member]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

Uh...isn't Corrin also an avatar character that you get to choose the gender for? Female Corrin's the default in Warriors as well.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

This ain’t it chief

Corrin’s an avatar too

 

[pupNapoleon]

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

From a marketing standpoint- a delay.
Other than a direct cancellation.

From a fan standpoint, I would say losing Sakurai, particularly if it were his health.

So... I'm pretty sure we are good to go on none of these happening.

 

[BlueMagician]

I was about to suggest shirtless Link and Gerudo Link, but now I have to look if his moveset allows for that

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm sure that if we had got Alph as an echo, that Sakurai would've given him some more unique animations for him to stand out more.

But as they are right now, the animations are simply very generic and basic as it's been pointed out.

And I guess that, considering their Japanese name being "Pikmin & Olimar/Alph", thus putting the focus on the Pikmin reminds me of Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings.

Bowser Jr.'s moveset is centered on the Clown Car more so on the innate abilities Bowser Jr. may have. Likewise, the animations he has for taunts and win poses are generic enough to work well with the Koopalings.

Taking this in consideration and how the focus of Olimar/Alph is the Pikmin, it seems to be a similar case. The focus of the character and the moveset is the Pikmin, but they need someone commanding them. Olimar and Alph, being the main protagonists of Pikmin 1/2 and Pikmin 3 respectively, fill that role since that's primarily what they do in the game.

A Red Pikmin is still a Red Pikmin regardless of who's throwing it, after all.

Sure, this leads to oddities such as the Koopalings transforming into Shadow Mario (although that's basically the power of the magic paintbrush rather than a Bowser Jr. specific thing) and Alph using Olimar's ship, but those are minor things.

Had Dark Pit not had the convenience of being able to borrow the mechanics of Zelda's Light Arrow for his Dark Pit Staff Final Smash, he probably could have remained a costume for Pit, but I guess we'll never know.

If Dark Pit is separate because of his Final Smash, so should be Alph. It is an identical comparison.

If you were a good scientist, you would know what the definition of evidence is. And it's not a placeholder image.

Fixed

 

[Frostwraith]

It really doesn't matter how "rushed" or copied DP's FS is, all Alph needed was a model swap from the Hocotate to his own ship which has a model in the game.

If Olimar had multiple alts for multiple Pikmin characters like Bowser Jr.? Sure, I could understand not making Alph an Echo but when he's the only one, it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

And Alph's persinality is much more different and none of Olimar's facial expressions work on him. Olimar has the Eyes Always Shut which means they don't need to animate his eyes but with Alph it just looks terrible because he never blinks or change his expression even though he does it all the time in Pikmin 3

It matters that Dark Pit's Final Smash is a rush job because it was done in little time. So little time there was no time to:
1. Give it unique properties, distinct from Zelda's Light Arrow, something even Sheik's Light Arrow has
2. Polish the animation, so it looks sloppy and stiff compared to the rest of the animation work put into the game that clearly has more flow and polish

Even if they're clones and heavily based on existing characters, echo fighters still take some work to do. Obviously, not as much as a full character, but it still takes development time and resources.

One big problem with Alph having his ship in the Final Smash is that the ship's shape is completely different from that of Olimar's ship, meaning they'd have to create a new model, animate it and program hitboxes on it and ensure the move flows as well.

They had to do the same with Dark Pit's Final Smash sure, but look at how sloppy that animation is, the Dark Pit Staff itself isn't animated, and for the move's data and hitbox, it's a straight up copy-paste from Zelda's Light Arrow, just with a different visual effect for the projectile that probably is made from other special effect assets anyway as it actually doesn't look any similar with the staff's projectiles in KIU.

And you're being obtuse enough to complain about Alph not blinking his eyes.

 

[Over9000BPM]

This ain’t it chief

Corrin’s an avatar too

Thank goodness, if that had been true, combined with how good Ike looks with his new eyeliner, I might have had to re-evaluate some things

 

[staindgrey]

Defaults should be male Robin and female Corrin, both are, for some reason, way more popular than their counterpart. Going off the first CYL results, male Robin is 16, female Robin 24, while male Corrin is 41 and female Corrin 9. That's how they did it in Warriors, too.

For Corrin, I honestly think it's just the effeminate character design and matching somewhat androgynous voice. Slim build, stylized hair, bare feet, all of that could be offputting to a guy to use as a player character. (Which is dumb, but I can totally see it.)

The general look for Corrin definitely caters more to a female appearance, IMO, while Robin's is arguably more masculine. I just got attached to female Robin because she was the first one I chose.

(Then on another playthrough I went with male Robin just so I could name him Chrom for this exchange.)

(Worth it.)

 

[Deleted member]

One big problem with Alph having his ship in the Final Smash is that the ship's shape is completely different from that of Olimar's ship, meaning they'd have to create a new model, animate it and program hitboxes on it and ensure the move flows as well.

Technically, a model for Alph's ship exists in the game already, it's in the background on Garden of Hope. Everything else here is correct.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

A massive delay ala Brawl.

Which i'm still pessimistic to believe will possibly happen.

 

[AlphaSSB]

The new renders are nice to see. Most of them look pretty good, too. Especially Meta Ridley.

Hopefully there will be other alts down the line that have yet to be revealed, but the newly shown Yoshi alt makes me unsure of this. Which could possibly mean no Brawl Wolf, King K. Rool outfits, etc.

Granted, we also don't have official artwork for Isabelle's winter outfit, so there may still be some yet to be seen. Not counting on it, though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I would like all these characters added and I believe they will be

I mean...wanting them added is fine, but realistically thinking we'll get 13 more before launch? I hope you're prepared for immense disappointment.

 

[Frostwraith]

Technically, a model for Alph's ship exists in the game already, it's in the background on Garden of Hope. Everything else here is correct.

Yes, but there's are a few issues with it:
1. The size. It definitely looks big, so they would need to adjust its size to fit with gameplay.
2. Both Pikmin stages have this blurry effect to them that probably would make the model unfit for using in gameplay without big edits.

 

[staindgrey]

I hope you're prepared for immense disappointment.

Always. It's how I live my life.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The renders I saw did not deconfirm box theory. All looked like alt costumes.

Shulk. Palutena. Falco.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ok so who's left? Based off everything, the addition of new villains for a heros vs villains, light vs dark, Sun and Moon theme Im sticking with my picks!

69. Incineroar ( Pokemon newcomer )
70. Square rep is Geno
60e. Ken added as a echo

^ Based of Verge's claims, but I have a few more I think are all in too.

54e. Medusa ( echo to Palutena )
17e. Hilda ( echo to Zelda )
38e. Shadow ( echo to Sonic )
36e. Dixie ( echo to Diddy )
14e. Dry Bowser ( echo to Bowser with Melee Giga Bowser moveset )
71. Isaac ( Golden Sun newcomer )
71e. Felix ( echo to Isaac )
72. Mona ( Warioware newcomer )
73. Elma ( Xenoblade newcomer )
74. Rhythm Girl with Chorus Kids / Ringside Reporter with Wrestler ( Rhythm Heaven newcomer )

I believe all these characters are All In and will be seen before the game launches in December.

I like your Choice for 74... I'd be happy with just that alone...

 

[Mutsukki]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

Why do people who have never played the game comment stuff like this

 

[monadoboy]

I was about to suggest shirtless Link and Gerudo Link, but now I have to look if his moveset allows for that

Why not? He can still do everything while in his boxers in BotW.

 

[staindgrey]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

Uhhhhhhhh...



...what?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why do people who have never played the game comment stuff like this

I would hands down play Fire Emblem if I could start as one gender and become another.
*That* would be interesting to me.

 

[DarkFalcon]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

Excuse me, but wat

 

[Frostwraith]

Why do people who have never played the game comment stuff like this

You answered your own question: because they haven't played the games or at least, haven't done enough research to know what they're talking about.

You know, like a significant portion of this fanbase.

 

[Exalt4747]

I prefer both Robin and Corrin as girls here just for the designs. I haven't played Fates and I played most of awakening with a male avatar, however.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

That doesn't make sense. Corrin is actually a male in his game, he just gets turned into a women for part of it. But with Robin, you actually get to choose if they're a male or female at character creation.

Uhhh... Never played Fates, But pretty sure, that doesn't happen at all...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This makes no logical sense at all. They had to release a render for every returning character when the site launched, and three of them were hastily done and just touched up (not redone, touched up). How does that possibly correlate to them showing the side of a box they had no reason at all to show and the somewhat obtuse design pattern being decoded to make clear implications? I'll answer you; it doesn't. It's just like 103 stages. People can live in denial if they want I guess, they can even cling to an obvious typo by some random Corocoro staff writer who doesn't know anything, but the evidence all points one way whether you want to see it or not.

Twice the pride, double the fall.

 

[Diddy Kong]

16e is the most obviously missing Echo at this point and we all know it.

I kinda do like the idea of Echoes being a somewhat easier accesable version of the main character honestly. This is why I always felt Lucina was a great concept of a character, being it as a full clone or not. She's genious addition in many ways.

This is why I also think a Sheik Echo in the form of Impa would be great. Cause Sheik, as her own character since Smash 4, is the most combo-orientated character on the roster. And having a less polarising version of said character on the roster would be ideal therefore. So yes, Impa would really be a ideal Echo in many ways.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but there's are a few issues with it:
1. The size. It definitely looks big, so they would need to adjust its size to fit with gameplay.
2. Both Pikmin stages have this blurry effect to them that probably would make the model unfit for using in gameplay without big edits.

Yeah, and as you mentioned, the shape of the ship is different which prevents it from being a clean replacement for the Dolphin. This hitbox would be too small or large depending on the ship used.

fwiw, here's the model without the blur effect.

I'm no artist, and it's been a while since I've played Pikmin 3, but I feel like you'd definitely want to animate the parts of it that don't exist on the Dolphin, which would create even more work.