Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[drag0nscythe]

This seems quite likely indeed! Thanks! This is quite reassuring.

Show me please

 

[Frostwraith]

Despite not believing the box theory (typical Smash fanbase conspiracy theory), I won't be upset is if turns out to be true.

I'm satisfied with the roster as is and I'm 99% confident there will be DLC.

And even if there isn't DLC, the roster is fantastic as is. No complaints from me.

 

[Koopaul]

Alph, on the other hand, I mean. What needs to be distinguished between him and Olimar? I'd love to have him as an echo for using different Pikmin, but character-wise, is there something drastically different Alph would do that Olimar wouldn't? And with the Koopalings, isn't the clown car really the character? Is there something significant that the other koopalings would do while sitting in it that Bowser Jr.'s animations misrepresents?

Sakurai gave those characters very basic animations that don't really showcase their distinct personalities. That way they could be alts. I suppose if Peach was a little less dainty graceful in her animations and acted like a generic girl in a dress, then maybe Daisy could be an alt.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So does anyone think all this means I might actually get the Samus/Zamus I want?

Also, if Ike wants to wear blue eyeliner he can go right ahead, looks kinda good on him imo.

I wouldn't get my hopes up since they're pretty much exactly the same design, and given the uproar a costume that only changes her breast and butt size would cause it's not really worth it

 

[Originality]

The taunts and win poses for Olimar happen to work well with Alph since they're kind of generic and don't really tell much about either of their personalities.


Wrong.

Sakurai said the reason they got separated was because they came up with gameplay differences during the game's development and had time to implement them, making them a quick affair as they only got balanced relative to their counterparts rather than the whole roster.


And even then, the Dark Pit Staff was copypasted from Zelda's Light Arrow, down to having the exact same damage and knockback output.

The animation of Dark Pit using the staff even looks kind of sloppy, so it has "rush job" written all over it.

Sure, then. But now? I really doubt Dark Samus got upgraded from a costume because Sakurai saw all the potential in a slightly different Samus kit

 

[pupNapoleon]

Imagine having a political climate so ****ing toxic that we’re comparing the president’s penis to a Nintendo character

I have an intense imagination.
But this one is real, folks.

 

[dezeray112]

I'm back.

Let's talk about DLC.

• How many characters do you think we're getting?
• Who do you think will be the first DLC character?
• Which character(s) do you think would cause the most hype, be it in the community or overall?
• What additional series/companies would you like to see represented as DLC or could see being represented as DLC?
• Do you think there'll be a focus on third party DLC or first party DLC, or a balance of the two?
• Who would you like to see as DLC?
• How do you think DLC will be structured?
• Will characters be sold in packs or separately? Will there be a season pass?
• Do you think we'll get more than just characters and stages (maybe more Mii Costumes, or a new class of purchasable items)?
• What are some potential character packs you can think of/would like to see?
• Do you think we might see new modes as DLC?
• Will you support DLC for this game? What would make you want to purchase it or not want to purchase it?

That should be enough questions. Hopefully it lasts us two pages. That'd sure be nice.

To answer some of the questions:

• How many characters do you think we're getting?

It depends on how much support the Sakurai and Nintendo have planned for Smash in which I am assuming it will get be supported after the game's launch. Anyways, I'm going to possibly say between 6-8 DLC characters but there maybe a potential for more.

• What additional series/companies would you like to see represented as DLC or could see being represented as DLC?

The series that I am most certain that are likely DLC candidates would be someone from ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2. As for companies that I would like to see being represnted as potential DLC, I could see the likes of SNK, Tecmo Koei, Atlus and so on being a part of this.

• Will you support DLC for this game? What would make you want to purchase it or not want to purchase it?

There are some DLC which had been done right and then there are some which had been done wrong. Personally, if a game is good, then I am willing to support DLC and so far Smash Ultimate is already shaping up to be a decent game and I hope they can keep it that way.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

These renders are irrefutable proof to me that the Box Theory is pretty much dead. Everyone was like, "why would they release the box render if it wasn't the completed design?" And yet, if they are still updating the renders for the characters, they can change the box art too.

This makes no logical sense at all. They had to release a render for every returning character when the site launched, and three of them were hastily done and just touched up (not redone, touched up). How does that possibly correlate to them showing the side of a box they had no reason at all to show and the somewhat obtuse design pattern being decoded to make clear implications? I'll answer you; it doesn't. It's just like 103 stages. People can live in denial if they want I guess, they can even cling to an obvious typo by some random Corocoro staff writer who doesn't know anything, but the evidence all points one way whether you want to see it or not.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I wouldn't get my hopes up since they're pretty much exactly the same design, and given the uproar a costume that only changes her breast and butt size would cause it's not really worth it

Don’t forget I want SR returns Varia/Gravity suit too

 

[Chrono.]

So where did these renders come from?

Press kits Nintendo sent out.

 

[Pakky]

At first I thought Giygas was silly to have on the roster then I remembered a TOY is a character in this game and felt foolish...

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Shulk, Falco, and Palutena's renders were updated months ago.

That's not really the point; it doesn't matter how long ago they were changed. It's the fact that the original renders were what we had believed to be the "final" renders of each of the characters, but even those have undergone changes. It just goes to show that the game itself is still under development and they can change whatever they want at the drop of a hat.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sure, then. But now? I really doubt Dark Samus got upgraded from a costume because Sakurai saw all the potential in a slightly different Samus kit

In other words, he found gameplay merits in doing a variant of Samus's moveset.

He found putting Daisy, Chrom and Dark Samus, who were all significantly more requested than Alph to be characters in Smash, a priority over making Alph an echo.

And honestly, Alph being an alt for Olimar is better than no Alph at all. At least, he's in the game as a playable character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Show me please

Don't ask me, ask the dude. Never thought much of the "Box theory" anyway.

 

[staindgrey]

These renders are irrefutable proof to me that the Box Theory is pretty much dead. Everyone was like, "why would they release the box render if it wasn't the completed design?" And yet, if they are still updating the renders for the characters, they can change the box art too.

*sigh* They didn't make all these renders just now. And these are almost entirely alts that wouldn't appear on the box anyw--

Y'know what. I'm done having this discussion. The game's coming out in two and a half months. We'll know the full roster before then. and people can get upset that it doesn't have 200 characters at that point.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Mona would be awesome, but I see Dixie Kong as more of a unique than an echo, after what we saw with Isabelle.

That would be kind if a waste, especially just for a up b in which she can just pull that from Donkey Kong.. Chrom did it with Ike and hes supposed to be Roy's echo so echos can do that.

Just replace the peanut gun with her sister Tiny's feather bow and turn a bunch of Diddy's attacks into hair whips and Dixie is good to go.. Oh and make her banana peel purple. and have her with a guitar taunt or victory pose.

Expecting 13 more characters in 3 months? I want what you're having please.

I would like all these characters added and I believe they will be

 

[staindgrey]

So does anyone think all this means I might actually get the Samus/Zamus I want?

Also, if Ike wants to wear blue eyeliner he can go right ahead, looks kinda good on him imo.

Still doubtful, particularly since the "rocket heels" are still a part of ZSS's gameplay.

Maybe we'll get a Prime era look for them though. Who knows.

 

[Q-Long]

Ahh yes, Sakurai's plan is working

 

[Chrono.]

People can live in denial if they want I guess, they can even cling to an obvious typo by some random Corocoro staff writer who doesn't know anything, but the evidence all points one way whether you want to see it or not.

Man this kind of smug attitude is what turns me off from this thread sometimes.

And this is from someone who's on team box more than not.

 

[Sigran101]

Did something happen? Seems like there's news. Where did the renders come from? Any new leaks? Any word from Verg?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think they added a few more buckles.

Oh my goodness

After some careful consideration I want Toad in Smash now

JOIN the conversation.
I hope I was able to help you with my advocation of Stormy's fun comment.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

That's not really the point; it doesn't matter how long ago they were changed. It's the fact that the original renders were what we had believed to be the "final" renders of each of the characters, but even those have undergone changes. It just goes to show that the game itself is still under development and they can change whatever they want at the drop of a hat.

I can't tell if you're just talking out of your rear end, or if you're just seriously uninformed. These updated renders have literally been available for months and have no bearing on the design of a product that was revealed less than a week ago. In addition, there's no denying that -THE BOX- could be edited in the future, what's important is the very specific ordering choice and the VERY specific choice of Corrin's placement. These change LITERALLY nothing.

 

[BlueMagician]

Palutena's render:

• Eye shape has changed, a bit more rounded
• Eye color has changed from aqua green to green
• Hair and eyebrows are lighter green
• Lips are a lighter color
• Clothing is a more solid white than before
• Skirt opening is in the same place, but the opening is narrower in this pose
• Skirt render has changed entirely
• Lighting has changed all around
• Her light symbol was added behind her

I think that's what changed.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly when it comes to echoes I think there's some characters that require gameplay changes (i.e. ), there's some that require different taunts/victory animations to better reflect their personalities (, also I guess). Alph really fits into neither of these categories, Olimar's moveset works just fine and his taunts/victory are generic enough that they still work. That just leaves the question of who doesn't really fit into either, but she's such a popular character that I guess it makes sense.

Don’t forget I want SR returns Varia/Gravity suit too

That's possible, although I think they'd sooner go with the fusion or light suits since they're generally more popular

 

[Over9000BPM]

Still doubtful, particularly since the "rocket heels" are still a part of ZSS's gameplay.

Maybe we'll get a Prime era look for them though. Who knows.

I don’t care about the heels, at least she has a full moveset because of them

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Once again I hold that the main purpose of echoes have nothing to do with gameplay. It's all about the characters personality. Dark Samus would not move the same way Samus would, echo. Daisy would not move the same way Peach would, echo. Alph and the Koopalings would move the same way their counterparts do, so alt costumes. The gameplay differences are just an afterthought

The whole concept of Echoes started to begin with to give what would have been simply alt-costumes with a different voice and announcer call (Lucina and Dark Pit) some more individual flare to allow their personality to shine better and allow people to play an existing character with a few gameplay tweaks (and a personal hangup about Dark Pit using the Three Sacred Treasures). Sakurai then ran with the idea in Ultimate to get some more popular characters on the roster that wouldn't have been able to make it as their own character but were compatible Echo candidates for existing playable characters.

As for Alph, Sakurai did plan at one point in Smash 4's development to promote him, why he didn't in Smash 4 and Ultimate remains unknown, but it could be because Sakurai decided Alph's personality shown enough while 1:1 with Olimar and couldn't think of anything to make Alph feel meaningfully distinct.

As for the Koopalings, eh they're just alt-costumes because it would be a waste of development to make them all Echoes, Bowser Jr. barely made Smash 4's final cut with the Koopalings as just alts as is, and there's probably like 3 people out there who would take all the Koopalings as seven Echoes of Bowser Jr. instead of any assortment of seven other Echoes. People were generally unhappy and felt it was redundant to make all the Koopalings into individual racers in Mario Kart 8, so I would imagine the reaction would be very negative to the Koopalings all being Echoes unless almost every other possible Echo happened.

 

[Idon]

That's not really the point; it doesn't matter how long ago they were changed. It's the fact that the original renders were what we had believed to be the "final" renders of each of the characters, but even those have undergone changes. It just goes to show that the game itself is still under development and they can change whatever they want at the drop of a hat.

No, you're twisting and stretching this logic way too much. You're associating two things that have nothing to do with each other

 

[Pakky]

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

 

[pupNapoleon]

The taunts and win poses for Olimar happen to work well with Alph since they're kind of generic and don't really tell much about either of their personalities.

That is actually why I think it is unfitting.
Both Alph and Olimar have pretty immediate personalities in the game. They get little air time, and it is filled with humor.

 

[TheCJBrine]

How does everyone feel about the Blog Theory compared to the Box Theory?

It's possible that they stop showing characters, but it could go either way I guess.

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

"we heard you like boxes, and now we're taking out characters to ruin your new 'theory'"

 

[staindgrey]

I don’t care about the heels, at least she has a full moveset because of them

I miss the old moveset. Kick them up and beam them down.

I know, I know. I'm in the extreme minority.

 

[drag0nscythe]

The renders I saw did not deconfirm box theory. All looked like alt costumes.

 

[PsySmasher]

Seeing this makes me pretty sad that she isn't the default. But Corrin is the biggest travesty, his male form has like 4 fans (and I'm one of them)

Maybe will get a toggle to change what alt appears on the CSS. We have one for echoes, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Deleted member]

These renders are irrefutable proof to me that the Box Theory is pretty much dead. Everyone was like, "why would they release the box render if it wasn't the completed design?" And yet, if they are still updating the renders for the characters, they can change the box art too.

Except....the only updated renders are those who had been updated at least a month or so ago but never got actually released?

 

[Over9000BPM]

Honestly when it comes to echoes I think there's some characters that require gameplay changes (i.e. ), there's some that require different taunts/victory animations to better reflect their personalities (, also I guess). Alph really fits into neither of these categories, Olimar's moveset works just fine and his taunts/victory are generic enough that they still work. That just leaves the question of who doesn't really fit into either, but she's such a popular character that I guess it makes sense.


That's possible, although I think they'd sooner go with the fusion or light suits since they're generally more popular

Light and Dark suits would be my second choice so that works out

Urgh not the fusion suit it’s so flimsy and ugly I wish it’d just go away [/QUOTE]

 

[staindgrey]

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

I mean, if you want to go with the objectively worst thing, "Smash is cancelled due to all those Waluigi people throwing a fit."

Subjectively, for me personally, it would be Incineroar and Ken being shown. I wholeheartedly believe the box theory. I just want to be proven wrong and surprised by something else.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Alright, where is the render for Naked Shulk and Naked Snake? The girls have been waiting long enough for those two.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'll be pretty pissed honestly if the only Zelda newcomer would be the Hero of Time as Champion Link's Echo, having just pasted the regular bombs and one arrow on the Hero Bow, have the Hookshot or Longshot and just call it a day.

This is also why I think Impa is the only logical Echo character from the Zelda franchise. She's at least her own character. I even wouldn't object if they choose the Ocarina of Time Impa design over Skyward Sword Impa. Even if that's quite unlikely overall... But truth to be told, Ocarina of Time's Impa is probably the direction they are gonna take the Young Impa designs for in upcoming games. Even Hyrule Warriors Impa resembles OOT Impa more than SS Impa, if only slightly.

Hero of Time? Doubtful. It doesn't sound like a character Sakurai would add especially because, uh, well he's already there technically. Now Dark Link. Hear me out. It could literally just be Smash For Link, left handed and all. Just change his voice clips and boom, you got yourself an echo... and a fourth link.

Om a Zelda newcomer though I'm incredibly interested to see what Young Link's Final Smash is. The implications that that could have towards Majora's Mask might push me to believe that maybe Skull Kid is in. Disregarding the box, the rumors, vergeben, etc. And just taking into account whether Young Link references Fierce Deity or not could imply Skull Kid being in the game. Maybe even playable. I dunno. Box, and leaks and junk says otherwise.

I thought I couldn't be anymore hyped to play Ridley...

View attachment 165164

I was wrong.

Oh my God I ****ing love ****ing Metroid Prime holy ****. All the designs in those games are top tier.

 

[Pakky]

Except....the only updated renders are those who had been updated at least a month or so ago but never got actually released?

Been meaning to ask you.

When our boy gets announced can I challenge you to a mirror match on like the 8th ?

 

[SonicMario]

What's the worst thing that could happen in a Smash direct at this point?

Smash Direct is announced but doesn't give a predetermined time for the direct

Everybody gets hype and prepared for it all

Sakurai shows up immediately. And we get all excited.

Then the english translation over Sakurai's voice says. "The game is canceled. Good bye. *bows*" And then it ends.