Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hydrualic Hydra]

As far as I understand the box art theory, it is that we have two characters left because of the spaces.
And that discredits that one of the spaces would inherently be isabelle, whom we just got.

Nevermind the fact that the 'box art theory' implies that the current art, which features Ice Climbers and Peach, more than the Mario, Zelda, and Pikachu...

If you think Nintendo wants to market Ice Climbers more than Mario or Pikachu, I can consider that a point of view, even if it doesnt make sense for any monetary reason. The box art theory, as far as anyone has yet to explain it in my research, defies absolutely all facts. I understand this community wants to look at any reason to short circuit, but this one just isnt logical .

You are terribly uninformed on how -BOX THEORY- works. There are still two open spots AFTER plugging in Isabelle next to K. Rool. If you mathhack where Corrin shows up, given the groupings of nine, he SHOULD be on the other side, but he isn't, meaning there's another open slot on the other side of -THE BOX- between Palutena and Ryu. That's why there are still two spots open after Isabelle.

 

[Pyra]

As far as I understand the box art theory, it is that we have two characters left because of the spaces.
And that discredits that one of the spaces would inherently be isabelle, whom we just got.

You misunderstand then. The box theory says there are three empty spaces, one of which goes to Isabelle, one that is empty in the place of a unique character, and one that is implied to be empty around the other side of the box.

Nevermind the fact that the 'box art theory' implies that the current art, which features Ice Climbers and Peach, more than the Mario, Zelda, and Pikachu...

It heavily implies that the characters that we know about that aren't shown are on the left side of the box.

Look, I would like it to not be real as much as the next guy, but to ignore the fact that the box art obviously split the characters onto either side of the box is missing the point entirely lol.

Mario et. al are on the left side, Luigi and the visible ones are on the right. There is, in fact, an undeniable pattern that can be definitively inferred from what is visible and to say otherwise when presented with this is intentionally being obtuse about it (Not that you are, or anything, I just think you misunderstand something that you would rather not be real). It's undeniable because between how the current roster is numbered and how it is presented on the box, it 100% presents a match, except in the case of the implicit echo slot on the left side of the box between Palutena and Cloud.



This is coming from someone who isn't Team Box. There are certain things you can definitively deduce from the current box art, but there are other things you can't possibly deduce without making an assumption. For instance, there's nothing saying that they can't add an echo anywhere on the box and shift all the characters one slot over. There's also nothing implicating what the characters are besides... vergeben... lmao

 

[Yosher]

Wait wait wait hold on a second. Is that Yoshi's Crafted World alternate actually real? It's not a fan mock-up? Why did nobody tag me for it? Aaaaah it looks good!! I really wanted that too. But how do we know it is real? Anyone can say they got something from a ''press release'', after all. And as the Rayman leak from Smash 4 proved which was made by Artsi Omni (I think that was his name), stuff like this can be faked fairly easily if you just know what you're doing. And renders probably aren't the most difficult thing in the world to fake. So.... how do we know it's actually real?

 

[Frostwraith]

The new alternate costumes are looking great. Very nice that Yoshi has a Crafted World costume.

I wonder if the 108 stage thing could mean that there will be a Crafted World stage like how Wii U had a Woolly World stage.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You are terribly uninformed on how -BOX THEORY- works. There are still two open spots AFTER plugging in Isabelle next to K. Rool. If you mathhack where Corrin shows up, given the groupings of nine, he SHOULD be on the other side, but he isn't, meaning there's another open slot on the other side of -THE BOX- between Palutena and Ryu. That's why there are still two spots open after Isabelle.

I will be the first to admit I may be misinformed on the box theory. I have done my best to find out what it means, but this is the first I've heard after 7 videos and three articles, about any math.

Please feel free to link me to an actual explanation, because the only thing I have seen, *anyone* Ive found, mention, is extra space.

 

[Deleted member]

A Miss Cloud costume is literally all I need to immediatelly drop both Ganon and Shulk and officially become a Cloud main.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

As far as I understand the box art theory, it is that we have two characters left because of the spaces.
And that discredits that one of the spaces would inherently be isabelle, whom we just got.

That’s not true.

Counting the amount of character slots we know of, we have 70.
The 68 unique fighters, plus 6 echoes, minus 4 to make Miis and Trainer one slot each (since we know they’re like that on the roster). That’s 70.

However, there are 36 characters on each side of the box, making for 72 slots. One of these slots is the one after where Isabelle would be, there other is on the other side in a very particular place.

The characters are arranged in groups of 9. On the hidden side there’s the Original 8 plus Dark Samus, then it switches to the other side with Luigi and the next 8 after him, and so on. You can count the characters and their assigned numbers and it is groups of 9 back and forth.

Until you get to the jump from Miis to Corrin, which would have Palutena to Cloud in the middle. However, Palutena to Cloud is only 8 characters, meaning one of the characters between them must have an echo for it to fit as a group of 9. Ryu is in the group, and people think that echo could be Ken, although it could be Medusa for Palutena.

So from the box theory is that there is one more unique newcomer (given the space after Isabelle) and an echo of someone between Palutena and Cloud.

 

[Arcadenik]

He-who-must-not-be-named. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to do that for the 'ultimate Smash,' and that would undoubtedly break the internet. And if he's DLC, then we don't have to buy him and keep our game to just vidya characters.

I hope He-who-must-not-be-named gets in... just to make the detractors be unable to use that "no anime characters" argument against Team Rocket Meowth ever again.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

>tfw your favorite character will never make it into Smash
>tfw your main will never get a deluxe alt costume
>tfw you'll never get a gf
brb imma kms

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I still can’t believe a box ruined Smash Bros.
Of all things to completely kill hype for a game, it was a box

But a box also gave us hype.

The box giveth, the box taketh away.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I will be the first to admit I may be misinformed on the box theory. I have done my best to find out what it means, but this is the first I've heard after 7 videos and three articles, about any math.

Please feel free to link me to an actual explanation, because the only thing I have seen, *anyone* Ive found, mention, is extra space.

Best existing explanation.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

View attachment 165147
Best existing explanation.

Okay people keep saying “Nintendo would never pass up a golden money-making opportunity like Smash DLC because they’re a smart company” and everytime they use the words “Nintendo” and “smart company” in the same breath I just laugh
Guys, while I will agree DLC is likely, that’s up to Sakurai, not Nintendo. If Sakurai doesn’t want to keep working on the game, which seems somewhat likely to me at this point, he won’t.

 

[osby]

Oh man, Bayonetta and Corrin look awesome. Yoshi is good too, but... it doesn't look that different.

 

[Frostwraith]

Okay people keep saying “Nintendo would never pass up a golden money-making opportunity like Smash DLC because they’re a smart company” and everytime they use the words “Nintendo” and “smart company” in the same breath I just laugh
Guys, while I will agree DLC is likely, that’s up to Sakurai, not Nintendo. If Sakurai doesn’t want to keep working on the game, which seems somewhat likely to me at this point, he won’t.

Sakurai is hired by Nintendo, who's the publisher and IP owner. They have a say on whether DLC gets made or not.

 

[Pakky]

Sunday Best, , , (Maybe?)

 

[Zeox]

Wait wait wait hold on a second. Is that Yoshi's Crafted World alternate actually real? It's not a fan mock-up? Why did nobody tag me for it? Aaaaah it looks good!! I really wanted that too. But how do we know it is real? Anyone can say they got something from a ''press release'', after all. And as the Rayman leak from Smash 4 proved which was made by Artsi Omni (I think that was his name), stuff like this can be faked fairly easily if you just know what you're doing. And renders probably aren't the most difficult thing in the world to fake. So.... how do we know it's actually real?

It is real and is not the only one:

These are professional renders, look at that Meta Ridley.

 

[pupNapoleon]

View attachment 165147
Best existing explanation.

I'll read more. But I'm not going to feel badly that this forum does not cite resources. That's on the viewpoint of the discussion.
That said, I'm truly happy there *is* further explanation. I was about to stop with this speculation community entirely.
From a marketing perspective, it still does not make sense to include nearly all iconic characters of gaming media on one side (Mario, Pikachu, DK, Link, Pacman...) but then again, the CSS from last game was also visually odd. So I wont allow this to count out the notion, even if it is bad design whereas revenue is concerned.
To be continued...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Wait wait wait hold on a second. Is that Yoshi's Crafted World alternate actually real? It's not a fan mock-up? Why did nobody tag me for it? Aaaaah it looks good!! I really wanted that too. But how do we know it is real? Anyone can say they got something from a ''press release'', after all. And as the Rayman leak from Smash 4 proved which was made by Artsi Omni (I think that was his name), stuff like this can be faked fairly easily if you just know what you're doing. And renders probably aren't the most difficult thing in the world to fake. So.... how do we know it's actually real?

SourceGaming is trusted chief. They wouldn’t pull this kinda crap.

 

[osby]

Sunday Best, , , (Maybe?)

Bayonetta's daily clothes are prone to rip at slightest attack so it might not be a good idea.

 

[Nethermoosen]

As far as I understand the box art theory, it is that we have two characters left because of the spaces.
And that discredits that one of the spaces would inherently be isabelle, whom we just got.

Nevermind the fact that the 'box art theory' implies that the current art, which features Ice Climbers and Peach, more than the Mario, Zelda, and Pikachu...

If you think Nintendo wants to market Ice Climbers more than Mario or Pikachu, I can consider that a point of view, even if it doesnt make sense for any monetary reason. The box art theory, as far as anyone has yet to explain it in my research, defies absolutely all facts. I understand this community wants to look at any reason to short circuit, but this one just isnt logical .

Last night we had a discussion that pretty much everyone is fed up with the box, so I will keep it concise as possible.

The spaces we can already see aren’t the reason people give credit to the box. The reason is that every 9 characters is in order on the side we can see and then it skips another 9. So, it would make sense(is not proven, but evident) that the characters are also in groups of 9 and skip 9 on the other side.

The problem is that, out of the groups we see, one group ends with Mii Fighter and the next begins with Corrin. Those groups of 9 are each in order by their official numbering as per the official site.

In between Mii Fighter and Corrin, there are only 8 possible characters and is the only part where the pattern is broken. It would leave a space on the other side of the box.

Within that pattern breaking 8 characters, if the space is a character, then it must be an echo. Ryu is in that group. Verg says Ken, so people lean on Ken.

Why would they break that pattern like that? Why would they not just keep it at 9 characters like the rest? Echoes make sense(not proven, but evident).

If that were true, and they are leaving the mock-up open for upcoming echoes, that means there is only one echo left to reveal(might be Ken). If there is only one echo....how do we feel about remaining unique characters after all the reveals so far? 5 unique and 4 echoes as of now. It’s been pretty even. So that’s another pattern we can at least keep in mind.

All in all, there just isn’t enough evidence to come to a conclusion either way and state it as fact. Therefore, the debate is worthless since no one has objective proof.

Out of respect for those who are tired of the topic, I am only explaining what there is to the theory and not debating whether or not I personally feel it’s true.

I advise against continuing the topic further than the basic knowledge of the theory, because it’s been discussed into the ground and it always causes tension.

Hope that helps.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Guys, while I will agree DLC is likely, that’s up to Sakurai, not Nintendo. If Sakurai doesn’t want to keep working on the game, which seems somewhat likely to me at this point, he won’t.

Guess what Sakurai said?

He's said in a column that he's willing to make more Smash if there's demand for it.

And what better way to do that then with DLC support for Ultimate.

It's pretty much a given at this point

I don't get where this pessimistic attitude comes from.

Sakurai won't disappoint.

 

[Cosmic77]

I still say the box theory is suggesting at least two more characters rather than two characters and nothing else.

Instead of considering the possibility that the boxart stops after Ken and Incineroar and doesn't list the rest of the roster, people would rather assume Verge's SE rep is DLC and speculate on who else is planned.

 

[Pakky]

Bayonetta's daily clothes are prone to rip at slightest attack so it might not be a good idea.

Now Battle damage is a old forgotten idea I'd like to see come back

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Since we're talking about alternates, could we get the Hungrybox costume back? Pretty please?

Literally the only costume I want, unfortunately I doubt Sakurai is going to replace her current green hat as it's a Kirby reference.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Okay people keep saying “Nintendo would never pass up a golden money-making opportunity like Smash DLC because they’re a smart company” and everytime they use the words “Nintendo” and “smart company” in the same breath I just laugh
Guys, while I will agree DLC is likely, that’s up to Sakurai, not Nintendo. If Sakurai doesn’t want to keep working on the game, which seems somewhat likely to me at this point, he won’t.

It would be a lose-lose situatuon for everyone if Ultimate did not get DLC.

 

[Frostwraith]

With the possibility of more than 8 costumes per character being quite real, I'm wondering if Bayonetta, Ike, Corrin, Robin, etc. could get 8 colors for each of their two costume options.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Now Battle damage is a old forgotten idea I'd like to see come back

Olimar has battle damage.

 

[Pyra]

With the possibility of more than 8 costumes per character being quite real, I'm wondering if Bayonetta, Ike, Corrin, Robin, etc. could get 8 colors for each of their two costume options.

One of my dreams is to have another set of 8 alts that are unlockable costumes (like Meta-Ridley)
Mostly cause it'd be a fun thing to unlock. I doubt it, though, it's more likely for everyone to just have 16 off the bat.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

The likely hood of these alt. costumes vary but I'm hoping for Mr. L, Twilight Princess Ganondorf, Dark or Dry Bowser (I'd love either), Kaptain K. Rool, Bearded Ryu, Ninten, Armoured Mewtwo, Octolings and, for this last one if he is not an echo, Black Shadow.

 

[osby]

With the possibility of more than 8 costumes per character being quite real, I'm wondering if Bayonetta, Ike, Corrin, Robin, etc. could get 8 colors for each of their two costume options.

If everyone is going to get more Cloud will be a problem.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Olimar has battle damage.

But don't worry, it'll get fixed up right away!

If everyone is going to get more Cloud will be a problem.

Pac-Man even more so.

 

[Pyra]

If everyone is going to get more Cloud will be a problem.

He'll get more shades of dark and brooding.

 

[CroonerMike]

One of my dreams is to have another set of 8 alts that are unlockable costumes (like Meta-Ridley)
Mostly cause it'd be a fun thing to unlock. I doubt it, though, it's more likely for everyone to just have 16 off the bat.

There was a “leak” on GameFAQs some weeks ago about costume unlocks. I can try and find it.

 

[Zeox]

Look at this beauty!:

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I'm back.

Let's talk about DLC.

• How many characters do you think we're getting? Between 10 and 14.
• Who do you think will be the first DLC character? Banjo-Kazooie
• Which character(s) do you think would cause the most hype, be it in the community or overall? Goku
• What additional series/companies would you like to see represented as DLC or could see being represented as DLC? If not in the launch roster, Mortal Kombat, Golden Sun, ARMs, Mach Rider, Dillon’s Rolling Western, Rhythm Heaven, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Xenoblade Chronicles X 2, Banjo-Kazooie, Minecraft, Halo, Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, Tales of~, and Skyrim.
• Do you think there'll be a focus on third party DLC or first party DLC, or a balance of the two? Hopefully a balance but a lot of speculation seems focused on the potential and the unlimitless quality of 3rd party.
• Who would you like to see as DLC? If not included in launch roster, Isaac, Geno, Springman, Mach Rider, Elma, Rex and Pyra, Scorpion, Lloyd Irving, Dragonborn, Master Chief, and Banjo-Kazooie. And Goku.
• How do you think DLC will be structured? I have no clue but I hope it’s gradually for a three year period. I’d love to see Echoes included as periodic free updates save for more special ones like Richter.
• Will characters be sold in packs or separately? Will there be a season pass? I say all 3.
• Do you think we'll get more than just characters and stages (maybe more Mii Costumes, or a new class of purchasable items)? Probably Mii costumes and maybe new trophies and music. I have a ton of Mii costumes I wanna see like Nia from XBC2, Chun-li from SF, Vincent Valentine from FF7, Masked Man from Mother 3, Goemon from Goemon, Nightmare from SoulCalibur, and Chibi-Robo.
• What are some potential character packs you can think of/would like to see? Villain pack starring Black Knight, Skull Kid, and Black Shadow plus costumes of TP Ganon and Dry Bowser. Capcom pack featuring Monster Hunter plus alt costumes of Evil Ryu, Violent Ken plus palette swaps featuring an Amaterasu Duck Hunt, Strider Hiryu Sheik, and Donovan Simon.
• Do you think we might see new modes as DLC? Probably not
• Will you support DLC for this game? What would make you want to purchase it or not want to purchase it? Of course

 

[pupNapoleon]

Okay people keep saying “Nintendo would never pass up a golden money-making opportunity like Smash DLC because they’re a smart company” and everytime they use the words “Nintendo” and “smart company” in the same breath I just laugh
Guys, while I will agree DLC is likely, that’s up to Sakurai, not Nintendo. If Sakurai doesn’t want to keep working on the game, which seems somewhat likely to me at this point, he won’t.

No it isnt. Nintendo can do whatever they wants with the game. Likely, yes, they would want it to be Sakurai to work on it- but that doesnt mean Nintendo is not the one to make the decision.
Sakurai has flat out stated, "At this point I have been asked to create Smash and so I am doing that, and will continue to do so if the demand is there."
While he could always opt out of creating DLC, he has already told us that he will if we want it, and of course we want it.

 

[P.Kat]

Out of curiosity..

How would the roster of Ultimate look good in your eyes?

Which veterans would you cut and which newcomers would you add?

Ultimately (pun intended ) If got Lyn, Ammy, Elma, Sora, and Shantae, and Krystal, I would want no longer anything characters beyond that (favorite or otherwise) would be icing on the cake.

Now, I sacrifice Bowser, DK, Jigglypuff, Ike, Falco, Ness, and King Dedede , so I can summon Lyn, Amaterasu, Elma, Sora, Shantae, Krystal, and Rayman in attack mode.

Source Gaming are claiming on Twitter to be debuting some new Smash info in the "very near future". Here's the tweet:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1042047172504690694

Zinith where are you buddy? Your wish is finally coming true!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Olimar has battle damage.

It's only for a short while though.

Little Mac, on the other hand.

 

[Yosher]

It is real and is not the only one:

These are professional renders, look at that Meta Ridley.

If you're any good with photoshop, you can make any render look professional. That's not reason enough to believe this is real.

SourceGaming is trusted chief. They wouldn’t pull this kinda crap.

This, however, is a fair reason to believe it's real I guess, although I still choose to be cautious with believing it's actually real because I don't want to be disappointed, just in case it isn't real, because I really REALLY want this to be real, and I just want to be careful.

 

[osby]

Olimar has battle damage.

Little Mac, too, I guess.

EDIT:Greninja'd.