Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

So box theory still looks infallible, yes?

The box theory never had a shred of credence.

We got Isabelle announced. Then the art comes out. And we say the box art, excluding the most recent character, has all the characters on it.

There is no theory there. It is factually disproven.

 

[AugustusB]

The box theory never had a shred of credence.

We got Isabelle announced. Then the art comes out. And we say the box art, excluding the most recent character, has all the characters on it.

There is no theory there. It is factually disproven.

Agreed my friend. I am just waiting for the monkey wrench to be tossed in.
Though at this point, the game will be amazing no matter what.

 

[Starbound]

The box theory never had a shred of credence.

We got Isabelle announced. Then the art comes out. And we say the box art, excluding the most recent character, has all the characters on it.

There is no theory there. It is factually disproven.

Yeah that seems like a reach...

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

The true Smash OC is the fusion between Ridley and a mistake

But it shouldn't be "eh Miis already exist, no need to add X"

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST THIS PICTURE ANYMORE SHHHHH!

I'll sue you for defamation.

People can like characters for being characters, as I do too.

All I'm just saying is that gameplay is what matters the most in a game. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.

But I guess I'm the bad guy here for suggesting that gameplay is the deciding factor in getting characters in the game, which is a fact.

Most character supporters try to come up with concepts for how the character would play, for an obvious reason: the developers listen to us and know which characters we want. They know what's popular and they'll pick the popular characters that are viable additions to the game. Being popular is enough and it's what puts a character in consideration. Whether the character meshes well with the game is the deciding factor out of many wanted characters due to how huge a crossover game Smash is.

I'm just saying that gameplay is the best and perhaps only viable argument for putting a character in the game. All the rest is an aside. A nice thing to have but not the essential to a game like Smash.

But, of course, I'm the bad guy for stating some facts as someone interested in game development and Smash Bros. development.

When someone who suggests that characters should be supported on the basis of gameplay is demonized by the game's fanbase, I begin questioning whether people here actually play the game or not. And I'm not even a super hardcore competitive player.

Anyway, I'm done with this.

Really not calling you a bad guy. Yes obviously the gameplay matters but characters don't get in just because of that. And I've never seen anyone demonize someone for wanting a character for just gameplay, you can do both. In short you are valid but people who want a character they relate/or just want a space dragon are also valid.

If you're done with this fine, I don't even care about the representation aspect anymore. I just can't look at all the fans on smash boards and say they want their characters for gameplay above all else and can't be attached to their characters for more than that.

 

[MBRedboy31]

But it shouldn't be "eh Miis already exist, no need to add X"

I’m pretty sure they do say that for characters, mainly ones that were super unlikely anyway.

The other side of Miis that’s separate from what the costumes represent is the fact that you can have your own unique spin on the characters the costumes are based on via the fact that Miis themselves are still customizable, which is most obviously seen via costumes of already existing characters (like the Link and Falcon costumes.)

The Mii characters seem to be heavily minimized this go around (not just in lack of costumes, of which we have no real idea for basing in this game, but overall in their billing).

Mii's are not 'close enough.' Even in Sm4sh, they seem to have been a, "we are developing the next character to also be this." In terms of statistically, this is true.

I do hope they reveal more about Miis in the near future...

Again, Miis aren’t an ideal “close enough.” But, out of sheer practicality, they have to be. What alternative is there?

On another side note, they can represent qualities without needing to represent actual characters, if the player chooses to design generic Miis (or Miis of people they know with said qualities.)

 

[Over9000BPM]

In case anyone was wondering, I don’t care how characters play, I’m bad at video games and I’m bad at Smash. I’m just here for the infinity war crossover fights. :D Which is why I’m so bummed about certain design choices.

 

[The_Naraotor]

I don't care of the gender of the character I play, I care on how the character I play can kick some ass with style. To summarize I am looking for badassery not the gender, that's why I love Samus because she destroyed Three planet of her own, Cloud because he omnislash every badguy at sight and Sonic because he is the Super Saiyan of videogames

 

[Pyra]

Only way for it to be disproven now is Verge is right, but Shadow (example) is shown instead.

Er, not exactly. There are a lot of assumptions people have made with the box and it could surprise disproved any number of ways unrelated to Vergeben.
It was never infallible. The logic is sound for the current design for the box that is shown, but we are assuming they absolutely will not change the direction for the design for the box, as well as making the assumption that the remaining characters are definitely what Verg has in mind.
Even if Verg is right about Ken and Incineroar, it's not like he has information on the total amount of remaining characters or who any of them are. He missed K. Rool (as well as a bunch of echos).

I think it's a good thing to keep in mind as much as the next guy but people should stop acting like it can only be disproved by the vindication of a leaker or something lol



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's all I'm going to give conversation about the box today.
Back to the better conversations.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah that seems like a reach...

My comment seems like a reach?

 

[Frostwraith]

The biggest thing I think youve stated in your arguments is that we just don't have many defined LGBTQ characters.
I don't think we need an LGBTQ identified character in Smash bros, but I do think that the lack of LGBTQ characters in gaming is harmful not just to gamers, but the community as a whole. Gaming is art. Let's give the medium we all love so much the respect it deserves.

You know, that's actually an argument I can get behind.

Smash lacks LGBT characters because there are no frontrunning LGBT characters on the pipeline of potential characters.

If Nintendo adds more LGBT representation in their IPs old and new, it will naturally pop up in Smash if those characters prove to be viable additions to the game.

Once again, gameplay is the defining factor, not anything else.

Now, on other games outside of Smash, that's a whole other subject that I have not mentioned up until now.

(sorry for the double post... whoops... but this really should not be fused given the nature of the LGBTQ conversation. Please dont do it, mods)

I'm curious to your point on what I posted, Frostwraith
I agree on gameplay. But here is my point below.

Not all games are character or story driven, so as a corollary of that, it's hard to tell the medium of games as art itself.

Games can contain artistic elements to it. Most of them have.

Character design, music, scenario design, story, characterization, etc.

A game like Smash isn't story driven and the only character driven aspect is the gameplay and popularity of the characters.

The only bits of characterization given to the characters are through taunts, the general feel of the gameplay (their abilities) and some insight on their source material in the trophies.

As there's no overarching story in Smash, there's no potential development for characters. The characters remain static. In regards to character's sexual orientation, because there's no romance in Smash, there can't be a way to explore the characters' sexuality unless perhaps mentioned in a trophy description.

In conclusion, because even the few characters in Smash that can be interpreted as LGBT are done so in their source material in a subtle and often ambiguous manner, there's no easy way to tell explicitly that a given character is LGBT.

Get my points?

 

[Pyra]

In case anyone was wondering, I don’t care how characters play, I’m bad at video games and I’m bad at Smash. I’m just here for the infinity war crossover fights. :D Which is why I’m so bummed about certain design choices.

What design choices are you talking about?

 

[Sudz]

meaningless deleted post

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't care of the gender of the character I play, I care on how the character I play can kick some *** with style. To summarize I am looking for badassery not the gender, that's why I love Samus because she destroyed Three planet of her own, Cloud because he omnislash every badguy at sight and Sonic because he is the Super Saiyan of videogames

Gender is not sexual orientation. They are exceptionally different, and it is part of the reason the LGBTQ community often are at odds within itself (besides basic human nature). The LGBTQ community is lumped together because of public perception and defense of one another, historically. Yet how one identifies their gender, and how one identifies with whom they are attracted, actually have nothing to do with one another.

 

[osby]

What design choices are you talking about?

They mean Samus's designs are not the ones they like.

 

[AugustusB]

Er, not exactly. There are a lot of assumptions people have made with the box and it could surprise disproved any number of ways unrelated to Vergeben.
It was never infallible. The logic is sound for the current design for the box that is shown, but we are assuming they absolutely will not change the direction for the design for the box, as well as making the assumption that the remaining characters are definitely what Verg has in mind.
Even if Verg is right about Ken and Incineroar, it's not like he has information on the total amount of remaining characters or who any of them are. He missed K. Rool (as well as a bunch of echos).

I think it's a good thing to keep in mind as much as the next guy but people should stop acting like it can only be disproved by the vindication of a leaker or something lol



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's all I'm going to give conversation about the box today.
Back to the better conversations.

Oh I get that lol. All I meant was for the people saying 'Ken and Incinerator are left' would be humbled by Shadow being shown.
Agree, let's shelve this. So how about Spirits mode? Sounds like it could be a really neat addition to the game.

 

[Pyra]

They mean Samus's designs are not the ones they like.

I was being very very sarcastic, Osby.

 

[Over9000BPM]

What design choices are you talking about?

Not just the one you think, I just went on about it because it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and seemed like the only one that could possibly be reversed at this point.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The box theory never had a shred of credence.

We got Isabelle announced. Then the art comes out. And we say the box art, excluding the most recent character, has all the characters on it.

There is no theory there. It is factually disproven.

Uh, not quite. I would explain it but I have to teach a class. Tag me later if I don’t get to it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

People can like characters for being characters, as I do too.

All I'm just saying is that gameplay is what matters the most in a game. That shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp.

But I guess I'm the bad guy here for suggesting that gameplay is the deciding factor in getting characters in the game, which is a fact.

Most character supporters try to come up with concepts for how the character would play, for an obvious reason: the developers listen to us and know which characters we want. They know what's popular and they'll pick the popular characters that are viable additions to the game. Being popular is enough and it's what puts a character in consideration. Whether the character meshes well with the game is the deciding factor out of many wanted characters due to how huge a crossover game Smash is.

I'm just saying that gameplay is the best and perhaps only viable argument for putting a character in the game. All the rest is an aside. A nice thing to have but not the essential to a game like Smash.

But, of course, I'm the bad guy for stating some facts as someone interested in game development and Smash Bros. development.

When someone who suggests that characters should be supported on the basis of gameplay is demonized by the game's fanbase, I begin questioning whether people here actually play the game or not. And I'm not even a super hardcore competitive player.

Anyway, I'm done with this.

Very few people are saying a character should get in because of a character trait. It would just be a nice addition to a character being a good character in Smash that they represent a minority community. That being said, I've criticized a certain character who shall remain nameless (rhymes with my biggest pet peeve) because of lacking both a character and bringing anything interesting gameplay wise. And the general consensus was--**** gameplay, they're popular. So, I agree, gameplay matters.

To me, 3 things matter when deciding on a character: gameplay (do they bring something new, interesting to the actual game), popularity/relevancy (yes popularity should be taken into account, but it shouldn't be the only or primary factor--and popularity matters more than relevancy), breadth of content (what additional characters/settings/music can this character bring with them).

In addition to all that, it'll be great if they're black, gay, bear/bird combo, whatever makes them unique and add diversity to the roster. But I have no problem with people discussing character traits of characters. If people can talk about Zero Suit Samus' boobs, they can talk about a character's sexuality.

I judge rosters by the good and the bad, not just the good.

So, why not just unlock the good? I know myself, Dark Samus will probably be the last character I unlock, if I ever get around to it. The benefit of having to unlock everybody, you can pick and choose who you want (depending on how unlocking characters actually turns out).

 

[MSmariosonic]

Every 2 weeks there's a column in famitsu writtin by Sakurai, right?

So we can expect one this week I assume

 

[osby]

I was being very very sarcastic, Osby.

Oops, I should get it from Wario. -_-, sorry.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

How unique is Ridley's moveset anyways? As in, what can he do that's different from other characters? His tail stab is the only thing I can think of.

Out of curiosity..

How would the roster of Ultimate look good in your eyes?

Which veterans would you cut and which newcomers would you add?

I'll make a roster to answer this when I get home.

 

[Deleted member]

They mean Samus's designs are not the ones they like.

I love when you’re talking about something, and then HEY DID YOU KNOW I HATE THE OTHER M DESIGNS?

Every 2 weeks there's a column in famitsu writtin by Sakurai, right?

So we can expect one this week I assume

Oh boy, Isabelle talk! Maybe...I don’t think he ever talked about Shulk in Smash 4, or he did and I missed it.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Oops, I should get it from Wario. -_-, sorry.

That’s not all I was referring to anyway

 

[osby]

That’s not all I was referring to anyway

Then say what you were referring to, we can't know unless you say us directly.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

In case anyone was wondering, I don’t care how characters play, I’m bad at video games and I’m bad at Smash. I’m just here for the infinity war crossover fights. :D Which is why I’m so bummed about certain design choices.

I have lots of friends who are the same, awful at the game and just play as the characters they love.

My best friend mains the crap out of SSB4 Ganondorf despite the fact they can't play very well, but just loves bad ass demon King aestethic. Side note they are very excited that he's been reworked.

Then say what you were referring to, we can't know unless you say us directly.

Do you really not know? Jeez people complain about the box theory being brought up multiple times, but I feel like some of you are never on here apparently. Aka you guys have lives. What a waste /s (obviously)

 

[Pyra]

The box theory never had a shred of credence.

We got Isabelle announced. Then the art comes out. And we say the box art, excluding the most recent character, has all the characters on it.

There is no theory there. It is factually disproven.

Er, not quite.
Disclaimer: I'm not on or against team Box, I'm just into speculation theory and thought experiments. If I had to pick a side, it'd be against, because it's the more exciting option.
There are two visibly empty spots and one theoretically empty spot around the other side. Nothing about the box's current presentation discredits it, really. There's room for Isabelle as well as an echo and a unique.
The promotional material was made and sent before Isabelle's announcement and only shows that this isn't the final product, not that the design principle or theory that everyone's been talking about is outright wrong.
There's nothing right now that proves either way. Only way we can know for sure is to wait.

Which is why we should go back to speculating about more exciting things cause this ain't it chief

 

[Pakky]

Okay so this is going to come off as a terrible post (because it is) but is Jeanne's butt really big to anyone else or is it just me?

...Okay I'll get my coat....

 

[AugustusB]

Okay so this is going to come off as a terrible post (because it is) but is Jeanne's butt really big to anyone else or is it just me?

...Okay I'll get my coat....

Yeah dude, that booty is too big to compete!

...wait up, I'll go with you.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Here's something else

WatchMojo did a thing on Smash Ultimate recently.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Source Gaming are claiming on Twitter to be debuting some new Smash info in the "very near future". Here's the tweet:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1042047172504690694

 

[Omega Tyrant]

How unique is Ridley's moveset anyways? As in, what can he do that's different from other characters? His tail stab is the only thing I can think of.

I'll make a roster to answer this when I get home.

He has no special mechanics and his moveset in general is pretty conventional, but none of his moves appear cloned, at most he just has a similar down smash and neutral aerial to Charizard.

 

[Chrono.]

Source Gaming are claiming on Twitter to be debuting some new Smash info in the "very near future". Here's the tweet:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1042047172504690694

lol That first reply

"Which Smash game"

EDIT: Oh ****

A new alt. costume for Yoshi has been discovered. Find out all the details, exclusively on Source Gaming!https://t.co/opmywWTLhn pic.twitter.com/ncZw2zchzB

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) September 18, 2018

Zinith

 

[MSmariosonic]

Source Gaming are claiming on Twitter to be debuting some new Smash info in the "very near future". Here's the tweet:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1042047172504690694

You mean this?

Zinith look at ya boi

 

[Pakky]

Yeah dude, that booty is too big to compete!

...wait up, I'll go with you.

Speaking of Bayonetta, I think there's going to be a third witch.


Zinith

You got something fam, congrats!

 

[Over9000BPM]

Then say what you were referring to, we can't know unless you say us directly.

Fair enough.

Here’s a list of non-Samus things I hate:
The “realism” direction with the graphics, with its washed out colours and forcing characters to either deviate from their source material or just look bad.

I hate that upper blast line KOs usually just have a standard explosion instead of a star/screen ko.

I miss characters screaming when hit hard at higher percentages and being KOed in stamina mode.

I hate the Kid Icarus Uprising intensity mechanics, and I hate the enormous amount of overpowered items that can kill at very low percentages.

Transformation final smashes were my favourites so I’m gutted they’ve been drop kicked from the franchise.

And probably others that aren’t coming to mind right now.

 

[Pyra]

You mean this?

Zinith look at ya boi

Fuzzy Yoshi best yoshi

 

[?????????????]

Someone beat me to it.

 

[Q-Long]

Here's something else

WatchMojo did a thing on Smash Ultimate recently.

Not hating if you like them, but to me Watch Mojo always felt soulless, like they're not fans of the content in the videos they make and they just parrot/copy other lists they find. There is never a surprise on any of their lists

 

[Deleted member]

You mean this?

Zinith look at ya boi

That's neat. Why's Shulk there though? Is there some minor difference in his render that I'm not seeing?