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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Potato_

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I think we should go back to discussing LGBT characters in Smash.
View attachment 165103
View attachment 165102
Because need I remind you that Bisabelle is our newest one?
WAIT HOLD ON. When was it shown in game that Isabelle has a crush on the mayor? I never noticed this.

Also yeah, no way the game gets delayed now. Their chance to announce that was last direct with the Switch bundle, if they wait for what is essentially less than 2 months to delay it it's going to leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Also I guarantee you the only things they're working on now is polishing and balance tweaking/other bug related problems. The game is ESRB rated, so all the content in it is already in.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.
Unless someone asks for a character at the last minute, I don't think it'll happen.

Sakurai bias is a thing tbh. It's evident with Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, and Kirby.

Haven't really spotted it in any other franchise so I guess it's not too bad.
In Kirby's case it mutated into anti-bias, given how he only sticks to his own entries and nerfed MK to hell and back.

Also, FE is somehow inaccurate in some ways despite the bias, but that's neither here nor there.
 

Nekoo

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You asked for it.

Actually, Shrek is a better pick because we need more heavyweight and Western reps in the game and he's superior to an anime swordsman who doesn't even use a sword.
Goku is a better pick because Mashed Potatoes Samurott work in smash with Bamco who have it's video game right. And Square Enix- Who have Dragon Quest- and Pablo Picasso did the chara-design of Dragon Quest.

let's stop before it becomes serious
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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As much as "patterns" have burned us in the past, I can still see the final character revealed being a niche pick. Say a character from a 16 bit RPG...

But that's just my gut feelign and my gut said that what ended up being Isabelle's reveal would be for a Pokemon
Given that I though the Smash direct started with a third party and ended with a first one, when I thought it'd be the opposite, I wouldn't rely on gut feelings that much.

Well, except for a WTF character, I'm sure Sakurai will put one somewhere.

No to bestiality, yes to furriality
Isn't that the same?
Pairing a humanoid dog is better than a normal dog like the Duck Hunt dog. Just saying.
 
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osby

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I raise my eyebrow at the idea of an anthropomorphic dog having a crush on a human player character.

LGBT rights are cool and all, but please, say no to bestiality.
I mean, animals in Animal Crossing have the same intelligence with each other and the player, making player just another animal. I don't think it really counts as bestiality.

I'm open to not continuing this.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I don't even think we'll get an announcement on DLC until March.

We don't know if the game's even gone Gold yet. After seeing Chrom's model I rather hope it hasn't.
 

CaptainAmerica

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I'm back.

Let's talk about DLC.
How many characters do you think we're getting?
I hope we get a lot. I want this game to be supported for ages, and I'd love to see everyone get their favorites confirmed.
Who do you think will be the first DLC character?
Spring Man would be a good first choice that would get the general public interested, but they could also go for a fan-favorite like Geno or someone who can appeal to both like Tails.
Which character(s) do you think would cause the most hype, be it in the community or overall?
He-who-must-not-be-named. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to do that for the 'ultimate Smash,' and that would undoubtedly break the internet. And if he's DLC, then we don't have to buy him and keep our game to just vidya characters.
What additional series/companies would you like to see represented as DLC or could see being represented as DLC?
BETHESDA. Full Stop.
Give me Dovahkiin.

I do think it's time we got iconic Western character in Smash. Before we liked to pretend that Smash was a Nintendo exclusive club, but Sm4sh DLC went about it trying to celebrate all of gaming. How can we celebrate all of gaming by excluding the biggest market?
Do you think there'll be a focus on third party DLC or first party DLC, or a balance of the two?
I'm guessing third-party. There are still a number of first-parties to go, but nowhere near the hype levels that they had before K. Ridley. Third party characters would bring massive hype.

Not to say that third-party will be all of the DLC - Spring Man and Rex are both looking like major contenders.
Who would you like to see as DLC?
Dovahkiin.
Tails.
Someone from Zelda - either bring in Urbosa (or better yet, all four champs), promote Midna, or throw Skull Kid in.
How do you think DLC will be structured?
I’d hope that we get a bunch of different types of DLC like in 4. Full new characters with stages, music, maybe even relevant assists; new characters from existing series; cheaper echoes; stages; Mii costumes; etc.

I like lots of choice since I get to decide what I do and don’t use in game. I bought all the characters last time up to Cloud when I stopped playing, but I don’t really play Miis so I didn’t buy any costumes.
Will characters be sold in packs or separately? Will there be a season pass?
I’d prefer packs of character/music/stage, but I did like the choice of pack or individual for most things. I’d likely get a character pass if it were available but it’s not necessary.
Do you think we'll get more than just characters and stages (maybe more Mii Costumes, or a new class of purchasable items)?
Hope so. I’d even like trophies added as free updates to expand that library.

Oh, and DLC costumes for characters! I need loads of different Zelda outfits!
What are some potential character packs you can think of/would like to see?
Bethesda Pack:
Playable Dovahkiin, with a Skyrim stage and several ported songs.
Playable Doomguy, with a stage and music.
With Vault Boy as an assist (acts like Bomberman but with Smart Bombs)
Also Mii costumes for all three.

Sonic Pack:
Semi-Clone Tails
Echo Shadow

Hyrule Warriors pack:
Costumes for Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf
Midna and Skull Kid characters
Impa echo
Do you think we might see new modes as DLC?
I really have no idea there. Would be fun to get individual character trials like Melee Target tests, but it’s not a requirement.
Will you support DLC for this game? What would make you want to purchase it or not want to purchase it?
Absolutely. I love DLC.

Only things I won’t buy would be things I don’t really use like Mii Costumes, or of they put in a character who’s totally anti-hype for me with no Dovahkiin to balance it.
It won't be on-disc but if the Box Theory and Verg are true, then that means the SE character is DLC and that they were developed and planned for even much earlier than now.
DLC should only become a talking point after the game launches.
...
So we’re only allowed to talk about Ken and Incineroar until release?

I get that not everyone likes DLC, but unlike other companies, Nintendo has been incredible at delivering fully-finished games pre-DLC, which makes it as it was always intended - optional.

I’m sure that they’re starting to put feelers out to get rights to various third-parties; that could take ages. However, I’m also reasonably sure that most of the moveset planners have finished, so it’s fine if they start thinking of something else. Otherwise, they’re sitting around for a while. The art crew is doing polishing now, and balancing is probably in full swing after watching loads of people beta test so far.

Planned != fully developed character that’s ready to drop at release. Even Mewtwo took a few months to make, and that was with the moveset planning done.

This is what I love about DLC - you don't have to buy it. Most don’t. But for those who do want more, we get more.

Besides, most of us still have characters we’d like to see. If we’re not allowed to talk about characters because there aren’t enough slots on the box and we’re not allowed to suggest characters as DLC, then we’re left in a downward spiral of salt. If this is really where all speculation goes, then the mods should just lock the character speculation stuff until we even get confirmation that DLC will come.

Another reason we focus so much on characters is that we know next to nothing about single-player and other modes. We’re at the point that the most discussion we can have is “Will All-Star mode return? Yes or no?” Trying to talk about whether we get any of the larger old modes (which have not come back between games) is another yes/no, and guessing what Spirits or the new modea are about are akin to guessing whole new games themselves with nothing to base speculation on.

I’ve said it before: anything that allows people to shut down speculation with a one sentence objection, particularly if it’s based on a theory not fact, is really annoying.
 

Frostwraith

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I mean, animals in Animal Crossing have the same intelligence with each other and the player, making player just another animal. I don't think it really counts as bestiality.

I'm open to not continuing this.
Giving "Animal Crossing" a whole other meaning, I see.

And yes, let's stop before it goes out of hand.
 

Omega Tyrant

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I mean Sakurai bias is supposed to refer to games he's created so Fire Emblem totally isn't one. Count the fact that Fire Emblem also only has 3 stages between it's 7 characters compared to the likes of Mario, Zelda, Pokemon (and yes Kirby and Kid Icarus).

The best explanation I see for Fire Emblem is it's a character driven game simialr to Pokemon being a monster driven game, there's always new content to pull from.

I meant games with official releases. Sure they did those but they never even revealed Fire Emblem officially and they never revealed an exact date or even title for Yoshi.

In comparison we know a ton about Smash already and have release dates for the game, bundles, controllers and amiibo. It would be a much bigger deal to delay all that then just a proposed game with a very general release window.

EDIT: Rereading your post I don't really need to reiterate that Smash won't get delayed. Sorry to beat a dead horse.
Did Breath Of the Wild get an official specific release date before it got delayed? Otherwise what was the last Nintendo game with an official specific release date that got delayed?

Also yeah, no way the game gets delayed now. Their chance to announce that was last direct with the Switch bundle, if they wait for what is essentially less than 2 months to delay it it's going to leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth.
To be fair Brawl's original release date was in December and its delay got announced in October, but that was a different time and I do think people have been a bit paranoid about a prospective delay happening, seeing how often it comes up without any real reason to support it happening. I guess people are still traumatized from Brawl's delay, and Smash 4 hitting its release date just fine did nothing to sooth that trauma.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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I can't remember, when did Smash 4 go gold?
 

Cosmic77

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Does the sexual orientation of Isabelle, an anthropomorphic cartoon dog in a fictional world of talking animals, really matter?

Isabelle is faithful, hard-working secretary who loves her job and enjoys working with the mayor. Let's just leave it at that.
 

Frostwraith

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I sure hope so

Heck I wouldn't mind them bringing back that one coin launcher thingy from Brawl.

I enjoyed it way more than that trophy rush from smash 4.
Coin launcher was cool and yeah, I think Trophy Rush got boring after a while.

Wouldn't mind if they simply brought a wholly new mini-game for it, though.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I think we should go back to discussing LGBT characters in Smash.
View attachment 165103
View attachment 165102
Because need I remind you that Bisabelle is our newest one?
You know what? I'm usually a stickler for canon LGBT characters, but hell that's pretty canon.
Even if it is really just mayor-sexual. Gurl loves that political authority.
Believe me, they'd find a way to hate on the last newcomer even if it was Geno.
I think people over estimate Geno's hype. Like yes in Smash communities, but outside? No way. People will absolutely be like who is this creepy doll and how are they a Mario charcter?

But I totally think Geno has the chance of being our final hype base character, or first promotional dlc character.
Isn't that the same?
Hooooo boy this is a thing now XD
I don't even think we'll get an announcement on DLC until March.
I don't think so. We heard Mewtwo dlc before the Wii U launch and a final Smash direct is the best time to announce it. I'm also predicting this dlc character will release within the first month or so, as many dlc character have been for recent Nintendo games.

Also sorry to quote you twice you were just saying intresting things lol.
Did Breath Of the Wild get an official specific release date before it got delayed? Otherwise what was the last Nintendo game with an official specific release date that got delayed?



To be fair Brawl's original release date was in December and its delay got announced in October, but that was a different time and I do think people have been a bit paranoid about a prospective delay happening, seeing how often it comes up without any real reason to support it happening. I guess people are still traumatized from Brawl's delay, and Smash 4 hitting its release date just fine did nothing to sooth that trauma.
I don't believe it had anything more than "2016". And yea I defintely think the era of the Switch has killed official moving the actual release date type of delays for first party games. As people pointed out a lot of that has to do with the ability to patch etc.
 
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Omega Tyrant

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I can't remember, when did Smash 4 go gold?
I don't think we got any official date on that, but typically games go gold about one month before they release, and sometimes it's even longer than that before release and publishers just sit on them. So Ultimate's base game will have at most about a month and a half left of development, though it's feasible for work to still happen while the game is gold to release as a patch or DLC when the game releases.
 

MSmariosonic

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Coin launcher was cool and yeah, I think Trophy Rush got boring after a while.

Wouldn't mind if they simply brought a wholly new mini-game for it, though.
Hey since Konami is involved,

they might've taken some notes from Konami's experience in the pachinko market and maybe added a pachinko like mini-game, eh? :troll:
 
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Soulsaint

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If incineroar comes in we have a dog-cat-mouse thing going on with the pokemon.
(i realize that Pikachu is technically a Pika, but still)
 
D

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I would rather go back and talk about Goku and how he's a better pick than Shrek.
Or how Pyra's outfit is kid friendlies

Than talking about Sexual representation of fictional character even more when it's a tiny doggo.
She has a name and it's Bisabelle
Nice to know we can ship Isabelle with both Bayo and Snake without being weird.
Bisabelle likes taller men/women confirmed
I raise my eyebrow at the idea of an anthropomorphic dog having a crush on a human player character.

LGBT rights are cool and all, but please, say no to bestiality.
It's not bestiality when it's a consenting antropormophic animal.
Does the sexual orientation of Bisabelle really matter?
Yes
 

PLATINUM7

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"Dog-cat-mouse thing?" Uhhhhhh......
I can see your confusion.

Those are mammals. They aren't like the reptiles you obsess over. They have fur, are warm blooded and lack scales.
 

Frostwraith

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Remember when we discussed about characters' gameplay, what kind of abilities they have, etc.?

How does sexual orientation play into Smash Bros. gameplay? It doesn't.

It's as ridiculous as wanting characters because they're female as it was common in the Smash 3DS/Wii U speculation era.

This said, it's good that we have more female characters, but those female characters didn't get picked because they're female but because they're:
1. Important characters to their franchise
2. Characters that bring new gameplay options to the game

Gameplay, uniqueness, popularity and relevance should still be the only factors in which characters get into Smash. All the rest is incidental.

Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena, Rosalina, Robin, Corrin, Bayonetta, Inkling, Isabelle, etc. all got chosen due to their gameplay potential and for being recognizable and popular characters.
Lucina, Dark Samus and Daisy were chosen due to their popularity and potential as echo fighters.

That's my take on this whole gender/LGBT character thing.

Hey since Konami is involved,

they might've taken some notes from Konami's experience in the pachinko market and maybe added a pachinko like mini-game, eh? :troll:
Genius. This would be one of the biggest ****posts of the video game industry. lmfao

Imagine Konami demanding a pachinko mini-game in Smash as a requisite for Snake and Simon.
 

Soulsaint

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But we already have that.

:ultlucario::ultmewtwo::ultpikachu:
Well then:facepalm:

Guess I still can't believe Mewtwo is back

On the topic of Incineroar, I mentioned before that I want them to fully go heel on him. With his mannerism Him being treated as a villain in the story if there is one. But also have a redemption arc. He sees poor Isabella get hurt by K.rool or something and realizes the error of his ways
 
D

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Remember when we discussed about characters' gameplay, what kind of abilities they have, etc.?

How does sexual orientation play into Smash Bros. gameplay? It doesn't.

It's as ridiculous as wanting characters because they're female as it was common in the Smash 3DS/Wii U speculation era.

This said, it's good that we have more female characters, but those female characters didn't get picked because they're female but because they're:
1. Important characters to their franchise
2. Characters that bring new gameplay options to the game

Gameplay, uniqueness, popularity and relevance should still be the only factors in which characters get into Smash. All the rest is incidental.

Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena, Rosalina, Robin, Corrin, Bayonetta, Inkling, Isabelle, etc. all got chosen due to their gameplay potential and for being recognizable and popular characters.
Lucina, Dark Samus and Daisy were chosen due to their popularity and potential as echo fighters.

That's my take on this whole gender/LGBT character thing.


Genius. This would be one of the biggest ****posts of the video game industry. lmfao

Imagine Konami demanding a pachinko mini-game in Smash as a requisite for Snake and Simon.
Do you like characters because of their design? Do you like characters because of their characterization? Do you like characters for their personality? Well, none of those things affect gameplay, so why should they matter? It's simple, because games are more than just gameplay, a cgaracter isn't just a function. Their sexual orientation is just another trait someone can identify with and is just as valid as any other reason for liking a character. Representation matters.
 

True Blue Warrior

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I would rather go back and talk about Goku and how he's a better pick than Shrek.
Or how Pyra's outfit is kid friendlies
Hello Kitty is far more deserving than Goku and Shrek because she has the second-highest grossing media franchise of all time. :troll:

It's simple, because games are more than just gameplay, a cgaracter isn't just a function.
But Shishœ, the X-Men are just functions! Magneto is just popular because he has an eight-way dash and is really fast.
 
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Frostwraith

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Do you like characters because of their design? Do you like characters because of their characterization? Do you like characters for their personality? Well, none of those things affect gameplay, so why should they matter? It's simple, because games are more than just gameplay, a cgaracter isn't just a function. Their sexual orientation is just another trait someone can identify with and is just as valid as any other reason for liking a character. Representation matters.
Do characters in Smash Bros. have some big neon light saying they're gay or not? No.

Most people don't care about characters being gay or not, or male or female, or whatever. They want cool characters with cool abilities. That's what sells the game.

They want fun characters in a game with good gameplay.

People wouldn't even tell if Isabelle or Corrin could crush on/date characters of their same gender unless they played their games and looked out for that detail. What do you want?

Good thing Sakurai cares mostly about gameplay and fun over "representation" and I'm using it in a very broad manner as series representation also is a point of contentious debate as some people so love to remind us all that there are 7 Fire Emblem characters in the game...
 
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MSmariosonic

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Their sexual orientation is just another trait someone can identify with and is just as valid as any other reason for liking a character. Representation matters.
Thinking about with whom a certain character would sleep with in bed is one of the last things I would think about. Especially in a Nintendo game.

A roster shouldn't be built around only representation.

I never liked my favorite characters because they fill in a certain quota.
I never only liked Balrog because he's a black man. I like Balrog because he's freaking Balrog.
I never only liked The Boss because she's a strong independent female. I like her because she's The freakin' Boss.

Also this whole discussion leans too much towards politics.
 
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