Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

I have to agree DLC talk annoys me, especially when I see "oh don't worry this character can still be DLC" which is the sad truth for all fughting games nowadays.
I'd rather get the full roster at release and nothing else, I hate DLC practices that have been flooding games nowadays and if they were already in development as Verg seems to imply, it's gonna leave an even sour taste in my mouth.

I don't think we'll get on-dics DLC. Sakurai explicitly stated that he doesn't like that practice.

As for additional content developped after the release? It's going to be buy it or leave it.

 

[Frostwraith]

I definitely think DLC will happen and development likely will only start very close to the game's release (i.e. after it goes gold but before the actual release).

Mewtwo was already in early development when DLC was first announced for Smash 3DS/Wii U. They only had the model and no gameplay footage was shown, but it's still something and the Wii U version hadn't been released yet at the time.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think we'll get on-dics DLC. Sakurai explicitly stated that he doesn't like that practice.

As for additional content developped after the release? It's going to be buy it or leave it.

It won't be on-disc but if the Box Theory and Verg are true, then that means the SE character is DLC and that they were developed and planned for even much earlier than now.
DLC should only become a talking point after the game launches.

 

[Shroob]

I have to agree DLC talk annoys me, especially when I see "oh don't worry this character can still be DLC" which is the sad truth for all fughting games nowadays.
I'd rather get the full roster at release and nothing else, I hate DLC practices that have been flooding games nowadays and if they were already in development as Verg seems to imply, it's gonna leave an even sour taste in my mouth.

"It's better than a civil war whenever someone mentions a box" is how I view it.

Yeah, it's early to talk DLC.



But would you prefer everyone going at each other's necks whenever the notorious B-O-X is brought up?

 

[Frostwraith]

It won't be on-disc but if the Box Theory and Verg are true, then that means the SE character is DLC and that they were developed and planned for even much earlier than now.
DLC should only become a talking point after the game launches.

I agree with DLC being developed after the game is released, yes, but at this point, the game ought to be almost finished already and is in the testing/debugging phase, so assuming the SE character is DLC, the only way to be added to the base game would be by delaying the game at this point.

Could be in an earlier state to the point it can't be added to the base game without compromising its development.

 

[Diddy Kong]

On the topic of Shadow, do you folks think we'll be getting echoes as DLC or not?

I do hope so, but I also actively don’t want Shadow. Echoes as DLC would be way better than Mii Costumes like we got last time.

 

[Deleted member]

"It's better than a civil war whenever someone mentions a box" is how I view it.

Yeah, it's early to talk DLC.



But would you prefer everyone going at each other's necks whenever the notorious B-O-X is brought up?

I'd rather speculate about the base game, which the Boxes are so yes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

 

[Shroob]

I'd rather speculate about the base game, which the Boxes are so yes.

I believe a famous man once said:

"That's hell you're walking into."

 

[IGuessItsOver]

I do hope so, but I also actively don’t want Shadow. Echoes as DLC would be way better than Mii Costumes like we got last time.

If we were to get echoes as DLC, they shouldn't cost as much as a new character imo

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

As long as they add another heavily requested character in the base game i wouldn't mind.

 

[Moydow]

We're already talking about DLC? I miss the days when you bought a game and it came complete on the cart/disc/whatever. Not that I think DLC is inherently a bad thing, it just gets misused a lot. Ideally it'd be like a dessert to the main course (the base game), so you wouldn't even be considering it before the game is out and there wouldn't be anything like on-disc DLC (I at least don't expect that with Smash), but I guess that's just where we are these days.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

I doubt it’s that real of a possibility at this point. From what we’ve seen the game is pretty much complete and we’ve so much of it in action that there is virtually no reason to ever delay the game at this stage. Patches and DLC are things they can turn to if there are issues or characters they want to add after the fact.

 

[Zinith]

We're already talking about DLC? I miss the days when you bought a game and it came complete on the cart/disc/whatever. Not that I think DLC is inherently a bad thing, it just gets misused a lot. Ideally it'd be like a dessert to the main course (the base game), so you wouldn't even be considering it before the game is out and there wouldn't be anything like on-disc DLC (I at least don't expect that with Smash), but I guess that's just where we are these days.

Blame it on the box

 

[Guybrush20X6]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

They could also kill the planet by making a black hole in the Large Hadron Collider but we don't wanna talk about that either.

 

[Deleted member]

We're already talking about DLC? I miss the days when you bought a game and it came complete on the cart/disc/whatever. Not that I think DLC is inherently a bad thing, it just gets misused a lot. Ideally it'd be like a dessert to the main course (the base game), so you wouldn't even be considering it before the game is out and there wouldn't be anything like on-disc DLC (I at least don't expect that with Smash), but I guess that's just where we are these days.

I think the general gist of Nintendo's implementation of DLC has been harmless, so the skepticism in that regard is probably on a pretty low level compared to more common offenders like EA and Activision. There are of course exceptions like the 3DS Mario golf game and Breath of the Wild, but otherwise it's been okay.

That said, I think the main reason it's being talked about is because there's a better chance of making an impact on Nintendo's plans on future DLC additions to Smash than the base roster. It helps that the game already seems to be a pretty dang full experience, so additional content is always welcome.

There's also the fact that literally nothing we can say to Nintendo right now will change the launch roster in any way. Unless we get hyper offended and 1 or 2 would be cut, but that's as unlikely as me ever having any success in life (haha get it nihilism).
The previous Ballot gave us an idea that Nintendo will listen to feedback for future additions, so I think it's a worthy discussion at the moment, even if Sakurai already is starting plans for the first batch of DLC additions.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I really don’t understand the point of talking DLC this early on still. Whatever theories and ideas you do or don’t believe, I still think it’s way too early to discuss DLC and I find it a little frustrating that so much of the speculation for an unreleased game seems to already be headed that way.

Also, I’ve wondered for a while. Do the Echo fighters get branded as true newcomers? They’ve been treated with much less fanfare and Sakurai has acknowledged multiple times how much less work they take. Only Richter got any type of actually hyped up reveal and his space seems special for obvious reasons as a third party. If Echoes don’t count towards traditional newcomers then we only have 5 newcomers. Not saying that we’re guaranteed a ton more with that line of thinking, but then that still holds in line with the “hoping you don’t expect too many newcomers” and a “few more to reveal” without it seeming like those concepts were broken in the event we do get more than Incineroar and Ken (it’s going to be a long month until the next reveal if they’re all we hear about...)

Yeah, I agree, it's difficult to talk about DLC without knowing what the game will be--and unlike some speculation, I don't think they announced virtually everything 5 months in advance, so there's a lot we could still learn that may change the way we view how DLC would work. That being said, we have to be careful not to set expectations too high.

So, what I would hope to see--not necessarily expect, but thinking of the best case, realistic scenario, I think we'll be getting four more unique fighters, four more echoes. It's a lot, perhaps too much to actually expect, but it lines up with how the blog posts about characters (6-8 more characters, including echoes), lines up with 108 stages if CoroCoro is correct, and is still less unique fighters than what we usually get. I feel like Incineroar and Isaac, with a Felix echo could be announced in October. That being said, with Isabelle being a unique newcomer, I don't know how much her being a semi-clone changes the situation. And Banjo & Kazooie and Geno could be announced in a final Smash Direct. But then you have the Bandai Namco rumor, and all sorts of conflicting information that makes it difficult to even predict how this game will end up, let alone DLC.

Not sure how echoes might be handled, and after the last Direct, we may be seeing fewer echoes than I originally thought. Ken I feel like is the most likely, followed by Shadow. It would be a shame if we got King K Rool, but no Dixie Kong to go along with him. And Impa is looking far less likely, particularly if Skull Kid isn't in the game. It's tough--even with over three months to go, it feels like we're in the final stretch.

A bit too hopeful? Probably. Incredibly unlikely? Many things have been so far, but yeah, admittedly unlikely. But I've set my expectations much lower than this, so hopefully we have some great surprises in store.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't blame people for wanting to look more into potential DLC. Especially after Verge and the Box putting things into a tight spot with not much breathing room for speculation for the base game.

I'm still waiting to find out who the remaining Assist Trophies are before I start speculating on future potential newcomers though.

 

[Wyoming]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

Nintendo would be royally screwed, then. They'll put everything in their power to release it this winter. They are banking on it for holiday sales and have been promoting it hard compared to other titles for that reason.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Despite everything I have against this game now, character DLC getting confirmed would almost instantly change my opinion on it.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

At this point with the bundle releasing in almost a month, it's not going to be delayed. They wouldn't have announced it releasing so soon if that were the case.

Also Nintendo's whole culture on delays has bee much better, I can't week think of the last Nintendo game that was officially delayed

 

[osby]

Despite everything I have against this game now, character DLC getting confirmed would almost instantly change my opinion on it.

Um, what you have against this game now?

 

[WaxPython]

Sakurai bias is a thing tbh. It's evident with Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, and Kirby.

Haven't really spotted it in any other franchise so I guess it's not too bad.

 

[Frostwraith]

At this point, there really shouldn't be a delay. The game's development has been going well according to Sakurai and the game is almost complete and likely already in testing phase.

Not to mention that Nintendo is banking on it being their big holiday release, so delaying it would be a bad PR move.

 

[CosmicQuark]

At this point with the bundle releasing in almost a month, it's not going to be delayed. They wouldn't have announced it releasing so soon if that were the case.

Also Nintendo's whole culture on delays has bee much better, I can't week think of the last Nintendo game that was officially delayed

Fire Emblem and Yoshi. So, it's actually been worse than the first year. But Smash releasing so soon, I say there's very little chance it gets delayed at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

I believe a famous man once said:

"That's hell you're walking into."

This is what you forgot. At the heart of it all was a wish... the wish for this hell to be undone.

 

[Nekoo]

You know guys, the release date could also be pushed back into 2019. It’s a very real possibility that I’ve seen nobody mention yet.

>Push back date after making a big deal out of it being out the 7 December 2018

Pshh. I knew Nintendo didn't made a contract only for Cloud in smash, the Second Square-Rep is called "Delay"

 

[Frostwraith]

>Push back date after making a big deal out of it being out the 7 December 2018

Pshh. I knew Nintendo didn't made a contract only for Cloud in smash, the Second Square-Rep is called "Delay"

Delays are a good representation of Square Enix. *looks at Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III and Final Fantasy VII remake*

 

[osby]

Delays are a good representation of Square Enix. *looks at Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III and Final Fantasy VII remake*

Looking it like that, it seems like they could avoid a few delays by giving Nomura less games.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Also, I’ve wondered for a while. Do the Echo fighters get branded as true newcomers? They’ve been treated with much less fanfare and Sakurai has acknowledged multiple times how much less work they take. Only Richter got any type of actually hyped up reveal and his space seems special for obvious reasons as a third party. If Echoes don’t count towards traditional newcomers then we only have 5 newcomers. Not saying that we’re guaranteed a ton more with that line of thinking, but then that still holds in line with the “hoping you don’t expect too many newcomers” and a “few more to reveal” without it seeming like those concepts were broken in the event we do get more than Incineroar and Ken (it’s going to be a long month until the next reveal if they’re all we hear about...)

Some will jump on you for not calling them "true newcomers", but they are of a lesser category and Sakurai isn't trying to present them as equivalent to a normal character, being upfront about what they are and they don't even get their own roster number. But overall yeah counting them in newcomer/roster counts muddles it up, and it would be better for people to separate them in such counts.

As for Sakurai's "statements", they're so vague and never had a real quantitative value to them, while everyone has their own interpretation of what they meant (before the 8.8 Direct there were a sizeable amount of people who insisted it meant that they revealed everyone at E3 or that there were just 1 or 2 more newcomers left with maybe an Echo). So regardless of if Kencineroar is all that's left or there's 6 more unique newcomers with a few Echoes, you can't really say Sakurai "lied" or "trolled" about what he said.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As much as "patterns" have burned us in the past, I can still see the final character revealed being a niche pick. Say a character from a 16 bit RPG...

But that's just my gut feelign and my gut said that what ended up being Isabelle's reveal would be for a Pokemon

 

[Deleted member]

I think we should go back to discussing LGBT characters in Smash.

Because need I remind you that Bisabelle is our newest one?

 

[AzureFlame4]

As much as "patterns" have burned us in the past, I can still see the final character revealed being a niche pick. Say a character from a 16 bit RPG...

Is this a Crono confirmation I see?!

 

[osby]

As much as "patterns" have burned us in the past, I can still see the final character revealed being a niche pick. Say a character from a 16 bit RPG...

But that's just my gut feelign and my gut said that what ended up being Isabelle's reveal would be for a Pokemon

If people called on Isabelle "not popular" because she's not Skull Kid and hated her reveal, I don't want to know what will happen if our last newcomer is... *looks at R.O.B. and Duck Hunt* ...nevermind, I know.

 

[Nekoo]

I think we should go back to discussing LGBT characters in Smash.
View attachment 165103
View attachment 165102
Because need I remind you that Bisabelle is our newest one?

I would rather go back and talk about Goku and how he's a better pick than Shrek.
Or how Pyra's outfit is kid friendlies

Than talking about Sexual representation of fictional character even more when it's a tiny doggo.

 

[Michele]

Hello, I'm back! I do have school which will leave most of us busy. With there being school for most of us here, the wait is going to be unbearable.

Anything new since I was offline?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Sakurai bias is a thing tbh. It's evident with Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, and Kirby.

Haven't really spotted it in any other franchise so I guess it's not too bad.

I mean Sakurai bias is supposed to refer to games he's created so Fire Emblem totally isn't one. Count the fact that Fire Emblem also only has 3 stages between it's 7 characters compared to the likes of Mario, Zelda, Pokemon (and yes Kirby and Kid Icarus).

The best explanation I see for Fire Emblem is it's a character driven game simialr to Pokemon being a monster driven game, there's always new content to pull from.

Fire Emblem and Yoshi. So, it's actually been worse than the first year. But Smash releasing so soon, I say there's very little chance it gets delayed at this point.

I meant games with official releases. Sure they did those but they never even revealed Fire Emblem officially and they never revealed an exact date or even title for Yoshi.

In comparison we know a ton about Smash already and have release dates for the game, bundles, controllers and amiibo. It would be a much bigger deal to delay all that then just a proposed game with a very general release window.

EDIT: Rereading your post I don't really need to reiterate that Smash won't get delayed. Sorry to beat a dead horse.

 

[osby]

I would rather go back and talk about Goku and how he's a better pick than Shrek.
Or how Pyra's outfit is kid friendlies

Than talking about Sexual representation of fictional character even more when it's a tiny doggo.

You asked for it.

Actually, Shrek is a better pick because we need more heavyweight and Western reps in the game and he's superior to an anime swordsman who doesn't even use a sword.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If people called on Isabelle "not popular" because she's not Skull Kid and hated her reveal, I don't want to know what will happen if our last newcomer is... *looks at R.O.B. and Duck Hunt* ...nevermind, I know.

Believe me, they'd find a way to hate on the last newcomer even if it was Geno.

 

[Zinith]

As much as "patterns" have burned us in the past, I can still see the final character revealed being a niche pick. Say a character from a 16 bit RPG...

But that's just my gut feelign and my gut said that what ended up being Isabelle's reveal would be for a Pokemon

Every chance I get to show this pic...

Ain't I a stinkah!!!!

 

[AzureFlame4]

You want to know what is criminally underrepresented in Smash? Lawyer characters.