Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jedisupersonic]

Hoping they branch to other Mega Man series too. We gotta get some Battle Network or Star Force in there.

Of course, and the Zero and ZX games too!

 

[Luigi The President]

SK has nothing to do with Shantae.
Shantae was more popular in Japan than him.
Checkmate.

If Shantae has nothing to do with Shovel Knight stop using his existence in Smash to validate her

 

[Nethermoosen]

So one thing me and my sisters have always had fun doing is arguing over which Hogwarts houses characters fit into, so I figured I'd do it for Smash.

Gryffindor:

Slythern:

Hufflepuff:


Ravenclaw: ultzelda:(Robin could fit into Griffindor).

Heroes tend to fit too snuggly into Griffindor, which explains the extreme abundance of them.

I don't really know Snake, Bayo, Cloud or Mother characters, so I kind of assumed with them (besides, one of them is named Snake).

Hufflepuff will accept anyone, which explains the oddball characters.

Fun fact: I'm actually a Hufflepuff myself. Our defining traits are loyalty and compassion, and I'm a huge animal lover and Zard loyalist, so it checks out.

I don’t get how Zard, Cloud and Simon would be Gryffindor. I feel they’d be Slytherin or Ravenclaw. I’m not too savvy on the Potter stuff, but I’ve been bombarded on Facebook a few times.

 

[Deleted member]

SK has nothing to do with Shantae.
Shantae was more popular in Japan than him.
Checkmate.

Dude.
No one cares.

Calm down with the "Shantae is better than Shovel Knight" boner.

Neither one did particularly well on the Ballot in Japan.

 

[pupNapoleon]

They had a very good reason to stress "wait til the end." Nintendo fans tend to be impatient and reactionary.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but ever since the Switch launched, Animal Crossing fans have been VERY vocally disappointed online whenever a Nintendo event happens and Animal Crossing is a no-show. A vocal segment were also disappointed that Smash got its own Direct not long after having a huge chunk of E3 dedicated to it. So when said fans get led to believe an Animal Crossing game is coming, only for it to be a Smash trailer, they were bound to be upset. They may have even rage quit the video thinking Smash was a "one more thing" only to be met with a confirmation of a new Animal Crossing.

"Wait till the end" is far from a slapdash transition. It's helping to ensure Animal Crossing diehards don't rage for no reason.

There isnt an argument here that would explain why they do not then always say 'wait for the end.'
A trailer is made to create hype, not to piss off the fans of the trailer. If they felt the trailer was going to just piss off the fans, then it would have been made differently. Your argument actually supports their lack of faith in the presentation they showed. Artists don't apologize for their work.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

At the same time I could honestly see Black Knight being in over Impa as an Echo and then her being DLC especially if we take the red knight in the background into account and we all know how much Sakurai loves to keep throwing Fire Emblem characters in despite complaints. At the same time though he maybe DLC and its Impa that makes Base.

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow’s lame, Goldie. Make Tails or Robotnik the next character!

Eggman? Sure.

But Shadow > Tails.

 

[Deleted member]

SK has nothing to do with Shantae.
Shantae was more popular in Japan than him.
Checkmate.

They're both still pretty niche, though. She has a bit more of a Japanese following than he does, but not by much.

I'm not saying it's impossible for her to be in, but...I wouldn't bank on it being all that high a shot, either. That's just me, though.

 

[praline]

Eggman? Sure.

But Shadow > Tails.

You tossing the piss? Shadow is laaaaaaaaaaaame!

 

[Potato_]

My predictions have shifted as of late. They are as follows:

Base Game:
38ᵋ Shadow
60ᵋ Ken
69 Incineroar
70 Skull Kid

DLC:
71 Geno (Revealed to be in development just before launch.)
72 Dante
...And more, but I don't think I can predict much further ahead.

A roster prediction that still includes Skull Kid? AND as the final reveal?

I'm a huge Skull Kid fan and even I've lost hope for base roster. I'm convinced he'll be one of the first DLC characters.

 

[Opossum]

If SK has nothing to do with Shovel Knight stop using his existence in Smash to validate her

Either there was a typo here or Shovel Knight has nothing to do with Shovel Knight.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Skull Kid is a pretty risky bet at this point. Any thoughts as to why he may still have a shot, or is it more a guess?

It’s always been a guess. Very little has changed as far as evidence.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

With Shantae though unlike Shovel Knight. She has quite some history with Nintendo going back to the Game Boy Color games. That's the only thing she has over him that could possibility get in the game.

 

[ganondorf_22]

Neutral Special is now his staff, works much like the staff item does but much weaker for obvious reasons.
Counter is now Future Vision, basically Shulk's Down B.
She gets cut
Final Smash is Hydro Storm
Gets Ike's Side Special
Down B is Clone, which has her summon a clone of herself. It'll move around the stage as Damus normally would but it'll be destroyed in a single hit. Pressing Down B again will have the clone move towards the opponent and pressing it again near them will have her execute a random tilt or aerial if she's in the air

Too late, it's trademarked already

I dig the suggestions for Chrom to be insta-KO’d by a falcon punch, and for dark samus’s clone move.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm convinced he'll be one of the first DLC characters.

Watch they make him into a boss. It'll be Waluigi all over again.

 

[Exalt4747]

I think this is the best way to do echoes as DLC, by packaging them with a related newcomer - either the character they're echoing or someone from a similar game. Plus we could get really interesting echoes as a result.

"Tails joins the #SuperSmashBros Ultimate roster complete with flight powers and an air grab! Joining him is Shadow, who is Sonic's echo fighter. He has a teleport recovery move, vanishes when he dodges and skates along the ground, rivaling Sonic's speed! Pick up these fighters next week on the eShop.

"Coming soon to #SuperSmashBros Ultimate, it's Edelgard from #FireEmblemThreeHouses. Her fighting style with an axe sets her apart from anyone else in Smash! Also coming with Edelgard is Celica, Robin's echo fighter. Her tomes can be used without limits, but she will damage herself with each cast so watch out."

This all sounds good.

 

[Shroob]

How long of a wait was it after 'NEW' disappeared and we got Isabelle?

Actually forgot.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don’t get how Zard, Cloud and Simon would be Gryffindor. I feel they’d be Slytherin or Ravenclaw. I’m not too savvy on the Potter stuff, but I’ve been bombarded on Facebook a few times.

Gryffindor's main value is bravery so I kind of figured that'd be a good place for a JRPG hero and a vampire slayer. I admittedly don't actually know much about Simon or Cloud though, they could fit into other houses.

"Bravery and loyalty" I feel tends to apply to pokemon in general, being loyal battle companions.

 

[Takasmash]

Source? Or is this a prediction? If so, I agree with your choices.

Prediction

 

[Jetsurge]

A roster prediction that still includes Skull Kid? AND as the final reveal?

I'm a huge Skull Kid fan and even I've lost hope for base roster. I'm convinced he'll be one of the first DLC characters.

I think Skull Kid/Majora will be a boss transforming into all of his/her boss forms and the Moon will be one of his/her attacks.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

You tossing the piss? Shadow is laaaaaaaaaaaame!

I don't see too much point in debating character preference.

Shadow, Tails & Robotnik/Eggman are all worthy additions, the former two look much more likely. I think we can keep it at that.

 

[monadoboy]

Anyone asked for a Lora moveset? No? I'll do it anyway:

Spoiler: Moveset

Team Lora Drives In!​

Want unique characters? Want female characters? Weapon variety? Ice and wind and fire? She's got it all!​

So basically I came up with a way to represent both of the main aspects of combat in Xenoblade Chronicles 2: The Driver/Blade relationship and Blade Combos with Lora thanks to the streamlined gameplay in the Torna expansion.
In Xenoblade 2, Drivers are the player controlled characters, and Blades are support, giving their weapon to their Driver. Attacks are divided in three: auto attacks, Driver Arts, and Specials. For Driver Arts, the Driver attacks and may inflict statuses, etc. There are Driver Art Combos, but I'll skip those for Lora. Specials fill when sufficient Driver Arts are performed, and when used, the Driver passes the weapon to the Blade so they can perform their attack. Specials come in Level I, II, III and IV. You get Level II by performing Arts when the Level I Special is ready, etc.

These specials chain up in what's called Blade Combos, I'll just paste the explanation from the wiki:

Blade Combos are battle mechanics in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. They are combined Specials with specified elements performed by Blades. By successfully chaining Specials together to continue the Blade Combo, the damage dealt to enemies increases, and one of the enemy's abilities can be sealed to cause certain effects on enemy or allies. If three Blade Specials are successfully linked, an elemental orb corresponding to the last element in the combo will circle the enemy, giving the enemy added resistance to that element. These orbs can be removed during a Chain Attack.

To contribute to the combo, the Special used must be equal to or greater than the combo level. For example, if an enemy suffers "Heat" and the player wants to use Water to cause "Steam Bomb" (see the table below), the Water Special must be of level 2 or higher. In the same way, for the third element of a Blade Combo, the Special used must be at level 3 or higher. If a Special is below the required level, there will be no extra effect, and the effect gauge will not be refilled.

Using a Special from an attribute that cannot contribute to a Blade Combo will not change the effect. To begin another route for a Blade combo, the player must wait until the effect expires or they must extend the current combo to its third stage. It is also important to note that using a Special at a level higher than the current combo stage will not serve to advance more quickly. For example, if the player uses a level 3 Fire Special on an enemy with no Blade Combo effect yet, it will not inflict "Mega Explosion" automatically, but rather begin at stage 1 with "Heat".

The Torna expansion changes this up. Each Special grants elemental orbs instead of having to complete the Blade Combo, and you can link all the specials in a Blade Combo regardless of their element. It also changes the way Drivers and Blades interact. Drivers have their own weapons, like Lora's Braid (functions like a whip of sorts, and she uses punches and kicks for like 90% of her attacks) and they have an element and Specials of their own, too. You cans switch the Driver for any of the two Blades they have and play as the Blade, too.

But for the moveset, I tried to incorporate a way to use a little of both systems:

Main points:

• Team Lora fights by utilizing Lora's Braid, Jin's katana and Haze's staff, with Lora using her Blade's weapons for different attacks. Weapons in Xenoblade Chronicles X are made of ether and can disappear, so for any move, the weapon will flash and appear in her hands, then vanish.
• Each of Lora's Blade attacks will grant the enemy an elemental Orb, Ice for Jin, Wind for Haze. Extremely convenient, since those two are opposing elements and break each other. The element orbs are just small orbs that orbit around the character, light blue for ice, green for wind. When a character that has a wind orb orbiting them is hit with an ice attack, the orb smashes and deals extra damage and knockback. The last Blade that grants her a weapon stays in the background like Pokemon Trainer, switches whenever Lora uses the other Blade

Now, for the moveset:

• Jab - Standard jab using her auto attack animations: A backhanded slap, a kick and two quick punches.
• Forward tilt - A swift kick
• Up tilt - waves her Braid upwards in an arc, has a flame effect
• Down tilt - a low sweeping kick, the same in her Path of Thorns art
• Dash attack - lunges and stabs with Haze's staff (second option: a kick, third option: a slash with the katana)
• Forward Smash: Summons Jin's katana and slashes forward, grants an ice element orb, breaks a wind orb
• Up Smash: Spins Haze's staff overhead, grants a wind element orb, breaks an ice orb
• Down Smash: Spins her whip around her like one of her Arts, flame effect
• Neutral air: A Smash 64 neutral air fits her fine
• Forward Air: Swipes with her Braid in a quick motion from up to down, has a fire effect
• Back air: Stabs behind with Haze's staff, grants a wind element orb, breaks an ice orb
• Up air: Swipes Jin's katana overhead like the Fire Emblem characters, grants an ice element orb, breaks a wind orb
• Down air: Stomps, then does a swipe kick downwards that has a spike effect
• Grab air: a tether with her Braid
• Grab: a tether grab, holds opponents in place instead of pulling them to her, like this:

​

• Pummel: Fire burns the poor character that's bound by the Braid
• Forward throw: Lora pulls the character in and smacks them with a drop kick
• Down throw: Lora smacks them against the ground in place and they slam upwards
• Back throw: Pulls them in like her F throw, but lets them fly back instead of kicking them
• Up throw: Pulls them in and punches them upwards

The specials:

• Neutral special: Holding Jin's katana, she summons a shard of ice that stays in place and zooms forward after a moment, ice orb/breaks wind orb
• Down special: Using Haze's staff, she summons a whirlwind around her, like Cloud's, but is a multihit move with little knockback, wind orb, breaks ice orb
• Side special: Holding Jin's katana, she swipes it upwards and sends a shockwave running across the stage, similar to Cloud's neutral, but shorter length. Ice orb, breaks wind orb (I thought of using Haze's Talent Art here, that would be basically Witch Time, so nope)
• Up special: Using Haze's staff she summons a whirlwind and flies upwards. wind orb/breaks ice

Final Smash: Level IV Special: Haze jumps into the stage and blasts ether around her, whoever is caught is held in place as if weakened by Haze's power and gets beat up by Jin and Lora's Level IV Special.

Other:

Victory quote: "I fight for my friends!" (Really, it's one of her level up/after battle quotes)
Idle: slaps her face and pumps herself up
Taunt: the full version of her idle in Torna

Stage: The Capital of Torna. With this as a background:

Songs:

Some relevant screenshots:

I know she's late, obviously, but for DLC and a hypothetical ballot? She's got my vote.

 

[Deleted member]

You tossing the piss? Shadow is laaaaaaaaaaaame!

No, he's the coolest.

 

[Luigi The President]

Gryffindor's main value is bravery so I kind of figured that'd be a good place for a JRPG hero and a vampire slayer. I admittedly don't actually know much about Simon or Cloud though, they could fit into other houses.

"Bravery and loyalty" I feel tends to apply to pokemon in general, being loyal battle companions.

Cloud and Simon absolutely fit Gryff, no question.

 

[Nap_]

Shantae will be an AT. My bet. In Jammies Mode she insist a lot in her ULTIMATE PARTY, looks like trolling. Playable? Very unlikely in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

X is more popular than Y in Japan always makes me laugh because it implies Japanese popularity is the be all end all argument for newcomers.

 

[Exalt4747]

Anyone asked for a Lora moveset? No? I'll do it anyway:

Spoiler: Moveset

Team Lora Drives In!​

Want unique characters? Want female characters? Weapon variety? Ice and wind and fire? She's got it all!​

So basically I came up with a way to represent both of the main aspects of combat in Xenoblade Chronicles 2: The Driver/Blade relationship and Blade Combos with Lora thanks to the streamlined gameplay in the Torna expansion.
In Xenoblade 2, Drivers are the player controlled characters, and Blades are support, giving their weapon to their Driver. Attacks are divided in three: auto attacks, Driver Arts, and Specials. For Driver Arts, the Driver attacks and may inflict statuses, etc. There are Driver Art Combos, but I'll skip those for Lora. Specials fill when sufficient Driver Arts are performed, and when used, the Driver passes the weapon to the Blade so they can perform their attack. Specials come in Level I, II, III and IV. You get Level II by performing Arts when the Level I Special is ready, etc.

These specials chain up in what's called Blade Combos, I'll just paste the explanation from the wiki:



The Torna expansion changes this up. Each Special grants elemental orbs instead of having to complete the Blade Combo, and you can link all the specials in a Blade Combo regardless of their element. It also changes the way Drivers and Blades interact. Drivers have their own weapons, like Lora's Braid (functions like a whip of sorts, and she uses punches and kicks for like 90% of her attacks) and they have an element and Specials of their own, too. You cans switch the Driver for any of the two Blades they have and play as the Blade, too.

But for the moveset, I tried to incorporate a way to use a little of both systems:

Main points:

• Team Lora fights by utilizing Lora's Braid, Jin's katana and Haze's staff, with Lora using her Blade's weapons for different attacks. Weapons in Xenoblade Chronicles X are made of ether and can disappear, so for any move, the weapon will flash and appear in her hands, then vanish.
• Each of Lora's Blade attacks will grant the enemy an elemental Orb, Ice for Jin, Wind for Haze. Extremely convenient, since those two are opposing elements and break each other. The element orbs are just small orbs that orbit around the character, light blue for ice, green for wind. When a character that has a wind orb orbiting them is hit with an ice attack, the orb smashes and deals extra damage and knockback. The last Blade that grants her a weapon stays in the background like Pokemon Trainer, switches whenever Lora uses the other Blade

Now, for the moveset:

• Jab - Standard jab using her auto attack animations: A backhanded slap, a kick and two quick punches.
• Forward tilt - A swift kick
• Up tilt - waves her Braid upwards in an arc, has a flame effect
• Down tilt - a low sweeping kick, the same in her Path of Thorns art
• Dash attack - lunges and stabs with Haze's staff (second option: a kick, third option: a slash with the katana)
• Forward Smash: Summons Jin's katana and slashes forward, grants an ice element orb, breaks a wind orb
• Up Smash: Spins Haze's staff overhead, grants a wind element orb, breaks an ice orb
• Down Smash: Spins her whip around her like one of her Arts, flame effect
• Neutral air: A Smash 64 neutral air fits her fine
• Forward Air: Swipes with her Braid in a quick motion from up to down, has a fire effect
• Back air: Stabs behind with Haze's staff, grants a wind element orb, breaks an ice orb
• Up air: Swipes Jin's katana overhead like the Fire Emblem characters, grants an ice element orb, breaks a wind orb
• Down air: Stomps, then does a swipe kick downwards that has a spike effect
• Grab air: a tether with her Braid
• Grab: a tether grab, holds opponents in place instead of pulling them to her, like this:

​

• Pummel: Fire burns the poor character that's bound by the Braid
• Forward throw: Lora pulls the character in and smacks them with a drop kick
• Down throw: Lora smacks them against the ground in place and they slam upwards
• Back throw: Pulls them in like her F throw, but lets them fly back instead of kicking them
• Up throw: Pulls them in and punches them upwards

The specials:

• Neutral special: Holding Jin's katana, she summons a shard of ice that stays in place and zooms forward after a moment, ice orb/breaks wind orb
• Down special: Using Haze's staff, she summons a whirlwind around her, like Cloud's, but is a multihit move with little knockback, wind orb, breaks ice orb
• Side special: Holding Jin's katana, she swipes it upwards and sends a shockwave running across the stage, similar to Cloud's neutral, but shorter length. Ice orb, breaks wind orb (I thought of using Haze's Talent Art here, that would be basically Witch Time, so nope)
• Up special: Using Haze's staff she summons a whirlwind and flies upwards. wind orb/breaks ice

Final Smash: Level IV Special: Haze jumps into the stage and blasts ether around her, whoever is caught is held in place as if weakened by Haze's power and gets beat up by Jin and Lora's Level IV Special.

Other:

Victory quote: "I fight for my friends!" (Really, it's one of her level up/after battle quotes)
Idle: slaps her face and pumps herself up
Taunt: the full version of her idle in Torna

Stage: The Capital of Torna. With this as a background:

Songs:

Some relevant screenshots:

I know she's late, obviously, but for DLC and a hypothetical ballot? She's got my vote.

I still need to play the base game even, but I like her design.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Gryffindor's main value is bravery so I kind of figured that'd be a good place for a JRPG hero and a vampire slayer. I admittedly don't actually know much about Simon or Cloud though, they could fit into other houses.

"Bravery and loyalty" I feel tends to apply to pokemon in general, being loyal battle companions.

Cloud was brave, but loyalty wasn’t really his thing. He nearly left the rest of the characters to go find a better way to make money. He also only ever helped them so he could get paid. Cloud isn’t a nice person.

Simon does the righteous thing, but he’s grimly serious.m and I don’t know how he is with the rest of humanity. Judging from some of his ancestors and his descendants, I’d say he’s more of a zealot and probably not too pleasant to be around.

 

[Deleted member]

With Shantae though unlike Shovel Knight. She has quite some history with Nintendo going back to the Game Boy Color games. That's the only thing she has over him that could possibility get in the game.

That "history" really means nothing in the long run.

She had one game decades ago that had an average cult following. Big whoop.
What is that really worth to Sakurai/Nintendo?

 

[Polan]

posting my final roster prediction. mock it if you want, it's all 100% correct anyway according to my uncle.

Spoiler

i'm assuming that the box theory is a ****, vergeben is right, and that 4chan leak that Opossum posted that had Celica is correct (she's mostly there because i needed one more character to get a perfect box. also fe salt). Elma and Shadow are my own predictions.

and yes i know that sakurai said only a few more reveals left. i'm running under the assumption that he was mostly talking about numbered, unique newcomers. there's like only 3 more unique newcomers left in my roster (incineroar, geno and elma) so his comment about only a few more would still apply. echoes just kind of inflate that number.

 

[Luigi The President]

Cloud was brave, but loyalty wasn’t really his thing. He nearly left the rest of the characters to go find a better way to make money. He also only ever helped them so he could get paid. Cloud isn’t a nice person.

Simon does the righteous thing, but he’s grimly serious.m and I don’t know how he is with the rest of humanity. Judging from some of his ancestors and his descendants, I’d say he’s more of a zealot and probably not too pleasant to be around.

You'd likely know more Cloud than I, but Simon is firmly a Gryff imo. Dedicated himself to doing the right thing, carried it out to the very end. Plus...look at the damn guy. That's a genuine Chad. Serious or not, that boy's a Gryff.

 

[Potato_]

X is more popular than Y in Japan always makes me laugh because it implies Japanese popularity is the be all end all argument for newcomers.

Weren't Ridley and Cloud not really that big of a deal in Japan? Obviously when they were revealed they were, but I mean in people wanting the character.

That right there would be enough to disprove the Japanese popularity thing, not to mention the fact that Shovel Knight is in this damn game.

Watch they make him into a boss. It'll be Waluigi all over again.

No, it'll be Ridley all over again. Which I went through. Before. Multiple times.

I don't want to go through it again tyvm.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Speaking of Robotnik/Eggman....

https://twitter.com/SSF1991/status/1041861714411761664

 

[Astroworld]

>Keep Chrom but delete Lucina and Richter

i don’t get why you’d want to delete any characters. Just don’t use them if you don’t like them

 

[Michael the Spikester]

it's all 100% correct anyway according to my uncle.

Does your uncle work for Nintendo?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Cloud was brave, but loyalty wasn’t really his thing. He nearly left the rest of the characters to go find a better way to make money. He also only ever helped them so he could get paid. Cloud isn’t a nice person.

Simon does the righteous thing, but he’s grimly serious.m and I don’t know how he is with the rest of humanity. Judging from some of his ancestors and his descendants, I’d say he’s more of a zealot and probably not too pleasant to be around.

Cloud's "meaner" persona was him acting cool before he got his memory stuff all back.

He's actually one of the biggest dorks ever, not that AC or KH want you to know that.

 

[LetterO]

I'm like the one person who was sad Knuckles is an AT and not playable. I would've preferred him more than Shadow and Tails.

 

[Nethermoosen]

You'd likely know more Cloud than I, but Simon is firmly a Gryff imo. Dedicated himself to doing the right thing, carried it out to the very end. Plus...look at the damn guy. That's a genuine Chad. Serious or not, that boy's a Gryff.

Well, you would Trump me on Simon most likely. I don’t know a lot about him specifically.

Cloud is not what people probably think he is. He was a ****. He helped Tifa and Barret’s group Avalanche that blew up these reactors that were killing the planet.
Cloud said all the time he didn’t give a **** and just wanted that dough.

Sephiroth is the reason he ends up going all the way with the party. He idolized Sephiroth before he burned down his hometown.

Not only that, but Cloud’s motives are difficult to discern because at any point he could have been under the influence of...spoiler thing....and not even been aware of it.

It’s hard to tell if that’s even the real Cloud.

 

[Will]

Speaking of Robotnik/Eggman....

https://twitter.com/SSF1991/status/1041861714411761664

View attachment 165046

what am i supposed to be looking at

 

[pupNapoleon]

So one thing me and my sisters have always had fun doing is arguing over which Hogwarts houses characters fit into, so I figured I'd do it for Smash.

I like this idea.

Gryffindor:

Slythern:

Hufflepuff:

Ravenclaw: ultrosalina:

I'm quite surprised with how evenly the list turned out for me.