Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

If you want to argue that Goku is a big enough character that he should be given a shot at Smash despite his origins, I'll give you he's certainly one of the few big enough to be given that privilege.

But I would then argue that no, he shouldn't be put into the game. People are allowed to want him, I'm allowed to tell them that's a stupid idea. I literally have no problem with any random character getting in, as long as the Smash team/Nintendo/Sakurai actually keep a bit of integrity and stick to what the franchise was actually supposed to be at its core. A celebration of gaming. Not a celebration of multimedia characters who get celebrated more than often enough in their own original mediums.

Goku in Smash, as huge as that would be, is by far the biggest shark jump Nintendo could pull.

And if it ever happens, I'd genuinely loose respect for them for doing it.

Again, I get why people want the character, I get why he's so close to so many hearts, I don't even dislike him, I love me some DBFighterz, but it's still a stupid idea.

And I entirely agree with you. That is what I'm arguing, so thank you. I think Goku being put in is a stupid idea, and I also think Cloud was a stupid idea. But the absolute "he can't be in Smash, end of story" argument is something I want to see tossed away so people can simply state their opinions in a non-objective way, like they usually do with every other character idea.

There's a difference between "I don't want that character because I don't like him" and "your opinion is wrong because them's the rules!"

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Also the special edition is the only smash bros related item with an ESRB rating on it right now...
And it has a different description than the actual official amazon listing for the game with some weird grammatical errors.

View attachment 164561

It also doesn't have the same warranty info, even though the controller listing does...
I might be losing my mind but this is VERY fishy.

Cue "The X Files" theme!

 

[Deleted member]

Made a line-up of characters consisting of third-party characters from worldwide popular franchises out of pure boredom. Ignoring the unrealistic size of the 3rd party roster, how would guys react if this was the final third-party line-up, assuming that all 18 of these get gradually added from base game to DLC?

View attachment 164557

The problem is that I'd slice off a good chunk of them right out of the gate. While you could argue about Frogger having the same legacy as Pac-Man, outside of being the highlight of George Costanza's life, what exactly does Frogger have in pop culture? Also, Frogger never became the mascot of it's parent company, and if anything, was one of the first IPs to suffer the fate of being bounced around aimlessly from holder to holder that didn't know what to do with it besides throwing it into whatever flavor of the month gaming fad was going on.

As far as I'm concerned, the only possible contenders for third party support in base game or as DLC would be Heihachi, Rayman, Lloyd, and a Monster Hunter, with slim picking choices for a Bethesda rep (either the Dragonborn or Doom Marine).

 

[ErenJager]

Quick question. Batman has 40 games to himself over multiple platofrms over the last 20+ years, has appeared in at least 16 other games where he wasn't the main character, and has starred in 12 mobile games.

Is Batman a videogame character?

I'll answer for those of you who would actually ponder this.

The answer is no.

No he is not.

Batman is a Comic book character. No matter how many games he's in; no matter how many times he's been on any given console. Batman is a Comic Book character. Not a Movie character, not a Videogame Character.

The same goes for Goku. I can't believe this is even debatable. This 'debate' is Gamefaqs levels of stupid.

If you want to argue that Sakurai may not always adhere to his 'video game only' character rule, fine. He's violated what he's wanted to do for Smash before and it's definitely possible he could eventually lift that restriction eventually.

But to argue that Goku has a chance because he's a game character is wrong; this is not an opinion, this is fact: GOKU IS NOT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER. He is a Manga character who has multiple anime series, movies, and games devoted to him.

I think you mean he didnt originate as a video game character.

When you play as Goku in a video game... He's literally a character in a video game... Hence a videp game character.

There was a decade were the manga and anime ended and it was just games.

 

[Momotsuki]

Honestly, Geno's reveal is what it would take to really push me over the edge to the point of being totally OK with Goku's inclusion.

 

[Dee Dude]

Hey guys, back from work. What’s going on-

*Goku discussion*

 

[Slavic]

Talking politics online always amounts to complete firestorms. Look at Twitter.

And I don't why know Goku is being brought up. He's literally impossible to be in.

That's what I'm saying, Goku conversations make political discourse look tame

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks to everyone who played along with my Banjo inquiry earlier. I guess I really knew nothing about him lol. Seems like he could be a neat character. I’d still put in Halo before him just as a personal preference, but I do see more of the appeal of Banjo now.

 

[Pakky]

I'm gone for a day and I miss 50 pages.

What did I miss?

Goku is in the box...

 

[Knight Dude]

So.....you guys want to talk about Tekken? Heihachi was considered for a brief period, and had of Mii costume in the game too. Jin's also the other posterboy for the series too. And he also offers some sick moves like his Grandpa. There's even a bit of presence on the Nintendo systems given Tekken Advance, Tekken 3D Prime and Tekken Tag 2. Not to mention the Project X Zone games.

Nah, but seriously, a Tekken character in Smash would be great. There's also Yoshimitsu as a dark horse choice, since he's got both Tekken and Soul Calibur to pull moves and costumes from.

 

[Ultinarok]

Gonna get a Switch down the road and this game as well. As for amiibos. I intend to especially get Ridley and K. Rool. Also Bowser, Duck Hunt, King Dedede and Rosalina & Luma if I can find them.

I've got the retro bundle of amiibos with ROB, Duck Hunt and G&W. Never cared that much for them honestly, always saw them as glorified action figures. But the prospect of creating FPs of these three trolly characters was appealing so I made a rare buy.

 

[Paperchampion23]

If it is the case I'm incline to believe VergeBen's claim. Incineroar would be fighter 69 and Geno (Or any other SE rep) would be fighter 70. Not including echos rounds out to 70 unique fighters.

Well hey, It's SMRPG- Legend of the 7 Stars though I personally think we'll get more than 70 tbh, 2 more uniques with 3 more months of promotion seems small

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I've got the retro bundle of amiibos with ROB, Duck Hunt and G&W. Never cared that much for them honestly, always saw them as glorified action figures. But the prospect of creating FPs of these three trolly characters was appealing so I made a rare buy.

Assuming the amiibo unlock thing is true. I wonder if in response to Ultimate's release they'll re-release Smash amiibos as a commemoration or make new amiibos of characters from previous installments for Ultimate.

 

[Exalt4747]

And I entirely agree with you. That is what I'm arguing, so thank you. I think Goku being put in is a stupid idea, and I also think Cloud was a stupid idea. But the absolute "he can't be in Smash, end of story" argument is something I want to see tossed away so people can simply state their opinions in a non-objective way, like they usually do with every other character idea.

There's a difference between "I don't want that character because I don't like him" and "your opinion is wrong because them's the rules!"

Why was Cloud a "stupid idea"?

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

Literally every time I come back here, people are arguing about Goku. Either people REALLY want him in, and can't understand why it wouldn't work, or they will riot in the streets if he's included, it seems.

 

[staindgrey]

Lloyd, Leon and Sora? Hot damn, I'm sold.

I'm surprised Leon doesn't have a bigger fanbase here, what with RE4's immense popularity and RE2's remake coming in just a few months.

 

[ErenJager]

Goku is in the box...

#69 Goku

Right beside Isabelle.

 

[Chrono.]

To bring up an interesting game.

Do you have any Smash related amiibo? If yes do you plan on doing some early character unlocks or are you going to do them the old fashioned way?

I only got Pit.

I planned on getting both Pit bros but Dark Pit kept avoiding me.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Oh yeah, I don't think this has been brought up but...
The Smash Bundle releases on November 2nd and it has the mural art in its back, which means it WILL have all characters in it. Now why is this important? Because it means our final reveal needs to be before that, and it can't even be early November(as in, November 1st) as these things will be getting shipped before that.
Conclusion: we'll be getting the final reveal in October as it NEEDS to be in order to not get leaked.
And if all we have is final Smash presentation(since it's too early for another general Direct), then it's really likely it's just Incineroar and Ken(and maybe Verge's Square rep, likely Geno, as I think one unique would be odd after 8/8)

This doesn't have to mean that. The final characters could very well just not be on the packaging, even if they are revealed.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well hey, It's SMRPG- Legend of the 7 Stars though I personally think we'll get more than 70 tbh, 2 more uniques with 3 more months of promotion seems small

Heh good catch there.

Do hope your right but even then we'll surely be getting DLC so more characters will still be covered never the less.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

And I entirely agree with you. That is what I'm arguing, so thank you. I think Goku being put in is a stupid idea, and I also think Cloud was a stupid idea. But the absolute "he can't be in Smash, end of story" argument is something I want to see tossed away so people can simply state their opinions in a non-objective way, like they usually do with every other character idea.

There's a difference between "I don't want that character because I don't like him" and "your opinion is wrong because them's the rules!"

Alright fair enough. The only rule of Smash is there are no rules. Character selection speculation is a massive game of Calvin Ball where we're trying to wrap our heads around the mind of a man who thought putting Game&Watch into his second Nintendo brawler party game would be a good idea, and more than that actually got it to work.

He does what he wants, and he changes his mind when it suits him.

You think Cloud was dumb, I'm one of those who think we may have one unique FE character too many. Sakurai doesn't have a 100 percent batting average with his decision making.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

#69 Goku

Right beside Isabelle.

Literal vomit.

 

[Deleted member]

Quick question. Batman has 40 games to himself over multiple platofrms over the last 20+ years, has appeared in at least 16 other games where he wasn't the main character, and has starred in 12 mobile games.

Is Batman a videogame character?

I'll answer for those of you who would actually ponder this.

The answer is no.

No he is not.

Batman is a Comic book character. No matter how many games he's in; no matter how many times he's been on any given console. Batman is a Comic Book character. Not a Movie character, not a Videogame Character.

The same goes for Goku. I can't believe this is even debatable. This 'debate' is Gamefaqs levels of stupid.

If you want to argue that Sakurai may not always adhere to his 'video game only' character rule, fine. He's violated what he's wanted to do for Smash before and it's definitely possible he could eventually lift that restriction eventually.

But to argue that Goku has a chance because he's a game character is wrong; this is not an opinion, this is fact: GOKU IS NOT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER. He is a Manga character who has multiple anime series, movies, and games devoted to him.

Batman would kick Goku's ass in the DC Universe because Batman is stronger than Superman, Darkseid, Shazam, and Mongul combined. That's what decades of bad writing and over-dependence on one IP can do for your brand.

I made a thread about Goku for Ultimate's discussion. Let's try to keep it there, okay?

 

[Starbound]

Made a line-up of characters consisting of third-party characters from worldwide popular franchises out of pure boredom. Ignoring the unrealistic size of the 3rd party roster, how would guys react if this was the final third-party line-up, assuming that all 18 of these get gradually added from base game to DLC?

View attachment 164557

Don't know why you have Layton but not Phoenix Wright.

They are on pretty equal levels imo.

Who's the guy in the bottom left?

I would also add Doomguy, given it's the pioneer of the shooter genre that's still going strong.

I don't think Frogger is on the same level of characters you've got, as his series has kinda died out since the arcade. I'm also not convinced Layton is big enough either.

Props for including Resident Evil though.

 

[monadoboy]

To bring up an interesting game.

Do you have any Smash related amiibo? If yes do you plan on doing some early character unlocks or are you going to do them the old fashioned way?

I'm tempted to open my Shulk amiibo... It depends on how they unlock, though. If it isn't something fun then maybe I'll unlock the Zelda and FE casts (minus Corrin and Young Link, never managed to get the amiibo). Also maybe Inkling, since I randomly got the og Inkling amiibo. Other than that I have Lucario, Meta Knight, ROB, Duck Hunt and Pac-Man.

I forgot I had Pac-Man until I checked my shelf... It's not the first time I forget him...

 

[RandomAce]

Oh yeah, I don't think this has been brought up but...
The Smash Bundle releases on November 2nd and it has the mural art in its back, which means it WILL have all characters in it. Now why is this important? Because it means our final reveal needs to be before that, and it can't even be early November(as in, November 1st) as these things will be getting shipped before that.
Conclusion: we'll be getting the final reveal in October as it NEEDS to be in order to not get leaked.
And if all we have is final Smash presentation(since it's too early for another general Direct), then it's really likely it's just Incineroar and Ken(and maybe Verge's Square rep, likely Geno, as I think one unique would be odd after 8/8)

This is interesting...

Although, I see Nintendo always shipping out stuff even though it’s “incomplete”.

Honestly, I think Nintendo will just ship it out in the current state it is when they release it. They probably have some reveals they have planned for October/November in order to move the hype along a consistent pace.

 

[praline]

If the amiibos do auto unlock the characters I might just have to open my Daisy amiibo

 

[Deleted member]

Don't know why you have Layton but not Phoenix Wright.

They are on pretty equal levels imo.

Who's the guy in the bottom left?

I would also add Doomguy, given it's the pioneer of the shooter genre that's still going strong.

I don't think Frogger is on the same level of characters you've got, as his series has kinda died out since the arcade. I'm also not convinced Layton is big enough either.

Props for including Resident Evil though.

Another problem with Professor Layton is that he's not the only big property Level 5 has. There's this thing called Yo-Kai Watch, which while having flamed out in spectacular fashion in the past two years, was massive from 2012-2015 in Japan.

 

[staindgrey]

Why was Cloud a "stupid idea"?

Because Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's characters. And Cloud is not a Nintendo-related character. Putting him in opened the floodgates of people wanting everyone on these forums, and I preferred it when it was Nintendo-only.

Plus I'm just not very fun with these cameo characters, I guess. I still don't get why Noctis and the dude from The Walking Dead are in Tekken 7.

 

[Ultinarok]

Thanks to everyone who played along with my Banjo inquiry earlier. I guess I really knew nothing about him lol. Seems like he could be a neat character. I’d still put in Halo before him just as a personal preference, but I do see more of the appeal of Banjo now.

Everything Banjo has.

But eh just doesnt shoot aleins.

 

[MysticKnives]

Goku discussion? I’m all in for that.

 

[Luigi The President]

Another problem with Professor Layton is that he's not the only big property Level 5 has. There's this thing called Yo-Kai Watch, which while having flamed out in spectacular fashion in the past two years, was massive from 2012-2015 in Japan.

As you said, it flamed out. Layton has been a pretty well-loved and successful series for a long long time. I don't ever see him in Smash tho.
But also who the hell put Layton over Phoenix Wright

 

[ErenJager]

Goku vs. Ryu

C'mon

Reason enough right there.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ugh we just talk about anything else that ISN'T Goku...-_-

To think I started this whole debate all over again.

 

[Exalt4747]

Because Smash is a celebration of Nintendo's characters. And Cloud is not a Nintendo-related character. Putting him in opened the floodgates of people wanting everyone on these forums, and I preferred it when it was Nintendo-only.

Plus I'm just not very fun with these cameo characters, I guess. I still don't get why Noctis and the dude from The Walking Dead are in Tekken 7.

So how was that not already violated by Sonic's presence?

 

[Deleted member]

Batman would kick Goku's *** in the DC Universe because Batman is stronger than Superman, Darkseid, Shazam, and Mongul combined. That's what decades of bad writing and over-dependence on one IP can do for your brand.

I made a thread about Goku for Ultimate's discussion. Let's try to keep it there, okay?

lol fair enough; just felt like I needed to get that out.

Its going to be pretty dry here for the next month, so I'll probably just avoid it for the next 3 weeks until its closer to the next speculated reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

Everything Banjo has.

But eh just doesnt shoot aleins.

He also afraids of things. Halo doesn’t afraid of anything.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

He also afraids of things. Halo doesn’t afraid of anything.

My Banjo is too dumb to fear.

 

[Noipoi]

To bring up an interesting game.

Do you have any Smash related amiibo? If yes do you plan on doing some early character unlocks or are you going to do them the old fashioned way?

Nope!
I wanna unlock every character the way Sakurai intended!
Also I only have Pac-Man, Lucario and Inkling. I'm not gonna spoil the thrill of unlocking my Ultimate main .

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Made a line-up of characters consisting of third-party characters from worldwide popular franchises out of pure boredom. Ignoring the unrealistic size of the 3rd party roster, how would guys react if this was the final third-party line-up, assuming that all 18 of these get gradually added from base game to DLC?

View attachment 164557

Needs more Lara Croft

Edit: also rayman