Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Momotsuki]

Even if every human on the planet had the same opinion on something it would not ever become a fact.

Not if Big Brother has anything to say about that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah, the idea didn't make sense to me either but when you look at the two and compare them whats the difference? Origin. That's all it is! How can origin be the thing that riles people up so bad? I don't get it but whatever. Realistically Goku will never be in Smash and I couldn't care less anyway.

I'm mostly just having fun with the argument at this point.

And My Hero is amazing. Haven't liked a Shonen Jump anime in a while but that ones alright.

Especially when said protagonist is by far much better then any other shonen protagonist combined. Izuku is so realistic and believable nor isn't an idiot protagonist like Naruto and Luffy. He's already warranted a spot on my top 11 favorite characters list.

 

[NintenZ]

I mean, if you guys really want Goku in Smash... You sorta got your wish granted:

(Granted not your ideal wish but you got it nonetheless)

 

[Ultinarok]

Y'all are unbelievable we are really out here debating Goku AGAIN literally days after we got Isabelle in this game and a piping hot new theory

I just find it rather unfair how many people treat Goku supporters. Even if he has no chance, there's plenty of reason to believe that that can change. I just find the hostility unnecessary. This is the same community that literally brought a character back from the dead. I don't see a reason why they couldn't push Goku over the edge one day, if they really wanted to.

 

[Luigi The President]

I just find it rather unfair how many people treat Goku supporters. Even if he has no chance, there's plenty of reason to believe that that can change. I just find the hostility unnecessary. This is the same community that literally brought a character back from the dead. I don't see a reason why they couldn't push Goku over the edge one day, if they really wanted to.

I have chosen not to respond to this comment but I have acknowledged it
Best of luck in your Goku ventures

 

[Iridium]

I mean, if you guys really want Goku in Smash... You sorta got your wish granted:
View attachment 164554
(Granted not your ideal wish but you got it nonetheless)

And then there's Luffy, Naruto and Ichigo there too. That game covers a lot when it comes to that.

 

[Murlough]

I realize you don't seem to think it explains anything, but he definitely makes a distinction between video game characters and manga characters. Don't you notice that in itself is important?

Anyway, other people have made a more direct answer to your questions (that you haven't acknowledged), I was just adding on.

Do you prefer the box arguing because thats still just arguing for the sake of arguing. :T Ya'll wanted to move from that and I am doing my best. You don't like it? You make a subject!

I've addressed everyone who quoted me as far as I know.

And I didn't see the distinction he made, you mind explaining?

EDIT: FYI to the thread. Ya'll are always arguing. There is nothing wrong with that. Don't get all testy with me because I openly admit to enjoying a good debate. Arguing is not an inherently bad thing.

 

[RandomAce]

Also, does Corrin have some new voice clips, or no?

No...

But they actually implemented a voice line that was unused in Smash 4, Corrin’s high knockback line.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Well, no ****. I didn't try arguing otherwise. I'm saying he also could be considering a video game character. You can be more than one classification you know?

I wouldn't go into it since the slope is very slippery. I'll just stick to my opinion that Goku should not be in Smash.

 

[Pakky]

You kind of dodged every single thing I said to beat the same long-dead horse that everyone's been saying the whole time, but that's fine I suppose.

The point is that its ok to support Goku. There's one controversial thing that holds back Goku. There's several that hold back Geno. If people can rave about Geno all day long, they should also be allowed to want Goku and discuss him. End of. There's no reason everyone should be giving Goku supporters or fans hell about this.

There's not really anything to dodge, to be frank.

Support who you wish but be aware of the stakes.

 

[Murlough]

I wouldn't go into it since the slope is very slippery. I'll just stick to my opinion that Goku should not be in Smash.

Fair enough. I can't argue with an opinion. I also wouldn't because I don't want Goku in Smash either.

 

[staindgrey]

Well, no ****. I didn't try arguing otherwise. I'm saying he also could be considering a video game character. You can be more than one classification you know?

I get what you're saying. And even though I personally don't want Goku in, I agree with you.

Lara Croft is a "video game character". But there are still tons of people aware of her from being played by Angelina Jolie in two blockbuster movies. To them, she's a movie character. She's also got four huge omnibuses of comic books that span the last twenty years. Is she a comic book character now?

Sonic has had multiple American Saturday morning cartoons, an anime, another western CGI show and one of the longest running comic book series ever. Is he only a video game character because he started that way?

My brother's favorite character in Dragonball is Vegito, and it's entirely because of Budokai 3 where he selected him and promptly destroyed every other character in the game. This was before he ever even watched the Buu saga, and he's never once read the manga. If his love for his favorite character came from a video game, why can't we say he's a video game character too?

 

[Pakky]

I mean, if you guys really want Goku in Smash... You sorta got your wish granted:
View attachment 164554
(Granted not your ideal wish but you got it nonetheless)

I got you fam

 

[TMNTSSB4]

How? Tom Nook was already shown in Villager’s final smash. Why would anyone have thought he could have been playable?

the heat of the moment and/or not watching Villager gameplay

I agree......but "deserve" is still technically a subjective thing, regardless of you or my own thoughts or feelings. Even if every human on the planet had the same opinion on something it would not ever become a fact. That's just how subjectivity works.

True...but many things aren’t truth in this world and many things are subjective and end up being made into a fact by some sort of force (like how it’s a fact that pedos are bad...not the best example to use but yeah)

Luxurious sure...but nobody can claim/own the name like Mario Jumpman Mario has (not even Pac-Man gets to have that name), and No Mario = No Current Nintendo or Gaming in general cause it would’ve been dead so yeah Mario definitely gets an exception when it comes to deserving things...but he was still a dumb*** for leaving Pauline

Years too late...and after Nintendo made sure Mega Man wasn’t Mega Dead

I quote myself just cause

I'm glad that the box theory has begun to die down but......

Every time someone pleasures the idea of Goku being in Smash, part of me dies inside.

Stop dying

 

[StormC]

If his love for his favorite character came from a video game, why can't we say he's a video game character too?

Because wanting something to be true really badly doesn't make it true.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I get what you're saying. And even though I personally don't want Goku in, I agree with you.

Lara Croft is a "video game character". But there are still tons of people aware of her from being played by Angelina Jolie in two blockbuster movies. To them, she's a movie character. She's also got four huge omnibuses of comic books that span the last twenty years. Is she a comic book character now?

Sonic has had multiple American Saturday morning cartoons, an anime, another western CGI show and one of the longest running comic book series ever. Is he only a video game character because he started that way?

My brother's favorite character in Dragonball is Vegito, and it's entirely because of Budokai 3 where he selected him and promptly destroyed every other character in the game. This was before he ever even watched the Buu saga, and he's never once read the manga. If his love for his favorite character came from a video game, why can't we say he's a video game character too?

Not really related...but Gohan >>>>

 

[ErenJager]

https://web.archive.org/web/20070328190054/http://www.smashbros.com/jp/toukou/bn/no3.html



"The joining of manga characters is impossible. (Definitively)."

Didnt he also say Ridley was too big?

 

[praline]

I'm glad that the box theory has begun to die down but......

Every time someone pleasures the idea of Goku being in Smash, part of me dies inside.

I don’t think pleasures is the right word for that sentence.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Didnt he also say Ridley was too big?

He and many others

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm 90% sure this is the final roster -
View attachment 164556

Holy cow

That’s mine except for isaac

 

[staindgrey]

Because wanting something to be true really badly doesn't make it true.

Normally I'd agree with this statement, but here I don't think it applies. This is an opinion, so "true" and "false" can't really apply.

If Goku had never been featured in any prominent videogame, saying definitively that he is not also a videogame character could be absolutely proven true. But when he's starred in this many games, saying that objectively just isn't possible. We're arguing opinions at this point.

Again-- I feel I have to keep saying this-- I do not want Goku in Smash Bros. At all. But that's my personal opinion. Touting it as fact to diminish someone else's opinion isn't really okay.

 

[Deleted member]

No new leaks yet? Kinda want something to read. Probably got another month to go until the next Smash reveal and Isabelle, while unique, is not much of a holdover.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Normally I'd agree with this statement, but here I don't think it applies. This is an opinion, so "true" and "false" can't really apply.

If Goku had never been featured in any prominent videogame, saying definitively that he is not also a videogame character could be absolutely proven true. But when he's starred in this many games, saying that objectively just isn't possible. We're arguing opinions at this point.

Again-- I feel I have to keep saying this-- I do not want Goku in Smash Bros. At all. But that's my personal opinion. Touting it as fact to diminish someone else's opinion isn't really okay.

The problem lies in what your definition of a video game character actually is.

If what's really making the point a stalemate here is semantics, then you can just as easily say "Characters who did not originate from a video game should not be in smash" if it makes this honestly pointless argument end easier.

Because despite his frequent appearances, Goku is not iconic due to his video games.

 

[Ultinarok]

I have chosen not to respond to this comment but I have acknowledged it
Best of luck in your Goku ventures

Case in point lol. I'm not even a Goku supporter but I mention that he's not as ridiculous as people make him sound and this is the kind of answer I get. God forbid someone tries to get the stick out of everyone's asses about this character, am I right?

Did Goku kill your dog or something? Lol.

I feel so bad for the people who support these kinds of characters who get **** on in this thread all the time for it. I never have and never will understand why everyone wants Geno for example, as 11 years of speculation has not convinced me that the character is terribly significant. Yet his detractors get the same flak as Goku supporters. Is this what we are? An echo chamber that doubles as a hivemind? Its called speculation guys.

People want Geno. I let them. More power to them. I don't get it, but you do you.

People want Goku. You should let them too. If you can't accept them, buy some posters of your most wanted newcomer and gawk at them all day to feel better.

Now I will end this Goku talk. I just had to say this. Let people want who they want. Dissenting opinions are good for speculation, and should be embraced. Bring on the Gokus, Shreks, CD-i Marios. In the end, not a damn thing we say here has an impact on the game anyway.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I just find it rather unfair how many people treat Goku supporters. Even if he has no chance, there's plenty of reason to believe that that can change. I just find the hostility unnecessary. This is the same community that literally brought a character back from the dead. I don't see a reason why they couldn't push Goku over the edge one day, if they really wanted to.

No it cannot change. Just like Shrek will never change. Or Spongebob. I'd wager more people on this earth know who Mickey Mouse is and have no clue who Goku is... Still Mickey Mouse will never be in...just like Goku. It isn't happening in any realistic timeline.

We may yet live to see Waluigi get in, but Sakurai hopefully looks at Goku as tainting what the series is..a tribute to Nintendo's GAME history. Manga holds nothing to Smash. People in big denial that Goku just won't happen.

 

[ErenJager]

No new leaks yet? Kinda want something to read. Probably got another month to go until the next Smash reveal and Isabelle, while unique, is not much of a holdover.

Shonen Jump magazine leaks/ scans suggest Goku could be in smash.

Not actually

 

[Pakky]

We'll live to see Waluigi in before Goku.

That could be set up this console generation, really. All that needs to happen is a little push.

Waluigi gets a game, boom, he becomes fair game for Smash.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Case in point lol. I'm not even a Goku supporter but I mention that he's not as ridiculous as people make him sound and this is the kind of answer I get. God forbid someone tries to get the stick out of everyone's ***** about this character, am I right?

Did Goku kill your dog or something? Lol.

I feel so bad for the people who support these kinds of characters who get **** on in this thread all the time for it. I never have and never will understand why everyone wants Geno for example, as 11 years of speculation has not convinced me that the character is terribly significant. Yet his detractors get the same flak as Goku supporters. Is this what we are? An echo chamber that doubles as a hivemind? Its called speculation guys.

People want Geno. I let them. More power to them. I don't get it, but you do you.

People want Goku. You should let them too. If you can't accept them, buy some posters of your most wanted newcomer and gawk at them all day to feel better.

Now I will end this Goku talk. I just had to say this. Let people want who they want. Dissenting opinions are good for speculation, and should be embraced. Bring on the Gokus, Shreks, CD-i Marios. In the end, not a damn thing we say here has an impact on the game anyway.

> Ridley
> K. Rool

Neither of these character would have happened if not for rampant and dedicated pressure from fans on Sakurai. It proves the fans rallying behind a few darlings does have an effect. And the amount of people trying to meme Goku, Shrek, or whatever other obviously ridiculous pick into smash is as high if not higher than the amount of people promoting their super nieche first party nintendo reps they've wanted for a near decade.

Speculation is fine, but speculating the likes of Goku is like speculating Optimus Prime getting into the next Avengers because Marvel made the Transformers comics. Its just a moot point.

 

[StormC]

Not sure how someone gets the impression that Geno doesn't get criticized a lot here because he definitely does.

Lots of people here have misgivings about Geno.

 

[AugustusB]

Dang, from boxes to Goku.

Anyway, thank y'all for liking my Guzma/Golisopod moveset from earlier! I had to change my avatar to reflect how much I enjoyed putting that together.

Has there been any new word on Vergeben since Isabelle was announced?

 

[Deleted member]

Just because some character starred in a bunch of games doesn't mean they're a videogame character, much less that their franchise is a gaming one.
Goku was conceptualized in Dragon Ball, a manga. No amount of games will change that fact. DB games aren't original creations for gaming, they're licensed games.
People like to mention Lucario debutted in Mystery of Mew but it's from Pokemon, a franchise that no matter how popular the anime is, was still created as a game and so was Lucario in design.
ROB is not in a game either but it was still created with gaming in mind and its use was for gaming. Goku was clearly not designed with that intention. It's less that characters that debutted outside of games won't make it in but rather that non-gaming FRANCHISES won't be represented.

 

[Luigi The President]

Case in point lol. I'm not even a Goku supporter but I mention that he's not as ridiculous as people make him sound and this is the kind of answer I get. God forbid someone tries to get the stick out of everyone's ***** about this character, am I right?

Did Goku kill your dog or something? Lol.

I feel so bad for the people who support these kinds of characters who get **** on in this thread all the time for it. I never have and never will understand why everyone wants Geno for example, as 11 years of speculation has not convinced me that the character is terribly significant. Yet his detractors get the same flak as Goku supporters. Is this what we are? An echo chamber that doubles as a hivemind? Its called speculation guys.

People want Geno. I let them. More power to them. I don't get it, but you do you.

People want Goku. You should let them too. If you can't accept them, buy some posters of your most wanted newcomer and gawk at them all day to feel better.

Now I will end this Goku talk. I just had to say this. Let people want who they want. Dissenting opinions are good for speculation, and should be embraced. Bring on the Gokus, Shreks, CD-i Marios. In the end, not a damn thing we say here has an impact on the game anyway.

I bought DBZF in the first week. DBZ is a childhood favorite. I genuinely love that anime. I was not trying to be passive-aggressive with my post. So I apologize if I came off that way, but seriously, I just knew that whatever I said would spark some sort of mini flame war with my comment and felt the best course of action would simply be to wish you luck, which I genuinely meant.

Believe me. I get how Goku supporters feel, albeit just a bit. I'm a Paper Mario supporter. I hear "he's another Mario" all the time. I'd honestly love Goku in Smash. That's why I chose not to voice my own opinion on the issue.

Hope it wasn't upsetting, because I really, really did not mean it that way. I'm not exactly the best with picking up on when I can come across as passive-aggressive, and I seriously apologize.

 

[praline]

If we have to have a new pokemon rep Buzzwole would be much cooler than any other gen 7 option

 

[RandomAce]

Based on what is happening in the past days I can definitely say...

Isabelle didn’t do anything for the speculation scene at all, lmao. Ridley and Daisy made waves, Simon and King K. Rool made waves, but we only talked about Isabelle for a couple of hours before switching the topic.

EDIT: Also, the sudden drop in people is letting me to believe that a lot of people got tired of discussing the whole box theory fiasco.

 

[Chrono.]

This place has been a rollercoaster the last couple of days.

From Isabelle hype/salt to the boxart fiasco to another Goku debate when we just had one last week.

 

[ErenJager]

The problem lies in what your definition of a video game character actually is.

If what's really making the point a stalemate here is semantics, then you can just as easily say "Characters who did not originate from a video game should not be in smash" if it makes this honestly pointless argument end easier.

Because despite his frequent appearances, Goku is not iconic due to his video games.

There was like a decade were there was no new anime or manga... But like yearly dragon ball games.

 

[Deleted member]

Hold on, I think I found the best way to summarize it: Goku in Smash makes as much sense as Mario in Jump Force.

 

[Noipoi]

Based on what is happening in the past days I can definitely say...

Isabelle didn’t do anything for the speculation scene at all, lmao. Ridley and Daisy made waves, Simon and King K. Rool made waves, but we only talked about Isabelle for a couple of hours before switching the topic.

Also, the sudden drop in people is letting me to believe that a lot of people got tired of discussing the whole box theory fiasco and the same two characters over and over again.

It's the box.
IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF THE BOX.

or maybe it's because we're spoiled .

 

[Pakky]

I wonder if Pokemon will get two more reps.

Who's as big as Inceniroar? Actually I mean, not to be inflammatory but ya'know.

I guess Zeraora or someone from 8th?

 

[AugustusB]

If we have to have a new pokemon rep Buzzwole would be much cooler than any other gen 7 option

That would be pretty neat...but sadly it seems Incineroar will be in. But who knows?