Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenRob]

No I don't. I think there are two characters left and Ken is one of them, but I DO NOT think the other is Incineroar.

Glad someone said it

 

[ThreeT]

Let’s change the poll for this:

Do you think that Ken and Incineroar are the only two characters left, and how does that make you feel?

• There are only two characters left, and that is sad since it feels incomplete.
• There are only two characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There may be more characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There will be more characters, and there had better be since this is incomplete.

It seems that people are getting a bit hostile against people who don’t go with their side...

Not a bad roster in the slightest. However Incineroar being the final newcomer is weird to me. I still think we will have one more, but if this is it I'll take it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I never said idiot.

I just think it's a wrong theory and talking about is as heavily feels stupid because there's a whole heap of things that have to be altered in contrast to another right so far theory/leak as well taking into consideration of a whole lot of box art we can't even see, etc, etc.

There are far too many variables that can change about this that does not make it sound and just seems asinine to me to discuss it as if it's law.

But if I'm wrong. I'm wrong and I will change my name to Princess Pinkybottom.

 

[Spinosaurus]

On Verge, I think he's completely right. I just think the Square Enix character is DLC in the end. (Could be the Pokemon, too, of course. But the uncertainty around the SE char makes me think it's not as far along for the base roster.)

We saw something similar happen with the ESRB leak and Mewtwo, yeah?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I would not be bummed if we got those two firey fighters but I think this is us looking at an incomplete picture and jumping to conclusions. Also real talk, the way it cuts Zelda from Sheik half way through a row is super weird.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, What’s with all the Isabelle hate? Just curious

 

[Nonno Umby]

Let’s change the poll for this:

Do you think that Ken and Incineroar are the only two characters left, and how does that make you feel?

• There are only two characters left, and that is sad since it feels incomplete.
• There are only two characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There may be more characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There will be more characters, and there had better be since this is incomplete.

It seems that people are getting a bit hostile against people who don’t go with their side...

"There may be more characters, but the roster is fine as is." for me.
I've already got msot of my most wanted. All the veterans, Snake, Simon Belmont and King K. Rool. For me this is an extremely satisfying roster, 9.5 out of 10.

But if somehow Elma is in that would really be perfection. And I'm going to hope for her until the end.

 

[NintenRob]

Regarding box theory of the opinion.

Could be true, could be nothing. I think both are entirely plausible. I don't agree with who the unique character is if it's real though and I don't think we should put much trust into Verg who still has his shaky track record from before Smash, and has claims incompatible with the box theory. And still no sign of Minecraft anywhere.

He even admitted his own hesitance regarding Pokemon.

 

[Chrono.]

If the original 8 were to be on the back, that'd mean like 8 slots would be unaccounted for.

No way that many characters are left.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Right now I feel most people that don't think the box makes sense just don't want 1 more echo and 1 more unique to be the end for base. I'm in that camp too, but at the same time no ones provided real evidence against it.

I think the best thing against it is I can't imagine us getting Ken and Incineroar as our final reveals in a Smash direct. 1. I feel like we will get another reveal before that direct and 2. They don't seem like final hype characters (also not convinced it's Incineroar).

But both of those are just "feelings" and not really enough to dispute the box. Kind of leaning towards the box right now. all hail the box

(Also the fact that the roster perfectly lines up with the box is insane. Obviously Sakurai didn't plan that, but who ever designed this box must have been hype. I know I would have been *symmetry*.)

 

[Zinith]

I just want my Boshi, box or no box!!!

Spoiler

I'm kinda drunk, so sorry for the uncharacteristically low quality post...

 

[Spinosaurus]

So, What’s with all the Isabelle hate? Just curious

She doesn't exactly appeal to the most, say, "core" audience. Which is to say the kind of people who'd post on an enthusiast forum like us.

But I've seen nothing but hype for her everywhere else, she's huge. Just look at the replies to the announcement on Animal Crossing's twitter, it's nothing but an overwhelming amount of excitement.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I never said idiot.

I just think it's a wrong theory and talking about is as heavily feels stupid because there's a whole heap of things that have to be altered in contrast to another right so far theory/leak as well taking into consideration of a whole lot of box art we can't even see, etc, etc.

There are far too many variables that can change about this that does not make it sound and just seems asinine to me to discuss it as if it's law.

But if I'm wrong. I'm wrong and I will change my name to Princess Pinkybottom.

You didn’t call me an idiot, but another person said it yesterday. Either way, the insults aren’t needed for this. It’s really not worth that.

If you aren’t convinced, all I can suggest is to look through my post history to yesterday when I posted the mock-up of what the other side of the box looks like. vaanrose suggested WHY it is broken into groups of 9, and the twitter thread expands on that.

I would link it here, but i’m on mobile and don’t have access to the pictures/links I posted.

All I ask is for people to consider it as a possibility, because it could very well be this time. A lot of things line up.

 

[lightdrago]

Regarding box theory of the opinion.

Could be true, could be nothing. I think both are entirely plausible. I don't agree with who the unique character is if it's real though and I don't think we should put much trust into Verg who still has his shaky track record from before Smash, and has claims incompatible with the box theory. And still no sign of Minecraft anywhere.

He even admitted his own hesitance regarding Pokemon.

Verge admitted he wasn’t sure if the Pokemon was Incineroar. He’s sure that there is a Gen VII Pokemon.

 

[Bladeviper]

So about that box, I think there may be 3characters left and not 2. This is due to the fact that while we cant see the other side we can assume that just like the miis, pokemon trainer only takes up on spot on the other side.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

She doesn't exactly appeal to the most, say, "core" audience. Which is to say the kind of people who'd post on an enthusiast forum like us.

But I've seen nothing but hype for her everywhere else, she's huge. Just look at the replies to the announcement on Animal Crossing's twitter, it's nothing but an overwhelming amount of excitement.

Ah I see. Honestly, ACNL was my first Nintendo game, so I’m very happy Isabelle is in smash!

 

[Deleted member]

If Ken and Incineroar are the last two characters revealed, I'd say it'd be pretty disappointing. It feels weird that they would reveal a new Pokemon rep at the tail end of the promotion period where that has never happened before in Smash. Though, to be clear, this roster is pretty fantastic, it's just in the very short term of this announcement, is why I say it's pretty disappointing.

Not to mention, Isabelle we all thought would be an echo fighter - turns out she casted Loogy Spoogy Make Me A Goopy and is a Luigi/Wolf/Lucas-esque fighter. We all thought Skull Kid were definites, now we say they're not in?

I dunno, at the end of the day, all I can really say about this Box Thing is just remember the days of Smash 4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spoiler: Ooops, dropped this

 

[drag0nscythe]

You didn’t call me an idiot, but another person said it yesterday. Either way, the insults aren’t needed for this. It’s really not worth that.

If you aren’t convinced, all I can suggest is to look through my post history to yesterday when I posted the mock-up of what the other side of the box looks like. vaanrose suggested WHY it is broken into groups of 9, and the twitter thread expands on that.

I would link it here, but i’m on mobile and don’t have access to the pictures/links I posted.

All I ask is for people to consider it as a possibility, because it could very well be this time. A lot of things line up.

I want to add that I also posted a CSS that can match the final 72 number perfectly.
While I think smashdown does not need it, 72 is divisible by 2,3,4 nicely.
The box.
Music theory also seems to support this concept.

IT all is to much of a coincidence.

If Ken and Incineroar are the last two characters revealed, I'd say it'd be pretty disappointing. It feels weird that they would reveal a new Pokemon rep at the tail end of the promotion period where that has never happened before in Smash.
Not to mention, Isabelle we all thought would be an echo fighter - turns out she casted Loogy Spoogy Make Me A Goopy and is a Luigi/Wolf/Lucas-esque fighter. We all thought Skull Kid were definites, now we say they're not in?

I dunno, at the end of the day, all I can really say about this Box Thing is just remember the days of Smash 4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

View attachment 164422

Spoiler: Ooops, dropped this

View attachment 164423

Part 1: Pokemon Lets Go evee and Pikachu are coming out around the same time ans inciniroar announcement.
Part 2: Corrin was added after everything. He was an extra slot that was added in compared to the original list of characters planned. Given that knowledge, if you look at everything else after him, it is all off by 1. Before him, it was perfect squares and css. So I would not use that as an excuse

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If the original 8 were to be on the back, that'd mean like 8 slots would be unaccounted for.

No way that many characters are left.

Easy, reveal a bunch of echoes in the next/last direct.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Anyway, to get away from the box for the moment, i’m SUPER hyped for what we could get for DLC if this really is all we have to look forward to.

If Mario tennis Aces is getting support until June, imagine what Smash could get.

I think Spring Man and Rex will be there, and probably some 3rd parties. But it could be really, really awesome.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

Isaac has had more consistent support than Geno, but Geno's support at its peak was significantly bigger than Isaac's has ever been. Isaac has pretty much been a tier 2 character in terms of support for his entire history in Smash speculation, where as Geno was at one point at the top, then plummeted to obscurity, and has now got back up again, although not quite to the same heights. It depends a bit on what you put emphasis on, I remember Geno's support better because he used to be that big, but I can see why others would remember Isaac's support more as he's been a subject of discussion much more consistently.

Neither get close to Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man or Mewtwo, if we count him, so I do agree that there never was a trinity so to say, especially as K. Rool and Geno's support were never at their peaks simultaneously. Those four characters stood out among the rest post-Brawl, and nobody else even got close to joining that party.

Ridley and Isaac have their popularity overestimated heavily. Remember "Captain America"?

Also I will say that no smash characters were more requested than Sonic and Mega Man. anyone else is a distant second to those two and ridley being the biggest one is a fat ass myth.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I feel like people are thinking I’m out to be “the guy who was right about the box theory”. I’m not. I’m presenting it because I can see it happening, and that mass denial COULD (see COULD) cause massive butthurt/salt.

All I am saying is to consider it. Some aren’t doing that at all and are saying that i’m “An idiot” or “stupid”. Thanks. That’s a great example of discourse.

It’s even better because the people saying those things haven’t provided evidence (in my humble opinion) that any of it is wrong aside from, “I think there’s more”.

I don’t have an issue with most people being skeptical. I DO have a problem with completely dismissing it and being an *** about it.

I’ve been mostly civil, and have apologized already if I originally came off a certain way.

Not to be a prick. But I just might have to come through if this ends up true with a de facto “I told you so”. I like the character speculation community because it’s fun to talk about this stuff. But I also don’t want dreams squashed, or crashing and burning because of great expectations that aren’t met.

I’m just trying to help, POTENTIALLY, soften the blow. Instead i’m getting effectively insulted.

I would gladly be wrong, and we get more. Really, I would. But based on what I know, i’m convinced.

This was what I was trying to say in mine. I feel anyone who isn't looking at it just doesn't like that it's a hype killer (I mean unless you're a really big Ken fan lol).

For now I'm going to with it because, just like me being against the chair theory, if I'm wrong cool! It means I get what I'd rather have anyway.

 

[T-Hell]

I'm not buying the box theory. I just highly doubt there are just 2 characters left with just one echo.

 

[NintenRob]

Verge admitted he wasn’t sure if the Pokemon was Incineroar. He’s sure that there is a Gen VII Pokemon.

He was hesitant to give out information at all at first. He was saying it came from another source before revealing information.

 

[Frostwraith]

I've always thought that a Gen VII Pokémon was basically a lock for this game, so I'll be more surprised (although not necessarily disappointed) if there isn't any.

I just would like Decidueye more than Incineroar. Mimikyu is confirmed as a Poké Ball summon, so I'm holding out some hope for Decidueye now.

Incineroar is still a solid pick, though.

What I'll find odd is the potential lack of a Pokémon Sun/Moon stage.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The chairs died and now THE BOX has taken their place.

 

[HyruleHero]

Let’s change the poll for this:

Do you think that Ken and Incineroar are the only two characters left, and how does that make you feel?

• There are only two characters left, and that is sad since it feels incomplete.
• There are only two characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There may be more characters, but the roster is fine as is.
• There will be more characters, and there had better be since this is incomplete.

It seems that people are getting a bit hostile against people who don’t go with their side...

I'm all for 'there may be more characters, but the roster is fine as is', although my two characters I've been rooting for since Brawl (Sora and Banjo-Kazooie) probably won't show up I'm very happy with the roster. Link looks like he plays really well now and Simon looks like a great character (inkling looks fun as well). I'm never disappointed in a smash bros line up (although if cloud wasn't added to smash4 it probably would have been the most disappointing).

 

[Spinosaurus]

Ah I see. Honestly, ACNL was my first Nintendo game, so I’m very happy Isabelle is in smash!

Animal Crossing is near and dear to me, and Isabelle really made happy. Only newcomer so far to get me excited!

Def holding out for Incineroar too though. Got my dog, just need the cat too~

 

[Bladeviper]

so tbh i think we might not get any more echoes. I would just seem iffy to me that they save them for the final announcement if we indeed are only getting 2 or 3 more

 

[NintenRob]

Still think Skull Kid has a solid chance, I always said he never needed Leaks or Chairs to help support his inclusion, I'm gonna stick by my own beliefs for now

 

[lightdrago]

He was hesitant to give out information at all at first. He was saying it came from another source before revealing information.

No, he said Incineroar only came from one of his main sources. His other two could not confirm if that was true. We only found out about Incineroar because of loz. Furthermore, Verg deconfirmed Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Mimikyu without hesitation, so he’s sure of a Gen VII Rep.

He said he’s holding off on naming the Square Enix Rep, as none of his sources have confirmed it.

 

[The DanMan051]

Not a bad roster in the slightest. However Incineroar being the final newcomer is weird to me. I still think we will have one more, but if this is it I'll take it.

Olimar was the final reveal for Brawl and Shulk for Smash 4; as a fan of both their series, I'll be among the first to admit that they're not exactly major hype raisers. Same deal with Incineroar; the core doesn't care for newer Pokemon + Pokemon in general already being a popular franchise with the most playable characters in the game, so another one doesn't have as much hype/impact to it.

 

[Chrono.]

so tbh i think we might not get any more echoes. I would just seem iffy to me that they save them for the final announcement if we indeed are only getting 2 or 3 more

Echo or not Ken is a pretty big deal on his own.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always thought that a Gen VII Pokémon was basically a lock for this game, so I'll be more surprised (although not necessarily disappointed) if there isn't any.

I just would like Decidueye more than Incineroar. Mimikyu is confirmed as a Poké Ball summon, so I'm holding out some hope for Decidueye now.

Incineroar is still a solid pick, though.

What I'll find odd is the potential lack of a Pokémon Sun/Moon stage.

Okay, THIS right here, if anything, is my ONLY gripe with Smash Ultimate. Don't get me wrong, I am really, really appreciative of the 103 stages, and I can understand why Simon and Richter and Inkling have their own stages, new IP, of course. Isabelle, Ridley, and any other echo fighters makes sense to not have a totally brand new stage. But... for King K. Rool and a Gen VII Pokemon to NOT have a stage? It feels a bit weird.

You'd think they'd pay more homage to Donkey Kong Country to fill in the gap for Jungle Hijinx and maybe the Aether Foundation for the Gen VII Pokemon, but to not have them at all? Feels... Weird. Not bad at all! Just... weird.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Another thing about the Pokemon is that Verge was sure enough to strike off 3 of them. Almost every rumor has Incineroar, too. (Probably piggybacking off Verge, though.)

 

[drag0nscythe]

She doesn't exactly appeal to the most, say, "core" audience. Which is to say the kind of people who'd post on an enthusiast forum like us.

But I've seen nothing but hype for her everywhere else, she's huge. Just look at the replies to the announcement on Animal Crossing's twitter, it's nothing but an overwhelming amount of excitement.

Nintendo should have the hardcore group down pat with Ridley and K Rool. They need the non smash fans to get in. Animal Crossing, Pokemon and Street Fighter are very noticeable names for non-enthusiasts to see.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Be honest with me, we all know Incineroar is expected to be the next character but, do YOU want him in over any other choices like Skull Kid or Geno?

 

[Bladeviper]

Echo or not Ken is a pretty big deal on his own.

i think if ken is in they go the semi clone route

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Echo or not Ken is a pretty big deal on his own.

He is, but he's also not an echo or fighter anyone really particularly ASKED for either. Outside of Richter. Every echo has been ''We get a lot of requests." type of fighter.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Be honest with me, we all know Incineroar is expected to be the next character but, do YOU want him in over any other choices like Skull Kid or Geno?

I like cats. I like tiger mask. I like wrestling. I like Pokemon.

Give me Incineroar over anyone else. <3