Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

The entire box theory is being taken way out of proportion.

1. Why would Sakurai frontload 5 reveals into an August direct, 1 in September so far, and then presumably 0 in October and 2 in a November direct?
This would create a massive hype vacuum shortly before release and draw discussion away from the game. This strategy does not appear to make sense at first glance nor is there any precedent to support it. This does not match with the reveal strategy employed in 4 which has been otherwise emulated up to this point. Why make such a substantial and counter-intuitive change to a system that worked after mimicking it this long to great success?

2. This contradicts what Vergeben, in all his previous accuracy, has already said.
Between Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square Rep Vergeben has already said three more characters are coming. I've heard lots of postulation that he was misinformed or that the character he heard about was preplanned DLC. That's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's absurd to just accept this theory at face value and say "Vergeben must be wrong" as opposed to humoring the possibility that it's the inverse that's true.

3. Who knows what the box designers actually know?
We know that reveals are super tight-lipped for this game. Unless it was already absolutely necessary the box designers were likely not given the full character list. They may very well have been handed the previously released or soon-to-be-released renders and told to design the box in a manner that would be scalable for new characters. Hell even if they did have the full character listings if there were enough to merit another line what the hell were they going to do, leave a giant blank space at the bottom of the box for this promo?

I'm not denying it's possible they're onto something but all of the people who are dead certain we're only getting Ken and one other newcomer now are taking way too much certainty in something that doesn't quite add up and there are a lot of explanations for.

This guy knows what he's talking about. Thank you. I agree on everything. The box thing is possible as you said and people are allowed to believe it but don't treat it like its a fact until the end of the run. It's fine to speculate but don't act like its true when it hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Skull Kid
Banjo

 

[Corbin]

Here's the thing with all this...

I know we've had disappointments in the past, namely with Smash 4's base roster. The ESRB leaks put a lot of us into denial even after they were confirmed true with Shulk's reveal. I understand wanting to keep this thought as a vague possibility just to avoid potential disappointment, that's what I'm doing... But can we just think about this logically..?

First of all, a graphics/PR team isn't going to know insider info on the roster neither the character choices nor how many are left. They likely just arranged the portraits of all currently (at the time) known characters, and made a mock up image. It didn't have to look perfect, because its probably not the final design, as they're going to include more characters on it as reveals continue. This was likely just the best way to arrange a promo image which is subject to change. If something like the banner which at first seemed solid and unchangeable is subject to having characters moved all around to accommodate for future reveals, why would portrait images on the side of a box be any different..? Like realistically what were they (the graphic team) supposed to do given their current circumstances? I want to get this point across...

There is no possible orientation that they could have chose that wouldn't have everyone reading too deeply into it.


They make the portaits smaller? That leaves more room open for empty spaces which leads people even more so to think that we know the amount of newcomers, so that would obviously be a no-go. This was the closest they could get to having a full layout of all characters on the box with the info they knew at the time.

I understand that it's speculation and I completely support it, but I feel like the fact that there's so many people giving up all hope like this is the final say is honestly kind of ridiculous. They would have nothing to gain showing these remaining spots off if they were in fact, the "final spots", and the fact that anyone thinks a graphics team designing boxart for a bundle like this would know this info is mind-boggling.

Also I'm completely along the line of thinking that Vergeben is pretty much completely legit, so this doesn't have anything to do with his claims, but it doesn't make sense to me why people are cherry-picking what info of his to match with this theory. Like why is the SE rep being tossed out of the conceptual base roster all of a sudden..? What makes Ken and Alolamon more fitting..?

Look, I've always been a very cautious speculator when it comes to this sort of thing, and I naturally tend to stick to the more disappointing option because it saves me from the disappointment if it ends up being real. But this is nothing to get worked up over.

Excellent summation of your skepticism. It's most definitely a digital mock-up.

Additionally, this isn't the first time the marketing for this game has been misleading with the character count.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Yeesh sorry. Believe me I don't mean to be condescending and wasn't saying people were dumb and lame. Talk about jumping to conclusions. How about before saying something that isn't true, you think before posting bub.

Sorry to call you that but you honestly had it coming.

...

So you don't believe in chairs and pillows but you'll believe in box bundles...

Ok...

My god people are actually believing the box theory...I have no words to describe...

Eh whatever no point arguing over this...

Except lol you are being a condescending ****

 

[ZephyrZ]

First of all, a graphics/PR team isn't going to know insider info on the roster neither the character choices nor how many are left. They likely just arranged the portraits of all currently (at the time) known characters, and made a mock up image. It didn't have to look perfect, because its probably not the final design, as they're going to include more characters on it as reveals continue. This was likely just the best way to arrange a promo image which is subject to change. If something like the banner which at first seemed solid and unchangeable is subject to having characters moved all around to accommodate for future reveals, why would portrait images on the side of a box be any different..? Like realistically what were they (the graphic team) supposed to do given their current circumstances? I want to get this point across...

This has already been brought up, and we actually do have reason to believe that the graphic designers who made this have insider knowledge. The box actually does seem to follow a very particular pattern with only one tiny hole in it which could only be explained if there is an echo fighter on the other side of the box. If they don't know about characters we don't, why would they arrange those characters in such a specific pattern only to break it for apparently no reason?

In fact, I believe the final box design has already been decided and this mock up is supposed to be a spoiler-free representation of it. It wouldn't make sense for them to have a design this close to ready to be shown if the graphic design team didn't already have a final design prepared. Box art is actually extremely important, and I doubt they're just going to quickly slap it together in the final weeks before release.

 

[Chrono.]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Tails and Ken.

 

[Zinith]

...




Except lol you are being a condescending ****

Two wrongs don't make a right

 

[Misery Brick]

I mean, I agree, but I'm assuming your post is in agreement with parts of mine? Not to be rude or anything, because most of what you've said was just regurgitated points from my post, and isn't even relevant to the point of initial post anyway.

Oh wow, my bad!
I've just been sifting through these arguments all night, and I guess I misinterpreted your points.
Like I said in earlier posts, I think people were just cherry picking parts of Verge's claims for the sake of the box theory.
So my bad, I assumed the same of your post, so I was completely turned around on what you were talking about.

 

[Deleted member]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Wonder-Red and Crono

 

[Michael the Spikester]

...




Except lol you are being a condescending ****

But was I actually saying people were stupid and dumb as you were saying? No I wasn't. You were jumping to conclusions. Look I don't want to continue dragging this on so lets just leave it as that and I do apologize if I did seem that way from my posts. Sometimes I can get pretty heated in debates. Something I gotta learn to control. Nobody is perfect you know which I won't deny that I am.

 

[Nethermoosen]

It's not like the Box theory doesn't have merit, it's by far the best one we've had this time, I'm just not fully sold on it. It just seems too odd to me.

Nothing wrong with that view point at all. As long as no one simply denies the facts that we do have, no belief is out of the question. Whether you believe the Box Theory, discount it or somewhere in between, you still aren’t objectively wrong. Because we still don’t have an absolute conclusion yet.

 

[eltacoenojado]

I feel like I’m the only one on this forum who doesn’t care about Geno.

You're definitely not alone.

 

[Shroob]

The one thing to note about the box, as MANY others have said:


Due to the way it's lined up, it all but confirms Ken.


Unless you think someone like Medusa or Miss Pac Man are going to be in, the way that the characters are lined up in groups of 9 more or less confirm Ken as happening, there's really no debating the fact that the way that the groups are cut are made with an Echo we're currently unaware of on the other side of it existing.

 

[perfectchaos83]

This has already been brought up, and we actually do have reason to believe that the graphic designers who made this have insider knowledge. The box actually does seem to follow a very particular pattern with only one tiny hole in it which could only be explained if there is an echo fighter on the other side of the box. If they don't know about characters we don't, why would they arrange those characters in such a specific pattern only to break it for apparently no reason?

Forced Symmetry is another plausible reason. The last row on the unseen side has 8 to the right side's visible 7

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The entire box theory is being taken way out of proportion.

1. Why would Sakurai frontload 5 reveals into an August direct, 1 in September so far, and then presumably 0 in October and 2 in a November direct?
This would create a massive hype vacuum shortly before release and draw discussion away from the game. This strategy does not appear to make sense at first glance nor is there any precedent to support it. This does not match with the reveal strategy employed in 4 which has been otherwise emulated up to this point. Why make such a substantial and counter-intuitive change to a system that worked after mimicking it this long to great success?

2. This contradicts what Vergeben, in all his previous accuracy, has already said.
Between Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square Rep Vergeben has already said three more characters are coming. I've heard lots of postulation that he was misinformed or that the character he heard about was preplanned DLC. That's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's absurd to just accept this theory at face value and say "Vergeben must be wrong" as opposed to humoring the possibility that it's the inverse that's true.

3. Who knows what the box designers actually know?
We know that reveals are super tight-lipped for this game. Unless it was already absolutely necessary the box designers were likely not given the full character list. They may very well have been handed the previously released or soon-to-be-released renders and told to design the box in a manner that would be scalable for new characters. Hell even if they did have the full character listings if there were enough to merit another line what the hell were they going to do, leave a giant blank space at the bottom of the box for this promo?

I'm not denying it's possible they're onto something but all of the people who are dead certain we're only getting Ken and one other newcomer now are taking way too much certainty in something that doesn't quite add up and there are a lot of explanations for.

There is still that new mode that exists. Sakurai probably only wants to reveal 1 newcomer and 1 echo in the next Smash Direct, so he has more time to focus on this new mode that he's hyped us up for back in August. There is more to this game then it's characters you know.

Leakers a lot of the time aren't 100% accurate with their information. We've seen this time and time again. In fact Vergeben has almost never been 100% accurate with his leaks.

Why would they leave a blank space where two characters should be?

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

But was I actually saying people were stupid and dumb as you were saying? No I wasn't. You were jumping to conclusions. Look I don't want to continue dragging this on so lets just leave it as that and I do apologize if I did seem that way from my posts. Sometimes I can get pretty heated in debates. Something I gotta learn to control. Nobody is perfect you know which I won't deny that I am.

It's not 'jumping to conclusions' when it's literally the only way what you said can be interpreted. But I do understand how emotions can flare when debating beliefs, and I apologize if you felt I labeled you improperly. What you said didn't particularly bother me, but it came off as caustic and I wanted to address it.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Here's the thing with all this...

I know we've had disappointments in the past, namely with Smash 4's base roster. The ESRB leaks put a lot of us into denial even after they were confirmed true with Shulk's reveal. I understand wanting to keep this thought as a vague possibility just to avoid potential disappointment, that's what I'm doing... But can we just think about this logically..?

First of all, a graphics/PR team isn't going to know insider info on the roster neither the character choices nor how many are left. They likely just arranged the portraits of all currently (at the time) known characters, and made a mock up image. It didn't have to look perfect, because its probably not the final design, as they're going to include more characters on it as reveals continue. This was likely just the best way to arrange a promo image which is subject to change. If something like the banner which at first seemed solid and unchangeable is subject to having characters moved all around to accommodate for future reveals, why would portrait images on the side of a box be any different..? Like realistically what were they (the graphic team) supposed to do given their current circumstances? I want to get this point across...

There is no possible orientation that they could have chose that wouldn't have everyone reading too deeply into it.


They make the portaits smaller? That leaves more room open for empty spaces which leads people even more so to think that we know the amount of newcomers, so that would obviously be a no-go. This was the closest they could get to having a full layout of all characters on the box with the info they knew at the time.

I understand that it's speculation and I completely support it, but I feel like the fact that there's so many people giving up all hope like this is the final say is honestly kind of ridiculous. They would have nothing to gain showing these remaining spots off if they were in fact, the "final spots", and the fact that anyone thinks a graphics team designing boxart for a bundle like this would know this info is mind-boggling.

Also I'm completely along the line of thinking that Vergeben is pretty much completely legit, so this doesn't have anything to do with his claims, but it doesn't make sense to me why people are cherry-picking what info of his to match with this theory. Like why is the SE rep being tossed out of the conceptual base roster all of a sudden..? What makes Ken and Alolamon more fitting..?

Look, I've always been a very cautious speculator when it comes to this sort of thing, and I naturally tend to stick to the more disappointing option because it saves me from the disappointment if it ends up being real. But this is nothing to get worked up over.

Agreed. It may just be a mock up subject to change. With characters given, they had to use their current allowance of resources to create a display that invoked the image of the final product.
No matter what they did, reveals or not, those spaces were going to be there. They can’t evenly disperse it with the current known roster in any case.

 

[vaanrose]

I bet people who are hired to perform a specific job aren't told all the information they need to know to be able to perform the specific job they're hired to do.

 

[John Dylan Smith]

You're definitely not alone.

Same here! We don't need anymore Mario characters and I would rather like to Crono from Chrono Trigger Or Sora (If He wasn't owned by Disney) make into Smash Ultimate as playable fighters!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

While everybody is talking about the box and important smash stuff, no one cares about our boi Tom Nook...

Btw if you want to see more from this artist: http://pixelpulp.tumblr.com/ (there's some nice smash inspired stuff)

The poor guy will have to work his *** off again while others are chillin and smashing outside... At this rate, he'll suffer from burnout before the next Animal Crossing is released. If you don't believe me just rewatch this scene from the AC teaser:

 

[ZephyrZ]

Forced Symmetry is another plausible reason. The last row on the unseen side has 8 to the right side's visible 7

So you're suggesting that there is also an empty slot on the other side to try to keep things even? Hm, that's actually a pretty interesting point.

However, now that I've thought about it, I'm still pretty confident the graphic designers have an idea of what the final roster is like. Box art sells games, so I'm sure Nintendo knows it's not something to be taken lightly.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's not 'jumping to conclusions' when it's literally the only way what you said can be interpreted. But I do understand how emotions can flare when debating beliefs, and I apologize if you felt I labeled you improperly. What you said didn't particularly bother me, but it came off as caustic and I wanted to address it.

I understand and glad you do too and I do apologize as well because I do admit I was sounding pretty condescending honestly as I looked back at my posts. Let bygones be bygones then and simply move forward now and making sure I don't make this mistake again.

 

[Nethermoosen]

This has already been brought up, and we actually do have reason to believe that the graphic designers who made this have insider knowledge. The box actually does seem to follow a very particular pattern with only one tiny hole in it which could only be explained if there is an echo fighter on the other side of the box. If they don't know about characters we don't, why would they arrange those characters in such a specific pattern only to break it for apparently no reason?

In fact, I believe the final box design has already been decided and this mock up is supposed to be a spoiler-free representation of it. It wouldn't make sense for them to have a design this close to ready to be shown if the graphic design team didn't already have a final design prepared. Box art is actually extremely important, and I doubt they're just going to quickly slap it together in the final weeks before release.

I don’t get how that makes it more believeable, though. They may have the final number and decided on a design that will pan out beyond what’s already shown just so that it represents the final product as closely as possible and people know what they’re buying.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

While everybody is talking about the box and important smash stuff, no one cares about our boi Tom Nook...

Btw if you want to see more from this artist: http://pixelpulp.tumblr.com/ (there's some nice smash inspired stuff)

The poor guy will have to work his *** off again while others are chillin and smashing outside... At this rate, he'll suffer from burnout before the next Animal Crossing is released. If you don't believe me just rewatch this scene from the AC teaser:

Tom Nook can join the ranks with Waluigi and Ashley now.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So you're suggesting that there is also an empty slot on the other side to try to keep things even? Hm, that's actually a pretty interesting point.

However, now that I've thought about it, I'm still pretty confident the graphic designers have an idea of what the final roster is like. Box art sells games, so I'm sure Nintendo knows it's not something to be taken lightly.

And I'm on the side of not taking obviously incomplete mock up to be indicative of the final roster count when it's just supposed to look good for what we have now. I'm of the notion that everyone is shooting in the dark when we likely don't even know a quarter of the full picture.

 

[ZephyrZ]

To clarify, I'm on the side of "it's has stuff going for it but it's still possible to be disproven".

I don’t get how that makes it more believeable, though. They may have the final number and decided on a design that will pan out beyond what’s already shown just so that it represents the final product as closely as possible and people know what they’re buying.

It's a counter to the "the graphic design team doesn't know the final roster" argument, because they probably do know. They have to.

 

[WaxPython]

Never liked the name Skull Kid.

If he's in the game as a fighter I hope he's called Majora

 

[Idon]

Ugh, Tom Nook's going to be the next Chrom that gets memed into Smash.

 

[Misery Brick]

Honestly, with how much regurgitation that's been going on from me and different members tonight in regards to the theory. I'm literally feeling like my icon when debating this, haha.

I'm personally not putting any stock into this theory, but I am keeping it in the back of my head.
I just don't see it as plausible, given the marketing team most likely doesn't have assets or knowledge beyond what Nintendo has given them. Like Sakurai even said, no one knew about the reveals at E3.
After all, it is subject to change. I mean Isabelle isn't on the box for all we know.
Along with the fact that we don't exactly know the whole design of it.
Something to keep in mind is if they still need to keep the hype cycle going for Smash outside of showing off in game content.
While, yes, that could be used for marketing, nothing else gets a discussion about a fighting game going outside the characters.
So I find it weird Nintendo wouldn't drop anything for quite a bit.
Also, not to mention the fact that it doesn't line up with Verge's claims. After all, he's been extremely accurate with Smash info.

With that all said though, this could be a very real indication of what the base roster will turn out to be.
Like I said, I personally don't buy it, but I wouldn't be upset if it came out to be true.
while I'm not counting on it, I'm still hoping for my boys to join the roster.

 

[TheSmasher916]

This has already been brought up, and we actually do have reason to believe that the graphic designers who made this have insider knowledge. The box actually does seem to follow a very particular pattern with only one tiny hole in it which could only be explained if there is an echo fighter on the other side of the box. If they don't know about characters we don't, why would they arrange those characters in such a specific pattern only to break it for apparently no reason?

In fact, I believe the final box design has already been decided and this mock up is supposed to be a spoiler-free representation of it. It wouldn't make sense for them to have a design this close to ready to be shown if the graphic design team didn't already have a final design prepared. Box art is actually extremely important, and I doubt they're just going to quickly slap it together in the final weeks before release.

I get that much, maybe I phrased things a little differently than I should have. At least some aspect of the graphic design team certainly has access to some sort of insider info. My thing is that they probably only had access to a template of some sort, basic guidelines on how to arrange the box and how to accommodate the space for different numbers of portraits. This current orientation, given what we knew at the time of this image coming out, is the closest we could get to the full roster covering the entire known box layout. Any smaller of rows or larger of portraits and not all characters fit... and there'd be no reason to make them smaller at this point as that would only fuel unnecessary speculation because it would seem very out of place at this current time. Let's say that we had already had two more character reveals by this point, and the box was full... Would that mean that's it? No more characters..? Of course not, everyone would just figure that they would adjust the art accordingly to accommodate for more fighters.

I understand that there are some points of evidence which lead people to believe that this could be conclusive to something... But it's just a matter of pure coincidence with the amount of characters that we know/knew about and the layout of the box. There was no even way to spread out the full roster along this box given the orientation, spaces are inevitable.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, with how much regurgitation that's been going on from me and different members tonight in regards to the theory. I'm literally feeling like my icon when debating this, haha.

I'm personally not putting any stock into this theory, but I am keeping it in the back of my head.
I just don't see it as plausible, given the marketing team most likely doesn't have assets or knowledge beyond what Nintendo has given them. Like Sakurai even said, no one knew about the reveals at E3.
After all, it is subject to change. I mean Isabelle isn't on the box for all we know.
Along with the fact that we don't exactly know the whole design of it.
Something to keep in mind is if they reveal everyone before November 2nd, they have little over than a month with nothing to show outside of in game content.
While, yes, that could be used for marketing, nothing else gets a discussion about a fighting game going outside the characters.
So I find it weird Nintendo would drop everything a whole month before the game's release.
Also, not to mention the fact that it doesn't line up with Verge's claims. After all, he's been extremely accurate with Smash info.

With that all said though, this could be a very real indication of what the base roster will turn out to be.
Like I said, I personally don't buy it, but I wouldn't be upset if it came out to be true.
while I'm not counting on it, I'm still hoping for my boys to join the roster.

November 2nd doesn't matter.

This box and the Special Switch's box are two completely different boxes. This box won't be out until December 7th.

 

[Nethermoosen]

To clarify, I'm on the side of "it's has stuff going for it but it's still possible to be disproven".It's a counter to the "the graphic design team doesn't know the final roster" argument, because they probably do know. They have to.

By now? Probably. But if there are more than 72 characters, they still won’t show the spacing for it. Otherwise, what could now be an inconvenience to marketing becomes a totally obvious blunder.

Who knows, man? Who knows?

 

[Chrono.]

I don't exactly get why people are quick to dismiss the notion that there might be only 2 reveals left? Back in Smash 4 we were unsure if DLC was a thing so it was understandable there, but DLC happened and it was a huge success. There's no way DLC won't be a thing for Ultimate.

There's not much reason to be all doom and gloom, even if there's only 2 characters left in the base roster.

 

[Nonno Umby]

*Puts on tinfoil hat*
I might be delusional, but I think I'm on to something with this. This confirms an echo fighter for either ultshulk: or , and an additional newcomer. Now hear me out.

It seems that groups of fighters are organized by chunks of nine. It's explained further in the spoiler:

Spoiler

are mysteriously skipped. They would most likely all be on the left side of the box.
are on the right side. Then, it randomly skips a chunk of characters.
are the ones that are missing in that chunk, so they would be on the left side. Then,
are on the right side.
are skipped, meaning they are probably on the left side.
are on the right side. Now, the interesting part.
ultshulk: are skipped. But that's only 8 fighters, thus breaking the pattern. There may be an echo fighter in this chunk.
appear on the right side, leaving room for Isabelle and an additional newcomer.

I think this means Ken is all but confirmed now. But the only problem with this is the fact that I highly doubt that there are only two newcomers left. Of course, we'll just have to wait and see.

*Removes tinfoil hat*

Never forget to think outside of the box: there might be another row in the back of the box.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I think it's more then not just because him saying "2nd SE rep" came from nowhere.


Ken's completely understandable, and 'box theory' even supports his inclusion, and he was championing Gen7 for awhile.


"2nd SE rep" just came out of nowhere, to the point that other leakers who had been saying the same thing basically had no idea where he got that info from.

How is it any more "out of nowhere" than his prior leaks? He first claimed Ridley on reddit in reply to some random user asking him about Smash, he did that again when he first spoke of ICs/Belmont/no cuts and later Snake and later once more on Gamefaqs with Minecraft content, he claimed Isabelle when unprompted he created a thread claiming any "leaks" without her were fake, he claimed the new pokemon was in while disconfirming Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu in a Gamefaqs thread about a new pokemon in response to people asking him about it, he claimed Ken in a thread about a random "leak" to disconfirm it unprompted, and then claimed a SE character in response to people asking him if he knew more information after he disconfirmed the 4chan post claiming he said 2 Bandai Namco characters in a PM. That is some really shoddy reasoning to cherrypick the SE character out of Vergeben's claims to match it up with the box theory.

Also who are these other leakers backing the new pokemon and Ken up but denying the SE character?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So if Ken and Incineroar are indeed the last ones Base-wise. How many DLC characters do you guys think we'll get and how many uniques and echos?

 

[QrowinSP]

Somebody asked who I would want in the game if I could only get two more. Well, here's my take.

1. Demise. I want this guy as a Zelda rep. Why Demise? Well, what he would be is a full newcomer or Isabelle level semi-clone of ganondorf, and his purpose would be to play like Ganondorf would if he was added in right now. Falcondorf fans don't have to lose falcondorf, but zelda fans can still get the ganondorf we've always wanted.

2. Viridi or Medusa as a Palutena semi-clone, with super speed as a side b. I loved playing with super speed too much for it to not be in smash ultimate.

Those 2 together would be necessary for this game to truly be ultimate for me.

 

[Vycoul]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...
If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Banjo & Kazooie and Laharl from Disgaea.

 

[Nethermoosen]

How is it any more "out of nowhere" than his prior leaks? He first claimed Ridley on reddit in reply to some random user asking him about Smash, he did that again when he first spoke of ICs/Belmont/no cuts and later Snake/Minecraft content, he claimed Isabelle when unprompted he created a thread claiming any "leaks" without her were fake, he claimed the new pokemon was in while disconfirming Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu in a Gamefaqs thread about a new pokemon in response to people asking him about it, he claimed Ken in a thread about a random "leak" to disconfirm it unprompted, and then claimed a SE character in response to people asking him if knew more information after he disconfirmed the 4chan post claiming he said 2 Bandai Namco characters in a PM. That is some really shoddy reasoning to cherrypick the SE character out of Vergeben's claims to match it up with the box theory.

Also who are these other leakers backing the new pokemon and Ken up but denying the SE character?

Question: When he claimed there were 6 newcomers after Ridley, did he specify if they were unique?

 

[Misery Brick]

November 2nd doesn't matter.

This box and the Special Switch's box are two completely different boxes. This box won't be out until December 7th.

Oh. Well ****.
A lot of people were saying that this box was releasing by November 2nd. I guess I got that completely wrong.
Well even then, we still don't know the whole mass amount of characters and the box is still subject to change.
I mean we already know that, given how it's ordered and the fact that Isabelle isn't on the box from what we can see.
Still not buying it though.