Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Never liked the name Skull Kid.

If he's in the game as a fighter I hope he's called Majora

Calling Skull Kid, 'Majora' is the LoZ equivalent of calling Samus, 'Metroid'

 

[Michael the Spikester]

2. Viridi or Medusa as a Palutena semi-clone, with super speed as a side b. I loved playing with super speed too much for it to not be in smash ultimate.

Medusa IMO makes the most sense. Same height and structure, wields staff, opposites being light and dark whom the two are the goddesses of. Viridi on the other hand doesn't have the height and structure to be one and she'd also have different abilities due to being the Goddess of Nature so I'd presume plant based abilities.

I also feel by picking Medusa would perfectly balance the Kid Icarus roster. 2 uniques, 2 echos. Two lights, two darks. Perfect.

 

[TheSmasher916]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Geno and Banjo for sure.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Impa and Banjo. To complete my trifecta of most wanted characters along with K Rool

 

[Idon]

So if Ken and Incineroar are indeed the last ones Base-wise. How many DLC characters do you guys think we'll get and how many uniques and echos?

I think we're going to get 6 or 7, a character a month for a year after the initial DLC and I think all will be full characters, due to echoes only existing due to using little time and resources, which DLC shouldn't have a problem with.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Question: When he claimed there were 6 newcomers after Ridley, did he specify if they were unique?

He never has, I don't know if anyone has even asked him that.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Question: When he claimed there were 6 newcomers after Ridley, did he specify if they were unique?

No. All he said was there is at least 6 more characters.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Calling Skull Kid, 'Majora' is the LoZ equivalent of calling Samus, 'Metroid'

Not quite, since there actually is an entity called Majora that's controlling the Skull Kid. It's more like calling possessed Robin "Grima".

 

[Nethermoosen]

He never has, I don't know if anyone has even asked him that.

Okay. Thank you. I remembered it as unique fighters. Lots of folks said that and I guess I got confused.
Appreciate the clarification.

 

[vaanrose]

While I'd argue the marketing team is definitely need-to-know, even if we assume they aren't, they could have still been given this exact character order to use by the people who are. The idea that the person who made this promo art doesn't know the full roster and the idea that the box is still (unintentionally) pointing toward an echo in Ryu's row don't need to be mutually exclusive. Hell, the marketing team could release this image without realizing it's giving something away because they themselves don't realize it gives something away.

 

[QrowinSP]

Medusa IMO makes the most sense. Same height and structure, wields staff, opposites being light and dark whom the two are the goddesses of. Viridi on the other hand doesn't have the height and structure to be one and she'd also have different abilities due to being the Goddess of Nature so I'd presume plant based abilities.

She could be a sort of Isabelle like semi-clone, where a lot is reused but she's ultimately her own fighter.

I see what you mean about Medusa being easier, but there's also the fact that, all in all, she's actually a really minor character. Most of the hype around her I've noticed comes from people who don't play the kid icarus games, which actually barely feature her.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think we're going to get 6 or 7, a character a month for a year after the initial DLC and I think all will be full characters, due to echoes only existing due to using little time and resources, which DLC shouldn't have a problem with.

Sounds about right. 6 especially would round it out with a whooping 82.

 

[Zinith]

If we're still tearing our throats out when I get back home from work, I have a bottle of rum waiting for me. It's gonna be a long night...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

She could be a sort of Isabelle like semi-clone, where a lot is reused but she's ultimately her own fighter.

I see what you mean about Medusa being easier, but there's also the fact that, all in all, she's actually a really minor character. Most of the hype around her I've noticed comes from people who don't play the kid icarus games, which actually barely feature her.

Don't forget Sakurai bias is on her side. There's still hope but it'd have to be DLC.

Even if she doesn't get in. She and King K. Rool are still my official Smash shipping.

 

[Impa4Smash]

She could be a sort of Isabelle like semi-clone, where a lot is reused but she's ultimately her own fighter.

I see what you mean about Medusa being easier, but there's also the fact that, all in all, she's actually a really minor character. Most of the hype around her I've noticed comes from people who don't play the kid icarus games, which actually barely feature her.

She is the OG villain though. That’s why I’d prefer her over Viridi

Plus her Uprising design is dope

 

[Chrono.]

She could be a sort of Isabelle like semi-clone, where a lot is reused but she's ultimately her own fighter.

I see what you mean about Medusa being easier, but there's also the fact that, all in all, she's actually a really minor character. Most of the hype around her I've noticed comes from people who don't play the kid icarus games, which actually barely feature her.

She's the main villain and final boss of the NES original.

 

[WaxPython]

Calling Skull Kid, 'Majora' is the LoZ equivalent of calling Samus, 'Metroid'

Well not exactly, he's possessed by Majora's mask which is an embodiment of Majora so by extension he is Majora.

 

[QrowinSP]

Don't forget Sakurai bias is on her side. There's still hope but it'd have to be DLC.

Even if she doesn't get in. She and King K. Rool are still my official Smash shipping.

I mean, if you want to get into smash shipping, Viridi and Dark Pit are currently teaming up to fight Palutena and Pit....

In all seriousness, I think there is a good chance she gets in because of A: Sakurai Bias, and B: Sakurai not wanting to throw out the alternate palutena moves.

 

[Ridrool64]

No matter what, I think DLC is going to take a very long while. The only reason Smash 4 had such a short DLC run was because everybody knew that the Wii U was a sinking ship, and the Switch is not one of those. I think at least 12 unique fighters will be introduced: half of them characters we've wanted, the others are going to be characters who couldn't make it back then like Spring Man or the token Pokémon/Squeenix 2. When it's all said and done, we'll either be at or near 100 unique Fighters at most (at least 82 unique Fighters). Before DLC, I'd count on something a little more tame, 70/69 unique fighters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

No matter what, I think DLC is going to take a very long while. The only reason Smash 4 had such a short DLC run was because everybody knew that the Wii U was a sinking ship, and the Switch is not one of those. I think at least 12 unique fighters will be introduced: half of them characters we've wanted, the others are going to be characters who couldn't make it back then like Spring Man or the token Pokémon/Squeenix 2. When it's all said and done, we'll either be at or near 100 unique Fighters at most (at least 82 unique Fighters). Before DLC, I'd count on something a little more tame, 70/69 unique fighters.

As much as 100 characters would be great. I'm doubtful that would happen. One can dream.

 

[QrowinSP]

She's the main villain and final boss of the NES original.

She has almost no presence in the original game, only showing up in the last 2 minutes and as a blurb in the story. She does not appear in the second game. In Uprising, she has a major speaking role in 2 of the 25 chapters.

Viridi only appears in Uprising, but has a major speaking role in 13 of the 25 chapters. There's a reason she was chosen as a recurring cast member in palutena's guidance.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean, if you want to get into smash shipping, Viridi and Dark Pit are currently teaming up to fight Palutena and Pit....

In all seriousness, I think there is a good chance she gets in because of A: Sakurai Bias, and B: Sakurai not wanting to throw out the alternate palutena moves.

Hopefully you are right. She along with Banjo-Kazooie and Black Shadow are my three most current wants even if the odds are seemingly low at this point. Not gonna give up though! DLC is always an option too.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Question: When he claimed there were 6 newcomers after Ridley, did he specify if they were unique?

This. I also wonder if Sakurai counts Echo Fighters as "New Challengers" whom we shouldn't expect too many of?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

She is the OG villain though. That’s why I’d prefer her over Viridi

Plus her Uprising design is dope

You and me both! Despite how small her appearance was in the original game. She has lot of history with Pit and Palutena and basically Pit's answer to her as Mario is to Bowser, Donkey Kong to King K. Rool, Link to Ganondorf and Samus to Ridley.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Unless there's an out-of-left-field announcement that crunches this theory, this is really my last post until the next character reveal.

I now make peace with unique Isabelle. She actually looks extremely different and fun to play.

I now make peace with 103 stages being the final count. I was willing to accept it before, but now I'll regard it as fact. It is more than enough, and a blessing.

I now make peace with a newcomer count of 11. Sakurai had told us beforehand not to expect too many new characters, and 11 is even fewer than the original game introduced, but with so many heavy hitters and fan-demanded characters, building to a 76-character roster, it is incredible.

All of this, even before whatever Spirits mode is (which I BET will be incredible), whether Event matches or Break the Targets are back, anything else being confirmed... I stand firm in a belief that Smash Ultimate will be one of the best games ever made, and sincerely thank Sakurai from the bottom of my heart for delivering such an incredible gift to an often divided and often ungrateful fanbase. We really don't deserve him, or this game, but he delivers nonetheless. Thank you, Masahiro Sakurai, and thanks to the entire development team. I can't wait to shelve my Smash-4-playing-box and sink a whole new 800+ hours into this series.

 

[Impa4Smash]

She has almost no presence in the original game, only showing up in the last 2 minutes and as a blurb in the story. She does not appear in the second game. In Uprising, she has a major speaking role in 2 of the 25 chapters.

Viridi only appears in Uprising, but has a major speaking role in 13 of the 25 chapters. There's a reason she was chosen as a recurring cast member in palutena's guidance.

Only appears at the end of the game? Sounds familiar

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Only appears at the end of the game? Sounds familiar

Don't forget in his debut appearance. All the other "" were really goombas or such in costumes if you defeat them in on all seven worlds with fire power or a star.

inclusion also throws relevancy out of the window.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Has anyone brought up that the box theory and Vergeben go against each other? Box theory says two more characters are coming, Vergeben has three more.

Not telling anyone to believe one or the other, just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Okay. Thank you. I remembered it as unique fighters. Lots of folks said that and I guess I got confused.
Appreciate the clarification.

People were assuming he meant that under the belief Echoes wouldn't be counted in such a figure, but it remains to be clarified.

 

[Zinith]

Kamek is more prominent in Yoshi games than most of the other villains in THEIR games...

 

[DooplissWizard]

Even though I’d be fine with just Ken and Incineroar, the one major thing making me hesitant on the box leak is the lack of Shadow. The fact that his assist trophy is not only missing, but seemingly replaced by Knuckles is already interesting, but I feel that the introduction of third party echoes on top of this makes him into one of the closest characters to a lock we have right now. With all the evidence pointing towards him, I’d be shocked if he wasn’t in. In my opinion, we’ll probably get a Ken/Incineroar trailer in October, and a final direct in November revealing Shadow and 2-3 more characters.

 

[Impa4Smash]

My post Direct predictions for the final roster are now Incineroar, Geno, and either Banjo or Skull Kid for unique fighters.

And then Shadow, Ken, Dixie, and either Impa or Black Knight for echoes.

Making 8 unique newcomers, and 8 echoes total for base

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Kamek is more prominent in Yoshi games than most of the other villains in THEIR games...

Kamek definitely would had fitted for the now likely debunked heroes vs. rivals/villains theme.

Mario vs. Bowser
Donkey Kong vs. King K. Rool
Link vs. Ganondorf
Samus vs. Ridley
Yoshi vs. Kamek
Kirby vs. Meta Knight
Fox vs. Wolf
Pikachu vs. Meowth (deconfirmed sadly)
Luigi vs. King Boo
Ness vs. Porky Minch
Captain Falcon vs. Black Shadow
Jigglypuff vs. ???

 

[Impa4Smash]

Has anyone brought up that the box theory and Vergeben go against each other? Box theory says two more characters are coming, Vergeben has three more.

Not telling anyone to believe one or the other, just thought I'd bring it up.

It’s been brought up. I don’t personally believe just cuz of how it could be updated; not include some, be a placeholder, etc

Kamek is more prominent in Yoshi games than most of the other villains in THEIR games...

Kamek would be such an awesome 2nd Yoshi Rep. I wish.

 

[HyruleHero]

Even though I’d be fine with just Ken and Incineroar, the one major thing making me hesitant on the box leak is the lack of Shadow. The fact that his assist trophy is not only missing, but seemingly replaced by Knuckles is already interesting, but I feel that the introduction of third party echoes on top of this makes him into one of the closest characters to a lock we have right now. With all the evidence pointing towards him, I’d be shocked if he wasn’t in. In my opinion, we’ll probably get a Ken/Incineroar trailer in October, and a final direct in November revealing Shadow and 2-3 more characters.

you mean like how Mr. Reseti's assist trophy was replaced with Isabelle or Isaacs assist trophy was removed but he didn't become playable. That logic is flawed and shouldn't indicate that they are going to be fighters at all.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

How will you guys react if Mr. Reseti returns as an assist trophy. I heard he was removed from Smash 4 because people didn't like him.

 

[osby]

I honestly couldn't interested in "heroes vs villains" less but it'd cool if we are going to get such theme in a mode, we already have a lot; even if you don't count the boss characters like Dracula.

I think adding more don't have much marginal utility.

 

[RandomAce]

Interesting, though something regarding the last paragraph.

Vergeben has made it clear before that he didn't want to leak Incineroar because he and his sources weren't 100% in agreement that it was the Pokemon in question that was in the game, not because it would put his sources in danger. There's a reason why he PM'd Loz18 about it, and was particularly annoyed when loz leaked it out.

Well, that’s basically it.

I mentioned it in my last paragraph that the fact that he only heard it from one reliable source is what made inclined to not leak Incineroar since none of the other sources said anything about it.

Oh and I found the post where Delz mentioned it. It was in the Lycanroc thread a while back, so it may have some things that are meant to be in support for it in the excerpt, I hope it doesn’t bother you.

So...strange night, huh? Where do we stand now after this whiplash of rumors?

I have no idea.

Full disclosure: There's a reason I waited to say something. I was messaged by someone earlier, between Vergeben's first post and his second. I won't say who for confidentiality reasons, but it's someone who I know wouldn't deliberately deceive me, who I wasn't aware was privy to these same rumors about Ultimate. They relayed me what they heard, and it was exactly the same as Vergeben's second post a short while later.

However. They also mentioned that they, and some other insiders whose names they didn't give, weren't as confident about the rumors surrounding the Pokémon newcomer in particular. They didn't elaborate, for understandable reasons, but apparently something made this one iffier than Simon or Isabelle. Considering Vergeben dropped the latter's name last week in what appeared to be a fit of frustration over the community falling for fake leaks so easily, there's a chance--I don't know how likely--that he may have made a tragic mistake, and jumped the gun here and said something based on information that hadn't been confirmed.

In other words, this may be a repeat of the Gematsu Leak during Smash 4 speculation: Mostly correct, but with a few slip ups, potentially as a result of the leaker jumping to conclusions they shouldn't have. We are now in the exact same position Robin was four years ago...with no idea if we'll see the same redemption.

Hope it helps.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

This box leak **** is hogwash, it is

 

[WingedSupernova]

Discounting realism and what you personally think is going to happen...

If there really were only 2 characters left, who would you want them to be?

Shantae and Phoenix Wright