Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

What secret characters do you think we could get in Ultimate? Every Smash game always has them.
I think likely candidates are Mach Rider, Chous Kids, Ken or some other unrevealed Echo Fighter, and Mike Jones from Star Tropics.

RandomAce One newcomer and one echo left? Did I miss something while I was gone?

 

[Flynn__]

There's something that I don't understand about this box theory thing. So we see that there are two spaces left, bu we also see that there's no Isabelle. Wouldn't that mean that there's only one character left? She has to take one of those two spots. Maybe there's something that I'm not getting haha

Not that it matters, cause I don't believe that's the box's final design. There's no way Nintendo would reveal this soon the final roster size. ALTHOUGH, to be fair in the web there's only two spots next to Isabelle, but if what we have left is one echo and one newcomer the character count would stop at 69, which is kind of awkward. I don't know, I'm confusion.

Edit: oh I think I get it now. It's because one of them is an echo. Nevermind.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

What secret characters do you think we could get in Ultimate? Every Smash game always has them.
I think likely candidates are Mach Rider, Chous Kids, Ken or some other unrevealed Echo Fighter, and Mike Jones from Star Tropics.

RandomAce One newcomer and one echo left? Did I miss something while I was gone?

Sakurai said that all the characters will be revealed before release, so none.

 

[HyruleHero]

There's something that I don't understand about this box theory thing. So we see that there are two spaces left, bu we also see that there's no Isabelle. Wouldn't that mean that there's only one character left? She has to take one of those two spots. Maybe there's something that I'm not getting haha

Not that it matters, cause I don't believe that's the box's final design. There's no way Nintendo would reveal this soon the final roster size. ALTHOUGH, to be fair in the web there's only two spots next to Isabelle, but if what we have left is one echo and one newcomer the character count would stop at 69, which is kind of awkward. I don't know, I'm confusion.

Don't expect the website to look pretty in the end the smash dojo for wiiu definitely didn't

 

[hazza5557]

I think Ken and one more character would be fine especially if we’re getting DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

why would Geno being the last reveal make sense, I think it would make more sense for him not to be in the game. I understand that Sakurai likes the character and that a good majority of vocal smash fans want him in but I don't think he's as hype inducing as people make him out to be.

personally Id be more hyped for Incineroar as I actually know that character. I grew up with smash bros (at least I was the target audience fro melee at the time before it became a full fledged pro sport) and I know a lot of Nintendo characters and Geno would not be hype for the last reveal.

If Sakurai wants proper hype for the last reveal at this stage it would need to be a third party character like someone from Dragon quest, mortal combat, or Banjo and Kazooie etc. (this could just be me trying to find a good excuse for Sora to come to smash though so I dunno).

Yeah, it would make sense if Geno wasn't in this game.

...Had Sakurai not listened to the fans more than any other Smash game, added in Ridley and King K. Rool, and so forth. If anything, not adding in Geno probably is gonna be the biggest controversial decision at the moment, even more so when you have the Holy Trinity left with just two. You can't end it more than halfway, you gotta go all in.

Sakurai knows that Geno has been requested for such a long time and knows how much of an impact Super Mario RPG has left on the gaming industry. It would be his biggest blemish on his career to miss this 10-year long opportunity, especially given how badly he wanted to make him fit in Brawl.

 

[Nonno Umby]

What secret characters do you think we could get in Ultimate? Every Smash game always has them.
I think likely candidates are Mach Rider, Chous Kids, Ken or some other unrevealed Echo Fighter, and Mike Jones from Star Tropics.

Sakurai already confirmed that there will not be any secret character. They will all be announced before release.

Also dudes, calm down: that boxart isn't final since it lacked Isabelle, and I really doubt they would have let someone extern know the exact number of fighters considering how they are avoiding leak.
Also the fact that it lacked Isabelle but has Simon means that it was made anytime between August and now, and the European LE with Simon was revealed in August.
My take is that the graphic artist received these 69 characters and had to arrange them on two sides. If he made 70 spaces he would have to use a 5x7 format, with 72 a clean 6x6. He just went with what was good looking, especially since it isn't the final version.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai already confirmed that there will not be any secret character. They will all be announced before release.

Also dudes, calm down: that boxart isn't final since it lacked Isabelle, and I really doubt they would have let someone extern know the exact number of fighters considering how they are avoiding leak.
Also the fact that it lacked Isabelle but has Simon means that it was made anytime between August and now, and the European LE with Simon was revealed in August.
My take is that the graphic artist received these 69 characters and had to arrange them on two sides. If he made 70 spaces he would have to use a 5x7 format, with 72 a clean 6x6. He just went with what was good looking, especially since it isn't the final version.

Really? Well that's a first.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, it would make sense if Geno wasn't in this game.

...Had Sakurai not listened to the fans more than any other Smash game, added in Ridley and King K. Rool, and so forth. If anything, not adding in Geno probably is gonna be the biggest controversial decision at the moment, even more so when you have the Holy Trinity left with just two. You can't end it more than halfway, you gotta go all in.

Sakurai knows that Geno has been requested for such a long time and knows how much of an impact Super Mario RPG has left on the gaming industry. It would be his biggest blemish on his career to miss this 10-year long opportunity, especially given how badly he wanted to make him fit in Brawl.

Holy trinity huh? Say nothing about Isaac or Bandanna Dee or any other super popular character. I get that Geno is really popular inside the Smash community but that's just it. Inside the Smash community is where his popularity ends. On the other hand Kirby fans would be supporting anything Kirby and that includes Dee in Smash. Should we even really get into Isaac? Dude's been one of the most heavily requested characters since 2001 and Golden Sun fans have been clamoring for any way of getting a new Golden Sun and that especially includes Isaac in Smash. Saying Geno is a part some sort of preordained destiny of a "Holy Trinity" is really, REALLY pushing it.

Yeah, he's super popular but him being anymore popular than other characters is arguable at best. Hell, Geno and Isaac don't even come a hair close to K. Rool and Ridley's popularity so putting either of them up there with those two is just incorrect.

 

[HyruleHero]

Yeah, it would make sense if Geno wasn't in this game.

...Had Sakurai not listened to the fans more than any other Smash game, added in Ridley and King K. Rool, and so forth. If anything, not adding in Geno probably is gonna be the biggest controversial decision at the moment, even more so when you have the Holy Trinity left with just two. You can't end it more than halfway, you gotta go all in.

Sakurai knows that Geno has been requested for such a long time and knows how much of an impact Super Mario RPG has left on the gaming industry. It would be his biggest blemish on his career to miss this 10-year long opportunity, especially given how badly he wanted to make him fit in Brawl.

I get that he is popular but to negotiate with Square for Geno seems like a huge waste as almost all the other Square creations would bring out a much better response from a global audience for smash. Nintendo is first and for most a business so adding Geno for the people whom already play smash when they already added Ridley and K. Rool for them seems wrong. Nintendo would be better off asking from Square either for a Dragon Quest Hero or another Final Fantasy character that would bring other audiences into the game more.

on a business stand point Geno is a bad idea though i understand your point about appealing to the fans but surely he's already done that with Ridley, K. Rool and even Simon Belmont to an extent.

 

[StormC]

I get that he is popular but to negotiate with Square for Geno seems like a huge waste as almost all the other Square creations would bring out a much better response from a global audience for smash. Nintendo is first and for most a business so adding Geno for the people whom already play smash when they already added Ridley and K. Rool for them seems wrong. Nintendo would be better off asking from Square either for a Dragon Quest Hero or another Final Fantasy character that would bring other audiences into the game more.

on a business stand point Geno is a bad idea though i understand your point about appealing to the fans but surely he's already done that with Ridley, K. Rool and even Simon Belmont to an extent.

They already put a Geno costume up for purchasable DLC instead of any multitude of various iconic Square characters.

The "global audience" already has a Square character they can play as. Geno would bring a lot of good will to Smash and Nintendo as brands for the future and make fans think more positively about them going forward. Not a Geno supporter per se, but I can definitely see the reasoning of catering to your hardcore fans to build a longterm healthy relationship with them.

 

[HyruleHero]

They already put a Geno costume up for purchasable DLC instead of any multitude of various iconic Square characters.

The "global audience" already has a Square character they can play as. Geno would bring a lot of good will to Smash and Nintendo as brands for the future and make fans think more positively about them going forward. Not a Geno supporter per se, but I can definitely see the reasoning of catering to your hardcore fans to build a longterm healthy relationship with them.

This sounds like you need Geno for the game to be good. I think Nintendo has done plenty for the current fans through mechanics and Ridley and K. Rool If the fans truely think Nintendo fails as a company if they dont treat this select group of people to Geno then I feel they aren't fans worth keeping.

I know I sound really negative and im not trying I just can't find a good justification for Geno in a game where they could get a different character and bring in a whole new audience. :\

 

[Deleted member]

Why do people seem to be pulling for Geno so much? Not saying I'm opposing it, just noting that a lot of people really, really seem to want to this guy in Ultimate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Anyone else think we might get our first taste of DLC at The Game Awards on the 6th of December? I find it pretty likely considering how big of a deal this game will be for Nintendo going into 2019. Plus, The Game Awards is literally a day before the game releases. And before you say they won't announce DLC before release, they already did it with Mewtwo back in the 50-Fact Extravaganza. Even if 3DS WAS already out, it was still announced in the Wii U centric 50 Fact video before release.

snip.

To be clear in my above post I'm not saying Geno is unlikely, en contraire, I actually think he's very likely, maybe as DLC though if we really are only getting two more characters. Not saying I'm 100% on board with the box theory but I digress. I'm just pointing out that saying he's a part of some Holy Trinity or Big 3 is, uh, wrong. He's nowhere near as popular as K. Rool or Ridley. It's not even a contest. So lumping him in with those two is ignorant.

 

[StormC]

Also, attempts to figure new "holy trinities" or whatnot will fall flat. There will probably never be characters as heavily speculated and requested as

Bandana Dee will get a big bump if he isn't in this game though. Like I said before, he will be the most speculated Smash 6 character.

This sounds like you need Geno for the game to be good. I think Nintendo has done plenty for the current fans through mechanics and Ridley and K. Rool If the fans truely think Nintendo fails as a company if they dont treat this select group of people to Geno then I feel they aren't fans worth keeping.

I know I sound really negative and im not trying I just can't find a good justification for Geno in a game where they could get a different character and bring in a whole new audience. :\

Bro, I literally just said I'm not a Geno supporter. I don't personally think he's "Smash worthy." I am 100% already satisfied with the roster and got all of my biggest character requests in. But Geno is popular among diehard Smash fans (whatever reason that may be), and Nintendo showing that they are willing to grant such a ridiculous request would tell Smash fans "we're listening." That brings good will going forward. Obviously the dastardly duo already do that, but Geno would just hammer it in more considering how obscure and hard-to-get he is. Plus at the end of the day, Sakurai likes him, and he's in charge.

Why do people seem to be pulling for Geno so much? Not saying I'm opposing it, just noting that a lot of people really, really seem to want to this guy in Ultimate.

It all started with a little video...

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Why do people seem to be pulling for Geno so much? Not saying I'm opposing it, just noting that a lot of people really, really seem to want to this guy in Ultimate.

It’s been a longing desire since Brawl that has somehow grown exponentially.

He’s a cool character in a great game but even I don’t know how he attracted such a huge set of fans.

 

[Zinith]

Why do people seem to be pulling for Geno so much? Not saying I'm opposing it, just noting that a lot of people really, really seem to want to this guy in Ultimate.

*shrugs*

But he's the best bet for Boshi to get in, so...

 

[Deleted member]

Holy trinity huh? Say nothing about Isaac or Bandanna Dee or any other super popular character. I get that Geno is really popular inside the Smash community but that's just it. Inside the Smash community is where his popularity ends. On the other hand Kirby fans would be supporting anything Kirby and that includes Dee in Smash. Should we even really get into Isaac? Dude's been one of the most heavily requested characters since 2001 and Golden Sun fans have been clamoring for any way of getting a new Golden Sun and that especially includes Isaac in Smash. Saying Geno is a part some sort of preordained destiny of a "Holy Trinity" is really, REALLY pushing it.

Yeah, he's super popular but him being anymore popular than other characters is arguable at best. Hell, Geno and Isaac don't even come a hair close to K. Rool and Ridley's popularity so putting either of them up there with those two is just incorrect.

No, it isn't pushing it. Geno's popularity isn't "just Smash". That's like saying "Fight Against an Armed Boss isn't a revered song on the internet". This really is nothing more than a fabricated falsification and I don't know why people keep on saying this when Super Mario RPG has been revered as a classic to this day. You can say that exact same thing about Isaac and Golden Sun, because the only game out of that entire franchise that gets talked of is the first one, and even then it's still a vastly niche IP, alongside other franchises like Advance Wars and Sin and Punishment. And much like those franchises, who really talks about them anymore?

And again, Geno has been requested since the pre-Brawl days for a really long time, much like Ridley and King K. Rool. Bandana Dee only has gotten popularity and found his way after Kirby's Return to Dreamland and even then that really isn't much to go off of.

I get that he is popular but to negotiate with Square for Geno seems like a huge waste as almost all the other Square creations would bring out a much better response from a global audience for smash. Nintendo is first and for most a business so adding Geno for the people whom already play smash when they already added Ridley and K. Rool for them seems wrong. Nintendo would be better off asking from Square either for a Dragon Quest Hero or another Final Fantasy character that would bring other audiences into the game more.

on a business stand point Geno is a bad idea though i understand your point about appealing to the fans but surely he's already done that with Ridley, K. Rool and even Simon Belmont to an extent.

Dragon Quest is only starting to get some traction in the United States, but still, the only country that really hammers support for Dragon Quest is Japan. We would've already gotten a Dragon Quest character by now, if this were the case. Terra and other Final Fantasy characters would be nice, but you have to remember that they're using Final Fantasy VII to represent that franchise. Unless if there was a massive labeling change, we're never gonna get another Final Fantasy character.

The only Square Enix character that will garner massive amounts of praise is Geno, it's just common sense. Remember that tweet of them celebrating Mario RPG? People. Love. The. Game. Outside. Of. Smash.
How would it be bad from a business standpoint? If that were the case, King K. Rool would never be in the roster. Castlevania wouldn't be in the roster, given how dead and dormant the franchise is.

 

[The Hat Trick]

Also, attempts to figure new "holy trinities" or whatnot will fall flat. There will probably never be characters as heavily speculated and requested as

Bandana Dee will get a big bump if he isn't in this game though. Like I said before, he will be the most speculated Smash 6 character.



Bro, I literally just said I'm not a Geno supporter. I don't personally think he's "Smash worthy." I am 100% already satisfied with the roster and got all of my biggest character requests in. But Geno is popular among diehard Smash fans (whatever reason that may be), and Nintendo showing that they are willing to grant such a ridiculous request would tell Smash fans "we're listening." That brings good will going forward. Obviously the dastardly duo already do that, but Geno would just hammer it in more considering how obscure and hard-to-get he is. Plus at the end of the day, Sakurai likes him, and he's in charge.



It all started with a little video...

I never thought I would see that video again, yet here we are LOL.

 

[zauberdragon]

It might just be because I’m from the UK, where super mario RPG didn’t see a release till much later, but I feel there’s not as much hype around Geno when talking to local Smash fans. Is it fair to say he’s more popular with North American Smash fans than European ones?

I have played super mario RPG when it initially released in Europe on Wii virtual console and if Geno is announced I’ll probably replay it on the SNES mini and I can see how and why he could work. The main thing he’s got going for him is Sakurai is heavily pushing fan requested characters and as someone who’s been following smash speculation since pre-brawl I can’t disagree that he’s had a vocal fan base for over 10 years now.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I would say if anything that Isaac, King K. Rool and Ridley are the Holy Trinity. Two of which had finally gotten in. Assuming the box theory isn't true. The former still has a shot for DLC.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

why would Geno being the last reveal make sense, I think it would make more sense for him not to be in the game. I understand that Sakurai likes the character and that a good majority of vocal smash fans want him in but I don't think he's as hype inducing as people make him out to be.

personally Id be more hyped for Incineroar as I actually know that character. I grew up with smash bros (at least I was the target audience fro melee at the time before it became a full fledged pro sport) and I know a lot of Nintendo characters and Geno would not be hype for the last reveal.

If Sakurai wants proper hype for the last reveal at this stage it would need to be a third party character like someone from Dragon quest, mortal combat, or Banjo and Kazooie etc. (this could just be me trying to find a good excuse for Sora to come to smash though so I dunno).

So Duck Hunt was the last character added to Smash 4. Did he bring the hype

 

[SmashShadow]

Personally I have no experience with Geno whatsoever and just like his design and the look of SMRPG. That and I love his theme song.

 

[ErenJager]

There's a handful of characters i'd like to see in Smash, but Geno is sorta the last character that I need in Smash.

 

[The Hat Trick]

There's a handful of characters i'd like to see in Smash, but Geno is sorta the last character that I need in Smash.

Well that's the thing about Geno, you either like him or you don't. And that really is based off of if you've played one specific game. Gotta respect the die hards though.

 

[HyruleHero]

That's like saying "Fight Against an Armed Boss isn't a revered song on the internet".

Umm, not sure if this was sarcasm or I'm just uncultured but... I've never heard that song...

Geno has been requested since the pre-Brawl days for a really long time

Lots of characters have been requested since brawl days, Banjo, Sora, etc and a bunch have got in now but that isn't a valid reason for Geno.

Dragon Quest is only starting to get some traction in the United States, but still, the only country that really hammers support for Dragon Quest is Japan.

In that case isn't it even more logical for a Dragon Quest character to get in. Fire Emblem only really released in America thanks to melee so a DQ character would help that franchise in America logically speaking.

 

[StormC]

I would say if anything that Isaac, King K. Rool and Ridley are the Holy Trinity. Two of which had finally gotten in. Assuming the box theory isn't true. The former still has a shot for DLC.

Isaac isn't really comparable IMO because his support was more lowkey until the ballot where it exploded, and now he's seen as a frontrunner.

K. Rool and Ridley have been heavily demanded and speculated for at least a decade, with some fans wanting them as far back as Melee. Ridley was seen as a frontrunner since at least Brawl and K. Rool blew up with the confirmation of Diddy, later both being "the" characters to request along with Mega Man and Mewtwo for Smash 4. Ridley's rejections of course became infamous, and K. Rool seemingly just got outright ignored until the costume, with the perceived relevance issue being his "too big." So many memes, fanart, videos, and articles have been made regarding these two characters, and of course, because of the overlapping appeal, their fanbases were tight-knit with each other.

There is really no character that compares to the many years and requests these two endured. Other characters might have been more demanded at a time, like Mega Man or Sonic, but they didn't have to wait so long and inspire so much speculation. That's what makes them special, and why we will probably never again see characters like them in Smash speculation.

It's a bittersweet feeling.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Isaac isn't really comparable IMO because his support was more lowkey until the ballot where it exploded, and now he's seen as a frontrunner.

K. Rool and Ridley have been heavily demanded and speculated for at least a decade, with some fans wanting them as far back as Melee. Ridley was seen as a frontrunner since at least Brawl and K. Rool blew up with the confirmation of Diddy, later both being "the" characters to request along with Mega Mand and Mewtwo for Smash 4. Ridley's rejections of course became infamous, and K. Rool seemingly just got outright ignored until the costume, with the perceived relevance issue being his "too big." So many memes, fanart, videos, and articles have been made regarding these two characters, and of course, because of the overlapping appeal, their fanbases were tight-knit with each other.

There is really no character that compares to the many years and requests these two endured. Other characters might have been more demanded at a time, like Mega Man or Sonic, but they didn't have to wait so long and inspire so much speculation. That's what makes them special, and why we will probably never again see characters like them in Smash speculation.

It's a bittersweet feeling.

Ah okay. Guess I misinterpreted the whole since Melee thing.

 

[StormC]

Well that's the thing about Geno, you either like him or you don't. And that really is based off of if you've played one specific game. Gotta respect the die hards though.

I've played SMRPG before a lot of posters on this board were born. It's one of my all time favorite games but Geno is not one of the most memorable elements of it by any means. I just don't consider a supporting character from a spin-off over 20 years ago to be worthy of Smash, but if he's in, he's in.

 

[osby]

Isaac isn't really comparable IMO because his support was more lowkey until the ballot where it exploded, and now he's seen as a frontrunner.

K. Rool and Ridley have been heavily demanded and speculated for at least a decade, with some fans wanting them as far back as Melee. Ridley was seen as a frontrunner since at least Brawl and K. Rool blew up with the confirmation of Diddy, later both being "the" characters to request along with Mega Man and Mewtwo for Smash 4. Ridley's rejections of course became infamous, and K. Rool seemingly just got outright ignored until the costume, with the perceived relevance issue being his "too big." So many memes, fanart, videos, and articles have been made regarding these two characters, and of course, because of the overlapping appeal, their fanbases were tight-knit with each other.

There is really no character that compares to the many years and requests these two endured. Other characters might have been more demanded at a time, like Mega Man or Sonic, but they didn't have to wait so long and inspire so much speculation. That's what makes them special, and why we will probably never again see characters like them in Smash speculation.

It's a bittersweet feeling.

It's just sweet for me. I'd cut freaking Mario to never experience Ridleyboards or K.Rool DLC fiasco again.

 

[The Hat Trick]

I've played SMRPG before a lot of posters on this board were born. It's one of my all time favorite games but Geno is not one of the most memorable elements of it by any means. I just don't consider a supporting character from a spin-off over 20 years ago to be worthy of Smash, but if he's in, he's in.

Which really is a totally fair argument. Which it stinks because he's a cool character but I agree with you. There's just not enough there for him to be amongst the truly iconic Nintendo characters. In my honest opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Umm, not sure if this was sarcasm or I'm just uncultured but... I've never heard that song...

Lots of characters have been requested since brawl days, Banjo, Sora, etc and a bunch have got in now but that isn't a valid reason for Geno.

In that case isn't it even more logical for a Dragon Quest character to get in. Fire Emblem only really released in America thanks to melee so a DQ character would help that franchise in America logically speaking.

Fight Against an Armed Boss was a part of the Super Mario RPG OST. Back around 2010, it was a phenomenon in Japan to use this song for remixes with anime, memes and so forth. You can find plenty of them on YouTube by using "危険な○○シリーズ". Also, note how videos have over 3 million views.

And even then in regards to Brawl characters, who's left after the amount of people they got in? Banjo and Geno really are the only ones that have much traction. I don't see Sora being in without having Donald and Goofy in some way. Also, the difference between Fire Emblem and Dragon Quest is that Fire Emblem is directly a Nintendo-owned IP. Dragon Quest has released on other platforms and has never been a directly-Nintendo IP since the Super Famicom days. Given how valuable each character getting in is nowadays, it doesn't make sense to try and advertise a still fletchling RPG franchise that most people have probably played on PlayStation.

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I'm honestly hard pressed NOT to believe in the music theory.

The fact that they actually went out of their way to move the Animal Crossing song out a week so Isabelle would be on the site first is....really odd.


Why? Her trailer didn't even have a new remix, and it's not like having the song on the site would raises suspicions at all. Why would they move the song out before the character got revealed?



Honestly, if we don't get a Pokemon song before the next Direct/reveal, we know Incineroar is 'probably' coming.



And of course, clones seem to just be exempt to this rule ala Dark Samus, so Ken's fine.

 

[StormC]

It's just sweet for me. I'd cut freaking Mario to never experience Ridleyboards or K.Rool DLC fiasco again.

As an old boomer who's been knee deep in Smash speculation since the Dojo days... there is a bit of a "what now?" feeling. Part of the reason I became more invested in Banjo is that Smash speculation becomes a lot less engaging without a horse in the race. So yeah, obviously I'm glad the dastardly duo are in the game and that we can put the arguments behind us, but there was a feeling of a community banded together for a cause, and the hope that seemed to be just within reach but also so far away at the same time.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just a rambling geezer. Maybe half of the fun of Smash is the chase. Maybe the real speculation was the friends we made along the way.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

Okay, to people who are salty about Isabelle+possibly only two more newcomers:

What happened to "Sakurai could release the game now and it'd be awesome/better than For"?

I don’t know what the overlap is in regard to people who are currently salty AND previously said they’re fine with the roster as-is but AREN’T after Isabelle, but, I’ve gathered that you tend to revel in the tears of those who backed the more hyped characters and are now feeling let down.

Once K. Rool was revealed, I genuinely believed the roster was perfect. I don’t believe Isabelle detracts from it, but I also don’t feel all that strongly either way for her.

I’ll agree that if people who were once overwhelmingly hyped choose to behave childishly, that ruins the atmosphere for everyone. But not all of us who had a more subdued reaction to Isabelle are suddenly butthurt about the roster. We’re all in this together.

 

[Thinkaman]

Geno is the weirdest exception.

On one hand, he's a one-off character from a single 22-year-old game who wasn't even on the box art, and is owned by a third party who is notoriously anal about rights. By this logic, Geno is the least likely Smash character imaginable.

Yet Sakurai tried to put him in Brawl. And tried again in Smash 4. And did finally obtain his character rights, and put him in the game as a Mii costume, alongside K. Rool and Isabelle and Daisy and Chrom.

Like it or not, none of this can be said for Issac, Banjo, or any other such old 90s character. There is something special about Geno--at least to Sakurai.

 

[HyruleHero]

the difference between Fire Emblem and Dragon Quest is that Fire Emblem is directly a Nintendo-owned IP. Dragon Quest has released on other platforms and has never been a directly-Nintendo IP since the Super Famicom days. Given how valuable each character getting in is nowadays, it doesn't make sense to try and advertise a still fletchling RPG franchise that most people have probably played on PlayStation.

I think thats a very old school thought process. Dragon Quest gets released on Nintendo with most of their games, having a DQ character in Smash would benefit Nintendo more than other companies as the person would already own the switch to play smash so they might as well get the DQ game on the switch.

With clouds inclusion there was no benefit for Nintendo so your logic a bit wrong.

I'm sorry about me arguing I'm just trying to understand the draw of Geno as a character and his odds (and trying to validate my boy Sora).

 

[Delzethin]

I'll also say this, because I've seen it happen before: We shouldn't assume the first rumor we hear must be more correct than the second. Honestly, at this point, it feels more like a Square-Enix character or other media heavy hitter would be a more likely final reveal than a Pokémon...especially if it was Geno. The fact that rumors of a SE character came later shouldn't lead to them being ignored or deemed less reliable.

This has shades of how people kept doubling down on a shaky rumor about Gen 8 coming a year early even after everything that pointed toward Gen 7 not wrapping up yet. Why? Because the rumor about Gen 8 coming early happened first.

Well... that's interesting then.


...But if I'm being honest, I'm still going to stick with my guns and believe what Vergeben has to say over Delzethin. At least until there's more confirmation that Delzethin's source, whoever they may be, are correct in their claims that Vergeben jumped the gun.

To clarify: The night Vergeben first said he'd heard Decidueye wasn't in, this person contacted me shortly afterward. They said they were pretty sure they knew which rumor Vergeben had heard, and thought it was worth telling me that the same rumor claimed Mimikyu and Lycanroc weren't in either. Sure enough, Vergeben was goaded into saying the second part soon after, meaning it was the same rumor. But this person who contacted me also said they weren't sure whether to trust the rumor--something about how the information was allegedly obtained. It was kept vague, and I never heard anything more and haven't since.

Considering Vergeben himself seems unsure of the Pokémon rumors, it seems notable. And since the rumor never mentioned particular forms of Lycanroc, I figure that even if it was correct, there's a decent chance the source could've seen something that deconfirmed the Midday or Midnight forms--NPCs, trophies, etc.--but hadn't thought to look for the Dusk form since it gets overlooked pretty often by people outside the Pokémon fandom. This is why I've kept rallying support for the character and feel like they're still worth talking about. Especially since if we don't get anyone from Gen 7 on the base roster--which is looking kinda realistic now--we might get one through DLC before Gen 8 is out, and with all that's happened in the franchise over the last couple years and how prominent Lycanroc has become and how unique they still are compared to the current roster, I figure the Dusk form would potentially be a standout pick.

If you hear anything different regarding me, it's the result of people spinning tall tales or spreading malicious rumors.

 

[StormC]

I think thats a very old school thought process. Dragon Quest gets released on Nintendo with most of their games, having a DQ character in Smash would benefit Nintendo more than other companies as the person would already own the switch to play smash so they might as well get the DQ game on the switch.

With clouds inclusion there was no benefit for Nintendo so your logic a bit wrong.

I'm sorry about me arguing I'm just trying to understand the draw of Geno as a character and his odds (and trying to validate my boy Sora).

I mean, you're right, from the outside in, Geno seems like an inane choice, but he's been requested for a long time now, even if not as much as more popular characters. It shouldn't make sense to include him, but the day he does make it, things change forever for Smash.

On the other hand, I don't actually care about Nintendo wanting to add characters to advertise XYZ. I play Smash for Smash, not to boost the bottom line of Nintendo that year. So I'd rather see merits to Dragon Quest characters being in besides "they help Nintendo make money," because I don't actually concern myself that much with whether or not a multibillion dollar company will make a bit more money or not.

For what it's worth, I think Sora would be a fine choice, but I dunno how likely it is with Disney.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

No, it isn't pushing it. Geno's popularity isn't "just Smash". That's like saying "Fight Against an Armed Boss isn't a revered song on the internet". This really is nothing more than a fabricated falsification and I don't know why people keep on saying this when Super Mario RPG has been revered as a classic to this day. You can say that exact same thing about Isaac and Golden Sun, because the only game out of that entire franchise that gets talked of is the first one, and even then it's still a vastly niche IP, alongside other franchises like Advance Wars and Sin and Punishment. And much like those franchises, who really talks about them anymore?

Ok, so first off, it's not a falsification. Whether people like the character or not isn't the issue. The issue is that Geno is a one off character who appeared in one game and one of the main reasons he's even as popular as he is is because of a quote from Sakurai on him. And to be fair with "niche" franchises, Super Mario RPG was considered an incredible disappointment for Nintendo compared to games like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Kart, and plenty more. Most of those games got close or passed the 5 million mark. That's exceptional. SMRPG was lucky to even hit 2 million. It's late release can be blamed for it but it's falling sales was a big reason it didn't release in PAL regions. Golden Sun on the other hand, surpassed 1.5 million with its first release despite any mascot pull from Mario and is still considered one of the greatest GBA games of all time. Oh but you said we only talk about the first one, except, that's not true. A lot of people see The Lost Age as superior to the first and in turn love it even more. People are even clamoring for a Felix echo if we get Isaac. The Lost Age sold 1.2 million. Again, that's really, REALLY good for a non mascot game on a handheld system, let alone a deep turn based RPG. Sure, Dark Dawn is a let down sales wise with close to half a million but here's the thing, you know what all those games have in common? Isaac. He's in every one of em. Geno doesn't have that luxury. He's only been featured in 1, and then barely cameos in another. Which is fine, he's popular, but he's not NEAR on the level of K. Rool or Ridley. Saying he IS is a falsification.

And again, Geno has been requested since the pre-Brawl days for a really long time, much like Ridley and King K. Rool. Bandana Dee only has gotten popularity and found his way after Kirby's Return to Dreamland and even then that really isn't much to go off of.

Right, I acknowledged this and counteracted it with the point that, yes, so was Isaac. I mean Isaac was popular enough to at least get an assist trophy. He might not have gotten a Mii Costume last game but he's been acknowledged during Brawl at the very least.

Dragon Quest is only starting to get some traction in the United States, but still, the only country that really hammers support for Dragon Quest is Japan. We would've already gotten a Dragon Quest character by now, if this were the case. Terra and other Final Fantasy characters would be nice, but you have to remember that they're using Final Fantasy VII to represent that franchise. Unless if there was a massive labeling change, we're never gonna get another Final Fantasy character.

Sure, Final Fantasy is a bigger franchise than Dragon Quest over here but saying that Dragon Quest is just now gaining traction is incorrect. Even back when it was known as Dragon Warrior it was doing pretty well. And the DS era of Dragon Quest was pretty lucrative over here.

The only Square Enix character that will garner massive amounts of praise is Geno, it's just common sense. Remember that tweet of them celebrating Mario RPG? People. Love. The. Game. Outside. Of. Smash.
How would it be bad from a business standpoint? If that were the case, King K. Rool would never be in the roster. Castlevania wouldn't be in the roster, given how dead and dormant the franchise is.

I don't think it's bad for business if Geno got in but saying he's the only reasonable one is really underselling characters like Lara Croft, Squall, Lightning, Noctis, etc. And just because people love the game outside of Smash doesn't mean those same people are clamoring for Geno inside of Smash. You could say that about Isaac too, but the difference is that most Golden Sun fans support Isaac in Smash with the hopes of a new Golden Sun game.

I'm not saying he's not popular, I'm not saying his game isn't a classic, I'm just saying putting him up there with Ridley and K. Rool is ignoring their popularity entirely. They are far FAR more popular than Isaac and Geno could hope to be and that's fine. They're still the next most popular characters. Where's the harm in that?