Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[-crump-]

The only thing I can see Mario getting changed about him is his down special being changed to a cap throw where he can dive for it like in Odyssey.

Tbh I wouldn’t mind Mario getting a larger rework because it gives them an excuse to keep Doc and give him Mario’s old moveset, while letting Mario do more new stuff.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

While I understand the significance of the Super Jump for Mario's Up+B, I've always been a little disappointed that a Launch Star was never incorporated from Mario Galaxy. I love Mario the way he is though, maybe a down+B change would be cool but not necessary.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Tbh I wouldn’t mind Mario getting a larger rework because it gives them an excuse to keep Dr. Mario and give him Mario’s old moveset, while letting Mario do more new stuff.

I think the cap throw is all we need for Odyssey, character-wise.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Out of pure curiosity, why are people saying that Link is right handed in this game now?

Because in the new trailer, his sheath is angled towards his right hand, suggesting he will grab it with his right hand rather than his left.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Because in the new trailer, his sheath is angled towards his right hand, suggesting he will grab it with his right hand rather than his left.

Was he right handed in BOTW?

 

[-crump-]

Was he right handed in BOTW?

Yeah, I remember it pissed people off when the game got it’s first trailer.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Was he right handed in BOTW?

He was indeed.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

While I understand the significance of the Super Jump for Mario's Up+B, I've always been a little disappointed that a Launch Star was never incorporated from Mario Galaxy. I love Mario the way he is though, maybe a down+B change would be cool but not necessary.

Play Rosalina and Luma.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Play Rosalina and Luma.

uh... Oh yeah. They have that. I really don't enjoy playing Rosaluma, unfortunately.

 

[N3ON]

When do you think development for this game started? I'm under the impression that this game started not too long after DLC development ended (since back in January he said his next job was already decided). If that's the case the amount of time spent making this game would be more or less the same amount of time spent to make the 3DS and Wii U versions.

I believe work on a more straightforward yet nevertheless enhanced port probably happened either concurrently with the DLC or immediately after. At some point in early-ish 2017 when the Switch took off, they pushed this game back and doubled down on providing additional content, thereby allowing them to market it differently than just more Smash 4 and therefore to a wider audience. Here, I'll repost my thoughts.

Originally I thought we were going to get a enhanced port, with like... two to four new characters and some amalgamated content from both versions. I didn't think there would be a massive upgrade or anything, in part because I expected the game a little sooner than we'll be getting it. Then it just kept on not showing up. And the last round of Smash amiibos launched at a super random time, which, while could be due to licensing issues as posited, I believe is more indicative of the game getting pushed back past its initial intended release.

Now I believe we'll get something tantamount to a step between MK8D and Splatoon 2. I've always maintained Smash 4 will be the base, like Splatoon 1 was clearly the base to Splatoon 2, but I do think we'll get enough new content to the point where Nintendo, if they were inclined, could brand the game as something different than another version of Smash 4. Don't get me wrong, I think the game will clearly look like a Smash 4 enhancement, it will just have enough to overly differentiate itself. Whether this is an increased amount of characters (my new guess is up to eight) and stages, a new mode, or an overhauled UI, I do think this game will turn out more like a Smash 4.5 than a Smash 4 Deluxe.

This is, of course, just my shot in the dark. But we'll see.

I don't believe we're close to a real Smash 5, regardless of how Nintendo brands this game.

(pre-reveal)

Still believe this to be the case. Still believe it to be a mid-step between port and new game. That would explain why the trailer we received revealed only a single newcomer, happened mere months prior to release, showed a multitude of vets (even if obscured in shadow), and didn't occur at E3, yet it explains why they would create new full CG trailer(s), remain cagey with the branding, possibly have new defaults for characters, and not make direct ties to the previous game (yet, at least).

So that's my theory and I'm sticking to it til E3. Assuming we hear nothing else until then.

(amendment afterwards)

That's another important point. It took them 2.5 years to make TWO games (the 3DS and Wii U versions) imagine how much they could get done making just ONE game within a similar timespan.

That's true, but I don't believe their intention was to immediately make a full sequel. Remember, it also ostensibly took them almost a year and a half to create seven characters and a handful of stages because they were working with a reduced team and budget. Who knows the scope of the team working on this.

And again I'd just like to qualify this by saying it's all simply my guess as to what's happening. Entirely possible I'm completely off the mark.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

The more I read articles and the things posted here the more fearful I get that the game might be rushed. We don’t know when development started or when it will cap. If the game is coming out this year I’m afraid the development team may miss out on a lot of Switch content.

Like, we don’t even know about Fire Emblem yet. Or Metroid. Or Pokémon. I know there is always room for DLC, but I also don’t want a rushed game because Nintendo felt the need to get Smash out earlier in the Switch lifecycle.

I’m basing this off the belief that this will be a entirely new entry, just will a skeleton of WiiU/3DS

 

[Cosmic77]

I'd actually like for Sakurai to represent Odyssey through a newcomer like Cappy/Pauline in a vein to what he did with Galaxy and Rosalina. That way, we can keep the old Mario moveset and still have Odyssey represented through someone else.

Course, that's easier said than done. Sakurai would have to get really creative to make either of those two work.

uh... Oh yeah. They have that. I really don't enjoy playing Rosaluma, unfortunately.

Hiiiiiiisssssssss...

Be gone, you monster!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Hiiiiiiisssssssss...

I mean I never said Rosalina is a bad character. In fact, I find her conceptually very interesting. I just don't enjoy playing her, even after trying to make myself enjoy her. Get your snakey attitude outta here.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The more I read articles and the things posted here the more fearful I get that the game might be rushed. We don’t know when development started or when it will cap. If the game is coming out this year I’m afraid the development team may miss out on a lot of Switch content.

Like, we don’t even know about Fire Emblem yet. Or Metroid. Or Pokémon. I know there is always room for DLC, but I also don’t want a rushed game because Nintendo felt the need to get Smash out earlier in the Switch lifecycle.

I’m basing this off the belief that this will be a entirely new entry, just will a skeleton of WiiU/3DS

No ****ing way they'd rush a Smash Bros. game. If they want a good standing with this community, they'd never rush it.

 

[DraginHikari]

I believe work on a more straightforward yet nevertheless enhanced port probably happened either concurrently with the DLC or immediately after. At some point in early-ish 2017 when the Switch took off, they pushed this game back and doubled down on providing additional content, thereby allowing them to market it differently than just more Smash 4 and therefore to a wider audience. Here, I'll repost my thoughts.


(pre-reveal)


(amendment afterwards)


That's true, but I don't believe their intention was to immediately make a full sequel. Remember, it also ostensibly took them almost a year and a half to create seven characters and a handful of stages because they were working with a reduced team and budget. Who knows the scope of the team working on this.

And again I'd just like to qualify this by saying it's all simply my guess as to what's happening. Entirely possible I'm completely off the mark.

I suppose the main issue I have with the term Port in this context as the term port usually as a very specific type of game which is usually a version of a previous game slightly updated to work on newer hardware in the similar vein of other Wii U ports such as the Mario Kart and Hyrule Warriors re-release. It seems like now the term port is being stretched out to mean something that has similarities to another slightly similar product which seems a bit unspecific for my tastes. Then again I suppose the line between port and new game has become a bit harder to follow as the industry has changed how they approach these kind of things.

 

[Bowserlick]

For single-player, I like the idea of Nintendo World's SMASHED together.

The map looks similar to Disney World/Land with various kingdoms and sections. You can traverse to the boss by picking different paths.

You can also collect coins to buy trophies and challenge a newcomer (if you have enough coins for a bout) at the center ring on main street, which is reminiscent of a fair/carnival with different games and stores.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

For single-player, I like the idea of Nintendo World's SMASHED together.

The map looks similar to Disney World/Land with various kingdoms and sections. You can traverse to the boss by picking different paths.

You can also collect coins to buy trophies and challenge a newcomer (if you have enough coins for a bout) at the center ring on main street, which is reminiscent of a fair with different games and stores.

I don't think the universes colliding idea from PS:ASBR would be a terrible idea for a story mode.

 

[Cosmic77]

I suppose the main issue I have with the term Port in this context as the term port usually as a very specific type of game which is usually a version of a previous game slightly updated to work on newer hardware in the similar vein of other Wii U ports such as the Mario Kart re-release. It seems like now the term port is being stretched out to mean something that has similarities to another slightly similar product which seems a bit unspecific for my tastes. Then again I suppose the line between port and new game has become a bit harder to follow as the industry has changed how they approach these kind of things.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe = port

Splatoon 2 = new game with mechanics ported over from the original.


So long as they add enough new content like Splatoon 2 did (new stages, modes, etc.) and put a noticeable amount of time updating the graphics and balancing the roster, then I think this game will still feel new to everyone. People might still refer to it as a port, but it won't be.

 

[N3ON]

I suppose the main issue I have with the term Port in this context as the term port usually as a very specific type of game which is usually a version of a previous game slightly updated to work on newer hardware in the similar vein of other Wii U ports such as the Mario Kart re-release. It seems like now the term port is being stretched out to mean something that has similarities to another slightly similar product which seems a bit unspecific for my tastes. Then again I suppose the line between port and new game has become a bit harder to follow as the industry has changed how they approach these kind of things.

I agree and am hesitant to use that label. I think the terminology being thrown around is a bit disingenuous. It really provides little maneuverability for a situation such as this, should it happen to pan out as a Smash 4.5-kind of deal. And again it leaves little room for speaking in more than black and white terms, which is where I believe the result lies.

When people think of ports they think of the majority of the other games shown in that Direct, while this is more in the vein of when fighting games make iterative updates on themselves, except to a greater extent, and on a new platform.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I hope is that we get a lot more costumes. There's still so much stuff they can still do with the veterans. So much it'd take time to list them all.
Especially Mario now with Odyssey, I'm gonna be disappointed if I don't see at least one of his costumes in this game.
Though all I want is Builder Mario.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

One thing I hope is that we get a lot more costumes. There's still so much stuff they can still do with the veterans. So much it'd take time to list them all.
Especially Mario now with Odyssey, I'm gonna be disappointed if I don't see at least one of his costumes in this game.
Though all I want is Builder Mario.

Builder Mario is trash. Shirtless Mario is better.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Black and white arguments aside, I think some characters will get reworks similar to Dedede and Meta Knight from Brawl to Smash 4. My predictions:

Almost a new character:
as we saw in the trailer
at least aethestically


Some movesets changes

(maybe something from Luigi's Mansion?)


(maybe???)




Maybe a balance change or a change in final smash










I don't think many Smash 4 or Brawl newcomers are going to get changes, but who knows?

 

[eltacoenojado]

Honestly, I'm worried about Breath of the wild Link replacing classic Link. Link is my favorite video game character because he's traditionally left handed (like me) and traditionally wears green (my favorite color). Which breath of the wild Link traditionally is neither of these things.

I'd be ok if they're both there though I guess.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Black and white arguments aside, I think some characters will get reworks similar to Dedede and Meta Knight from Brawl to Smash 4. My predictions:

Almost a new character:
as we saw in the trailer
at least aethestically


Some movesets changes

(maybe something from Luigi's Mansion?)


(maybe???)




Maybe a balance change or a change in final smash










I don't think many Smash 4 or Brawl newcomers are going to get changes, but who knows?

Every character is going to get a balance change but some won't be as significant as others.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Play Rosalina and Luma.

This. Rosalina pretty much got in to represent the Galaxy games. With this in mind, it does kind of make me wander if they'll try to do something similar with Pauline. Granted, I don't see Pauline "CAP-turing" characters but I could see them giving her the Odyssey hat tricks and maybe some stuff thrown in from the Mario vs DK games. I mean, hey, screwing Toad and Waluigi out of playable spots might as well be a Smash tradition at this point so they might as well keep it going...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe = port

Splatoon 2 = new game with mechanics ported over from the original.


So long as they add enough new content like Splatoon 2 did (new stages, modes, etc.) and put a noticeable amount of time updating the graphics and balancing the roster, then I think this game will still feel new to everyone. People might still refer to it as a port, but it won't be.

This is the best case scenario honestly. It feels like Smash 4 hasn't aged a day so not reusing some of those assets would feel like an absolute waste. Plus, it'll make it possible to get most if not all of Smash 4's roster back this time which would be a first. Just give me new stuff and keep the graphics and gameplay of Smash 4 and I'm ret 2 go.

 

[PeridotGX]

Honestly, I'm worried about Breath of the wild Link replacing classic Link. Link is my favorite video game character because he's traditionally left handed (like me) and traditionally wears green (my favorite color). Which breath of the wild Link traditionally is neither of these things.

I'd be ok if they're both there though I guess.

Other then a special or two, I don't see BOTW Link getting a major overhaul. And I'm 95% sure traditional Link will be an alt.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I wonder if they could/would make green tunic Link a separate costume that also perfectly mirrors his movements to make him left handed. I would imagine if they can perfectly mirror animations, hurt/hitboxes would remain the same and would not cause any issue from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[eltacoenojado]

Other then a special or two, I don't see BOTW Link getting a major overhaul. And I'm 95% sure traditional Link will be an alt.

I hope you're right!

 

[DraginHikari]

When people think of ports they think of the majority of the other games shown in that Direct, while this is more in the vein of when fighting games make iterative updates on themselves, except to a greater extent, and on a new platform.

I think this is why there is a bit of conflict on that front as Smash Brothers hasn't traditionally performed update of this format that ones like Street Fighter and other series known for. Smash 4 had downloadable version updates but that is furthest its gone. Prior to that each game and the series has been different and with different mechanics. Given the past division between the Melee and Brawl/Smash 4 communities in the past. This is kind of new territory for the series if it does end up going that route.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Funky Kong was a carbon copy clone of DK, I couldn't even find it in myself to be mad

That would be unrealistic since he stands upright and has a surfboard.

 

[Cosmic77]

Other then a special or two, I don't see BOTW Link getting a major overhaul. And I'm 95% sure traditional Link will be an alt.

Classic green cap and green tunic Link isn't going anywhere. Removing him entirely is about as likely as Mario making it into Smash without wearing any red.

 

[AadmM]

Honestly, I'm worried about Breath of the wild Link replacing classic Link. Link is my favorite video game character because he's traditionally left handed (like me) and traditionally wears green (my favorite color). Which breath of the wild Link traditionally is neither of these things.

I'd be ok if they're both there though I guess.

They could always give him...

Spoiler

his Tunic of the Wild as a costume swap!

But I do agree on both points. Link is awesome because green is awesome. And also because he's just awesome anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Builder Mario is trash. Shirtless Mario is better.

I see we're mortak enemies now...

Honestly, I'm worried about Breath of the wild Link replacing classic Link. Link is my favorite video game character because he's traditionally left handed (like me) and traditionally wears green (my favorite color). Which breath of the wild Link traditionally is neither of these things.

I'd be ok if they're both there though I guess.

As much as I love BotW Link's design, I doubt they'll remove one of the most recognisable designs in the history of gaming.
Classic Link is most definitely staying as the default costume, it wouldn't be like Sakurai to do otherwise.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Has anyone considered that maybe Link won't be right handed in-game and is only like that for cosmetic effects?

I wonder if they could/would make green tunic Link a separate costume that also perfectly mirrors his movements to make him left handed. I would imagine if they can perfectly mirror animations, hurt/hitboxes would remain the same and would not cause any issue from a gameplay standpoint.

If you ask me, I think they're gonna have normal Link and BOTW as alternate costumes. They should make SSB5 Link around normal Link instead of BOTW Link.

 

[Curious Villager]

They could always give him...

Spoiler

his Tunic of the Wild as a costume swap!

Yeah he'd most likely get that as an alt. Much like how Wario has his classic overalls as an alt.

 

[Cosmic77]

As much as I love BotW Link's design, I doubt they'll remove one of the most recognisable designs in the history of gaming.
Classic Link is most definitely staying as the default costume, it wouldn't be like Sakurai to do otherwise.

Now that's something I'm not so sure about. Seems odd to market the BotW design in the trailer if Classic Link will be the default costume.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Has anyone considered that maybe Link won't be right handed in-game and is only like that for cosmetic effects?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna have normal Link and BOTW as alternate costumes. They should make SSB5 Link around normal Link instead of BOTW Link.

Had they not shown BotW Link in the trailer, I'd agree. But the fact that they showed BotW Link alongside standard Mario sort of hints that BotW will be the primary Link in this Smash .

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't think this game was rushed. Remember when we were seeing calls to developers for a Smash 6 back in early 2015 and we were all like, "What the hell; Smash 6?" and thought it was probably just going to be a port for the Switch (then NX's) launch? Smash 4 went gold mid summer of 2014 so we're almost at the four year mark of Smash 4 wrapping up the main part of its development. If they were trying to assemble a team as early as 2015 when the first of Smash 4's DLC was coming out, then the game probably has at least two years of development time under its belt. Nintendo's been really good about release dates for the past couple of years too so I'm a lot less skeptical about the supposed 2018 release date than I would have been back in the Wii era when Nintendo couldn't pee in a jug if it had a funnel a foot wide in it.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Now that's something I'm not so sure about. Seems odd to market the BotW design in the trailer if Classic Link will be the default costume.

Had they not shown BotW Link in the trailer, I'd agree. But the fact that they showed BotW Link alongside standard Mario sort of hints that BotW will be the primary Link in this Smash .

There's this little magical M word that you're forgetting about.

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