Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

So "enhanced port" then?

Technically yes, though I don't imagine it will be presented or received that way.

Watch the clip.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

My time to shine~
Well, Isabelle could easily have the plethora of Public Works Projects throughout her moveset, instantly sprouting topiarys and arches for her smash attacks. She can also employ the many tools that Villager doesn't currently use, like the pinwheel, party popper, and toy hammer for examples, and can use the various emotions from the game as actual attacks. Her main gimmick could be that she could be a trapper, using Resetti's Manhole as a ground trap and a bubble from a bubble blower as an aerial trap. She'd probably be Smash's 'accidental fighter' where's she's not exactly trying to hit you, you're just in the way.

For Tom Nook, there's a bunch of stuff he can pull from the various house customisation options, along with Tanuki Mario abilities like tail wagging and turning into a statue. For example his down tilt can have him literally pull a rug out from underneath you, and a kill move could be him throwing out a leaf that turns into a piano. His gimmick could be similar to Villagers, but in that he turns projectiles into leaves that he can hold, either z dropping them to leave them as a leaf or throwing them to turn them back into a projectile in the direction it was thrown.

They might not see the Champions as just simple one-off characters either, as they're the representatives of Zelda races that have been in the games for years now. The Zora specifically have been in the games since the first one, where they attack link from the water.

Personally I'm hopeful for the stylist from Style Savvy, but Labo's one I'd also really like to see. The cute little sheep thing from Labo House could be a representative for the game, where he builds things out of cardboard for a wide variety of abilities. There's also Nikki that can represent the 3DS as a whole, taking inspiration from eShop, Badge Arcade, and of course Swapnote/Swapdoodle to become Smash's first actual summoner, where she brings out a 3DS a draws something that comes to life.

I think Nikki would be an awful choice. Swapnote was killed and I don't think she'd be the best choice to rep the 3DS.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I don't see how Falcondorf makes Ganon "faithful" to his canon self. Sure, Ganon can wreck **** up if he wants and all but he's a guy that gets things done with his dark magic and swordplay.

IIRC the only time Ganon actually fought physically with his hands was in OoT when he punched the ground to make the floor drop.

TP Ganon uses his ftilt in the boss fight and something similar to flame choke when he's killing the sage. It's kind of strange, because he escapes captivity with brute force but feels the need to use mainly the sword when he fights with Link. Obviously, a large part was just wanting to end the game with the swordfight, and the disdain that he regarded his own means of self-defense with was a more interesting characterization than you usually get in that situation, but it's still odd that he has success without weapons but never tries in the final battle.
My point wasn't that falcondorf is meaningfully superior, but there's much less of a case for that version of Ganon needing to be a swordsman or a mage than other versions, but people are just set on Sakurai being a stupid idiot when it's not that bad.

 

[BluePikmin11]

By middle ground do you mean not being "retro enough"? Because it's true Andy debuted in a game in 2001 though he himself would represent a franchise dating all the way back to 1988, going back even before Fire Emblem.

And yes Wars is pretty much the reason why FE even exists today and why it even broke out of Japan in the first place. Sakurai could make note of that if he were to ever include Andy or anyone from Wars in the game.

The only thing that puts Taka ahead is that he's more popular among the Japanese fanbase which more times than not will make or break a characters chances. Otherwise Andy hails from a franchise more significant and noteworthy than any retro Nintendo's ever had. Before Wars went dark after Days of Ruin, it appeared on every Nintendo console/handheld sans the N64 (which almost got a game on that platform mind you).
.

It is not that he is retro enough, it is just that I feel the importance and role an Advance Wars characters is less significant and notable than Takamaru's connection with LoZ, KI, and Metroid. Hence why I think Balloon Fighter, Takamaru, and a Hanafuda character would gain more priority over AW. Thus, not giving him room to be the 1st or 2nd retro rep. I think only two retro newcomers are going to be selected.

 

[Pyra]

Ah. A new smash game gets revealed, a new season of speculation, and a new reason for me to come back and post things. Hello, everyone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I completely agree with Max here.

People are always so quick to think of everything as black or white. It either must be a port or must be completely new. I maintain the truth of matter resides somewhere in the middle, and I'm glad at least some other people, with louder voices than myself, share the sentiment.

Hey N3ON! Great to see you’re still hanging around here. Hope all is well.

I’m kinda with that mentality, but I do get the feeling it might be completely new. It seems like the timing is setting it up to be Smash 4.5 or 5.5 too...but the trailer makes it seem like it’s new. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

That all said, I ultimately don’t care what it is as long as the roster stays mostly intact, as I said before.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think these Nintendo franchises could get characters in Smash Switch.

Arms (Spring Man)
Dillon's Rolling Western (Dillon)
Nintendo Labo (Toy-Con Robot)
Pushmo (Mallo)
Rhythm Heaven (Chorus Kids)
Splatoon (Inklings)
StreetPass Mii Plaza (Wandering Heroes)
The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Takamaru)

 

[Ura]

It is not that he is retro enough, it is just that I feel the importance and role an Advance Wars characters is less significant and notable than Takamaru's connection with LoZ, KI, and Metroid. Hence why I think Balloon Fighter, Takamaru, and a Hanafuda character would gain more priority over AW. Thus, not giving him room to be the 1st or 2nd retro rep.

He's connected to those series? I didn't know that. But that's besides the point I was making. AW has a larger legacy and a much bigger following than any of those retro's. There was even a time AW and FE were neck and neck with each other and when AW was doing slightly better than FE in the West. If IS isn't going to make a new game, then having a retro character for that series would be a good way for them to make up for the series absence all these years. Not only that but this year is the 30th anniversary of Nintendo Wars. It would be a very nice gesture for Sakurai/Intelligent Systems to finally put a character in the series in the game after missing out time after time before; especially when AW should have had a character in Brawl.

TP Ganon uses his ftilt in the boss fight and something similar to flame choke when he's killing the sage. It's kind of strange, because he escapes captivity with brute force but feels the need to use mainly the sword when he fights with Link. Obviously, a large part was just wanting to end the game with the swordfight, and the disdain that he regarded his own means of self-defense with was a more interesting characterization than you usually get in that situation, but it's still odd that he has success without weapons but never tries in the final battle.
My point wasn't that falcondorf is meaningfully superior, but there's much less of a case for that version of Ganon needing to be a swordsman or a mage than other versions, but people are just set on Sakurai being a stupid idiot when it's not that bad.

I mean Ganon had it bad with his inclusion in Melee from the get go. Not that his playstyle was bad of course because I love playing as him in Melee. It's just that his inclusion in that game solidified his status in Smash as a Falcon clone and once that happened there was no escape for him. In that regard I wish Black Shadow was in Melee and Ganon was a Brawl newcomer.

It's still not too late to make the change though I don't see it happening.

 

[Hokori]

I completely agree with Max here.

People are always so quick to think of everything as black or white. It either must be a port or must be completely new. I maintain the truth of matter resides somewhere in the middle, and I'm glad at least some other people, with louder voices than myself, share the sentiment.

I reached this conclusion due to my mixed feelings surrounding the port vs new game hoopla. Just waiting to hear more official news at this point.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I think these Nintendo franchises could get characters in Smash Switch.

Arms (Spring Man)
Dillon's Rolling Western (Dillon)
Nintendo Labo (Toy-Con Robot)
Pushmo (Mallo)
Rhythm Heaven (Chorus Kids)
Splatoon (Inklings)
StreetPass Mii Plaza (Wandering Heroes)
The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Takamaru)

What makes you think Inklings will get a spot?

 

[BluePikmin11]

He's connected to those series? I didn't know that. But that's besides the point I was making. AW has a larger legacy and a much bigger following than any of those retro's. There was even a time AW and FE were neck and neck with each other and when AW was doing slightly better than FE in the West. If IS isn't going to make a new game, then having a retro character for that series would be a good way for them to make up for the series absence all these years. Not only that but this year is the 30th anniversary of Nintendo Wars. It would be a very nice gesture for Sakurai/Intelligent Systems to finally put a character in the series in the game after missing out time after time before; especially when AW should have had a character in Brawl.

I guess that is true. Since Sakurai does love Fire Emblem, that might be something he might pick over Takamaru. Then again, I heard there was a decline of AW after Days of Ruin, so that could be something that prevents Andy's inclusion.

 

[Hokori]

I want blue pig Ganon because I'm crazy and I like super heavies.



Between the two it'd most likely be Celica since she's much more popular than Alm, unless it was both of them somehow. Intelligent Systems is probably gonna keep riding that now that they know she is really popular.
I couldn't complain since I love Celica~

Ohai, shroobz. I agree with everything said here. Well, "agree" wouldn't exactly be the word for pig Ganon bit. Just know that he'd be on top of my "newcomer" list, if I had one.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I completely agree with Max here.

People are always so quick to think of everything as black or white. It either must be a port or must be completely new. I maintain the truth of matter resides somewhere in the middle, and I'm glad at least some other people, with louder voices than myself, share the sentiment.

I just don't know if Sakurai would want to do this.

Sakurai seems like someone who would want nothing less than a new experience. But I'll admit I could totally be wrong.

 

[N3ON]

Hey N3ON! Great to see you’re still hanging around here. Hope all is well.

I’m kinda with that mentality, but I do get the feeling it might be completely new. It seems like the timing is setting it up to be Smash 4.5 or 5.5 too...but the trailer makes it seem like it’s new. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

That all said, I ultimately don’t care what it is as long as the roster stays mostly intact, as I said before.

Hi Old Man Jones! Welcome back! ^_^
I'm doing well (even better since Thursday) thanks, hope things are good for you too.

And yeah, it may be a completely new game; I mean we're working with so little, we really can't say almost anything definitively yet, but I feel a lot of people are making leaps in logic over tenuous or misinterpreted evidence.
Personally I believe looking at the whole picture presents something more in line with a mid-step sequel, but ofc, we'll just have to wait. I don't want to get too carried away in debating something left so purposely vague, which itself will almost assuredly get conclusively resolved in only a few months' time.

I reached this conclusion due to my mixed feelings surrounding the port vs new game hoopla. Just waiting to hear more official news at this point.

You're right, we should wait to hear or see more, even I'm getting ahead of myself. It's just a bit disconcerting to see people discount the grey area, as usual.

I just don't know if Sakurai would want to do this.

Sakurai seems like someone who would want nothing less than a new experience. But I'll admit I could totally be wrong.

Fwiw I agree, but Nintendo often has other plans. Just as they did with DLC, which also wasn't congruent with Sakurai's vision for creating a game.

 

[Ura]

I guess that is true. Since Sakurai does love Fire Emblem, that might be something he might pick over Takamaru. Then again, I heard there was a decline of AW after Days of Ruin, so that could be something that prevents Andy's inclusion.

I mean the lack of AW post DoR is the worst kept secret ever lol. Everyone knows about that. DoR came at a time both Advance Wars and Fire Emblem where in the ****ter. It's really not fair to blame DoR for not making any new AW games. And besides, if the series were to get a retro character the status of his series is irrelevant.

Yeah i'd like to think so lol. Maybe Sakurai likes AW as much as he does FE. That would be cool. I hope what I said in my previous post comes true.

What makes you think Inklings will get a spot?

Yeah there's no way dem' Anklangs are getting in.

 

[Lozjam]

TP Ganon uses his ftilt in the boss fight and something similar to flame choke when he's killing the sage. It's kind of strange, because he escapes captivity with brute force but feels the need to use mainly the sword when he fights with Link. Obviously, a large part was just wanting to end the game with the swordfight, and the disdain that he regarded his own means of self-defense with was a more interesting characterization than you usually get in that situation, but it's still odd that he has success without weapons but never tries in the final battle.
My point wasn't that falcondorf is meaningfully superior, but there's much less of a case for that version of Ganon needing to be a swordsman or a mage than other versions, but people are just set on Sakurai being a stupid idiot when it's not that bad.

That’s an outdated characterization of the character though. Over a decade old with that version of Ganondorf only ever appearing once.... when there are dozens of incarnations of Ganondorf all doing different things. Using Trident, Magic, ect. Every other Ganondorf appearance does not use that at all, and the reasons you have for Falcondorf are sketchy at best Even if you do look at Twilight Princess. But still, that incarnation of Ganondorf is vastly outdated. The point of Smash characters is to have references to the characters in their entirety, not just a single game. That’s why Mario uses his Mario World cape and FLUDD, and Zelda has a Phantom move. In this reasoning, Ganondorf is a complete failure as it does not use any of his other source material.

Not only that. But his character is super bad in Smash. He needs to be reworked so he isn’t one of the lowest tiered characters yet again.

Also, in Twilight Princess, Ganondorf does try not using his weapons. That’s what the whole Beast Ganon/Puppet Zelda phases of the fight were.

 

[Ura]

Not only that. But his character is super bad in Smash. He needs to be reworked so he isn’t one of the lowest tiered characters yet again.

It's the Ganon curse dude.

He's low tier in like all of the Smash games and was at the bottom of the barrel in Brawl & Sm4sH. Not to mention he dropped so many tiers in Melee. The King of Evil doesn't get the respect he deserves.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Anyone else thinking Alm and / or Celica are gonna be far more likely now because there isn't a Fire Emblem Switch announced yet? I do.

I wouldn’t mind that. I’d prefer Celica over Alm. However, we know Sakurai can get insight to games before they release. Fire Emblem Switch has probably been in development a long time.

Also, there’s always a chance for DLC.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Hi Old Man Jones! Welcome back! ^_^
I'm doing well (even better since Thursday) thanks, hope things are good for you too.

And yeah, it may be a completely new game; I mean we're working with so little, we really can't say almost anything definitively yet, but I feel a lot of people are making leaps in logic over tenuous or misinterpreted evidence.
Personally I believe looking at the whole picture presents something more in line with a mid-step sequel, but ofc, we'll just have to wait. I don't want to get too carried away in debating something left so purposely vague, which itself will almost assuredly get conclusively resolved in only a few months' time.


You're right, we should wait to hear or see more, even I'm getting ahead of myself. It's just a bit disconcerting to see people discount the grey area, as usual.


Fwiw I agree, but Nintendo often has other plans. Just as they did with DLC, which also wasn't congruent with Sakurai's vision for creating a game.

So do you think Nintendo doesn't want to give Sakurai the money needed to make an all new Smash game? If not I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't let him do it.

 

[shrooby]

Ohai, shroobz. I agree with everything said here. Well, "agree" wouldn't exactly be the word for pig Ganon bit. Just know that he'd be on top of my "newcomer" list, if I had one.

Heyo friend! Good to see you around!
He's pretty easily my most wanted Zelda character, at the very least.
Like if they're still not going to de-clone Ganondorf, then I think getting another "version" of Ganon is a decent enough compromise.
And the blue big is iconic in his own right. And trident moveset!

 

[Hokori]

You're right, we should wait to hear or see more, even I'm getting ahead of myself. It's just a bit disconcerting to see people discount the grey area, as usual.

It is. At this point in the speculation phase, people seem to be on the fence just picking a side until more info comes out that will influence their opinions on the matter. There's nothing for me to go on without feeling like I'm pulling straws, so all I can really see is the grey area.
Also, nice to still see you around these parts, N3ON. Seems like I came back at a good time to see a bunch of familiar members. That wasn't the case when I was snooping around before

That’s an outdated characterization of the character though. Over a decade old with that version of Ganondorf only ever appearing once.... when there are dozens of incarnations of Ganondorf all doing different things. Using Trident, Magic, ect. Every other Ganondorf appearance does not use that at all, and the reasons you have for Falcondorf are sketchy at best Even if you do look at Twilight Princess. But still, that incarnation of Ganondorf is vastly outdated. The point of Smash characters is to have references to the characters in their entirety, not just a single game. That’s why Mario uses his Mario World cape and FLUDD, and Zelda has a Phantom move. In this reasoning, Ganondorf is a complete failure as it does not use any of his other source material.

Not only that. But his character is super bad in Smash. He needs to be reworked so he isn’t one of the lowest tiered characters yet again.

Also, in Twilight Princess, Ganondorf does try not using his weapons. That’s what the whole Beast Ganon/Puppet Zelda phases of the fight were.

I thought Smash 4 would finally be the time where Ganondorf would get a little more love, but it didn't happen. As much as I love Ganondorf, I do have to agree that he's easily the biggest letdown in Smash, imo. If he continues to be terribad and lack the tools that his character (referring to LoZ) deserves, then I might actually lose my mind.

 

[N3ON]

So do you think Nintendo doesn't want to give Sakurai the money needed to make an all new Smash game? If not I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't let him do it.

No I just think they wanted a Smash game out for Switch sooner than later, so they opted to do an enhanced port, and as time went on and the Switch proved a success, they felt comfortable pushing the game further back and allowing for additional content to the point it could stand separate from and they could and would market it differently from Smash 4.

I think they completely and implicitly trust Sakurai, but they're a business first and foremost, and wanted to provide their new primary product an assured future.

That is my guess.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't wait to get Kiran and he'll fight by shooting FE characters out of a gun.
But you only have about a 3% chance of the projectile being good. The other 97% of the time you regret choosing to play as Kiran.

Real talk, I had forgotten Kiran but now I think they'd be a perfect fit actually.
They could quickly summon FEH characters for each of his attacks. Like, say, summoning Caeda to catch a ride for their Up-B, or summoning Nino to use Gronnblade in their Side-B, etc etc.
For bonus points, Kiran stays in Chibi form and so do all summoned Heroes.

Their Final Smash would be "The Guardians of the Green Gate", which summons an army of Bartres that rush the stage.

I don't see how Falcondorf makes Ganon "faithful" to his canon self. Sure, Ganon can wreck **** up if he wants and all but he's a guy that gets things done with his dark magic and swordplay.

IIRC the only time Ganon actually fought physically with his hands was in OoT when he punched the ground to make the floor drop.

See, the thing is, we only ever see Ganondorf in human form twice in Zelda canon, one time he floats around and plays tennis and the other he gets scared by a fishing rod.
There isn't much to take from except the one constant being his extreme strenght because of the Triforce of Power.
Ganondorf may have moves that are basically taken from Falcon but they still feel like Ganondorf because of the weight and power behind them.

The only thing that I'd change on him, if anything, would be giving his custom Neutral B because it's much more usable than Warlock Punch.


Also, I still say Beast Ganon is the best choice for a Zelda newcomer, it's the most common form of Ganon and there's a lot they can do with it. It could also lessen the complaints that Ganondorf isn't "faithful enough"

People are always so quick to think of everything as black or white. It either must be a port or must be completely new. I maintain the truth of matter resides somewhere in the middle, and I'm glad at least some other people, with louder voices than myself, share the sentiment.

I can't watch the video right now but... How does that work? A port is a port, regardless of how much new content it adds. A new game is a new game, no matter how many old assets it reuses.
It's the same situation Smash for 3DS and Wii U are, they're just ports of each other, different trophies and modes don't really matter when it's essentially the same game.

 

[Retroend]

You know what, all veterans need reworks. 4 generations of smash and not much has changed between them so they all need reworks. Make them interesting. Sakurai could use custom moves as a starting point.

 

[Hokori]

Heyo friend! Good to see you around!
He's pretty easily my most wanted Zelda character, at the very least.
Like if they're still not going to de-clone Ganondorf, then I think getting another "version" of Ganon is a decent enough compromise.
And the blue big is iconic in his own right. And trident moveset!

The feeling is mutual, old friend.

I guess that's what baffles me the most...there's so much they can do with Ganon/Ganondorf, but it's like they're blatantly refusing to explore those options and leave him in Cloneville. My heart.

 

[Deleted member]

You know what, all veterans need reworks. 4 generations of smash and not much has changed between them so they all need reworks. Make them interesting. Sakurai could use custom moves as a starting point.

I am personally not a fan of re-works for all of the veterans. I like how the veterans themselves play and I am honestly too use to it. Plus the competitive and casual community would hate the idea of changing the move-set all together. I am okay with some veterans like Link getting move-set changes, but not all veterans. I hope Link in Smash in Switch is agile like in his actual games. Not Sheik-agile, but above-average speed and mobility. I am excited to see what move-set they will give BOTW Link!

 

[shrooby]

Real talk, I had forgotten Kiran but now I think they'd be a perfect fit actually.
They could quickly summon FEH characters for each of his attacks. Like, say, summoning Caeda to catch a ride for their Up-B, or summoning Nino to use Gronnblade in their Side-B, etc etc.
For bonus points, Kiran stays in Chibi form and so do all summoned Heroes.

Their Final Smash would be "The Guardians of the Green Gate", which summons an army of Bartres that rush the stage.

Stop you're making me actually want this unironically.

 

[Deleted member]

You know what, all veterans need reworks. 4 generations of smash and not much has changed between them so they all need reworks. Make them interesting. Sakurai could use custom moves as a starting point.

Do you want to alienate your audience? Because that's how you alienate your audience.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ganondorf's B changed to Dead Man's Volley.
Similar animation to Warlock Punch, except quicker and he throws a sphere of energy.

His projectile absorbs energy attacks and becomes bigger. Also, physical attacks can reflect the ball. Each time the ball is reflected, its power grows, but also the damage required to reflect it again grows.

Forward Smash is a weaker, yet chargeable Warlock Punch.
Direction can be changed before the animation finishes.

 

[Deleted member]

Stop you're making me actually want this unironically.

Search your feelings, you know you want this to be true!

No, but for real, I'm gonna make a moveset for Kiran now. And maybe one day make a thread.

 

[N3ON]

I can't watch the video right now but... How does that work? A port is a port, regardless of how much new content it adds. A new game is a new game, no matter how many old assets it reuses.
It's the same situation Smash for 3DS and Wii U are, they're just ports of each other, different trophies and modes don't really matter when it's essentially the same game.

Well it would use Smash 4 as a groundwork to expand upon, so while technically it would have the frame of a port, for all intents and purposes it would be a mid-step. Smash 4.5. Or like UMvC3, but even more so, like Max raised.

If you wanted to distill it down to a buzzword: port vs new game, I guess it would be a port. But that's the kind of mentality I'd distance myself from, as it's devoid of any potential nuance.

It is. At this point in the speculation phase, people seem to be on the fence just picking a side until more info comes out that will influence their opinions on the matter. There's nothing for me to go on without feeling like I'm pulling straws, so all I can really see is the grey area.
Also, nice to still see you around these parts, N3ON. Seems like I came back at a good time to see a bunch of familiar members. That wasn't the case when I was snooping around before

You too and yeah it's nice to see all the old faces again.

And honestly being on the fence is probably a better call than decisively striding into the camp of either side, given how little we know and given how soon we'll likely find out. Even now I've become bogged down in defending a mentality which is at best only speculative.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

No I just think they wanted a Smash game out for Switch sooner than later, so they opted to do an enhanced port, and as time went on and the Switch proved a success, they felt comfortable pushing the game further back and allowing for additional content to the point it could stand separate from and they could and would market it differently from Smash 4.

I think they completely and implicitly trust Sakurai, but they're a business first and foremost, and wanted to provide their new primary product an assured future.

That is my guess.

When do you think development for this game started? I'm under the impression that this game started not too long after DLC development ended (since back in January he said his next job was already decided). If that's the case the amount of time spent making this game would be more or less the same amount of time spent to make the 3DS and Wii U versions.

That's another important point. It took them 2.5 years to make TWO games (the 3DS and Wii U versions) imagine how much they could get done making just ONE game within a similar timespan.

 

[Chron]

Ganondorf's B changed to Dead Man's Volley.
Similar animation to Warlock Punch, except quicker and he throws a sphere of energy.

His projectile absorbs energy attacks and becomes bigger. Also, physical attacks can reflect the ball. Each time the ball is reflected, its power grows, but also the damage required to reflect it again grows.

Forward Smash is a weaker, yet chargeable Warlock Punch.
Direction can be changed before the animation finishes.

I like his Neutral-B from Project M. One of my favorite moves ever.
(Hop off edge, hover w/N-B, wait for recovery, DAIR)

 

[-crump-]

I'd much rather this be a new game, but if it *is* a port/some kind of hybrid between port and new game, I hope they at least make new menus, music, and change/update the graphics. I don't want to feel like I'm playing Smash 4, else I'd just go play Smash 4.

This uncertainty sucks, but I can't help but enjoy coming back to the fourms regularly again. It's a nice break from reddit/twitter/etc, and back to my first experiences with social media

 

[Retroend]

I am personally not a fan of re-works for all of the veterans. I like how the veterans themselves play and I am honestly too use to it. Plus the competitive and casual community would hate the idea of changing the move-set all together. I am okay with some veterans like Link getting move-set changes, but not all veterans. I hope Link in Smash in Switch is agile like in his actual games. Not Sheik-agile, but above-average speed and mobility. I am excited to see what move-set they will give BOTW Link!

I personally want Kirby to get a rework. He just isn't good in his current form. He has tons of potential.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Not everyone needs a rework because it's been 4 generations of games. That argument is terrible.

 

[Deleted member]

Not everyone needs a rework because it's been 4 generations of games. That argument is terrible.

The argument that they meed revamps because they're "bad" is even worse imo.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The argument that they meed revamps because they're "bad" is even worse imo.

The only thing I can see Mario getting changed about him is his down special being changed to a cap throw where he can dive for it like in Odyssey.

 

[Bowserlick]

I like his Neutral-B from Project M. One of my favorite moves ever.
(Hop off edge, hover w/N-B, wait for recovery, DAIR)

I have advocated for a hovering style Up B.

Looks cool.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Out of pure curiosity, why are people saying that Link is right handed in this game now?