Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

Thing is I just got a feeling someone will be killed in the next reveal and that's Little Mac considering his fighting status and also why I think Ken would be revealed alongside Incineroar.

I think you're letting the idea of death get to your head too much. Seriously though, I feel like we can only think of deaths.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think you're letting the idea of death get to your head too much. Seriously though, I feel like we can only think of deaths.

Call this a tinfoil hat theory but the idea of it comes from the fact those three are all about fighting. It really fits honestly.

Little Mac is a boxer, Incineroar is a wrestler, Ken well...a street fighter.

Believe me though I could definitely be wrong. Not saying I'm 100% right which is why these are called predictions.

 

[SonicMario]

Before they even think about adding Tail or Shadow they should fix two things

1)Sonic's moveset

Sonic's moveset is fine. Harkens back mainly to Classic Sonic games and many of the normal A moves are from Sonic the Fighters. And the two spin dashes are meant to mix-up or confuse the opponent. Savvy players will know which is which, but that's what the two spindashes are for.

By now I think much of what we got in Brawl was for the most part Sakurai's plans anyway. There's no way he just "forgot" he had a much more unique and varietied moveset just because Sega said no to him in Brawl at first and then changed their mind resulting in Sonic being stuck with the one he has now. If there was something more Sakurai wanted to add, he probably would of done it by now in either Smash 4 or Ultimate where he's had two chances to include the Sonic he would of hypothetically made had Sonic been in Brawl from the start. But again, I don't think Brawl Project Plan Sonic and final game Brawl Sonic would of been that drastically different.

 

[Heracr055]

It hasn’t aged well, but it was convincing enough back in the day. Obviously when I look back at those old ones now it’s more about the principle. Besides, what about the Legends “trilogy”?

Just say you like boobs. Then we can all move onto the next thing instead of having a back and forth about "other reasons" and nobody will mention it again.

Edit: To make a Smash related post...my best friend thinks Rex & Pyra are a lock. I will be very surprised if they do, but if they make it in then I won't question why. XB2 did very well for itself in terms of gameplay and other reasons.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Loz183 deleted his Twitter. So he really was a lier.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Which is not the point I was arguing. I am a Tails fan. Have been for years. I understand he is not obscure. The point I am making is that an Assist Trophy missing can be seen as a bigger deal then a Mii Costume.
I don't think it'd look weird at all, seeing as Tails could just remain in the background of Green Hill Zone.


If you disagree point out to me which game has a neat and round number of characters.

N64 had 12. Nice rectangle
Melee had 25 i think. Still. Looked square outside the corners.
Brawl had 39 plus random. Square.
Smash4 had a design for the finished css and was perfectly rectangular if a wild corrin did not appear.

Not so much an argument of number over style. It will be symmetrical. And 2 more fits it since i think stacking will be the default look. With echos expanded, it will look bad.

 

[ZephyrZ]

He easily* could be a unique fighter, (give him a gun?) but he can do all the things sonic does, and because of Ultimate's production schedule with putting the most effort into bringing back other characters, and Echo is more feasible
*you might have a little trouble, but it wouldn't be too hard

You know how the other day I argued that Isabelle is more of a gaming icon then Dark Samus? Well I firmly believe Tails is even more of an icon then Isabelle.

Shadow can be an echo, but I say go all or nothing with Tails.

 

[Momotsuki]

Loz18 proved himself to be a coward honestly. If he really was trolling the masses, you would have thought his reaction would be along the lines of "Hell yeah, I lied to you all! It was a great laugh."

 

[Luigi The President]

N64 had 12. Nice rectangle
Melee had 25 i think. Still. Looked square outside the corners.
Brawl had 39 plus random. Square.
Smash4 had a design for the finished css and was perfectly rectangular if a wild corrin did not appear.

Not so much an argument of number over style. It will be symmetrical. And 2 more fits it since i think stacking will be the default look. With echos expanded, it will look bad.

I was debating numbers and not style is the thing.
The wild Corrin DID appear, which kinda kills this argument in some ways. It shows Sakurai isn't THAT picky about the style if he's willing to just throw in Corrin.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Thing is I just got a feeling someone will be killed in the next reveal and that's Little Mac considering his fighting status and also why I think Ken would be revealed alongside Incineroar.

I see Ken being revealed alongside Terry or Heihachi more likely and appropriate.

 

[Potato_]

He easily* could be a unique fighter, (give him a gun?)

This is my one fear for Shadow in this game. Please don't give him a gun of any kind.

The guy has a ton of powers through Chaos emeralds, there's more than enough potential there. SEGA already decided to saddle him with a gun and he became the laughingstock of the franchise partly because of it. I don't want to be reminded of that again.

 

[Majora's Visage]

That too, yeah

They would probably announce the brand new never before seen Pokemon during then as well for LGPE and then an Incineroar reveal. God forbid if Skull Kid doesn't make it into Smash I hope I can play as Incineroar

 

[Iridium]

I'll just bring our reveal timeline for the sake of comparison:

Anything interesting to note?

 

[Meritocracy]

You know how the other day I argued that Isabelle is more of a gaming icon then Dark Samus? Well I firmly believe Tails is even more of an icon then Isabelle.

Shadow can be an echo, but I say go all or nothing with Tails.

Yeah, Tails is player two, adding shadow or knuckles before tails would be like adding Wario or Waluigi before Luigi

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah, Tails is player two, adding shadow or knuckles before tails would be like adding Wario or Waluigi before Luigi

Seeing as Sakurai didn't add Tails in Brawl nor 4 this argument doesn't hold much water.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll just bring our reveal timeline for the sake of comparison:

Anything interesting to note?

It looks like Ultimate might have the second faster roster reveals going by this.

 

[praline]

I’m actually completely fine with a semi clone Tails added to Ultimate.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'll just bring our reveal timeline for the sake of comparison:

Anything interesting to note?

Yeah … that we are definitely waiting less time for the reveals this time, lmao

 

[Meritocracy]

Seeing as Sakurai didn't add Tails in Brawl nor 4 this argument doesn't hold much water.

I think you might have misunderstood, my argument had nothing to do with Tails being added, it brought up why he should be added over other sonic characters

 

[ZephyrZ]

The point I was making is that I think - and I know this is a really dirty word - that he deserves to be more then just an echo fighter if he gets in at all. Not because of what he can do, but because of who he is and what he means to gamer and mainstream culture alike. He might not be everyone's favorite Sonic character but that Fox is a legend.

And this is as someone who has never played a Sonic game.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think you might have misunderstood, my argument had nothing to do with Tails being added, it brought up why he should be added over other sonic characters

See, I don't really agree with that either because Knuckles is much more than a Wario for Sonic. And Shadow has FAR surpassed a Waluigi in Sonic. It's not a bad metaphor per say but it's not entirely accurate.

 

[Deleted member]

Loz18 proved himself to be a coward honestly. If he really was trolling the masses, you would have thought his reaction would be along the lines of "Hell yeah, I lied to you all! It was a great laugh."

I don't blame him for leaving. The Smash fanbase has a lot of toxic people in it that would've straight up harassed him for being wrong and hurl some pretty ugly things at him like people did with Smashified and Gematsu.

 

[Nazyrus]

Loz183 deleted his Twitter. So he really was a lier.

Loz18 proved himself to be a coward honestly. If he really was trolling the masses, you would have thought his reaction would be along the lines of "Hell yeah, I lied to you all! It was a great laugh."

He also left the discord I'm on… smh. Oh well, so much for that guy haha.

Edit: also, he asked for it himself, regardless of how the community is. Saying "keep your expectations low" but constantly teasing the hell out of skull kid unnecessarily by making a twitter account and a smahboards account JUST TO DO THAT… when he was only lucky to know stuff back in E3 and then nothing solid ever since… yeah… he pretty much asked for this to happen, like what the hell did he expect? lol. He even joined my discord group (i'm not the owner) saying " i just want to talk about the game normally, no leaks" and he just kept teasing regardless. He ASKED for it. and yes he is a coward.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't blame him for leaving. The Smash fanbase has a lot of toxic people in it that would've straight up harassed him for being wrong and hurl some pretty ugly things at him like people did with Smashified and Gematsu.

You're acting like Loz is not the toxic one

 

[Meritocracy]

See, I don't really agree with that either because Knuckles is much more than a Wario for Sonic. And Shadow has FAR surpassed a Waluigi in Sonic. It's not a bad metaphor per say but it's not entirely accurate.

Yeah your right, maybe Yoshi or DK, thought DK might be a little too much.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Just say you like boobs. Then we can all move onto the next thing instead of having a back and forth about "other reasons" and nobody will mention it again.

Edit: To make a Smash related post...my best friend thinks Rex & Pyra are a lock. I will be very surprised if they do, but if they make it in then I won't question why. XB2 did very well for itself in terms of gameplay and other things.

I do. I won’t deny it. But my issues with Ultimate Zamus and Reboot Lara run a lot deeper than that. But nobody else believes me, so you probably won’t either. Consider it dropped.

 

[Misery Brick]

Seeing as Sakurai didn't add Tails in Brawl nor 4 this argument doesn't hold much water.

Still, it wouldn't necessarily match if we received someone like Shadow before Tails.
I feel that if Sakurai would add a new character to a series, he'd definitely care about seniority over popularity. Especially if that character is more iconic than another one.
If anything, if we get a 1:1 echo of Sonic, I think it'll be Metal Sonic. After all, he predates Shadow and is literally a copy of Sonic.
I don't put too much stock into Shadow's assist missing. It could be like an Isaac situation, where they just decided not to bring it back in the next iteration. Especially if they already worked hard on the Knuckles assist and didn't want the Sonic series to get more than one AT.
I believe if Shadow's AT wasn't missing or if it wasn't even there in the first place, no one would be discussing his chances as that's literally the only thing going for him.

 

[Potato_]

It looks like Ultimate might have the second faster roster reveals going by this.

I mean, it kind of has to? They established they wanted every character out there before release, and they only showed the game a few months before it would release.

 

[Deleted member]

You're acting like Loz is not the toxic one

I wouldn't say he was toxic, especially because I don't know the person and what their motives were. Anything is speculation, and I'm not gonna judge someone I don't know.

EDIT: Plus, he didn't really do anything malicious or harmful. Even if he was messing around after E3, in hindsight, it's a video game. No harm comes from him being wrong about it.

 

[Luigi The President]

Still, it wouldn't necessarily match if we received someone like Shadow before Tails.
I feel that if Sakurai would add a new character to a series, he'd definitely care about seniority over popularity. Especially if that character is more iconic than another one.
If anything, if we get a 1:1 echo of Sonic, I think it'll be Metal Sonic. After all, he predates Shadow and is literally a copy of Sonic.
I don't put too much stock into Shadow's assist missing. It could be like an Isaac situation, where they just decided not to bring it back in the next iteration. Especially if they already worked hard on the Knuckles assist and didn't want the Sonic series to get more than one AT.
I believe if Shadow's AT wasn't missing or if it wasn't even there in the first place, no one would be discussing his chances as that's literally the only thing going for him.

And I feel it would still "match" because if this were the case we'd have gotten Medusa before Dark Pit, going by your seniority argument.

 

[vaanrose]

i think stacking will be the default look. With echos expanded, it will look bad.

Nah. They said people would have the option of stacking, not the option of unstacking. Plus from a purely logistic standpoint, you have to design the CSS to fit every character, and then you can create a second version with fewer characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, it kind of has to? They established they wanted every character out there before release, and they only showed the game a few months before it would release.

True. Well, good news for me. The sooner I can get my hands on this game, the better.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Still, it wouldn't necessarily match if we received someone like Shadow before Tails.
I feel that if Sakurai would add a new character to a series, he'd definitely care about seniority over popularity. Especially if that character is more iconic than another one.
If anything, if we get a 1:1 echo of Sonic, I think it'll be Metal Sonic. After all, he predates Shadow and is literally a copy of Sonic.
I don't put too much stock into Shadow's assist missing. It could be like an Isaac situation, where they just decided not to bring it back in the next iteration. Especially if they already worked hard on the Knuckles assist and didn't want the Sonic series to get more than one AT.
I believe if Shadow's AT wasn't missing or if it wasn't even there in the first place, no one would be discussing his chances as that's literally the only thing going for him.

In all fairness Isabelle doesn't have seniority over the also iconic K.K.Slider nor Tom Nook but still made it in due to popularity. I think Shadow is still far more likely as an echo then Metal Sonic.

And as I keep repeating, I can't see Tails being an echo at all.

 

[StormC]

-The graphics are not nearly as good as they would have looked 20 years ago, but they have a retro charm to them.

Bah! Back in my day, that faux-3D art style was downright mindblowing! Not to mention the visuals ooze style and charm in a way you won't get today. Perhaps you'd like a bald protagonist who scowls and has a surrogate daughter figure? Or maybe one of those skimpily dressed teenage girls that battle evil demons and blush when a guy so much as makes eye contact with 'em?

When they released the SNES Classic, they added save states as a feature! Can you believe it? It's so classic it has to be packaged with a feature that will let the player cheat. I don't trust any system that has an HDMI port!

 

[MSmariosonic]

Still, it wouldn't necessarily match if we received someone like Shadow before Tails.
I feel that if Sakurai would add a new character to a series, he'd definitely care about seniority over popularity. Especially if that character is more iconic than another one.
If anything, if we get a 1:1 echo of Sonic, I think it'll be Metal Sonic. After all, he predates Shadow and is literally a copy of Sonic.
I don't put too much stock into Shadow's assist missing. It could be like an Isaac situation, where they just decided not to bring it back in the next iteration. Especially if they already worked hard on the Knuckles assist and didn't want the Sonic series to get more than one AT.
I believe if Shadow's AT wasn't missing or if it wasn't even there in the first place, no one would be discussing his chances as that's literally the only thing going for him.

Shadow was no doubt the highest voted sonic character in the ballot. Adding him as an echo would please the majority of Sonic fans.

To me it sounds like a logical thing to do.

Because y'know...

they are very vocal about it

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The reboot Lara is a total pansy. Metroid fans didn’t accept Other M, so why are TR fans accepting this ******* reboot version? Same thing, all wimpy and “realistic”.

Because the games overall are great?

I think she would be a mix of both The original and the modern one... She would have her original outfit (Just More E10ed) and dual pistols, but with the design of the reboot Lara.

That doesn’t seem like a bad idea...and would probably look great

She wouldn't be the first third party I'd pick but the more character additions that went on to be in this game instead of Playstation All-Stars, the better!

Song really ****ed up with not adding Snake, Cloud, or Croft

Lara Croft is an Icon in the West and that's about it. Japan sees her as more of a fashion model then an adventurer, likely due to seeing her in ads more then playing the games.
She also had a fall from grace like Crash and Spyro and only recently is coming back into the spotlight..but not to anywhere near the degree of popularity she once had. Beyond that, reboot Lara isn't the iconic one, the 90s/00s one is.

However, I mostly meant in regards to fan demand. Fact is there are very few people that actually want Lara Croft in Super Smash Bros. Square Enix has a ton of characters with more fan demand then Lara has, and more popularity if you consider the massive popularity of Dragon Quest in Japan.

Not helping her case is that Sakurai likes to converse with the character's creator or handler, which is why no Western IPs are in as playable characters, and the team behind Lara's games are Western, even if the parent company is Japanese.

Lara may be a popular character and a past Icon, but I do not believe most people would love her inclusion over so many other wanted characters even from just SE alone.

Wait...Lara and the Tomb Raider series never fell from grace like Crash and Spyro, hell she stayed having well received games other than Angel of Darkness

And I don’t think maybe and especially were highly demanded 3rd party characters to debut in Smash

 

[praline]

Only weirdos will stack echoes.

 

[Nethermoosen]

See, I don't really agree with that either because Knuckles is much more than a Wario for Sonic. And Shadow has FAR surpassed a Waluigi in Sonic. It's not a bad metaphor per say but it's not entirely accurate.

Shadow is Sonic’s Vegeta. Naruto’s Sasuke. Morty’s Evil Morty.

 

[Meritocracy]

Just a thought, I think Shadow might get in the base roster, with Tails as DLC, simply because of the production schedule. I'll tell you right now, I'd drop a thousand dollars on tails as DLC, though not everyone would

 

[Ra-Ha-Horakhty]

Lol, get bent loz18!