Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zathura]

Different ending screens is like a staple of 2D Metroid

Oh really? I’ve always been a lot more into the prime series, I guess I just saw the screens I got and accepted they were the only ones

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So I’m gonna say that a safe bet is Isaac or Skull Kid to appear in this Direct. A moderately safe bet would be a new Pokémon rep. A not fairly likely bet would be either Banjo-Kazooie or Geno. I’m not saying they are unlikely overall but we just got our 3rd party so having another one right off the bat isn’t something I think is likely.

 

[?????????????]

So I’m gonna say that a safe bet is Isaac or Geno to appear in this Direct. A moderately safe bet would be a new Pokémon rep. A not fairly likely bet would be either Banjo-Kazooie or Geno. I’m not saying they are unlikely overall but we just got our 3rd party so having another one right off the bat isn’t something I think is likely.

Wait, Geno is safe AND not likely?

 

[PLATINUM7]

So I’m gonna say that a safe bet is Isaac or Geno to appear in this Direct. A moderately safe bet would be a new Pokémon rep. A not fairly likely bet would be either Banjo-Kazooie or Geno. I’m not saying they are unlikely overall but we just got our 3rd party so having another one right off the bat isn’t something I think is likely.

How is Geno both a safe bet and a not fairly likely bet?

 

[Metal Shop X]

Speaking of Golden Sun and Skull Kid.

I want that if they are in the same trailer, I don't care if it make sense or not, I want Isaac to throw a giant sun at Skull Kid's Moon at the end of the trailer that create a giant explosion, like Smash 4 Final Destination had in the background.

That **** would be hype as ****.

 

[Potato_]

Good morning everyone. Sounds like Florence got downgraded overnight which is good, hope you people in its path stay safe.

Actually, isn't the literal Skull Kid only present in TP otherwise for canon games?

The one from OoT is outright stated to be the same one in MM ("You remind me of that fairy boy from the forest" or something along those lines at the end of MM).

To be clear, I don't really think the "multiple games" thing really works for Skull Kid due to the fact that he changes so drastically from appearance to appearance. Most people want the MM version, and unless Sakurai pulls from both TP and MM like Hyrule Warriors did that is the one we should be looking at. Basically the fact he's in OoT and TP doesn't mean too much in his overall chances. Also Sakurai has never pulled from Zelda spinoffs but it's not like there's a rule stating he can't or whatever. I mean hell, BOTW Link fights Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in this game, canon already takes a back seat for Smash.

Also like others have said, I think Mario RPG's significance/relevance is vastly overstated by smash fans. Not trying to put Geno fans down or anything cause I think he'd be cool, just responding to the idea that Skull Kid and Geno are similar in that regard.

 

[?????????????]

Speaking of Golden Sun and Skull Kid.

I want that if they are in the same trailer, I don't care if it make sense or not, I want Isaac to throw a giant sun at Skull Kid's Moon at the end of the trailer that create a giant explosion, like Smash 4 Final Destination had in the background.

That **** would be hype as ****.

And then it ends with a third newcomer from Pokémon Sun and Moon.

 

[WaxPython]

The song problem isn't directly from square as they don't hold the rights to them (or so I've heard).

I only argue this point because I want Sora and Kingdom Hearts music.

If square don't hold the rights then who does?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Idk, I feel like the SMRPG bias really just comes from nostalgia at this point which is fine. Maybe the last few hours of the game will prove me wrong and I'll suddenly want everyone from SMRPG as well though.

SMRPG was very much about the time it came out, if you're already well versed in RPGs it might not have the same appeal, because it was always meant as an entry-level RPG to get people interested in the genre. You have to remember it came out long before Pokémon was a thing, RPGs weren't mainstream in that sense, so historically SMRPG has a lot of significance, it was what got a lot of people to play FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and the other Square classics on the SNES. It was also the first game that really allowed you to experience the Mario universe in that sense.

It's still a great game imo, but its original purpose is kind of lost these days as people are only likely to pick it up when they already have plenty of experience with the genre.

 

[Autobot N]

So here’s another pointless side quest while we wait for another 14 hours for this Direct.

Let’s say you had only one character to show support for and, because of some driving, unseen force, it can only be a character that is somehow related to your username by name/theme/franchise/alphabet/etc.

For me, Venus of the Desert Bloom. Isaac is obvious pick so I’m gonna do the opposite and choose Krookadile.

Hmm. Can't think of many good Transformers to be in smash. Maybe Minerva from Transformers Masterforce?

 

[Metal Shop X]

And then it ends with a third newcomer from Pokémon Sun and Moon.

That's perfection right there, bravo sirrrrrrr...

Wait, on a second thought, the way to make this even more hype is for a star to come down in the aftermath of the battle, and that star is obviously Geno, coming to fight the remaning survivors.

That be the Ultimate Smash Ultimate Trailer to end all Ultimate trailers, Ultimate.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I hope we get someone unexpected
In the new smash trailer

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Wait, Geno is safe AND not likely?

How is Geno both a safe bet and a not fairly likely bet?

Oops I one-handed typed that one. I meant Skull Kid.

Which brings me to the next point. I would love to see something along Hyrule Warriors and Twilight where the Skull Kid Simmons various puppets to attack.

 

[Cosmic77]

I really don't see the issue with characters being "one-off". If Cloud had never appeared in another game after FF7, would anyone say he wasn't iconic/popular enough? What about Shovel Knight or Duck Hunt? If a one-off character is a great, iconic character then their number of appearances really shouldn't matter.

Super Mario RPG is one of the best SNES games and is usually on a lot of people's top-10 RPG of all-time lists, and it generally gets 9's across the board. The game added a lot of unique characters and locales that clearly have stuck with people because of how good they were. I used to watch my brother play it when I was like 4, and Mallow, Geno, the Axum Rangers, and Smithy all stuck with me far more than some reoccurring Nintendo characters (Bowser Jr., Little Mac, the whole FE crew are far less memorable and iconic for me).

Honestly, character wants are personal choices and are like opinions. Everyone has them, what's important is to respect those of others as long as it isn't Steve or the Dragonborn.

If I'm being brutally honest, most of the characters from SMRPG were pretty forgettable, Geno included. The game itself was fantastic, and I consider it to be a wonderful RPG for its time. I just don't think any of the characters were memorable enough to be in the same league as other characters from Mario RPGs, such as Fawful or Vivian. That's why recurring appearances can be so important to people remembering a character. What a character lacks in personality can be made up through making numerous appearances in other games.

Regardless, I don't think there's any Mario RPG characters worth putting in Smash aside from Mario himself. Overall, these characters have very little significance in the Mario franchise compared to who we have on the roster as of now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Good morning everyone. Sounds like Florence got downgraded overnight which is good, hope you people in its path stay safe.



The one from OoT is outright stated to be the same one in MM ("You remind me of that fairy boy from the forest" or something along those lines at the end of MM).

To be clear, I don't really think the "multiple games" thing really works for Skull Kid due to the fact that he changes so drastically from appearance to appearance. Most people want the MM version, and unless Sakurai pulls from both TP and MM like Hyrule Warriors did that is the one we should be looking at. Basically the fact he's in OoT and TP doesn't mean too much in his overall chances. Also Sakurai has never pulled from Zelda spinoffs but it's not like there's a rule stating he can't or whatever. I mean hell, BOTW Link fights Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in this game, canon already takes a back seat for Smash.

Also like others have said, I think Mario RPG's significance/relevance is vastly overstated by smash fans. Not trying to put Geno fans down or anything cause I think he'd be cool, just responding to the idea that Skull Kid and Geno are similar in that regard.

You missed the context, I think. It was already stated about OOT being his appearance, so I was already noting his TP in with his OOT being in mind.

Anyway, yeah, that's why it shouldn't matter if he appeared in other games. The Mask did not as a key item/importance to the story. It's the most iconic part of the character, not so much the one wearing it, though that's not to say it isn't important at all. Besides, they can't even call the Wolf Link amiibo by the full name for some reason. Midna is not mentioned, despite being the popular part. It's the same thing here. People call it by a somewhat strange name despite knowing who they really want.

Super Mario RPG is a unique case; it's not that the game itself is super big as people are making it. It actually is one of the more obscure Mario games. It's that it outright is the reason Paper Mario exists(which is meant to be a sequel) and basically is the influence for both of the Mario rpg series. It's important, just in a different way. Geno's only notable thing is best the most popular character out of that game by far. He's also 3rd party, making it hard for him to appear in other Mario games as is. Popularity and demand means nothing if the IP holder doesn't want to say yes.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I didn’t even know the zero suit made an appearance in SR, I had no clue about the different ending screens until I just looked it up

Like the power suit, it’s utter perfection. Perfect compromise between the athletic badass and curvy bombshell designs. Except not even a compromise for me personally because I love that she’s both.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The characters in SMRPG might be a bit overblown (but I still found them very memorable) but I find the game and settings itself to be very important to the Mario series overall. It was really the first game to expand the universe, introducing lively towns inhabited by a variety of Mushroom Kingdom inhabitants (both Toads and species previously restricted to being just enemies). It really paved the way for how the greater Mushroom Kingdom came to appear in other games, particularly the other Mario RPGs, which we might not ever have gotten if it weren't for SMRPG.

I never really got why Geno was so popular after I played it, since Mallow was such a better character imo. Yet, Geno's popular and I find it endearing that he's stayed that way despite his low number of appearances. Just having a character like him getting in out of fan demand would be pretty cool to see.

 

[WaxPython]

Midna and wolf link would be a sick duo fighter.

I'd rather them over skull kid tbh.

 

[Nap_]

Here's a fun challenge. Give every character a home stage. It can be a stage already in the game, a missing stage or a brand new one! However, it's only 1 stage per character so no duplicates and they have to be from the character's franchise

This could be a bit long. Using battlefield and omega forms is enough for everyone.

Spoiler: list

New Donk City Hall Luigi's mansion Peach's castle (Melee) Figure-8 circuit) Mushroom Kingdom U
Mario Bros Mario Galaxy 3D Land Kongo Jungle (64) Jungle Japes Kongo falls Great plateau tower
Hyrule Castle (64) Temple Great Bay Gerudo Valley Pirate ship Brinstar Brinstar Depths Frigate Orpheon
Norfair Yoshy's island (Brawl) Green Greens Fountain of dreams Halberd Corneria Lylat cruise Venom
Prism tower Pokémon stadium 2 Prism tower (Battlefield) Unova Pokémon League Pokémon stadium Spear pillar
Kalos Pokémon league Onett New Pork City Port Town Aero Dive Summit Castle siege Castle siege (omega)
Castle siege (Battlefield) Arena ferox (Battlefield) Coliseum :ultrobinArena Ferox Coliseum (omega) Flat Zone X Skyworld
Reset bomb forest Palutena´s temple Wario Ware inc. Shadow Moses island Green Hill Zone Distant planet
Pictochat 2 Smashville Wily castle Wii Fit studio Boxing ring Tomodachi life Find mii Wuhu island
Pac-land Gaur plain Duck hunt Suzaku castle Midgar Umbra clock tower Moray towers Dracula´s castle
Dracula´s castle (Battlefield) Mario circuit (MK8) Garden of hope

 

[Over9000BPM]

Oh really? I’ve always been a lot more into the prime series, I guess I just saw the screens I got and accepted they were the only ones

It’s basically the rule that the faster you finish the 2D games, the less clothes she’ll be wearing in the ending.

 

[?????????????]

Midna and wolf link would be a sick duo fighter.

I'd rather them over skull kid tbh.

Midna and Skull Kid are my Top 2 “non-regularly occurring Zelda characters that left a lasting impression on me beyond the one game they are especially significant in.”

 

[LoboRundas]

It’s basically the rule that the faster you finish the 2D games, the less clothes she’ll be wearing in the ending.

Also in the Prime.series, but with item percentages, and the first one just removes her helmet.

 

[AzureFlame4]

If I'm being brutally honest, most of the characters from SMRPG were pretty forgettable, Geno included. The game itself was fantastic, and I consider it to be a wonderful RPG for its time. I just don't think any of the characters were memorable enough to be in the same league as other characters from Mario RPGs, such as Fawful or Vivian. That's why recurring appearances can be so important to people remembering a character. What a character lacks in personality can be made up through making numerous appearances in other games.

Regardless, I don't think there's any Mario RPG characters worth putting in Smash aside from Mario himself. Overall, these characters have very little significance in the Mario franchise compared to who we have on the roster as of now.

Honestly, to me it feels like if you didn't have Geno in your party and just went with Bowser/Peach as your team you would forget he was even there since he doesn't really do/say anything after his initial appearance. At least that I can remember and I've literally played it over the course of a week. Mallow at least kind of acts like the voice of Mario and has his backstory come into play where I'm at currently. Still time left for me to be wrong though.

 

[Danpal65]

If square don't hold the rights then who does?

I believe the composers who wrote the songs holds the rights?

 

[RileyXY1]

Midna and wolf link would be a sick duo fighter.

I'd rather them over skull kid tbh.

Midna has already been confirmed to be an AT.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Also in the Prime.series, but with item percentages, and the first one just removes her helmet.

The 2D games take it further though. That’s where things like Justin Bailey and the Sm4sh alts came from.

 

[Metal Shop X]

It’s basically the rule that the faster you finish the 2D games, the less clothes she’ll be wearing in the ending.

: " Mei Ling, Samus took her clothes off!"

 

[T-Hell]

I saw Golden Sun trending on Twitter and thought something big happened.

Turns out its just a trademark renewal smh y'all need to calm your thirst.

No. The coincidence is hype inducing whether you like it or not. Let people have their fun.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Like give me a disgaea Chracther or Goku or Something unique cause everyone keeo talking about the same 7 Chracthers due to the leaks

 

[?????????????]

Geno left an impression on me because,

A.) He was the first entity in ANY Mario game to imply a deeper lore; this entire concept of the stars being part of some kind of divine hierarchy, which continued in things like Paper Mario, Super Mario Galaxy, and more.

B.) He was easily one of the best party members battle-wise. Peach is a great healer, and with the Lazy Shell, Mario is just as good as Bowser at single kills. Geno is the AoE mage, and he’s the best at that role. My preferred team is always Mario, Geno, and Peach.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Midna and Skull Kid are my Top 2 “non-regularly occurring Zelda characters that left a lasting impression on me beyond the one game they are especially significant in.”

Speaking of characters that leave lasting impressions, I think the happy mask salesman could make a great WTF character. The twist being that he can use the transformation masks himself. In OoT he did give you the Zora and Goron masks at least.

 

[Danpal65]

No. The coincidence is hype inducing whether you like it or not. Let people have their fun.

Misplaced and excessive hype is a problem though. It has lead to pretty toxic and horrible overreactions in the past. Not saying that you'd be the one to do that, but allowing unfounded hype to build isn't a good idea.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I believe the composers who wrote the songs holds the rights?

If we can't get Uematsu's music, can we get Mystic Quest music? I know it's not the most fondly remembered FF title but damn the music is rockin.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Boy, I've been out for more than a day, and yet the thread's page count just doesn't want to slow down.

Anyway, it seems pretty odd how in regards to the Nintendo Direct, Nintendo delayed it after the Japan earthquake incident, and moved it to 9/13. And yet parts of the United States now have to contend with an incoming hurricane.

As for the Nintendo Direct itself, I'm not expecting much Smash Ultimate news to be revealed. I'll just post the following image.

Spoiler

 

[The_Naraotor]

9 hours and 24 minutes remaining !

 

[Potato_]

You missed the context, I think. It was already stated about OOT being his appearance, so I was already noting his TP in with his OOT being in mind.

Anyway, yeah, that's why it shouldn't matter if he appeared in other games. The Mask did not as a key item/importance to the story. It's the most iconic part of the character, not so much the one wearing it, though that's not to say it isn't important at all. Besides, they can't even call the Wolf Link amiibo by the full name for some reason. Midna is not mentioned, despite being the popular part. It's the same thing here. People call it by a somewhat strange name despite knowing who they really want.

Super Mario RPG is a unique case; it's not that the game itself is super big as people are making it. It actually is one of the more obscure Mario games. It's that it outright is the reason Paper Mario exists(which is meant to be a sequel) and basically is the influence for both of the Mario rpg series. It's important, just in a different way. Geno's only notable thing is best the most popular character out of that game by far. He's also 3rd party, making it hard for him to appear in other Mario games as is. Popularity and demand means nothing if the IP holder doesn't want to say yes.

That's my bad for not seeing you guys had already discussed his OoT appearance.

The Mask is easily the most important part but I do think people tend to understate the importance of the imp behind it. A lot of Skull Kid's mannerisms that became so endearing (the playful, trickster personality) are entirely his, and are only amplified by the mask. I totally agree that people tend to dance around the fact that the mask is the main reason they want him however.

I've never really thought about Mario RPG in that way, but it does make sense. I realize it's very obscure which is why I stated that its popularity was overblown by a lot of smash fans, but when you word it the way you did it does take on a new level of importance. If Sakurai sees it the same way it's no wonder why he'd want to add Geno, and judging from what we know from the man he does seem to care about the importance of a game to an entire series as a whole.

Also to shift topic, I'd say the trademark on Golden Sun being renewed is hugely important, considering Nintendo only made it public today.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Senran Kagura for smash when it has a long history with nintendo thier first game was on 3ds

 

[AzureFlame4]

I will say Geno does the most damage in my party in SMRPG so I'm thankful to him for that and he does have the coolest attacks. Looking from a non-story perspective I understand the want people have for him. Also, considering my own love of Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi games I can understand the importance of SMRPG overall. (I'd just prefer Paper Mario personally to represent that side of Mario)

 

[RileyXY1]

Pete Hines (of Bethesda) was interviewed about whether Nintendo asked him about putting a character made by them in Smash. He said "Oh yeah." Here's the source:https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/13/pete-hines-bethesda-interview-we-do-believe-in-single-player-7939215/

 

[monadoboy]

So here’s another pointless side quest while we wait for another 14 hours for this Direct.

Let’s say you had only one character to show support for and, because of some driving, unseen force, it can only be a character that is somehow related to your username by name/theme/franchise/alphabet/etc.

For me, Venus of the Desert Bloom. Isaac is obvious pick so I’m gonna do the opposite and choose Krookadile.

Cool. No change for me then.