Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Curious Villager]

I'd love to see a harmless Young Link Echo Fighter based on the Link from ALttP or ALBW, with Silver Arrows instead of Fire Arrows. Heck, even Zelda 1 and 2 Link would be nice. Essentially I want a playable Link based on the early 2D Zelda games, but I get the impression that Link having the up and down thrust from Zelda 2 is good enough for Sakurai.

I think NES Link would work surprisingly well as an echo for Toon Link, though I guess that wouldn't be too surprising since I think Toon Link was meant to be a more modern depiction of the original NES Link. And he had a palette swap based off him too.

The only problem would be that the Smash community might have a meltdown over the idea of a fourth Link, even as an echo...

 

[Flynn__]

Last night I had a dream in which the next character announced for Smash was the Style Savvy protagonist And I have to tell you, my dreams can be kinda prophetic sometimes.

 

[Airin]

So here’s another pointless side quest while we wait for another 14 hours for this Direct.

Let’s say you had only one character to show support for and, because of some driving, unseen force, it can only be a character that is somehow related to your username by name/theme/franchise/alphabet/etc.

For me, Venus of the Desert Bloom. Isaac is obvious pick so I’m gonna do the opposite and choose Krookadile.

For the Alphabet i go with this little gal here

That's my answer but the rest is interesting and cheating is great, so here i go:

As for my name... It didn't have a meaning at first but because of a game i started thinking about it because it was a discussion topic. About Lore in the game (FF14) and even though I'm not into lore, i thought it was interesting.. I can go full weeb so the meaning is Ai as in love and Rin as in cold.
I don't love cold but i LOVE ice as an element. So for Ice element i would go for:
Celcius from Tales of Symphonia/Tales of Eternia.

Theme? Hmm...
Not much to say but:
Rinoa Heartilly. From FF8.
Make of it what you will.

Franchise: I Love Zelda. I'm weak to it and always will be.
... ... ... ..... Malon/Cremia (one of my usual usernames is based on Cremia that my young stupid self always read wrong.)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Well yeah SMT's the continuation of the Megami Tensei franchise, and that's where "Shin" comes from and all that.

However, it'd be incorrect to say that Persona is a spinoff of SMT. It's its own franchise that falls under the MegaTen umbrella, but SMT is its own franchise as well, having its own spinoffs.

Continuity wise, yes, it follows chronologically after SMT: If being the first game in the "Persona timeline," but we shouldn't count the SMT timeline as a sort of way to tie games together, because the timeline doesn't reflect what is actually seen as a franchise, (unless you want to somehow argue that Catherine is an SMT game or Devil May Cry is a SMT spinoff). Even in SMT alone, the world of SMT1 isn't the same as 3 and isn't the same as 4 which probably won't be the same as 5.

Basically, if the Japanese boxart of your game has the 真 symbol on it, it's a SHIN Megami Tensei spinoff.
If not, then it's another franchise under the Megaten umbrella.

And if there's any more doubt, just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdRs8qSKQBM

That’s... just making a web for the sake of making a web. The Megami Tensei series became the Shin Megami Tensei Series. There’s no meaningful reason to separate the two without it being superficial. If Shin Megami Tensei is the continuation of Megami Tensei then why go off in all these other directions from Megami Tensei. It doesn’t make sense.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions for instance doesn’t have any sort of connection to Shin Megami Tensei in name but is 100% a crossover between Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem. There doesn’t have to be a clear cut “Shin” in the name of a game to make it a spin off of one or the other, nor does it have to have Megami Tensei at all. Whether or not it’s a spinoff comes from its origins as a game. Each spinoff, including Persona, is just that, spun off of the original creation. What I mean by that is Megami Tensei became Shin Megami Tensei. Shin Megami Tensei is the continuation of the series as a whole. The naming of a game, Majin Tensei for example, doesn’t mean it’s ONLY a part of the original but not the continuation. That doesn’t make any sense.

If Shin Megami Tensei is what Megami Tensei became then by that decree what was Megami Tensei is now Shin Megami Tensei. If Shin Megami Tensei If (that’s confusing) is a game in the series of SMT and Persona spun off of Shin Megami Tensei If then that would make Persona an SMT spin off. Naming conventions aren’t always followed and thus are dropped and added whenever to make the game have a better sounding name. Just because it has or lacks the Shin in the name doesn’t mean that it didn’t spin off of Shin Megami Tensei. Shin Megami Tensei is Megami Tensei, there’s no real reason to convolute it farther than that just because it has or lacks the Shin as said in that video.

I’m going to bring up the Musou series so, here we go. Sengokumusou is what we know over here as Samurai Warriors, which is a spinoff of Dynasty Warriors or Shin Sangokumusou, notice that Samurai Warriors lacks the Shin present in the naming of the original Dynasty Warriors franchise. Does that mean that Samurai Warriors, Sengokumusou, is a spin off and only a spinoff of the original Dynasty Warriors one on one fighting game, Sangokumusou? Absolutely not. It has absolutely no similarity with the original game. It’s a spin off of Shin without having to be a Shin game.

I’m not going to change your mind or anything I realize that, it’s all subjective anyways. However, I feel like tha fandom of Persona doesn’t like being a spin off of SMT and there’s really nothing wrong with it, especially considering the fact that Persona has far outgrown the series it has spun off of. It’s a good thing. I just don’t think there’s any reason to convolute something that is just as easy stressed as one bigger franchise.

Tl;dr Megami Tensei became Shin Megami Tensei so what one has is also the others. Spinoffs or other wise Megami Tensei is now Shin Megami Tensei and so, Megami Tensei’s spinoffs would just as well be Shin Megami Tensei’s spinoffs.

 

[osby]

So, since the direct is closing in, I'll put my predictions and hopes for the newcomers,

Predictions=Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid
Want=Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Isabelle

 

[Michele]

Goodmorning...Is there any new fake leaks? If so...then I guess we will wait.. Yawn...

So, since the direct is closing in, I'll put my predictions and hopes for the newcomers,

Predictions=Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid
Want=Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong

Am I the only person who doesn't have any prediction or hopes and is just happy with the game itself?

 

[Airin]

Am I the only person who doesn't have any prediction or hopes and is just happy with the game itself?

No you aren't
While I'm interested by the leaks and predictions and everything surrounding it, i always went into every direct completely "Blind"
I have no expectations, i'll just watch. Every newcome up to now surprised me.

Even if it'll be something I don't care about, I'll be glad for others!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Goodmorning...Is there any new fake leaks? If so...then I guess we will wait.. Yawn...



Am I the only person who doesn't have any prediction or hopes and is just happy with the game itself?

You can make predictions and hope for things while still being very happy with the game. I don't demand anything more from this game at all, it's already given me everything I desperately wanted, and so much more than that too, but it's still fun to have characters to hope for and make predictions, not sure how I'd pass the time until release otherwise.

 

[Zinith]

Goodmorning...Is there any new fake leaks? If so...then I guess we will wait.. Yawn...



Am I the only person who doesn't have any prediction or hopes and is just happy with the game itself?

My only hopeful character is a longshot...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Goodmorning...Is there any new fake leaks? If so...then I guess we will wait.. Yawn...



Am I the only person who doesn't have any prediction or hopes and is just happy with the game itself?

I’m more than happy with the game and if it came out with what we have right now I’d be overly satisfied by it, but I know we’re getting more than what we already have so if I know we’re getting more then how can I not predict or hope? Predictions and hopes =/= unsatisfied.

 

[StormC]

You can make predictions and hope for things while still being very happy with the game. I don't demand anything more from this game at all, it's already given me everything I desperately wanted, and so much more than that too, but it's still fun to have characters to hope for and make predictions, not sure how I'd pass the time until release otherwise.

Pretty much. The game could ship as is and it would be worth every penny. I just want to know where the madman is going from here... never thought in my wildest dreams I would pretty much get all my most wanted confirmed right off the bat.

I'm actually actively trying to keep myself from being disappointed if Banjo-Kazooie doesn't make it because I know it would make me ungrateful. I didn't realize how badly I wanted them until after K. Rool was confirmed. While they wouldn't surpass my hype for him, it would be close.

 

[AzureFlame4]

All of my hopeful characters are unlikely, so I'm pretty content with the game as it is. The only one I feel has a real shot is Skull Kid but even that feels like a longshot.

 

[Zinith]

Boshi would only be a bonus for me. The game is good as is...

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Well I always counted Pikachu and Jigglypuff as stage 1 Pokémon and Pichu as a basic one.

Time for an ultra beast maybe?

Either that or a Mystical Pokemon as Zeraora would be a perfect fit!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So here’s another pointless side quest while we wait for another 14 hours for this Direct.

Let’s say you had only one character to show support for and, because of some driving, unseen force, it can only be a character that is somehow related to your username by name/theme/franchise/alphabet/etc.

.

*Heavenly thinking noises*

 

[Michele]

You can make predictions and hope for things while still being very happy with the game. I don't demand anything more from this game at all, it's already given me everything I desperately wanted, and so much more than that too, but it's still fun to have characters to hope for and make predictions, not sure how I'd pass the time until release otherwise.

I suppose you're right. It's good to not have predictions and be cool with the game, but I think it's better and fun when I have a prediction.

Ok, I'm predicting for Skull Kid and Bandana Dee, but that's it.
I would add Magolor from Kirby: Return to Dreamland, but it's more of a hope than prediction. Isn't it about time Kirby franchise got...a villian? No, King Dedede and Meta Knight doesn't count as they both have teamed up with Kirby.

 

[Zinith]

*looks at username*

Should've went with Boshi. He was chief of Yoshis so he was at the "Zenith"...

 

[praline]

Hey guys how many new comers do you think we have left including Echos i would say 10 Max

I think 8. 3 unique and 5 echo

 

[Pep1to]

I think we have 3 unique and 6 echo

Geno
Isaac
New pokemon

My heart wants Banjo Kazooie, but my money is on that he will be DLC.

That is something that i have been thinking for some while. They can't just include all characters in the ballot or characters we wish before release.

I think Nintendo has already planned their DLC content and will definitely be a mix of high placing ballot chars and third party/new series.

 

[Darkraid]

I think 8. 3 unique and 5 echo

4 unique, 5 echo

 

[Zinith]

I'm going with 4 uniques and 4 echoes

 

[ZephyrZ]

.

*Heavenly thinking noises*

Valkyries are a part of Norse Myth, and so is the god Odin, who Odin Dark borrows his name from. Incineroar is a Dark-Type, but also a starter pokemon form. Do you know how many starter pokemon there are in each region? Three. And what has three sides? A triangle. Like the Triforce.

Naturally I'm going to assume you're choosing to support Tingle.

 

[StormC]

Also in the 4/4 camp. I don't think we'll get more echoes than uniques, but I also initially thought we'd get 2-3 more echoes at best after Daisy, so...

 

[hazza5557]

I honestly feel like Sakurai was trolling when he said don’t expect too many new fighters. I think we have about 10 left, 5 new and 5 echos.

Skull Kid
Incineroar
Geno
Isaac
Banjo Kazooie

Isabelle
Shadow
Ken
Dixie Kong
Impa

DLC

Rex & Pyra
Rayman
Springman

 

[WaxPython]

Unpopular opinion but I don't agree with having Lucina and Daisy as echo fighters.

Why couldn't they get tbe alt skin treatment that the 7 koopalimgs and Alph got?

 

[Michele]

Unpopular opinion but I don't agree with having Lucina and Daisy as echo fighters.

Why couldn't they get tbe alt skin treatment that the 7 koopalimgs and Alph got?

To be honest Daisy needed to appear more in games. I mean...Her last big role was on Super Mario Land and no, not that 3DS game, that GB game. Nintendo felt like she needed to be represented in Smash. I don't know Nintendo's mentality.

 

[Calane]

Unpopular opinion but I don't agree with having Lucina and Daisy as echo fighters.

Why couldn't they get tbe alt skin treatment that the 7 koopalimgs and Alph got?

Daisy's personality is too different from Peach for her to be an alt. This problem doesn't apply to Alph or the Koopalings as much. It would look very odd to see Daisy doing all of Peach's animations and whatnot.

If they were alts with different animations, then I don't see why they wouldn't just make them echo fighters at that point. I think they made the right choice.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hmm, it's hard to say what the full list could be, but among contenders for unique; Isabelle, Isaac, Geno, Steve?(the issue is that Microsoft getting a character isn't that hard, but the best sales for them would be DLC. Steve? is the only one who is already pretty much heavily on Nintendo where it isn't a necessity to be pure business), Banjo & Kazooie(though now I see why people think they'll be DLC. I'm not nearly that confident in them), Master Chief(same reasoning among Microsoft characters as earlier, though base game would still make sense since it's an active franchise, not just purely a fan favorite, which would sell far better as DLC, especially if it's a dead franchise), a new Pokemon(Gen III or VII seems the most likely, though who it'll be is hard to say. Gardevoir might be the only option left if we consider a Pokemon already shown off or among the stages are disconfirmed. Gen VII has 5 potential ones, being Lycanroc(any form), Incineroar, Decidueye, Buzzwole, and Tapu Koko), and that's kind of it. Zeraora missed the deadline hard as is. DLC or nada, and a Gen VII base roster is way more likely anyway. Gen VIII has a reasonable possibility as DLC down the line, though, and that's all I can think of that are fairly likely. Rayman and/or Rabbids are a contender, but possibly a smaller one. I don't think Shantae will make it to playable, but I think she'll show up as an AT or at least a Trophy. I actually forgot Skull Kid and Elma. Skull Kid I'm not that confident on, as it feels like a lot of strawgrasping for him to be in(at least based upon the chairs), but he definitely is higher than before with the AT missing and other various tweets, plus a good amount of popularity. Probably ballot too. Elma I think has a good chance, due to Xenoblade being rather popular and the timing works. Never played the series, so it's a character I sleep on unintentionally.

For Echoes, there's Shadow and Ken for fairly likely ones. Lesser but potential options are Felix(for Isaac), Impa(for Shek), Dixie Kong(for Diddy), Ninten(for Ness). Dixie is also the only one among these who has a decent chance for unique. As much as I want to see Impa unique, I doubt it'll happen. HW is a spin-off, so is likely off the table for moveset potential(spin-offs tend to not get referenced like that. However, they certainly can give inspiration to show a character can potentially fight). Oh, and Octolings. How'd I forget them? Derp.

DLC is another matter. Rex & Pyra are possible(though it also depends if they find an interesting way to make them work well and if Elma is already base, though her being base wouldn't cut into them, but it's hard to say if he wants to give them that many characters just yet. Sakurai has made it clear that the amount of series representation, not just playable characters either, but in general, is taken into consideration). Spring Man is the only one I feel fairly confident in.

 

[SmashShadow]

Looking at what we have so far and the fact that we only have 3 months left.

Inkling
Ridley
Simon
K.Rool


Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus

I'd say 4-5 original and 4-6 echoes. There is plenty of echoes they could add but lets be honest, I doubt there are too many high priority ones.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I can't wait for Sakurai to be sitting in a room with a 50 foot tall monster statue so people can debate if it's Doshin the Giant or Godzilla coming to Smash.

Yes, I made a funny, even when I was the one who brought up the chairs theory. Shoot me.

Dude. You got to be quiet about this. Doshin is suposed to be the surprise character.

So here’s another pointless side quest while we wait for another 14 hours for this Direct.

Let’s say you had only one character to show support for and, because of some driving, unseen force, it can only be a character that is somehow related to your username by name/theme/franchise/alphabet/etc.

For me, Venus of the Desert Bloom. Isaac is obvious pick so I’m gonna do the opposite and choose Krookadile.

**** ... Uhm. The name was something random I made in school many years ago for online. It's for someone or something cleaning away the crap of the universe by shooting it ... Uhm.

Sgt. Cortez from TimeSplitters. He goes through timezones to get rid of things that would kill humanity. I call that epic blasting FPS hero.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Looking at what we have so far and the fact that we only have 3 months left.

Inkling
Ridley
Simon
K.Rool


Daisy
Chrom
Dark Samus

I'd say 4-5 original and 4-6 echoes. There is plenty of echoes they could add but lets be honest, I doubt there are too many high priority ones.

You forgot Richter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Echoes and Unique stay the same, but that's just me being silly cause I'm a math freak. >.>

 

[Zinith]

Skull Kid
Elma
Isaac
Geno

Dixie Kong
Isabelle
Impa
Boshi

Eh, I guess...

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Unpopular opinion but I don't agree with having Lucina and Daisy as echo fighters.

Why couldn't they get tbe alt skin treatment that the 7 koopalimgs and Alph got?

Well to be fair, Lucina did get the alt treatment originally, but Sakurai decided to make her and Dark Pit a free dessert and I'm glad he did.

 

[Zinith]

I think the alt costumes have to do with personality. Olimar and Alph are in the general ballpark of each other, and so is Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings...

 

[NintenRob]

I going into this Direct wanting Skull Kid and Bandana Dee. But I'm kinda expecting a Pokemon. Who I'm more of the opinion it will be Tapu Koko, maybe Lycanroc.


Definitely don't think it will be Incineroar

 

[lizard1929]

I think the alt costumes have to do with personality. Olimar and Alph are in the general ballpark of each other, and so is Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings...

The alt costume and echo debate is a hard one to pin down. They both exist in ultimate but its hard to clarify what makes a character an echo instead of an alt.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The alt costume and echo debate is a hard one to pin down. They both exist in ultimate but its hard to clarify what makes a character an echo instead of an alt.

Moveset differences. That's kind of it. Whether it's due to personality or the team having ideas. No matter how little the difference is.

 

[Michele]

Since we're waiting for Smash Ultimate, and there's not much to discuss about that game for the moment, can we please talk for a moment about the Online Service? Nintendo has yet to reveal the full details, but what do you think will Nintendo say?

 

[Originality]

I still believe the major thing that separates Echoes is having different animations and win screens. The small tweaks to moveset are just to justify them being a different slot in my eyes.

 

[T-Hell]

My only hopeful character is a longshot...

No joke in what I'm about to say, but I have a little theory that this game could feature a villain or rival for all the O12. Not necessarely a heroes vs villains thing, but more like a wink to the original characters.

We got:
1-Mario - Bowser
2-Luigi - Bowser
3-Pikachu - Mewtwo/Incineroar
4-Link - Ganondorf
5-Fox - Wolf
6-Samus - Ridley/Dark Samus
7-Kirby - Metaknight
8-Yoshi - Boshi
9-Captain - Black Shadow
10-Jiggs - Mewtwo/Incineroar
11-Ness - Porky
12-DK - K.Rool

That means we still have left Boshi, Black Shadow and Porky. The first two could be easy echoes, but Porky would have to be unique. Obviously this is something I've been thinking that has a slim chance to actually become a thing, but hey, they would be cool for the story mode and stuff.