Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Danpal65]

Quick, what # is Summit's post?

It's #141

Edit: 'd

 

[ZephyrZ]

Well, I am clearly talking about tournament play. Mastery of all 3 is essentially for doing the best there. You'll do generally fine in casual stuff if you simply got the characters down with fundamentals, but it doesn't speak for high end play.

I feel these factors could make them be mid tier at best.

I feel like the logic here is sort of backwards.

Let's go back to Melee Zelda as a comparison. If you want to play Sheik as optimally as possible, you have to know how to play Zelda as well. But if you only learn how to play Sheik, does that somehow make her a worse character by several tiers? Pokemon Trainer, by default, is only going to be as bad as their best pokemon is. If Squirtle by themselves is high tier, for instance, a bottom-tier Zard isn't going to somehow drag him down to mid tier.

Besides, I don't think tier lists really take "how hard the character is to learn" into account, just how good they are when played optimally. That's how a character like Ryu can be high tier in Smash 4 despite being far harder to learn then other characters.

 

[Shroob]

oddly enough its 141

so some of the "missing" #'s might have nothing to do with the direct now

That seemed pretty obvious, to me at least after looking over the link provided earlier.

Yeah, they moved the Pikmin music up, but that didn't mean that ALL of those posts missing were part of the Direct.

 

[Jetsurge]

By the way how many hours/days are left until the direct?

1 day, 13 hours and 45 minutes If it actually is on the leaked date

 

[Shroob]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel like the logic here is sort of backwards.

Let's go back to Melee Zelda as a comparison. If you want to play Sheik as optimally as possible, you have to know how to play Zelda as well. But if you only learn how to play Sheik, does that somehow make her a worse character by several tiers? Pokemon Trainer, by default, is only going to be as bad as their best pokemon is. If Squirtle by themselves is high tier, for instance, a bottom-tier Zard isn't going to somehow drag him down to mid tier.

Besides, I don't think tier lists really take "how hard the character is to learn" into account, just how good they are when played optimally. That's how a character like Ryu can be high tier in Smash 4 despite being far harder to learn then other characters.

I'd like to correct something; you could always start as Sheik in Melee via a "gameplay trick" and never have to switch. You were down a single B move at best.

Pokemon Trainer works differently. Switching will happen as long as you are doing a Time Battle(Coin included) or have more than one Stock in general(well, okay, generally will happen, if you get KO'd). You don't need to switch between Zelda and Sheik. They were designed with a goal in mind, to build up damage with Sheik and finish with Zelda. But they're so absurdly balanced that there's no point in trying to main both, nor is maining both a remote necessity to work with. PT absolutely requires you to main all 3 due to its full design.

Besides, all 3 Pokemon are relatively balanced enough to avoid this issue. It's not an extreme difference in general. They're all quite servicable. Though yeah, that could change with patches/final game, but the current demo has shown them as a pretty balanced trio overall.

Fair point on the learning aspect. But the learning point was more about the necessity of understanding how to properly play all 3, and that will affect tiers overall.

 

[Nethermoosen]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

It includes a lot of the exact same info as the old Gillybal leak on the boards.

Interesting choices. That version of Isaac would be nuts. Let’s hope this is the one in 150000000000000000000000.
(Even though it’s not)

 

[Jedisupersonic]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

This smells of wish fulfillment but I can’t say I don’t want this to actually happen.

Alas, too much detail.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I disagree that it’s that easy to punish the switch when we’ve all seen it used to avoid attacks and punish in turn. It isn’t infallible, but it’s not too shabby.

View attachment 163522

Switching Potential:

Squirtle to Ivysaur: Ivysaur has good range with fair and bair, meaning the switchout could space some enemies with greater attack range than Squirtle. Essentially an airdodge with safer reaction potential at range. Ivysaur also has razor leaf for those pesky projectile wars.

Ivysaur to Charizard: switching as a dodge into Charizard could set up for a kill using fair, uair, fly, hard punish with flareblitz or space with bair(still possible kill option). It also increases weight, meaning it’s the safest dodge to screw up. Also good for improving Ivysaurs recovery.

Charizard to Squirtle: My first thought is switching as a dodge and then using side b for it’s invulnerability, which also allows you to gain distance from the enemy to switch into Ivysaur for free if that’s your main. Squirtle also has some of the quickest attacks and would therefore react faster assuming the opponent is within range.

The forced switch just isn’t that bad. The speed of the switch itself may not be free, but any landed attack with decent knockback will net you a needed switch.

Clarification: These are just ideas and I am not recommending using these specific examples so much as suggesting that testing methods is absolutely worth the effort and more than likely will lead to interesting combinations.

Pokemon Change takes a substantial amount of time (40 something frames), while producing no movement to get you into a better position nor no hitboxes at all to threaten opponents, that is a very punishable move; with quick attacks you could whiff the Change and then still punish and get them back into disadvantage, or you can read it and just sit there charging a big smash attack for a really big punish, and most significantly of all, that is easily punishable on reaction, so you don't even need to read Pokemon Change to punish it.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I have no belief at all that solo main strats as PT will do anything but crash and burn. Solo Charizard especially I can't imagine working like... at all. Let's remember that Charizard was actually a bad character in 4 back when he had four special moves, and while Charizard looks otherwise buffed (usmash more reliable, lower jumpsquat disproportionately useful, Flare Blitz might hit hard enough to be worth it), he's still a big with worse defensive options than the other bigs overall when honestly the other bigs were already suspect (it's probably not a coincidence that you so rarely see any of the bigs actually succeed at the highest level). Meanwhile you're a down-B away from not having so many of the usual big problems. You can try to get out of horrible juggles as Squirtle. You can try to approach Olimar as Squirtle. You can be "not Charizard" when you're at under 50% so you don't just waste the first half of every stock since that's about how much damage a 0% Charizard tends to take upon getting hit. As a switching PT player you can still enjoy the various power, survival, and control advantages Charizard offers when the situation is right and much more strongly avoid all of the naturally terrible things his big self would usually invite upon you. I mean maybe there are things I'm not seeing and somehow he'll suddenly be awesome after two games of being mediocre at best with visibly suspect dynamics, but I'd bet more that Charizard is going to be a bad solo main and am dedicating 100% of my mental efforts on how to use him imagining what match situations I'd want to switch to him in a strategy primarily based around Squirtle and Ivysaur.

It's not at all like any other transformation systems from past games either. In Melee switching Zelda to Sheik was fairly slow and Zelda was worthless anyway (which I suppose is a series constant; Zelda's core design is just horrible). In Brawl you had the call to the disk reader so it was a non-constant switch time that still averaged "insanely long"; you basically couldn't switch without an insanely large opening (like you're completely forgoing an entire off-stage chase) and even then you had to hope you didn't get unlucky and weren't on the 1-2 set-ups at every tournament where switching would take 2-3x longer than on all the others because the Wiis did not have well manufactured disk readers. Switching now takes about as long as an airdodge and is effectively a command airdodge. Sure you can be punished if you do it at a dumb time just like you can be punished for bad airdodges, but it's entirely practical to do a move of that speed with large invincibility frames a lot. Maybe it's going to be a little slow to actually combo unless the situation is somehow really perfect, but it's certainly fast enough to "hit them up into the air in general and follow through a mix-up with the next Pokemon" which most of the time is more important than doing a combo anyway...

I'll also just say that having mained Brawl G&W I look at things a bit differently. The problem in getting better isn't that you have an overwhelmingly large number of things to learn. The problem is that you have few options and it's not obvious how to use them to go beyond where you are at now other than do basically the same things you do now but more precisely with consistently more accurate reads on your opponent which isn't really sustainable if your opponents are also improving. Then I mained Rosalina who was super complicated in a lot of subtle ways but who also just created magic out of situations, and while a few things about Rosalina were problems I didn't solve (the Olimar match-up always felt so hopeless, and I was always grateful that almost no one could play him well enough to be a threat), having a complex array of options was awesome since it let me handle a reasonable array of my problems by working around them with strategy shifts instead of directly through them with "just get good" methods. It's the same fundamental reason that fast characters with good limbs seem to always be good; just having a ton of useful options that you can use in a lot of different ways and thus being able to avoid being brickwalled as much as possible is just about the single most helpful thing a character can offer you in the long run. PT will have more ways to approach problems than anyone else in the game. It's more to learn initially and a big web of options to navigate, but you have triple the vectors to navigate brick walls that your opponents will be trying to put in your way. PT is hardly guaranteed to be top tier since he can in the end only go as far as his components will carry him (much more than stamina or the horrible switch times this is why he was bad in Brawl; he doesn't work with only one contributing team member), but we've seen mostly positive signs from the components so far and the framework is fundamentally a positive and not a negative. I believe in the potential so strongly; I've said it before and am happy to say it again.

Miis were banned in 4 because they were inherently custom characters and, if you're banning customs, it really makes no sense to allow Miis anyway (it's not really fair to let a Mii player use Helicopter Kick but not let a Palutena player have a functional moveset, for instance). Like you could allow 1111 default size Miis, but they were all bad anyway if you used them like that so it didn't really matter. Granted customs also mostly made the game better anyway but they were scary and required players to learn a lot of things so we banned them so it wasn't great decision making anyway; Smash 4 was definitely a pretty harsh low point in the quality of community decision making. I'm hoping the simpler situation Ultimate will present with a stage hazard toggle and seemingly no compelling customization systems and seemingly streamlined menus will help the community avoid defeating itself in policy, and I'm pretty confident we'll be seeing Mii Fighters truly legal this time around.

As per hard characters vs easy characters, I dunno the community is just so salty all around. Brawl MK was easy and made salt. 4 Bayonetta is hard and makes somehow even more salt despite being clearly much worse than Brawl MK. Any character who plays defensively makes people salty (boy I should know). Any character who just wins a lot in general will make a lot of people salty (see: Sheik and Diddy). Using a custom move to your advantage definitely always made people salty. Counterpicking a clever stage makes people salty as does "playing on Lylat Cruise at all" for some inconceivable reason. In fact, winning at all is a good way to make this community salty; if you want no one to be salty, main King Dedede and spend the whole match going for hard reads with Jet Hammer and you probably won't make anyone salty unless somehow you actually hit enough times to win in which case they'll be salty. The way I was taught how to compete, being a little salty sometimes meant you just cared a lot and were good but being really salty usually meant that you sucked and weren't able to improve because you weren't able to accept personal responsibility for your defeats and thus learn from them. I hope with the new game maybe at least a few more people will get that memo?

 

[Soulsaint]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

King of Cards is releasing April 2019. So that is BS for sure. There is no way that they are releasing it sooner. Bevause the reason for the delay is Switch physical version and Shovel Knight Showdown having to be on it aswel.

 

[lizard1929]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

Why is shovel knight shoved in their with 3ds stuff? Also Assassins creed Ezio collection is a weird reveal...… Fzero game makes it all bs especially with pokemon name drop before lets go is even out. yeah I'm sorry this is to much wishful thinking.

 

[Zinith]

As per hard characters vs easy characters, I dunno the community is just so salty all around. Brawl MK was easy and made salt. 4 Bayonetta is hard and makes somehow even more salt despite being clearly much worse than Brawl MK. Any character who plays defensively makes people salty (boy I should know). Any character who just wins a lot in general will make a lot of people salty (see: Sheik and Diddy). Using a custom move to your advantage definitely always made people salty. Counterpicking a clever stage makes people salty as does "playing on Lylat Cruise at all" for some inconceivable reason. In fact, winning at all is a good way to make this community salty; if you want no one to be salty, main King Dedede and spend the whole match going for hard reads with Jet Hammer and you probably won't make anyone salty unless somehow you actually hit enough times to win in which case they'll be salty. The way I was taught how to compete, being a little salty sometimes meant you just cared a lot and were good but being really salty usually meant that you sucked and weren't able to improve because you weren't able to accept personal responsibility for your defeats and thus learn from them. I hope with the new game maybe at least a few more people will get that memo?

My boi still gets **** flung at him despite the lack of a presence at tourneys. It's infuriating

 

[papagenos]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

that leak seems to fit these images.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

This video should also answer some of your questions(implied) from your last post.
The switch can lead into pseudo-combos, but it depends on the opponents frame data compared to yours at the moment of the switch. Timing it right won’t always guarantee your opponent won’t be able to attack before you, but the inverse is also true.

Nice video thx! I will definitely watch it a few times, there's a lot of good info in there. One thing for sure, if you can't combo out of switching at least it will be way harder to read for the opponent imo (harder to predict what move will come next if the PT player can just switch and attack with a different pokemon).

At least high tier until someone discovers Wario’s motorcycle sets up the perfect fart.

Btw seriously i've tried many time to go from motocycle to fart (on for Glory not in tournaments obviously) and managed 2 or 3 times. Jumped off the motorcycle at fullspeed and used the element of surprise then 'combo' D-air to fart. Then as always when i'm playing Wario... the opponent quits the game... bad sport!

WA!

 

[osby]

My boi still gets **** flung at him despite the lack of a presence at tourneys. It's infuriating

I never get why people complain about mid/low tier characters if they aren't even going to use them.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

View attachment 163530View attachment 163531View attachment 163532View attachment 163533

that leak seems to fit these images.

Piggybacking off fake leaks.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Besides, I don't think tier lists really take "how hard the character is to learn" into account, just how good they are when played optimally. That's how a character like Ryu can be high tier in Smash 4 despite being far harder to learn then other characters.

They do take into account what is humanly feasible and the results that are achieved. In your Ryu example, a ton of people, including many top players, theorycrafted Ryu to be some broken top tier, but then outside of a couple of early flashes with Trela and Locus, Ryu never got the results to back it up; overall they're pretty good, but definitely not top tier level, let alone #1 character like Zero once infamously claimed. There's countless cases of the theorycraft to not turn out to reflect the reality, and TAS scenarios that could never be reflected in actual play.

 

[Deleted member]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

As much as this fake leak is bull, I don't expect him to, but I do hope a tiny bit that Reggie does mention the people of Hokkaido and gives respects. I remember during the time where Christina Grimmie passed away that was straight up the first thing they mentioned at their E3 2016 presentation, so maybe he'll do another message? If it doesn't happen, ain't no harm, since respects were already paid, but hopefully that can be the case.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, the biggest question I have now is:


Does today's numbering basically kill off a reveal of an echo fighter?


It seems pretty obvious that they wanted to keep the music secret of whoever was going to be shown off, so trailer+character+memories+music would fill all 4 slots, where an echo could have gone in slot 4 before.

 

[Jetsurge]

Honestly, the biggest question I have now is:


Does today's numbering basically kill off a reveal of an echo fighter?


It seems pretty obvious that they wanted to keep the music secret of whoever was going to be shown off, so trailer+character+memories+music would fill all 4 slots, where an echo could have gone in slot 4 before.

Nope Dark Samus and Chrom weren't added to the blog straight away

 

[Shroob]

Nope Dark Samus and Chrom weren't added to the blog straight away

No, but they were added the week after.

Bowser and Tink's numbering prove that the echo, if we were going to get one, was not next in line after the newcomer.

 

[ZephyrZ]

They do take into account what is humanly feasible and the results that are achieved. In your Ryu example, a ton of people, including many top players, theorycrafted Ryu to be some broken top tier, but then outside of a couple of early flashes with Trela and Locus, Ryu never got the results to back it up; overall they're pretty good, but definitely not top tier level, let alone #1 character like Zero once infamously claimed. There's countless cases of the theorycraft to not turn out to reflect the reality, and TAS scenarios that could never be reflected in actual play.

True enough, but all of this is just theorycrafting.

Maybe Pokemon Trainer will be some broken, salt-inducing character that well have to receive several nerfs after the game launches (I seriously doubt this outcome). Maybe all three pokemon will be garbage and no one except me and a handful of other loyalists will want to main them. Maybe one of them will be godly and the other two will be awful, and we'll see solo Squirtle mains taking tournaments despite the "limitations" automatic revival platform switching causes.

With all of that said, Ryu is still pretty dang good for a lot of the reasons people thought he'd be, even if he wasn't quite as godly as expected. Sure, people got overly excited like they often do, like when Mewtwo and Metaknight were constantly declared as "totally worthless" and Zelda and Ganon were called "finally viable" during their Sm4sh debuts, but with Pokemon Trainer's stamina mechanic out of the way, I can't see the trainer being bad. That's like if they made Ganon decently mobile or gave Shulk decent frame data. It wouldn't instantly guarantee they'd be top tier (I mean, it could still happen though), but I have a hard time not seeing them be at least be decent after that.

 

[Jetsurge]

No, but they were added the week after.

Bowser and Tink's numbering prove that the echo, if we were going to get one, was not next in line after the newcomer.

Or you know they rescheduled the site blog with Bowser and Toon Link instead of posting nothing.

 

[papagenos]

Honestly, the biggest question I have now is:


Does today's numbering basically kill off a reveal of an echo fighter?


It seems pretty obvious that they wanted to keep the music secret of whoever was going to be shown off, so trailer+character+memories+music would fill all 4 slots, where an echo could have gone in slot 4 before.

were still missing:
134/135/136/137

which could be a trailer video/character video/memory/ and then song OR stage OR echo

then we are missing:
140 (with summit now mysteriously filling in 141 late)

and then we are missing:
143/144/145

With dark samus and chrom coming in a little while after their reveals in the August direct (abra got a blog spot before they did for instance) AND chrom didnt even get a memory associated with him, we now have plenty of missing spots for an unknown amount of newcomers/echo fighters really.

 

[Shroob]

Or you know they rescheduled the site blog with Bowser and Toon Link instead of posting nothing.

The source code has their original numbering.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

At this point I'm considering that part of the direct needed to be re-recorded. Not necessarily for depictions of natural disasters mind.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Pokemon Change takes a substantial amount of time (40 something frames), while producing no movement to get you into a better position nor no hitboxes at all to threaten opponents, that is a very punishable move; with quick attacks you could whiff the Change and then still punish and get them back into disadvantage, or you can read it and just sit there charging a big smash attack for a really big punish, and most significantly of all, that is easily punishable on reaction, so you don't even need to read Pokemon Change to punish it.

Sure, that’s bad frame data for most moves, but during the first 30 frames, the move is intangible. This gives your opponent 1/6 of a second window before you can also act, which is better than the directional airdodge. They will have a better form of dodge in the air compared to everyone else. This at the cost of momentum.

I don’t think it will be as bad as you say, despite the frame data sounding bad on it’s own. It isn’t perfect. Thank Sakurai for that, but it will have it’s uses, predominantly in the air when positioning, timing and matchups allow.

 

[Shroob]

were still missing:
134/135/136/137

which could be a trailer video/character video/memory/ and then song OR stage OR echo

then we are missing:
140 (with summit now mysteriously filling in 141 late)

and then we are missing:
143/144/145

With dark samus and chrom coming in a little while after their reveals in the August direct (abra got a blog spot before they did for instance) AND chrom didnt even get a memory associated with him, we now have plenty of missing spots for an unknown amount of newcomers/echo fighters really.

The biggest difference here being that Tink was next in line after whoever was going to be shown.

I legit cannot imagine a world where the blog goes:

"Here's a newcomer!"

"Okay now here's a veteran..."

"Okay NOW here's that new echo we showed off a few days ago!"


They'd go back to back Newcomer into Echo, with new things from the Direct like items scattered in between; putting a veteran between them would basically kill the momentum.



137 would HAVE to be the Echo in this case, but with the Pikmin music debacle, it's probably the music of whoever was going to be revealed.


UNLESS the newcomer didn't get a memories and 136 was the music and 137 is the Echo, but have we ever had a non-echo newcomer NOT get a Memories?

 

[7982Brick]

https://imgur.com/a/03aKqeB


This 'leak' seems to be the talk of the town over on Gamefaqs right now besides the fake Loz18 posts.


It REEKS of bull****.

This leak is obviously fake because it has the wrong release date for Shovel Knight King of cards. The actual release date is April 2019 and this leak says the game will release November 9 of this year. Looks like this leaker needed to do a bit more research before he created this BS.

 

[Jetsurge]

This leak is obviously fake because it has the wrong release date for Shovel Knight King of cards. The actual release date is April 2019 and this leak says the game will release November 9 of this year. Looks like this leaker needed to do a bit more research before he created this BS.

Also Camelot just fininished Mario Tennis recently. No way they'd have a Golden Sun 4 ready in that time

Spoiler

and they are doomed to make Mario Sports games until the end of time

.

 

[Michele]

Goodmorning... What is going on, exactly?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Goodmorning... What is going on, exactly?

Still no direct but a lot of blog number post theory craft going on

 

[Shroob]

The only way I see us getting an Echo fighter in the Direct is if the newcomer doesn't ship with a new music track,/memories which seems highly unlikely due to them having to pull up the Pikmin music for this week.

That, and have we gotten a single non-echo newcomer without a memories?

It's not impossible, but it's highly improbable.


134: Traler
135: 30 second gameplay clip
136: Memories
137: Music

or

134: Trailer
135: 30-sec clip
and then 136 or 137 would be the Echo, depending on memories or music.

They more or less cannot be past this point, since Toon Link was always planned to be 138, meaning that they would have skipped over the brand new Echo to talk about a Veteran, which they have never done before.

 

[Michele]

Still no direct but a lot of blog number post theory craft going on

Yeah, I saw that too. Apparentely there are so many pages about it now, that if I searched for Nintendo Direct on Google, it would give me more than 10 pages even within 1 hour...

Anyways, nooo, not this Loz thing again...Why are we talking about him again now? I thought he already lost his credibility?

 

[Arcanir]

The biggest difference here being that Tink was next in line after whoever was going to be shown.

I legit cannot imagine a world where the blog goes:

"Here's a newcomer!"

"Okay now here's a veteran..."

"Okay NOW here's that new echo we showed off a few days ago!"


They'd go back to back Newcomer into Echo, with new things from the Direct like items scattered in between; putting a veteran between them would basically kill the momentum.



137 would HAVE to be the Echo in this case, but with the Pikmin music debacle, it's probably the music of whoever was going to be revealed.

The music update likely would not have been #137.

With Inklings, Simon, and King K. Rool, all of their respective franchise's music updates were not uploaded immediately following their reveal, instead they were uploaded over the following Wednesdays, usually grouped with another minor blog update to go alongside it. That's been the trend so far, and there's little reason to assume it would've been broken in this case as there's nothing special from what we can see in the missing slots. To add to this, if you look at the slots #140 lines up perfectly with where a Wednesday music update would be as 134-136 are definitely connected to the newcomer for Friday's, Bowser's replaced Monday's, which likely would've been #137, Toon Link's character update would be Tuesday (#138-39), and then we got the Summit today (#141). That means we have one slot right in-between Toon Link's and the Summit that is unaccounted for, #140, which we know has been switched out for Pikmin's music update. Taking that into account along with the trend of the blog it's the exact position that a music update would've been thrown in to follow a character update.

 

[AzureFlame4]

What if Louie was the echo fighter this week?

 

[Shroob]

The music update likely would not have been #137.

With Inklings, Simon, and King K. Rool, all of their respective franchise's music updates were not uploaded immediately following their reveal, instead they were uploaded over the following Wednesdays, usually grouped with another minor blog update to go alongside it. That's been the trend so far, and there's little reason to assume it would've been broken in this case as there's nothing special from what we can see in the missing slots. To add to this, if you look at the slots #140 lines up perfectly with where a Wednesday music update would be as 134-136 are definitely connected to the newcomer for Friday's, Bowser's replaced Monday's, which likely would've been #137, Toon Link's character update would be Tuesday (#138-39), and then we got the Summit today (#141). That means we have one slot right in-between Toon Link's and the Summit that is unaccounted for, #140, which we know has been switched out, and considering the trend of the blog it's the exact position that a music update would've been thrown in to follow a character update.

The music update likely would not have been #137.

Actually, Simon's went up, like, right away. It was even in the Direct.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

View attachment 163530View attachment 163531View attachment 163532View attachment 163533

that leak seems to fit these images.

>Daisy in NSMB
I'm sold.

Also, any words from Nintendo yet?

 

[AzureFlame4]

Listening to Sims music really makes me wish there was a realistic chance of Bella or Mortimer Goth making it into Smash. Just throwing that out there and seeing where it sticks.