Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Strider_Bond00J]

So question to everyone? Assuming the Amiibo thing turns out to be true. Who will you unlock instantly?

Me just Bowser, Duck Hunt, King Dedede, King K. Rool, Ridley and Rosalina & Luma. Everyone else though I'll unlock properly.

If the rumour is true, then I've got a free pass to unlocking quite a number of them already. Though on launch I might go ahead and unlock at least 10-15 characters just to flesh out the starting roster, probably the ones I want to play immediately or have there for the sake of being available soon. That would be:
. Though I might swap out Ridley for Ganondorf since I want to actually fight Ridley before I get to play as him. A true test for any good Space Pirate.

But when it comes to unlocking through amiibo, it might be something I do rarely since I still want the chill of the "WARNING CHALLENGER APPROACHING" siren.

This one specifically left an impact on me

And to answer this other question of yours...

So what's everyone's final prediction of the Newcomer on Thursday?

My money is on Isaac or Skull Kid.

Well, it's more or less parroting your answer, but I highly suspect it's either gonna be Isaac or Skull Kid. Either them or a random curveball

 

[Deleted member]

I do wonder how long they can put it off before it’s too late to use a lot of the direct? I would imagine sooner or later magazines and other outlets with inside knowledge might let something out.

Still hope for the best for them over in Japan but eventually I feel like someone will leak or say something before then.

By now Nintendo would've already contacted those outlets and reformatted the media plan, which added to why this was a week-long delay, from what PushDustin said. Not to mention the Famitsu column wasn't gonna have anything related to the Direct, IIRC.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would imagine base-wise they'd reveal Geno for last as a surprise the same reason why I'd think they'd reveal Banjo-Kazooie for last as DLC. They're the only characters as well as Isaac I can think of topping K. Rool and Ridley in terms of hype.

Speaking of which. What's the possibility Advance Wars could be represented in the form of an assist trophy and what character do you think it would be? I'd presume Sami.

Am I misremembering, or didn't it have an AT as infantry unit, back in Brawl?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

so nothing from famitsu yet?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I really can't imagine Isabelle with freakish long arms
View attachment 163482
Time for a breakdown of differences:

• Chubbier arms
• Chubbier legs
• Shorter arms
• Shorter legs
• Body has a different shape and size
• Heads are different shapes
• Villager is slightly taller though that's not much I'll admit
• THOSE FREAKING ARMS MAN

I'm gonna laugh so hard when she's unique, this all reminds me too much of "Ridley would just be a Charizard clone!"

With Echoes I'm a big proportions guy and frequently shut down people suggesting unworkable Echoes, but in this case I really don't think the proportions are all that different here. I don't see how the arms and legs being slightly "chubbier" would affect things at all, head shape isn't going to matter at all here (at most her head hurtbox would just be slightly different), and slightly shorter arms and legs would probably just require a slight animation adjustment if anything at all (which as seen with Dark Samus is on the table for Echoes). Another thing is people have to consider how Villager's actual moveset works, it's almost all projectiles and random weapons, Isabelle's slightly shorter limbs wouldn't affect how these moves work, at most the direct moves would have slightly less reach from her slightly shorter limbs, while Sakurai could still adjust animations to have the hitboxes still match if it's necessary? If Villager's moveset consisted of a bunch of physical fisticuffs moves or other complicated animations that require his longer limbs I could see it being a potential issue then, but as it stands when it's just him throwing random **** at people with fairly simple animations, I just don't see the issue.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Actually, yes, I am very upset. Charizard has always been my favorite Pokémon, I always use Charmander whenever it's available. I have never used Squirtle or Bulbasaur ever. I also grew up with the Pokémon anime, and loved how Ash's Charizard developed. From feeling that it didn't trust it's own trainer, to the trainer proving his worth to Charizard, to overcoming many odds in the anime like Noland's Articuno and Gary's Blastoise, Charizard just feels relatable to me. Ash's Charizard knew he was flawed after being bodied by a Poliwrath, but he is presistant and trains hard for his ultimate goals in life. I really admire that, and it's one of the reasons why Charizard is my favorite Pokémon. Plus, Charizard is a dragon, and dragons are awesome.

I mained Olimar in Brawl, I don't know why I did but I remember not enjoying the trainer back then. I first got into Project M with version 2.0, and I noticed that Olimar wasn't there but Charizard was. I thought it would be cool to learn the Zard in Project M, and sure enough, his playstyle fit me like a glove. There was no looking back after that. When I saw that Charizard was announced for Smash 4 by himself, I felt like it was destiny; I commited to maining Charizard in Smash 4 since day one. I used to live in Chicago and became known as "the Charizard guy", only ever using him in Smash 4 tournaments. I didn't care about how bad he was, or how easy other characters had it; I used Charizard because I loved how he played, and nothing was restricting him from being who he truly was; just straight up Charizard. I moved to SoCal around early 2016, with my most recent tournament currently being EVO 2016. I haven't played Smash 4 much since then, but the Chicago Smash 4 community will always know me as the most dedicated Charizard they ever met, and that feels pretty good.

When Charizard was shown to be with the trainer in Smash Ultimate, I didn't know what to think at first. I was happy he wasn't cut, but I never liked playing as Squirtle and Ivysaur and now I'm "forced" to use him with Charizard. Luckily, I did go to E3 this year, so I played as the trainer for four matches. I just did not feel the same at all. I was very happy that Charizard received buffs to moves like Flamethrower and back-air, but I did not enjoy playing as the other two Pokémon. Plus, on the victory screen, it shows the trainer petting Zard and "Pokémon Trainer Wins!", instead of "Charizard Wins!" like in Smash 4. I know it may seem nitpicky, but it does take out some immersion for me. I felt like I was the one who was Charizard's trainer, and now some in-game character claims to be the real trainer instead. It feels like a stab in the back to me; I worked so hard on training Zard by myself, and now someone else "takes the credit". I know it seems a bit silly, but I just want to play as Charizard and Charizard alone. It really sucks that I may drop him as a main because of this, but him being a part of the trainer ruins the whole idea of the character to me. Oh well.

On a lighter note, the Chicago Smash 4 community also knew me as "the King K. Rool guy" since I was the loudest supporter of the Kremling King in the community. I was really hoping he would be added to the game to replace the Pokémon Trainer as my main. Lo and behold, I finally got King K. Rool after years of begging for him. The whole situation really does feel bitter sweet, and I really don't want to stop maining Charizard, but I can't bring myself to use him. It's just not the same, no other character got drastically retooled like Charizard did. I worked on him so much during Smash 4, so I'll probably keep the trainer as a secondary just to use Charizard. But maybe King K. Rool is exactly the fresh blood I needed, and I am so excited to learn a brand new character and catch him up with my Charizard. As it stands, I plan on making King K. Rool my new main for Ultimate, as he is my second favorite video game character of all time. But my first favorite, Charizard, has made his mark, and his legacy will always be remembered by me.

To directly answer your question, yes. I really wish I could keep maining solo Charizard, but he had a great run and I am so ecstatic to main King K. Rool.

Us Squirtle fans may not be too happy either.
I truly wish Pokemon Trainer worked by allowing him to choose any other three Pokemon, taking away their down-specials.

It is ridiculous that three of the most iconic pokemon (and video game) characters are relegated to being less important than echo fighters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Am I misremembering, or didn't it have an AT as infantry unit, back in Brawl?

Looked it up. You're definitely right they were an assist trophy.

 

[Q-Long]

I would imagine base-wise they'd reveal Geno for last as a surprise the same reason why I'd think they'd reveal Banjo-Kazooie for last as DLC. They're the only characters as well as Isaac I can think of topping K. Rool and Ridley in terms of hype.

Speaking of which. What's the possibility Advance Wars could be represented in the form of an assist trophy and what character do you think it would be? I'd presume Sami.

I wish man... but AW sadly is ded rn ;_;

 

[Shroob]

Looked it up. At most it seems to had been represented as a trophy.

Uh, no.

Advanced Wars had an AT. It summoned a bunch of sprite soldiers and tanks that would run around on the stage.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Looked it up. At most it seems to had been represented as a trophy.

http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Infantry_and_Tanks

Nope, they were an AT

 

[Heracr055]

My name begins with M, so...

Mace Windu.

 

[Kirbeh]

Sakurai will put in a newcomer

But it has to be a character that starts with the letter of your first name. Who is it?

My name starts with Q so I'm screwed. Q from Street Fighter or the F-Zero one I guess

That'd be an A. So this. I'm not sorry.

Spoiler

Image is apparently broken on my end. It's Asuka from Senran Kagura.

 

[Danpal65]

Us Squirtle fans may not be too happy either.
I truly wish Pokemon Trainer worked by allowing him to choose any other three Pokemon, taking away their down-specials.

It is ridiculous that three of the most iconic pokemon (and video game) characters are relegated to being less important than echo fighters.

How are they less important? They get just as much spotlight as any other veteran, have their own fighter numbers, have unique sets of moves and animations. Yes they all work together under the banner of a singular character, which makes sense, but they are no where near as straight forward as an echo. There is certainly not less importance put upon them.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Uh, no.

Advanced Wars had an AT. It summoned a bunch of sprite soldiers and tanks that would run around on the stage.

Poop I wasn't fast enough to edit my post. Yeah you're right they were.

 

[Handy Man]

Us Squirtle fans may not be too happy either.
I truly wish Pokemon Trainer worked by allowing him to choose any other three Pokemon, taking away their down-specials.

It is ridiculous that three of the most iconic pokemon (and video game) characters are relegated to being less important than echo fighters.

I agree dude. I love what Project M did and made them all seperate. I feel the three Pokémon shine best on their own, as some people have a hard time using all three of them, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. Oh well. Sakurai probably wanted to make the whole "Everyone is Here" thing as faithful as possible, and that included bringing back the trainer, for better or worse.

 

[osby]

Good morning. What did I missed?

 

[pupNapoleon]

How are they less important? They get just as much spotlight as any other veteran, have their own fighter numbers, have unique sets of moves and animations. Yes they all work together under the banner of a singular character, which makes sense, but they are no where near as straight forward as an echo. There is certainly not less importance put upon them.

No, they inherently dont get as much spotlight. The characters arent even individually labeled on the Smash website.
You know which characters get their own banner, trailers, and promotion? Echo fighters.
These are facts.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Sakurai will put in a newcomer

But it has to be a character that starts with the letter of your first name. Who is it?

My name starts with Q so I'm screwed. Q from Street Fighter or the F-Zero one I guess

R

That's easy.

Rsora

 

[Koopaul]

I agree dude. I love what Project M did and made them all seperate. I feel the three Pokémon shine best on their own, as some people have a hard time using all three of them, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. Oh well. Sakurai probably wanted to make the whole "Everyone is Here" thing as faithful as possible, and that included bringing back the trainer, for better or worse.

The whole concept of the Pokemon Trainer would be gone then. You would just have three individual Pokemon and the Trainer would play no part.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Good morning. What did I missed?

Turns out the Sept 13th Direct rumor was indeed true. Let's look forward to Thursday and see who gets revealed.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The whole concept of the Pokemon Trainer would be gone then. You would just have three individual Pokemon and the Trainer would play no part.

That's why I think the Trainer would work best by:

1- flash animations
2- using the Pokeball (the symbol of Pokemon) as a weapon/ capture mechanic
3- Being able to choose any three Pokemon and slightly modifying their moveset.

Any of the three would better represent PT and Pokemon.

 

[Kirbeh]

R

That's easy.

Rsora

Roxas

 

[lizard1929]

Famitsu had torna and tomb raider reviews out now. Nothing on smash

 

[pupNapoleon]

Turns out the Sept 13th Direct rumor was indeed true. Let's look forward to Thursday and see who gets revealed.

This has not been confirmed at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai will put in a newcomer

But it has to be a character that starts with the letter of your first name. Who is it?

My name starts with a B.

You know what that means.

Spoiler

It's real good.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You guys realize that now that stamina is gone, you could still main Solo Zard and Solo Squirtle, right? It'll just be suboptimal. Besides, it's not like there aren't characters with useless moves out there, even among high tiers. Who uses Sheik's Side Special outside of very rare situations? And Pikachu's Skull Bash is rarely useful even as recovery.

It wouldn't solve the "Pokemon Trainer Wins" nitpick, but it's not like the characters would be so much better on their own. Rock Smash was rarely useful as it was - it was far too hard a commitment to depend on.

 

[Handy Man]

The whole concept of the Pokemon Trainer would be gone then. You would just have three individual Pokemon and the Trainer would play no part.

Right, as I mentioned in my post the previous page, I wasn't a fan of the trainer. Sakurai most likely included the trainer so that he can truly say "Everyone is Here". But it's a bummer for me since I only enjoyed using Charizard, I'm not a fan of using Squirtle or Ivysaur at all. Oh well, more power to those who do enjoy the trainer.

 

[Zinith]

I'll do one for each of my initials...

Mike Jones
Darouch
Leon (Star Fox)

 

[pupNapoleon]

You guys realize that now that stamina is gone, you could still main Solo Zard and Solo Squirtle, right? It'll just be suboptimal. Besides, it's not like there aren't characters with useless moves out there, even among high tiers. Who uses Sheik's Side Special outside of very rare situations? And Pikachu's Skull Bash is rarely useful even as recovery.

It wouldn't solve the "Pokemon Trainer Wins" nitpick, but it's not like the characters would be so much better on their own. Rock Smash was rarely useful as it was - it was far too hard to a commitment to depend on.

I do realize that. I also think that Jigglypuff getting more spotlight than Squirtle or Charizard is ludicrous.
Am I being petty? Maybe. But I also think Pokemon Trainer would be best served in other ways.

 

[Radical Bones]

so nothing from famitsu yet?

There's no Smash news in this edition.

 

[Kirbeh]

That's why I think the Trainer would work best by:

1- flash animations
2- using the Pokeball (the symbol of Pokemon) as a weapon/ capture mechanic
3- Being able to choose any three Pokemon and slightly modifying their moveset.

Any of the three would better represent PT and Pokemon.

I actually kind of wish Smash had something akin to V-Skills like in SFV. Just an extra action unique to each fighter. Switching Pokemon could be mapped to that for Pokemon Trainer allowing them to gain proper Down Specials. Moreover I'd really like to see what they come up with for other characters. Perhaps some mobility moves like the Long Jump for Mario, etc. Though at the same time that could also be a redundant mechanic given how varied special moves are already. idk, I think the idea would at least be interesting.

 

[KMDP]

Sakurai will put in a newcomer

But it has to be a character that starts with the letter of your first name. Who is it?

My name starts with Q so I'm screwed. Q from Street Fighter or the F-Zero one I guess

...
Knuckles! Wait...

Uh... Hm...
Krystal! ...Dang it!

Um...
Kafei! Yeah! That'll do.
Fun fact: "Xnsrv" vf npghnyyl cerggl pybfr gb zl erny anzr.
What can he do as a Fighter? Who knows!

R

That's easy.

Rsora

Ah, Rsora! The most beloved of characters.

I wonder if he likes fSteak?

 

[Koopaul]

With Echoes I'm a big proportions guy and frequently shut down people suggesting unworkable Echoes, but in this case I really don't think the proportions are all that different here. I don't see how the arms and legs being slightly "chubbier" would affect things at all, head shape isn't going to matter at all here (at most her head hurtbox would just be slightly different), and slightly shorter arms and legs would probably just require a slight animation adjustment if anything at all (which as seen with Dark Samus is on the table for Echoes). Another thing is people have to consider how Villager's actual moveset works, it's almost all projectiles and random weapons, Isabelle's slightly shorter limbs wouldn't affect how these moves work, at most the physical moves would have slightly less reach from her slightly shorter limbs, while Sakurai could still adjust animations to have the hitboxes still match if it's necessary? If Villager's moveset consisted of a bunch of physical fisticuffs moves or other complicated animations that require his longer limbs I could see it being a potential issue then, but as it stands when it's just him throwing random **** at people with fairly simple animations, I just don't see the issue.

Actually I figure you could make it work if Isabelle holds items at the tips of her nubs instead of the palms. Villager holds all the items in the palms of his hands. If you were to make Villagers hands invisible it might look similar to Isabelle where he'd be holding things on the nubs. Because Villagers arms aren't too much longer than Isabelle but he has hands. That's what changes the hitbox a bit.

 

[Fenriraga]

Sakurai will put in a newcomer

But it has to be a character that starts with the letter of your first name. Who is it?

My name starts with Q so I'm screwed. Q from Street Fighter or the F-Zero one I guess

K. Rool.

...Wait, crap.

Uh...

Ken.

 

[MBRedboy31]

That's why I think the Trainer would work best by:

1- flash animations
2- using the Pokeball (the symbol of Pokemon) as a weapon/ capture mechanic
3- Being able to choose any three Pokemon and slightly modifying their moveset.

Any of the three would better represent PT and Pokemon.

If Pokemon Trainer were more directly playable, they might be more or less representative of map actions like items and HM's, IMO. So, instead of any actual Pokemon in their moveset, they'd use the generic silhouette Pokemon that have been used by HM's like Surf and Fly for Gens 1-6.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Actually I figure you could make it work if Isabelle holds items at the tips of her nubs instead of the palms. Villager holds all the items in the palms of his hands. If you were to make Villagers hands invisible it might look similar to Isabelle where he'd be holding things on the nubs. Because Villagers arms aren't too much longer than Isabelle but he has hands. That's what changes the hitbox a bit.

The proposed argument against Isabelle doesn't make sense. Sakurai commented day one of Lucina that she was shorter.

 

[Peridorito]

I only like playing as Squirtle but I don't care that it is part of the trainer. This just means that it has one less move, it's not a big deal for me.

 

[blackghost]

No, they inherently dont get as much spotlight. The characters arent even individually labeled on the Smash website.
You know which characters get their own banner, trailers, and promotion? Echo fighters.
These are facts.

at least they get their own moves. fans of dark Samus are happy its her but honestly thats a bad echo. it doesnt fit who dark samus is or how it fights. Charizard, squirtle, and ivysaur are not the character the trainer is. saying sakurai doesnt care about them or cares about them less than echoes is just wrong. every pokemon has redone animations, T received a huge rework by removing stamina and making switching easier. the clear goal of the trainer is to use the three pokemon as a team as you would in their source games. if you want to play a singular pokemon of the three: now you can. in brawl you couldnt.

and to counter your website argument echoes wont even universally have t hier own icon on character selection screen does that make them somehow less significant?

 

[pupNapoleon]

If Pokemon Trainer were more directly playable, they might be more or less representative of map actions like items and HM's, IMO. So, instead of any actual Pokemon in their moveset, they'd use the generic silhouette Pokemon that have been used by HM's like Surf and Fly for Gens 1-6.

That would be akin to my number one, which is flash animations.
But I still think my number 2 and 3 are far more interesting.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Oh! I can do my other initials.

H for Hilda or Hector
L for Louie or Leon, I guess.
V for Vivian or Victini, I guess. I dunno