Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[monadoboy]

I think there’s some kind of perception that Smash is sort of like Nintendo’s red carpet event and being included is some kind of special honours thing.

I used to think that way too... then Corrin happened

Roy kinda kills that, though, and he appeared in the second Smash installment.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Exactly. I don't get why peoples hate Corrin.

He was there for adversiting FE. Yet peoples hate him, as if he's a curse. Seriously, what's wrong with just one character? He's also unique too!

He deserves some love!

Because he was the only DLC Nintendo newcomer.

People love third parties, but most of the speculation and most of the pull are the Nintendo characters.

People were getting hyped for their favorite characters to get their second chance as DLC: K. Rool, Paper Mario, Ridley, etc.

Then we only get one first party, and it’s another Fire Emblem character. A character from a series that got two newcomers in the base game, and already had a DLC character in Roy.
Not to mention the character was added for mostly marketing (corporate) purposes.

I’ve personally never gotten all worked up since Sakurai said the development team really wanted Corrin, and he let them since he chose the rest of the roster himself. I thought it was fair that the people who put all their time into this game got to have at least one character.

If Corrin was added alongside K. Rool and like maybe one other first party character, there would’ve been a lot less backlash.

 

[lizard1929]

Nothing's gonna change Corrin from being in Smash now, but I wish he was saved for this game because I share the sentiments that he was an advertisment character.

A lot of characters are included for advertisement but it doesn't mean they are bad for smash.
Just look at bayonetta who was advertisng a growing franchise and left a big impression on smash 4 fans.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Out of curiosity, is it true that Japan's also more of a humid heat vs a dry heat?

Japan is very humid during the summer. I lived in southern Kyushu for 6 years and trying to rid a bicycle to somewhere was equivalent of swimming in a pool of your own sweat when you were done.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Roy kinda kills that, though, and he appeared in the second Smash installment.

I came into Smash only knowing Mario and Pokemon so Roy was just another unfamiliar face at the time lol

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

A lot of characters are included for advertisement but it doesn't mean they are bad for smash.
Just look at bayonetta who was advertisng a growing franchise and left a big impression on smash 4 fans.

Bayonetta had her games released at the time.

 

[KMDP]

There hasn't been a single character in Smash that I've disliked the inclusion of. There are characters I dislike the exclusion of, but that's not the same thing.

Spoiler

I wonder how many people figured out that my last post was just me grasping at straws for Boshi

Speaking of Boshi...

We have Wario, Waluigi, Washi...

But where's Wapeach and Watoad?

I guess Captain Syrup can be "Wapeach", she did operate out of a castle in her first appearance.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Kirito from SAO confirmed for Smash

Kirito would beat the **** out of Bayonetta and take her place as the newest most despised Smash-character of all time.

Mainly because people wished it was Goku instead of the "Beater".

In all seriousness, I'd been wondering what a Smash-game featuring Anime-characters would look like... though I feel like that after Cartoon Network - Punchtime Explosion and other license-based mediocre Smash-clones, a concept like that has to be VERY competent to stand a chance living next to Ultimate.

At least people would be able to play as Goku in an officially made Smash-game.

 

[Zinith]

There hasn't been a single character in Smash that I've disliked the inclusion of. There are characters I dislike the exclusion of, but that's not the same thing.

Speaking of Boshi...

We have Wario, Waluigi, Washi...

But where's Wapeach and Watoad?

I guess Captain Syrup can be "Wapeach", she did operate out of a castle in her first appearance.

There was a planned "anti-Peach" intended for one of the Mario sports games back in the day. I think it was Mario Tennis 64

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The fact that FE went from 2 to 6 characters was my main issue, just Robin and Lucina would have been fine to represent its recent success. Roy I could just about accept because of fan demand, even if I had to stretch my tolerance level to do so, but Corrin I just couldn't. No series really deserves 4 newcomers in one game (Roy was practically completely reworked), let alone Fire Emblem which isn't one of the historically big guns, it tripled its character representation which was just absurd when I felt there where options out there that could have given more to the roster at that point.

I've long since let go of that though, I'm well past the idea of hating characters now or caring about overrepresentation, but that was how I felt back then, and it was why I didn't buy Corrin (and by extension Bayo). Ironically I'm actively hoping FE will be even more overrepresented now as I really want Black Knight as an echo.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There hasn't been a single character in Smash that I've disliked the inclusion of. There are characters I dislike the exclusion of, but that's not the same thing.

Speaking of Boshi...

We have Wario, Waluigi, Washi...

But where's Wapeach and Watoad?

I guess Captain Syrup can be "Wapeach", she did operate out of a castle in her first appearance.

Don’t forget the biggest spin-off character and enemy of the Smash speculations scene:

HII I’M WADAISY!!!

 

[osby]

The fact that FE went from 2 to 6 characters was my main issue, just Robin and Lucina would have been fine to represent its recent success. Roy I could just about accept because of fan demand, even if I had to stretch my tolerance level to do so, but Corrin I just couldn't. No series really deserves 4 newcomers in one game (Roy was practically completely reworked), let alone Fire Emblem which isn't one of the historically big guns, it tripled its character representation which was just absurd.

I've long since let go of that though, I'm well past the idea of hating characters now or caring about overrepresentation, but that was how I felt back then, and it was why I didn't buy Corrin (and by extension Bayo). Ironically I'm actively hoping FE will be even more overrepresented now as I really want Black Knight as an echo.

I agree, no series should get that many newco-*trips over Legend of Zelda in Melee*

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No series really deserves 4 newcomers in one game

LoZ got 4 newcomers in Melee, but given just how much more iconic the franchise and its characters are than Fire Emblem, people obviously wouldn't have minded that much.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I think FE should be done after Chrom. If the new FE game is a good game and there's been some time as well then I wouldn't care. Corrin just felt like he was hurried in.

 

[DJ3DS]

I personally like Corrin a lot. He may not be the best character in his own game, but he is pretty damn awesome in smash, imo.

Each to their own. I was personally astounded that a character with a chainsaw sword, transforming limbs and dragon wings could end up so bland.

The fact that FE went from 2 to 6 characters was my main issue, just Robin and Lucina would have been fine to represent its recent success. Roy I could just about accept because of fan demand, even if I had to stretch my tolerance level to do so, but Corrin I just couldn't. No series really deserves 4 newcomers in one game (Roy was practically completely reworked), let alone Fire Emblem which isn't one of the historically big guns, it tripled its character representation which was just absurd when I felt there where options out there that could have given more to the roster at that point.

I've long since let go of that though, I'm well past the idea of hating characters now or caring about overrepresentation, but that was how I felt back then, and it was why I didn't buy Corrin (and by extension Bayo). Ironically I'm actively hoping FE will be even more overrepresented now as I really want Black Knight as an echo.

Yeah, I feel this. To this day the only DLC I bought for the game was Mewtwo and Ryu.

I still don't "want" any FE characters but I have the characters I want now so it would be selfish to object. I didn't even mind Chrom showing up and that was before K Rool (most wanted) was confirmed a short while later.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Morning!

It says there is going to be an surprise on 13th September.

Switch game (I don't know which one) saying "The update of September 13 makes a surprising announcement! · · · There may be. Please look forward to it ~."
9/13 in Japan would be tomorrow.

Alright

Sounds like the direct announcement very soon to me.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I agree, no series should get that many newco-*trips over Legend of Zelda in Melee*

This is Melee we're talking about. Melee from 64. 64, the game with 12 characters. It's not fair to compare IMO. I'd still ***** and moan today if Zelda got 4 new characters.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

LoZ got 4 newcomers in Melee, but given just how much more iconic the franchise and its characters are than Fire Emblem, people obviously wouldn't have minded that much.

Yeah, and I’m wondering if that’s one of yhe things keeping the lid on Zelda lately.

True, they got 4 newcomers in Melee, but two were quick clones. And since then, Zelda’s traded out one clone for another and... gotten nothing else in the character department.

Zelda is also a massive console mover. Not on the level of Pokémon or Mario, but definitely moreso than Fire Emblem. Corrin was the addition that brought FE over Zelda’s representation, in terms of raw characters and in unique movesets.

Corrin really just got a lot of hate for bad timing. If he’d have been released now, peoply would grumble but not hate.

And this shows that Zelda is also due for another bunch of characters...

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I hope we get some sort of news confirmation tomorrow or this week. Visiting the website, working on color swaps, and working on detailing my roster during my down time helps but I can’t wait to see the new content.

On a semi-related note, a news blip came on the tv that’s Hokkaido had another level 4 earthquake. It’s pretty constant and obviously an indication that they are going through a lot.

In regards to Smash, I was thinking where it places among the other Nintendo library. Mario and Pokemon are easily the most financially successful and potentially the most visible. Zelda, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing are also series that do well with the general public. But where does Smash fit? Is it as commercially successful as both the entirety Pokémon and Mario? Is it as well-known to the general public?

I would argue that it’s not but it is special in its out way. I think it’s the most celebrated and revered and potentially the most marketable within the Nintendo library as it’s not only a crossover of Nintendo series but gaming as a whole.

 

[Zinith]

The reason Zelda got 4 newcomers in Melee was due to the rushed dev cycle. Really there was only plans for one as Sakurai considered Zelda and Sheik the same character at the time. Young Link and Ganondorf were easy clones to make...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I agree, no series should get that many newco-*trips over Legend of Zelda in Melee*

And as consequence it hasn't received a true newcomer since

I'm not really going to bother defending myself from 4 years ago, because like I said I don't care about all that jazz anymore, I was even pretty happy to see Chrom for his fans' sake. Speculation is too short to spend all of it being a negative nancy.

 

[MainJPW]

There was a planned "anti-Peach" intended for one of the Mario sports games back in the day. I think it was Mario Tennis 64

Source.

“Warupichi” would’ve used the same “Waru” naming convention as Wario and Waluigi. I’m now curious as to what she would’ve looked like.

 

[osby]

The reason Zelda got 4 newcomers in Melee was due to the rushed dev cycle. Really there was only plans for one as Sakurai considered Zelda and Sheik the same character at the time. Young Link and Ganondorf were easy clones to make...

Weidly enough, the reason FE got three newcomers was also not planning ahead. It was only supposed to get Chrom/Robin.

By the way, I wonder which franchise will cause fans screaming 'Sakurai bias!' this time.
Melee had none.
It was Star Fox and Kirby in Brawl.
And Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus in For.
Ultimate? Who knows. Echoes made people stop counting clones, we might have none.

 

[Arcadenik]

Fire Emblem which isn't one of the historically big guns

Maybe not in the West but I believe it was one of the historically big guns in Japan. Awakening just happened to be the “Ocarina of Time” of Fire Emblem so it went from two characters to six characters in SSB4... just like how Zelda went from one character to five characters in Melee.

 

[Zinith]

Source.

“Warupichi” would’ve used the same “Waru” naming convention as Wario and Waluigi. I’m now curious as to what she would’ve looked like.

Also Washi, in case you didn't know about Boshi's Japanese name

 

[Cosmic77]

The fact that FE went from 2 to 6 characters was my main issue, just Robin and Lucina would have been fine to represent its recent success. Roy I could just about accept because of fan demand, even if I had to stretch my tolerance level to do so, but Corrin I just couldn't. No series really deserves 4 newcomers in one game (Roy was practically completely reworked), let alone Fire Emblem which isn't one of the historically big guns, it tripled its character representation which was just absurd when I felt there where options out there that could have given more to the roster at that point.

I've long since let go of that though, I'm well past the idea of hating characters now or caring about overrepresentation, but that was how I felt back then, and it was why I didn't buy Corrin (and by extension Bayo). Ironically I'm actively hoping FE will be even more overrepresented now as I really want Black Knight as an echo.

I still have an issue with the number of characters, even moreso now that Marth/Roy/Lucina/Chrom is a thing. It just feels like Sakurai goes above and beyond to include as many FE characters as possible, regardless of if they're strictly promotional or how similar they may turn out.

I get that FE has a large cast of characters to choose from, but almost none of the seven we have currently in Smash were highly requested. I guess that's what bothers me the most; Smash 4 created this really depressing attitude toward FE newcomers. Everyone expects a new FE character, there's very little hype for said character, Sakurai adds the FE character, and no one except the dedicated FE fanbase is excited for the new character. It's even gotten to the point where a lot of people want to "get the new FE character out of the way" so they can look forward to the rest of the reveals.

 

[Pyra]

I literally have no character I DON'T want in Smash. I think I've said this for months now...

Same.
Well, I guess there are some characters that would make me cringe a bit but at this point I don't really care. Especially if another person on my wish list makes it in (ESPECIALLY Goemon, Geno, or Skull Kid).

 

[Danpal65]

Since we always seem to be facing rumours and "leaks" from all directions in this thread I thought PushDustIn's thread on Twitter was a really timely and valuable read. I totally agree and relate with his stance.

READ WHOLE THREAD:
I want to reply to some of the comments I've gotten over the past week that basically amount to "just let people have fun".
I've been doing this for 4 years. Remember that whole Ridley shadow debacle? Remember people saying Wolf is a lock for Smash for? pic.twitter.com/000FX5uKlS

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 11, 2018

 

[osby]

And as consequence it hasn't received a true newcomer since

I'm not really going to bother defending myself from 4 years ago, because like I said I don't care about all that jazz anymore, I was even pretty happy to see Chrom for his fans' sake. Speculation is too short to spend all of it being a negative nancy.

If it's any consolation, the chances of Fire Emblem getting a unique newcomer are slim to none.

Like I'd love Celica but she doesn't bring a lot to the table. Still would be nice getting her or Edelgard, though.

 

[Q-Long]

Year of the samurai. Samurai Shodown, Soul Calibur, and Sekiro : Shadows Die Twice!

Takamaru's turn right?

I think FE should be done after Chrom. If the new FE game is a good game and there's been some time as well then I wouldn't care. Corrin just felt like he was hurried in.

I would rather they remove Chrom and Lucina next game if they have to remove characters. Why Awakening needs 3 characters is beyond me. That being said the new FE looks beautiful.

 

[Pazzo.]

Echo characters are pretty great especially with characters like Link moving away from the original design, then you have Young Link to keep the classic look/Majora's Mask characteristics.

Ganondorf isn't even an Echo anymore but still has a more badass moveset than if he'd just been a 100% original newcomer.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Maybe not in the West but I believe it was one of the historically big guns in Japan. Awakening just happened to be the “Ocarina of Time” of Fire Emblem so it went from two characters to six characters in SSB4... just like how Zelda went from one character to five characters in Melee.

That is one thing people tend to forget. Regions do play a role at times. Just because it was not a game changer in the west does not mean it was a game changer.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If it's any consolation, the chances of Fire Emblem getting a unique newcomer are slim to none.

Like I'd loveCelica but she doesn't bring a lot to the table. Still would be nice getting her or Edelgard, though.

But like I said, I want Black Knight as an echo, so I'm not actually happy about that anymore

I'd also be accepting of Celica, she seems like she could be pretty cool. Really, that's just the mentality I'm going with this time, if the character is cool then I'm also cool with it, caring about all of that arbitrary nonsense is only making me enjoy things less.

 

[Sharkarat]

There hasn't been a single character in Smash that I've disliked the inclusion of. There are characters I dislike the exclusion of, but that's not the same thing.

Speaking of Boshi...

We have Wario, Waluigi, Washi...

But where's Wapeach and Watoad?

I guess Captain Syrup can be "Wapeach", she did operate out of a castle in her first appearance.

If they needed a "Wapeach", i would like them to just reintroduce Princess Shroob from Mario & Luigi.

 

[osby]

Same.
Well, I guess there are some characters that would make me cringe a bit but at this point I don't really care. Especially if another person on my wish list makes it in (ESPECIALLY Goemon, Geno, or Skull Kid).

Any character that would make me cringe is either in the game or deconfirmed. I'm not too fond of some fan favourites but at this point I just want a character that I can be hyped about.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Year of the samurai. Samurai Shodown, Soul Calibur, and Sekiro : Shadows Die Twice!

Takamaru's turn right?

I think he's an AT.

 

[Majora's Visage]

If DLC is a thing I can imagine either Byleth or Edelgard being a new FE rep next year, even though I think Fire Emblem representation is in a good place right now

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The other big Fire Emblem thing is that every character is a swordsman. Leaving aside the fact thay Lucy and Chrom are clones and Roy’s a semi, that’s still four unique sword kits.

Now Robin, Ike, Marth, and Corrin all play totally differently, and I’m not one of those people who complains that they all (save Robin) have a counter special. I think if we’d gotten characters like Hector (axe man) or Azura (lancer dancer lol), that may also have helped.

 

[P.Kat]

Considering Corrin is one of my mains, I never had a problem with her in fact, before we even knew about the ballot, I saw their character design for their new game, I told myself "I wish they could make it in Smash, but what's the chances of that happening." Little did I know...

Well, Sakurai always finds a way to surprise his fans.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The other big Fire Emblem thing is that every character is a swordsman. Leaving aside the fact thay Lucy and Chrom are clones and Roy’s a semi, that’s still four unique sword kits.

Now Robin, Ike, Marth, and Corrin all play totally differently, and I’m not one of those people who complains that they all (save Robin) have a counter special. I think if we’d gotten characters like Hector (axe man) or Azura (lancer dancer lol), that may also have helped.

An FE character is an FE character is an FE character. I don't really care how they play. They're still an FE character.