Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheYungLink]

I'm not into Minecraft but to act like it wouldn't be a HUGE deal to have one of the absolute most popular video games of the last decade in Smash is really short sighted.

I want Banjo too but to act like Minecraft wouldn't take precedent is silly

---

As a side note, I'm still real happy that K. Rool is in Smash, and I found this mash up that makes me hopeful that Crocodile Cacophony may get in, either as the original (it is short and fits in the ~2 minutes or less time frame that most songs are put into in Smash) or as a remix.

Edit: I wish there was a save drafts button on mobile, it's weird that it's only for desktop users, I ended up refreshing the page and posting an unfinished version of what I meant to post.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

And would you mind substantiating that claim? I remember a lot of people only being slightly disappointed, but not unhappy about Geno being a Mii Costume.


Did Richter get a spotlight moment alongside Simon on the same day or something?

Keyword "think." I actually didn't follow Wii U that closely but I do remember some reactions to the Geno outfit amounting to "That's it?" or "Nooo". Then again that could have just been initial impressions.

 

[Shroob]

I guess there's the fact that the newcomer may not get a Memory, or maybe any echoes might just get showcased another day?

I really doubt that.

After Simon and K.Rool came out the same day, they rapid fire'd Chrom, Richter and Dark Samus.

We can see from the code that Bowser and Tink were already in line after this character.

 

[Jetsurge]

Nintendo would have the direct on the 12th but the Apple keynote event is on the same day. So it will be on the 13th. Besides ninty already has something up their sleeves for the Apple event.

— ManMyles (@man_myles_) September 11, 2018

Apparently the Nintendo Direct will probably be on the 13th because Apple have a Keynote on the 12th and Nintendo will be showing off Mario Kart Tour there.

Or maybe

Spoiler

Angry Birds will be revealed at the Apple Keynote

 

[Zinith]

I don’t see Minecraft happening in Ultimate. I’m making no claims about it’s popularity or judgements on its fanbase. It just doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise Smash usually represents with Third-Parties. It’s neither a classic, iconic series nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history. Giving it content seems akin to adding stuff from Angry Birds. Could be wrong though.

Walked right into that one...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think most were necessarily happy about Mii costumes even back in Wii U.

Actually, they were. Mii costumes are severely popular. Yes, some would prefer playable over it. That's understandable. But they still are a huge download because of how great of an idea they were.

The Mii costumes that were disliked the most at best were due to bad proportions/making it looked like a gutted animal(or wearing their fur), and if that mattered that much, Isabelle wouldn't be a heavily downloaded costume either. People like the character, and them being in is still a very popular thing.

A character not being playable is surprisingly not that big of a deal. Yes, many characters have fans, but quite a few are very happy they're in the game as is. Isaac being cut as an AT hurt because he was gone. If he was even a costume, there's still be praise and love for it. Being 100% gone was a far bigger deal. There's few cases with extreme backlash, and it's generally exaggerated. The Waluigi thing? Two people went haywire at best. Ashley? I remember maybe a few at best. It's understandable, again, they aren't entirely popular decisions, but you're exaggerating it quite a bit. Him being a Mii Costume would get people very very happy because he's finally fully on a Nintendo system again. His last Nintendo appearance was a modified Minecraft costume, which isn't exactly the same thing as a clearly more faithful Mii costume.

 

[Koopaul]

Nintendo would have the direct on the 12th but the Apple keynote event is on the same day. So it will be on the 13th. Besides ninty already has something up their sleeves for the Apple event.

— ManMyles (@man_myles_) September 11, 2018

Apparently the Nintendo Direct will probably be on the 13th because Apple have a Keynote on the 12th and Nintendo will be showing off Mario Kart Tour there.

Who's this guy and how can we trust him?

 

[Idon]

Nintendo would have the direct on the 12th but the Apple keynote event is on the same day. So it will be on the 13th. Besides ninty already has something up their sleeves for the Apple event.

— ManMyles (@man_myles_) September 11, 2018

Apparently the Nintendo Direct will probably be on the 13th because Apple have a Keynote on the 12th and Nintendo will be showing off Mario Kart Tour there.

Is this confirmed, or just more speculation?

 

[RandomAce]

I don’t see Minecraft happening in Ultimate. I’m making no claims about it’s popularity or judgements on its fanbase. It just doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise Smash usually represents with Third-Parties. It’s neither a classic, iconic series nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history. Giving it content seems akin to adding stuff from Angry Birds. Could be wrong though.

I mostly agree with this.

I’ve always been iffy about Minecraft content in Smash. There’s usually very little correlation the game has with Nintendo and Sakurai in general, so I don’t find it likley that we’ll get any. At best, all I see are a couple of trophies.

 

[Shroob]

So an Echo could happen.

They could.

But at the same time, K,Rool and Simon were dropped on the same day, at the end of the PotD cycle for that week, with Richter/Chrom/Dark Samus getting shown off near instantly after that.

Tink and Bowser were lined up after this entity, so they had no intention of showing an echo directly after it the following week it seems.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Actually, that brings up a good point.


We know there are 3 empty spots that were meant to go live on Friday's PotD most likely.


It'd probably have been:

Character trailer
Character gameplay trailer showcase
Character Memories


This kind of rules out any echoes for that Direct, doesn't it?

That most likely means that character 68 will be shown in the Direct.
About that thing deconfirming an echo which woukd be shown alongside said newcomer, they had the week-end to rearrange the updates, so maybe they managed to push that echo back withouth altering the site (unlike what happened on Friday due to the short notice of the delay).
But personally, while an echo being shown isn't exactly deconfirmed, I never though it would happen. I always expected just a single newcomer reveal with just its trailer, without a Smash segment explaining its moves. Just like how characters for Smash For where revealed in regular Directs.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Walked right into that one...

Somehow I knew that would come up

 

[Heracr055]

What is this "absolute madman" meme involving Sakurai? I've seen it several times now

Edit: I'd be okay with Steve from Minecraft being included. And, since someone mentioned it earlier...I'd love a Legend of Dragoon/ Dark Cloud 2 rep

 

[Will]

It’s neither a classic

Depends on what you mean by "classic". If you mean by age, certainly true.

iconic series

Boi what you talkin' about? It represents modern sandboxes and pretty much the 2010s as a decade of gaming. Pretty iconic if you ask me.

nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history.

Minecraft and Crossplay is what brought Microsoft and Nintendo closer as friends. Crossplay itself is also a huge ****ing deal in the future of online play.

 

[osby]

I don’t see Minecraft happening in Ultimate. I’m making no claims about it’s popularity or judgements on its fanbase. It just doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise Smash usually represents with Third-Parties. It’s neither a classic, iconic series nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history. Giving it content seems akin to adding stuff from Angry Birds. Could be wrong though.

A franchise being new doesn't mean it's not iconic.

And even then, we got content from Bayonetta, Shovel Knight and Moster Hunter

 

[hazza5557]

I really hope Mario Kart for mobile is announced at the Apple Event!

 

[Danpal65]

Right... Calling bogus on this guy.

I know much about the September direct already but I’m trying to be as vague as I can so I won’t spoil for all of of you

— ManMyles (@man_myles_) September 8, 2018

 

[Will]

What is this "absolute madman" meme involving Sakurai? I've seen it several times niw

It's a phrase dude.

Spoiler

 

[Jetsurge]

Is this confirmed, or just more speculation?

Speculation. I doubt they will air on 9/11, Nintendo probably don't want to compete with Apple in the news on 9/12 and they'll probably be showing Mario Kart there so that leaves the 13th

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I still think the Minecraft content is something that must have happened last minute, Nintendo and Microsoft have only gotten really tight just recently, and with how eager Microsoft have been about having representation in Smash I could see them having offered it along the way. Luckily for them Minecraft is super simple, so whether it's a stage, an AT or whatever else it might be it'd be easy to add it in. Minecraft can also be represented just fine without a character I feel, no doubt about it being big enough for one of course, but at the end of the day the game is really all about the world and not the characters.

I don't think Microsoft will get a character in the base game, late 2015 just seems like it was too early when you consider how their partnership has blossomed up some time later. I'm absolutely certain they'll get a character as DLC though, whether that be Banjo, Steve or even Master Chief.

 

[Danpal65]

Speculation. I doubt they will air on 9/11, Nintendo probably don't want to compete with Apple in the news on 9/12 and they'll probably be showing Mario Kart there so that leaves the 13th

Apple and Nintendo fans are two very different audiences. Not really sure they'd be competing.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok. Lemme just say one thing.

Minecraft content is about the only thing close to a lock as is due to it basically being severely iconic to the point that there's no reason to go to Microsoft and not get it too. It earned its way into Smash easily.

This line of thought?
As a community, we need to stop doing that.

Just because a third-party franchise is "iconic" does not mean it will get content.

If it weren't for Verge saying there would be Minecraft content, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that without any shadow of a doubt, Minecraft content would be featured.. And no, "it's Minecraft" isn't a valid reason. At all.

Otherwise, where's our token Call of Duty content? Or FIFA (and I mean more than just a generic soccer ball that can't really be tied to any specific series)? Or Grand Theft Auto?
These are three of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, just under Mario and Pokémon. So certainly, if Minecraft getting content is a lock solely because "it's Minecraft", then we're getting content from them because "it's Call of Duty/FIFA/Grand Theft Auto", right?

 

[Mutsukki]

Apple and Nintendo fans are two very different audiences. Not really sure they'd be competing.

Eh, on that front he's pretty much right. Nintendo will want people to see the Apple Keynotes for their own announcement, so it wouldn't make any sense to run another event parallel to it.

 

[Shroob]

Ok. Lemme just say one thing.




This line of thought?
As a community, we need to stop doing that.

Just because a third-party franchise is "iconic" does not mean it will get content.

If it weren't for Verge saying there would be Minecraft content, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that without any shadow of a doubt, Minecraft content would be featured.. And no, "it's Minecraft" isn't a valid reason. At all.

Otherwise, where's our token Call of Duty content? Or FIFA (and I mean more than just a generic soccer ball that can't really be tied to any specific series)? Or Grand Theft Auto?
These are three of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, just under Mario and Pokémon. So certainly, if Minecraft getting content is a lock solely because "it's Minecraft", then we're getting content from them because "it's Call of Duty/FIFA/Grand Theft Auto", right?

Is it wrong I'd totally be down for Niko Bellic?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

A franchise being new doesn't mean it's not iconic.

And even then, we got content from Bayonetta, Shovel Knight and Moster Hunter

All three of those series have close ties with Nintendo though. And yeah, Minecraft is iconic, but not in the classic sense that Third-Parties have been so far. Not saying it can’t happen, just don’t see it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok. Lemme just say one thing.

I said it too vaguely then; If we get Microsoft content in it, I consider Minecraft content among it a lock. Not going to argue if I'm right or wrong or get into it. I'm solely clarifying what I meant since I conveyed it poorly.

Verg had nothing to do with this, btw. I always thought it was the sole guaranteed content if any. I believe there will be more beyond it, but it's the only I honestly am confident in among Microsoft content that is a lock.

I noticed the Verg point later, but wanted to note how it was irrelevant to my thoughts.

 

[Danpal65]

Ok. Lemme just say one thing.




This line of thought?
As a community, we need to stop doing that.

Just because a third-party franchise is "iconic" does not mean it will get content.

If it weren't for Verge saying there would be Minecraft content, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that without any shadow of a doubt, Minecraft content would be featured.. And no, "it's Minecraft" isn't a valid reason. At all.

Otherwise, where's our token Call of Duty content? Or FIFA (and I mean more than just a generic soccer ball that can't really be tied to any specific series)? Or Grand Theft Auto?
These are three of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, just under Mario and Pokémon. So certainly, if Minecraft getting content is a lock solely because "it's Minecraft", then we're getting content from them because "it's Call of Duty/FIFA/Grand Theft Auto", right?

I feel like this is a case of Whataboutism.

Minecraft really isn't comparable to FIFA, COD or GTA. For one it isn't based on real people or events. It also is targeted and a more family friendly audience and matches more the aesthetic art style of both Nintendo and Smash.

Now I'm most certainly not saying Minecraft content is a lock, heck I think Verge is full of it, but to say that it's place in the industry, positive reception on Nintendo hardware and the overall appeal of the game isn't reason to at least consider the IP for Smash is a load of nonsense.

Eh, on that front he's pretty much right. Nintendo will want people to see the Apple Keynotes for their own announcement, so it wouldn't make any sense to run another event parallel to it.

We don't have any official confirmation to assume we'd see Nintendo content though do we? No "tune into the Apple Event" or a Retweet from Nintendo?

 

[Deleted member]

Is it wrong I'd totally be down for Niko Bellic?

Yes, because he ain't Big Smoke. :V

 

[Will]

If it weren't for Verge saying there would be Minecraft content, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that without any shadow of a doubt, Minecraft content would be featured.. And no, "it's Minecraft" isn't a valid reason. At all.

Nah, I still would've believed it dude. "it's Minecraft" is pretty dumb, but IMO it still counts. It's a shortened way of saying that it's a global phenomenon. Arguably the biggest thing Microsoft owns for video games. It's the Cloud of Microsoft. I always believed in 2014 that Cloud would get in first because he was just that big and unable to be ignored at the time that he had a priority over the likes of Geno. Look how that turned out. I'm sticking with my guts for the same reason. Can't stop won't stop.

 

[ZephyrZ]

For the record, I don't think Banjo-Kazooie is an impossibility. I just don't want to see people get their hopes up just to see them crushed again, as I've seen with so many other character supporters before.

I don’t see Minecraft happening in Ultimate. I’m making no claims about it’s popularity or judgements on its fanbase. It just doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise Smash usually represents with Third-Parties. It’s neither a classic, iconic series nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history. Giving it content seems akin to adding stuff from Angry Birds. Could be wrong though.

Angry Birds was a little bit of a fad. I mean, it outlived the likes of Flappy Bird but you still don't really see much merchandise for it anymore, yet if you walk into the toys section of your local Walmart I can guarantee you there will still be a foam Diamond Sword for sale.

 

[Essora]

The Smash reveal season has been pretty interesting so far though. When it came to the Brawl and Smash 4 reveal seasons, we've had this super unpredictable air of "anything can happen", with surprise reveals, and a lot of characters that sort of got a "Nobody really asked for this, but that's neat" reaction, like Wii Fit Trainer. Ultimate, however? Mostly highly-requested and highly-expected characters. Does this necessarily mean Nintendo is listening more to fan requests than the previous games? Hard to say. It sure seems like that. I think that's sort of why a lot of character supporters for the highly requested characters (Geno, Skull Kid, etc), seem bolder and more certain than they have in previous games. Even though the path we've been on so far has been mostly stuff the community has been asking for, I bet Nintendo has a few curveballs to throw our way, as they always do.

 

[Shroob]

Imagine if we hear nothing by the 13th...


Oh man the entire community is going to turn in on itself.

 

[Mutsukki]

Anybody else think we might potentially be skipping music update tomorrow? They did it once for the direct that was the day after.

 

[osby]

Imagine if we hear nothing by the 13th...


Oh man the entire community is going to turn in on itself.

Entire community is already collapsing on itslef due to the high amount of hype.

We are one week of silence away from turning into a black hole.

 

[Dee Dude]

The Smash reveal season has been pretty interesting so far though. When it came to the Brawl and Smash 4 reveal seasons, we've had this super unpredictable air of "anything can happen", with surprise reveals, and a lot of characters that sort of got a "Nobody really asked for this, but that's neat" reaction, like Wii Fit Trainer. Ultimate, however? Mostly highly-requested and highly-expected characters. Does this necessarily mean Nintendo is listening more to fan requests than the previous games? Hard to say. It sure seems like that. I think that's sort of why a lot of character supporters for the highly requested characters (Geno, Skull Kid, etc), seem bolder and more certain than they have in previous games. Even though the path we've been on so far has been mostly stuff the community has been asking for, I bet Nintendo has a few curveballs to throw our way, as they always do.

Agreed, there will be more massively requested characters added but my only issue is that people are too over confident in the amount of newcomers requested.
I expect at least 3 or 4 left with one of them being a WTF/oddball choice since Sakurai likes surprises.

When Sakurai said “don’t expect too many newcomers” he didn’t mean “expect slightly less newcomers” he means too many.

 

[Idon]

Anybody else think we might potentially be skipping music update tomorrow? They did it once for the direct that was the day after.

I hope not.
I'd really like for them to just shuffle the next week's track to this week's and have the newcomer track be next week in its place.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This will be the community if nothing is announced tomorrow or Wednesday and nothing shows on the 13th.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Anybody else think we might potentially be skipping music update tomorrow? They did it once for the direct that was the day after.

Only to reveal the music a bit later to coincide with the direct.

Unless you meant to do the same thing, then yes, I think they could.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Also....

I don't see Shovel Knight fans complaining about him being an Assist.

Yes. Because that's still amazing as an option. Not as good as playable directly. It means he finally showed up outside of a blocky costume(in Minecraft Switch). Take a look at how people felt about the Geno costume.

I think the difference here really is that no one was actually expecting Geno or Shovel Knight to be playable, just hoping.

Compare to how fans reacted to Ashley's assist trophy or Ridley's Smash 4 boss fight. A lot of them were crushed because they got themselves excited over a character that didn't happen. If people start expecting Banjo, they'll be really let down if he only gets in as a trophy, assist or costume.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Ok. Lemme just say one thing.




This line of thought?
As a community, we need to stop doing that.

Just because a third-party franchise is "iconic" does not mean it will get content.

If it weren't for Verge saying there would be Minecraft content, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that without any shadow of a doubt, Minecraft content would be featured.. And no, "it's Minecraft" isn't a valid reason. At all.

Otherwise, where's our token Call of Duty content? Or FIFA (and I mean more than just a generic soccer ball that can't really be tied to any specific series)? Or Grand Theft Auto?
These are three of the most successful gaming franchises of all time, just under Mario and Pokémon. So certainly, if Minecraft getting content is a lock solely because "it's Minecraft", then we're getting content from them because "it's Call of Duty/FIFA/Grand Theft Auto", right?

But neighter Call of Duty, FIFA or GTA are feasable for Smash.
CoD and GTA use real guns, and FIFA uses real life players, so licesing those content for Smash is impossible.
Minecraft on the other hand doesn't have any of those problems, and being an iconic series that is heavely associated with Nintendo in Japan surely does help. It helped Monster Hunter and it helped Shovel Knight. Minecraft is in the same place as those two, especially since it is extremely recognizable unlike a generic soldier from CoD or gangster from GTA.

And even if someone makes another paragon with othe rpopular games of the moment like Fortnite, Minecraft proved to be a top selling and relevant game for a DECADE, which inspired a whole new type of sand box game. Fortnite's fame is already going down according to the trends, while Minecraft's influence can be seen even in some games made by huge companies (Dragon Quest builders comes to mind).
Besides no one in their right mind would dismiss Minecraft when this is an actual OFFICIAL thing

Where is muh CoD or GTA Nintendo console now?