Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cause they'd be doing a deal with Microsoft, who own Banjo.

A "one thing leads to the other" scenario basically.

Which of course means nothing, heh. It just means they wanted to license Minecraft because, I dunno, it's a hugely iconic series and popular worldwide?

Plus, it does not "lead to that.". The reality is, if Sakurai goes to Microsoft to license something, he's going to license what he wants. If that includes B&K, it will include it. Minecraft content is about the only thing close to a lock as is due to it basically being severely iconic to the point that there's no reason to go to Microsoft and not get it too. It earned its way into Smash easily. B&K absolutely can happen, but that's a separate decision. It's definitely not common sense though. That's implying Sakurai will go to Microsoft to get B&K for sure. It has a reasonable chance, of course. I honestly think they could be playable, but on the other hand, I could see them as DLC instead where Minecraft is the only base content(not saying playable Steve? is that likely, mind you). We don't know what'll happen. We could get two sets of Microsoft content. It could all be DLC. It could all be base roster. Etc.

You genuinely believe Sakurai would only ask for Minecraft content?

Yeah, we do. It's because that is enough of a reason alone to go to Microsoft, to get some profilic 3rd party content. He only went to Ubisoft for Rayman as a Trophy, after all. It's more than enough reason on its own merits.

 

[Danpal65]

I think some people here severely underestimate how popular and iconic Minecraft is. A personal dislike for the game, one that I do not share, also isn't reason to say that most Smash fans would be upset/hate it being in Ultimate.

Whilst I don't think Steve will make it as a playable character I could absolutely see a Minecraft stage and a Creeper AT as representation of one of the best selling games of all time.

 

[Shroob]

Like, I get it.

Vergeben's the most trustworthy leaker as of right now and he said Minecraft content.


But he never said Banjo+Kazooie content.


For all we know, Microsoft could have said yes to Minecraft but no to BK, and you're a fool if you think Sakurai would turn down a series as MASSIVE as Minecraft getting greenlit to be in Smash.



Of course I want BK in Smash, but Minecraft being in =/= BK being in.

 

[Koopaul]

You know, I'm thinking about Ridley in Smash Wii U. I remember his reveal and Sakurai talking about how he can be KO'd and give you a point to your score. And how he can join you as an ally in the fight, and all the elaborate attacks he had. It was clear that this was his way of giving us Ridley as almost a fighter since he had difficulty making him a regular fighter or didn't think he could pull it off.

It makes me think about a lot of Assist Trophies in Ultimate that seem to have a variety of complex movements and can be KO'd. I think this is, once again his attempt at giving people Almost Fighters instead of outright ignoring fan favorites.

 

[Will]

It's still fascinating to me that Minecraft is still getting new content. I never even heard of the new Aquatic updates but apparently it's been a thing for almost a year now or something and being updated frequently?

making me feel hella nostalgic.

 

[Danpal65]

You know, I'm thinking about Ridley in Smash Wii U. I remember his reveal and Sakurai talking about how he can be KO'd and give you a point to your score. And how he can join you as an ally in the fight, and all the elaborate attacks he had. It was clear that this was his way of giving us Ridley as almost a fighter since he had difficulty making him a regular fighter or didn't think he could pull it off.

It makes me think about a lot of Assist Trophies in Ultimate that seem to have a variety of complex movements and can be KO'd. I think this is, once again his attempt at giving people Almost Fighters instead of outright ignoring fan favorites.

Oh absolutely. The decisions Sakurai has been making have been towards representing characters that fans love and wanting to give them the most enjoyable exposure he can. This does mean they can't all be playable, but the love and care he puts into them shouldn't be glossed over.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Maybe I am optimistic but I just don't see it happening without Banjo. Again this is assuming what Verg said is true.

 

[Shroob]

It's still fascinating to me that Minecraft is still getting new content. I never even heard of the new Aquatic updates but apparently it's been a thing for almost a year now or something?

making me feel hella nostalgic.

Minecraft is kinda like a 3D Dwarf Fortress.

It'll be updated forever more or less.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Adding Minecraft content without adding in Banjo-Kazooie would be like adding in Final Fantasy content without Geno.

Wait a minute...

 

[Danpal65]

Maybe I am optimistic but I just don't see happening without Banjo. Again this is assuming what Verg said is true.

Optimistic wouldn't be the word I'd use.

In regards to "again this is assuming what Verge said is true." He has said nothing about B&K, so I'm really not sure where this line of thinking is coming from.

 

[Will]

Adding Minecraft content without adding in Banjo-Kazooie would be like adding in Final Fantasy content without Geno.

Wait a minute...

So you're saying Banjo for Smash 6?

 

[Shroob]

Optimistic wouldn't be the word I'd use.

In regards to "again this is assuming what Verge said is true." He has said nothing about B&K, so I'm really not sure where this line of thinking is coming from.

It's a cause and effect mindset, and a rather flawed one at that.

I get his logic.

"Because Minecraft content, means Microsoft, which means BK!"


But you can see how faulty that line of reasoning is at just a glance. Yes, Minecraft means Microsoft, but it does not mean BK.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So you're saying Banjo for Smash 6?

He'd probably be ideal for DLC

 

[Will]

He'd probably be ideal for DLC

So was Wolf and Geno. oops.
Well, to be fair, Ultimate and the Switch's lifespan will be far longer.

 

[RandomAce]

To be honest, I’m not even sure why Sakurai even wanted to get Minecraft content in the first place. I just see them getting a couple of trophies like with Rayman. The reason why I see people making the connection with Banjo is simply put, Banjo was a popular character during the ballot.

It’s likely that Banjo scored high enough for Sakurai to notice and decide to add in to game because of that, and when they went to Microsoft for negotiations, it’s possible he may have also been able to obtain the rights to use something like a creeper for a trophy. Similar to how he was able to get the rights to use Rayman and Commander Video for trophies.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Adding Minecraft content without adding in Banjo-Kazooie would be like adding in Final Fantasy content without Geno.

Wait a minute...

...We did get a Geno costume, so the analogy mayyyyyy not work as well as you think. I don't disagree with your point, though.

> MFW when I work at Burger King and the BK wording catches my attention despite obviously what the content is

 

[Will]

To be honest, I’m not even sure why Sakurai even wanted to get Minecraft content in the first place.

Probably because it's one of the biggest games of all time currently. This is assuming Sakurai actually went with it, the absolute madman.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Adding Minecraft content without adding in Banjo-Kazooie would be like adding in Final Fantasy content without Geno.

Wait a minute...

We actually did get Geno though LMAO

 

[Zinith]

This is all assuming Microsoft content is even coming...

 

[Jetsurge]

I think some people here severely underestimate how popular and iconic Minecraft is. A personal dislike for the game, one that I do not share, also isn't reason to say that most Smash fans would be upset/hate it being in Ultimate.

Whilst I don't think Steve will make it as a playable character I could absolutely see a Minecraft stage and a Creeper AT as representation of one of the best selling games of all time.

But do you really think Sakurai would go to Microsoft one of the biggest companies in the world just for a stage and assist and not bother getting Banjo? I don't.

 

[ZephyrZ]

...We did get a Geno costume, so the analogy mayyyyyy not work as well as you think. I don't disagree with your point, though.

We actually did get Geno though LMAO

Yes, but only as a costume. Would Banjo-Kazooie fans really be satisfied if all they got was a Banjo mii costume?

 

[Will]

This is all assuming Microsoft content is even coming...

Meh, I think it's possible. They're kinda rubbing it in Sony's face about the whole crossplay thing like they're best buds. And Minecraft is mostly the reason for that, so I think that plays in a lot with the budding relationship.

But do you really think Sakurai would go to Microsoft one of the biggest companies in the world just for a stage and assist and not bother getting Banjo? I don't.

I do, because anything is possible. He may go in and grab whatever he wants like he did with Castlevania. Hey may not get anything at all. Who knows?

Yes, but only as a costume. Would Banjo-Kazooie fans really be satisfied if all they got was a Banjo mii costume?

I don't see Shovel Knight fans complaining about him being an Assist.

 

[Shroob]

And here I am still in the mindset that the next time we get a newcomer 'dump' will be our final one.

We'll 'probably' get our next Smash Direct announced in this Direct, maybe for mid-October if I had to guess, and I legit cannot see a world where after the next Smash announcement that we'd get more announcements.


If Sakurai wants to reveal the entire roster before launch(Probably to combat leaks if I had to guess), I really feel like we'll get our 1 mystery newcomer this coming Direct(Skull Kid/Incineroar), and the next Direct will be the Smash one with the final character dump.

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Yes, but only as a costume. Would Banjo-Kazooie fans really be satisfied if all they got was a Banjo mii costume?

That wasn't the point of your joke though. Any who of course people won't be satisfied. We either get him as a character or nothing.

 

[Danpal65]

Oh hey Zinith just noticed you're part of the Rankings Team, congrats!

And here I am still in the mindset that the next time we get a newcomer 'dump' will be our final one.

We'll 'probably' get our next Smash Direct announced in this Direct, maybe for mid-October if I had to guess, and I legit cannot see a world where after the next Smash announcement that we'd get more announcements.


If Sakurai wants to reveal the entire roster before launch(Probably to combat leaks if I had to guess), I really feel like we'll get our 1 mystery newcomer this coming Direct(Skull Kid/Incineroar), and the next Direct will be the Smash one with the final character dump.

That seems reasonable to me. Newcomer and an echo or two in this upcoming Direct and then a few more to round it all out in a Smash Direct end of October, beginning of November.

 

[Will]

And here I am still in the mindset that the next time we get a newcomer 'dump' will be our final one.

We'll 'probably' get our next Smash Direct announced in this Direct, maybe for mid-October if I had to guess, and I legit cannot see a world where after the next Smash announcement that we'd get more announcements.


If Sakurai wants to reveal the entire roster before launch(Probably to combat leaks if I had to guess), I really feel like we'll get our 1 mystery newcomer this coming Direct(Skull Kid/Incineroar), and the next Direct will be the Smash one with the final character dump.

I'd go for November if I was a marketing lad, that'd make the anticipation mega high. or maybe i'm just dumb

 

[Nonno Umby]

To be honest, I’m not even sure why Sakurai even wanted to get Minecraft content in the first place. I just see them getting a couple of trophies like with Rayman. The reason why I see people making the connection with Banjo is simply put, Banjo was a popular character during the ballot.

It’s likely that Banjo scored high enough for Sakurai to notice and decide to add in to game because of that, and when they went to Microsoft for negotiations, it’s possible he may have also been able to obtain the rights to use something like a creeper for a trophy. Similar to how he was able to get the rights to use Rayman and Commander Video for trophies.

Because it's one if the greatest gaming phenomenon of the last decade. People like to talk about how games like Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 revolutionased a genre, but Minecraft completely revamped the sand box. And it is notable that in Japan, where the game is actually very popular, Minecraft is heavely associated with Nintendo since Xbox has an extremely small market there. Heck, Nintendo even released a limited edition Creeper New 2DS XL, it should say something about it.


And yeah, the paragon with Cloud and Geno is similar. Altough we got Geno, it was as a Mii Costume, not a playable character. That was Cloud.
Wouldn't be different if Minecraft got content and Banjo was a Mii Costume, or just a regular trophy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, but only as a costume. Would Banjo-Kazooie fans really be satisfied if all they got was a Banjo mii costume?

Yes. Because that's still amazing as an option. Not as good as playable directly. It means he finally showed up outside of a blocky costume(in Minecraft Switch). Take a look at how people felt about the Geno costume.

Though my point was that we still got a form of Geno anyway. It means he was a possibility, one that also the ballot helped with. So for instance, we could get playable Steve?, Minecraft Stage, Creeper AT, and a Banjo & Kazooie costume and it'd be pretty much what happened with FFVII and Cloud. Well, you'd need one more Mii costume to be exact, but eh. You get the idea.

As I said before, I don't think we're going to get anything less than B&K playable if they show up, but I can't discount the possibility either.

 

[Shroob]

Oh hey Zinith just noticed you're part of the Rankings Team, congrats!



That seems reasonable to me. Newcomer and an echo or two in this upcoming Direct and then a few more to round it all out in a Smash Direct end of October, beginning of November.

I'm questioning if we'll even get an Echo.

The datamined numbering seem to line up with a single newcomer, unless both them and the echo don't get a Memories page.

 

[Danpal65]

But do you really think Sakurai would go to Microsoft one of the biggest companies in the world just for a stage and assist and not bother getting Banjo? I don't.

You say that as if getting to use the Minecraft IP isn't a big deal and not worth something? You have to remember Banjo and Kazooie aren't everything Microsoft has and may not meet the ideas that Sakurai has for the game.

You can't just dismiss the idea of Sakurai negotiating with Microsoft for Minecraft if the reason is "but Banjo is like by Smash fans more, so why would he waste his time otherwise."

 

[TechPowah]

I'm cool with Shovel Knight as an AT despite thinking he could definitely be playable at some point
i'd be cool with Banjo as a costume

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

Yes. Because that's still amazing as an option. Not as good as playable directly. It means he finally showed up outside of a blocky costume(in Minecraft Switch). Take a look at how people felt about the Geno costume.

Though my point was that we still got a form of Geno anyway. It means he was a possibility, one that also the ballot helped with. So for instance, we could get playable Steve?, Minecraft Stage, Creeper AT, and a Banjo & Kazooie costume and it'd be pretty much what happened with FFVII and Cloud. Well, you'd need one more Mii costume to be exact, but eh. You get the idea.

As I said before, I don't think we're going to get anything less than B&K playable if they show up, but I can't discount the possibility either.

I don't think most were necessarily happy about Mii costumes even back in Wii U.

 

[Shroob]

Actually, that brings up a good point.


We know there are 3 empty spots that were meant to go live on Friday's PotD most likely.


It'd probably have been:

Character trailer
Character gameplay trailer showcase
Character Memories


This kind of rules out any echoes for that Direct, doesn't it?

 

[Will]

I don't think most were necessarily happy about Mii costumes even back in Wii U.

And would you mind substantiating that claim? I remember a lot of people only being slightly disappointed, but not unhappy about Geno being a Mii Costume.

Actually, that brings up a good point.


We know there are 3 empty spots that were meant to go live on Friday's PotD most likely.


It'd probably have been:

Character trailer
Character gameplay trailer showcase
Character Memories


This kind of rules out any echoes for that Direct, doesn't it?

Did Richter get a spotlight moment alongside Simon on the same day or something?

 

[Koopaul]

And here I am still in the mindset that the next time we get a newcomer 'dump' will be our final one.

By 'dump' you mean 2 more unique newcomers as well as some echo fighters? Because after this Direct reveals inevitably 1 newcomer, that's all I think we'll have left.

 

[Shroob]

And would you mind substantiating that claim? I remember a lot of people only being slightly disappointed, but not unhappy about Geno being a Mii Costume.


Did Richter get a spotlight moment alongside Simon on the same day or something?

I honestly have no idea.

Richter came out the week after Simon so I'm unsure.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I don’t see Minecraft happening in Ultimate. I’m making no claims about it’s popularity or judgements on its fanbase. It just doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise Smash usually represents with Third-Parties. It’s neither a classic, iconic series nor one with close ties to Nintendo’s history. Giving it content seems akin to adding stuff from Angry Birds. Could be wrong though.

 

[Danpal65]

Actually, that brings up a good point.


We know there are 3 empty spots that were meant to go live on Friday's PotD most likely.


It'd probably have been:

Character trailer
Character gameplay trailer showcase
Character Memories


This kind of rules out any echoes for that Direct, doesn't it?

I guess there's the fact that the newcomer may not get a Memory, or maybe any echoes might just get showcased another day?

 

[Will]

I honestly have no idea.

Richter came out the week after Simon so I'm unsure.

So an Echo could happen.

 

[Deoxys911]

Maybe I am optimistic but I just don't see it happening without Banjo. Again this is assuming what Verg said is true.

But what do you think about Waluigi's chances of getting in?