Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zippo]

Famitsu is leaking tomorrow, so we'll know whether or not that's BS soon enough.

 

[Mutsukki]

I think Rocket Raccoon was asking about what's literally missing from the website... Like, the code and number stuff everyone's talking about...

I actually want to know about it too

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Direct character was probably gonna be someone who has/had a following, but a silent one or one that people didn't think about as much.

A darkhorse, essentially.

I smell Hot(or maybe it's cold) coffee go on I'm listening.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Personally, I'd say Rayman, but he's a pipedream

Sounds like skinny Blonde dudes with giant swords.
Just saying. Proves nothing. But....it happened.

 

[Potato_]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Direct character was probably gonna be someone who has/had a following, but a silent one or one that people didn't think about as much.

A darkhorse, essentially.

Which honestly could've been Skull Kid before LoZ.

Bandana Dee kinda fits this? Maybe Rayman?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Direct character was probably gonna be someone who has/had a following, but a silent one or one that people didn't think about as much.

A darkhorse, essentially.

So...who would be a dark horse? Can’t think of someone that nobody has ever considered or believed could make it in other than Daisy...who made it in

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can't understand how anyone can be impatient for anymore newcomers when we already got ones like K. Rool and Ridley...

That there should be enough to require patience.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Direct character was probably gonna be someone who has/had a following, but a silent one or one that people didn't think about as much.

A darkhorse, essentially.

............ Agro confirmed?

 

[Darkraid]

View attachment 163263


If Skull Kid is revealed, then going off of just what Vergeben and Loz have said(+Shadow), this could be the final roster.


I'm completely down for it.

Loz teased Isaac

Pretty sure Dixie and Impa might make it as echoes

 

[Shroob]

Personally? I think the best list to go off of is what media franchises have done scored the best ever.
Forget gaming on itself, lets talk about the franchises that made an impact as far as media as a whole (and are still gaming originated).
This means games like Minecraft, Angry Birds, Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts (as Disney overall), Tomb Raider... theres only two dozen or so gaming franchises that have raised over 3 billion in franchise profits. Numerically, these are the biggest crowd pleasers.

On the flip side, yet not... King K Rool and Ridley were highly wanted by Smash scenes. Yes. And the next character most wanted after that is quite frankly immensely less comparable. Just because those two made it in does not mean we can just take the threads with high characters and say they made it in. Months ago, Decidueye was the Pokemon frontrunner. Then, two leakers said it was Incineroar, and Decidueye is as good as blacklisted. If that doesnt tell you the power of the speculation scene reverberating its own ideas, nothing will.

I really fail to see why this is a bad thing to be frank.


We're going to know the ENTIRE roster before launch anyway.


If the last Smash Direct is in October/November, well we're almost there anyway; what's the hurt of basing our guesses as to the reveals from seemingly pseudo-credible sources?

Ridley's reveal wasn't any less amazing even though he leaked all the way back in May. Simon's reveal was still amazing despite Vergeben+Nintendo's own screwup.

 

[ChronoBound]

View attachment 163263


If Skull Kid is revealed, then going off of just what Vergeben and Loz have said(+Shadow), this could be the final roster.


I'm completely down for it.

If we get two more slots, this character selection screen becomes a nice, neat square. If I had to guess who would fill out this square (the remaining two slots), it would be one more non-echo (Banjo-Kazooie, Bandanna Dee, Chorus Kids, Isaac, or Elma, its anyone's game and a true battle royale for this slot), and Octoling for the last remaining echo slot (who would be one of two slots to fill out the bottom row). Its possible Jeanne gets the last echo slot too though.

Banjo could have potentially be in if Microsoft is really involved with Ultimate since Vergeben did say one of his sources told him there is Minecraft content in Ultimate. There is also other weird phenomenon such as Banjo and Halo characters appearing as part of a skin pack for the Nintendo console versions for Minecraft and a trailer dedicated to Xbox and Nintendo hardware crossplay at E3.

 

[Arcanir]

You know, with how speculation is going I'm starting to wonder if we're going to get another Robin/Lucina or Cloud situation. Historically whenever we get dead set in what we expect out of the roster there's that one dark horse character that people don't suspect that gets revealed and throws us for a loop, and currently we're definitely in that cycle since we're discussing a very selective group of characters. So I'm curious if we'll have history repeat itself here like before, particularly since some like Skull Kid still have skepticism around them.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I can't understand how anyone can be impatient for anymore newcomers when we already got ones like K. Rool and Ridley...

That there should be enough to require patience.

People are satisfied with news for a week at most and then we move on to the next thing.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I love the website for all the goodies it has. Character gameplay highlight videos was something I always wanted to see. I definitely would like to see a palette swap slider for the main profile artwork that allows you to see which one as a high render. Many sites have that.

A biography of each character accorisng to thier respective franchise would also be beneficial for those interested in lore and legacy.

Wait no... I mean like....

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This thing. I like your ideas tho.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You really didn't answer my question.

Your question was "who does the Smash community want?"
And my answer is- a fun character.
My answer is not- incineroar, skull kid, and geno, because leakers and youtubers made them prominent in our minds nowadays.

My answer is- there is not an answer to this anymore, because the glaring characters for inclusion have made it, so now we have to look to the reality that there are a lot of characters people want, many with rich histories in gaming, and this isnt some cut and dry process. It is messy. Character inclusion is messy, and the results are not going to please everyone or be taken down a list from what we as an injured internet audience see as necessity.

All I ask is for people to think for themselves, and I understand that is quite frightening and most people dont even know how to do it, but I'm still going to ask it. Before posting an opinion, actually ask yourself why it is your opinion.

 

[Jetsurge]

Sounds like skinny Blonde dudes with giant swords.
Just saying. Proves nothing. But....it happened.

Cloud and FF are a lot bigger than Rayman

 

[Michael the Spikester]

People are satisfied with news for a week at most and then we move on to the next thing.

It's freakin Ridley and K. Rool though!

Eh then again I guess your right. Everyone's different.

 

[Will]

Loz teased Isaac

Pretty sure Dixie and Impa might make it as echoes

Dixie I can understand, but Impa?

You got some 'splainin to do

 

[Starbound]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Direct character was probably gonna be someone who has/had a following, but a silent one or one that people didn't think about as much.

A darkhorse, essentially.

So now we'll get Agnes.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I can't understand how anyone can be impatient for anymore newcomers when we already got ones like K. Rool and Ridley...

That there should be enough to require patience.

Those two were my most wanted, but I'm anxious to see if Geno is finally in or not. Banjo and Crash as well, but those have less of a chance. Beyond those three, I just want villains mainly.

 

[Shroob]

Your question was "who does the Smash community want?"
And my answer is- a fun character.
My answer is not- incineroar, skull kid, and geno, because leakers and youtubers made them prominent in our minds nowadays.

My answer is- there is not an answer to this anymore, because the glaring characters for inclusion have made it, so now we have to look to the reality that there are a lot of characters people want, many with rich histories in gaming, and this isnt some cut and dry process. It is messy. Character inclusion is messy, and the results are not going to please everyone or be taken down a list from what we as an injured internet audience see as necessity.

All I ask is for people to think for themselves, and I understand that is quite frightening and most people dont even know how to do it, but I'm still going to ask it.

And when you think for yourself, you get burned, hard.



Do you really want people hyping themselves up for characters that have literally no chance?


Maybe it's just me, but the safest bet is always the best bet, because if you play safe, you keep disappointment to a minimum.


Have both Brawl and Smash 4's speculation cycles where any character who someone thought up had a shot, only to not even come close, not taught us anything?

 

[Will]

So now we'll get Agnes.

Eeeeeeehhhhhh I'm still on team Tiz.

 

[Jetsurge]

Pretty sure Dixie and Impa might make it as echoes

Dixie and Impa are like the most highly requested characters that could be echos, I'd be surprised if they aren't in.

Dixie I can understand, but Impa?
View attachment 163268
You got some 'splainin to do

Impa in Skyward Sword fights very similar to Smash Sheik, HW big ass sword Impa isn't canon. And you seen Sheik's new final smash? That gives me Impa vibes.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

That sounds pretty boring to me- it's just what everyone is repeating, in large part because it is what everyone is repeating, repeated more due to being he

No... no its not what people want.
There is a difference between Ridley and K Rool, and the other characters on the list.
We as a Smash fanbase online, are not the entire Smash community.
The longer we speculate about an announced game, the more the same characters echo back around because it is what we see likely.
This isnt perfectly representing what everyone who buys this game actually wants; at best it is representative of what those who spend their times speculating want, and even then, I find it foolish to think the names one reads and then perpetuates are the end all to the lists.

Most people just dont have the ability to get to their own thoughts once they read an idea over an over again. Let's get some psychological stats on this point.

Regardless, when the game comes out and those 'expected' characters are not the final list, we can pick this conversation back up.

And what if they are?

You're riding on a high horse, and while your claims aren't entirely unrealistic (far from it, actually), they are putting down other's opinions and thoughts on characters with actual merit behind them because you personally find them "boring".

Sure, the evidence ultimately means little depending on a developer we have no way of entering the mind of, but based on things that have happened before and a reoccuring theme of our actually most popular and speculated characters being included with the surprise echoes, they seem to make sense and without these names, speculation becomes rampant and disorderly.

Motto is: Just let people do their thing. It makes stuff interesting and feeds the hunger and there's really no other characters to talk about without them.

You're welcome to bring up your own characters you'd like to see and why they could be cool to add sone pizazz to the convo if you want though.

 

[Misery Brick]

No... no its not what people want.
There is a difference between Ridley and K Rool, and the other characters on the list.
We as a Smash fanbase online, are not the entire Smash community.
The longer we speculate about an announced game, the more the same characters echo back around because it is what we see likely.
This isnt perfectly representing what everyone who buys this game actually wants; at best it is representative of what those who spend their times speculating want, and even then, I find it foolish to think the names one reads and then perpetuates are the end all to the lists.

Most people just dont have the ability to get to their own thoughts once they read an idea over an over again. Let's get some psychological stats on this point.

Regardless, when the game comes out and those 'expected' characters are not the final list, we can pick this conversation back up.

That's something that I've noticed with Smash speculation in general, and it is bound to happen obviously. A lot of the people who are vocal on here or push a good amount of characters are definitely not representative of the general audience.
Like characters such as Ridley, while having quite a bit of fan demand behind them, was practically unknown to a wider group of people. Like after E3, I saw a good chunk of people excited with Smash Ultimate but completely confused on who Ridley was.
So it's just completely bizzare to me when I see people say that everyone wants Geno for example, or that they would be the complete bombshell to drop as the last release.
Like sure, to us maybe. Given we've been around Smash speculation and we've seen the diehard support for him for so long.

However, he would practically be a "WTF" character to the general audience. Given, let's be honest, he's only discussed when pertaining to Smash, not Nintendo and Mario in general, and hasn't had a crucial role in any game since his debut one.
And that's why I think it's crazy that a character like him would be considered the "grand finale" when he's practically unknown to a wider audience.
This isn't to say that he, or other characters of his caliber, should be discredited. Enjoy the character and support them! Like for instance, the hypest reveal, outside of Ridley for me, would be a Rhythm Heaven character. However, that isn't representative of most Smash and Nintendo fans.

It's just something I've noticed and definitely to keep in mind in regards to the fans that this game tries to pull in.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Your question was "who does the Smash community want?"
And my answer is- a fun character.
My answer is not- incineroar, skull kid, and geno, because leakers and youtubers made them prominent in our minds nowadays.

My answer is- there is not an answer to this anymore, because the glaring characters for inclusion have made it, so now we have to look to the reality that there are a lot of characters people want, many with rich histories in gaming, and this isnt some cut and dry process. It is messy. Character inclusion is messy, and the results are not going to please everyone or be taken down a list from what we as an injured internet audience see as necessity.

All I ask is for people to think for themselves, and I understand that is quite frightening and most people dont even know how to do it, but I'm still going to ask it. Before posting an opinion, actually ask yourself why it is your opinion.

You're acting as if Geno hasn't been wanted since Brawl.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Dixie I can understand, but Impa?
View attachment 163268
You got some 'splainin to do

Impa is the most recurring Zelda character outside of the triforce.
Impa is of the same tribe as Sheik.
Is it really that difficult to conceive?

 

[Icedragonadam]

So there's two mysterious missing files between Ness's Memories and Rathalos.

That's pretty suspicious.

 

[Radical Bones]

Famitsu is leaking tomorrow, so we'll know whether or not that's BS soon enough.

I've heard this every day since the Direct was cancelled lol.

 

[Will]

Impa is the most recurring Zelda character outside of the triforce.
Impa is of the same tribe as Sheik.
Is it really that difficult to conceive?

Yes. I really can't appease the mods here that's literally all I need to say.

 

[pupNapoleon]

And what if they are?

You're riding on a high horse, and while your claims aren't entirely unrealistic (far from it, actually), they are putting down other's opinions and thoughts on c
Motto is: Just let people do their thing. It makes stuff interesting and feeds the hunger and there's really no other characters to talk about without them.

You're welcome to bring up your own characters you'd like to see and why they could be cool to add sone pizazz to the convo if you want though.

I apologize if I am sounding high and mighty. I'm just looking for more interesting speculation where I can hear what people actually want, not hear them reverberating what they think based on what others are stating.

 

[Glaciacott]

Personally? I think the best list to go off of is what media franchises have done scored the best ever.
Forget gaming on itself, lets talk about the franchises that made an impact as far as media as a whole (and are still gaming originated).
This means games like Minecraft, Angry Birds, Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts (as Disney overall), Tomb Raider... theres only two dozen or so gaming franchises that have raised over 3 billion in franchise profits. Numerically, these are the biggest crowd pleasers.

On the flip side, yet not... King K Rool and Ridley were highly wanted by Smash scenes. Yes. And the next character most wanted after that is quite frankly immensely less comparable. Just because those two made it in does not mean we can just take the threads with high characters and say they made it in. Months ago, Decidueye was the Pokemon frontrunner. Then, two leakers said it was Incineroar, and Decidueye is as good as blacklisted. If that doesnt tell you the power of the speculation scene reverberating its own ideas, nothing will.

So, I don't keep up with these things much, but have those leakers actually outright said Incineroar? Last I heard they just said a non-Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu pokemon

 

[Waluigi is not getting in]

I'm going to make this clear once and for all. The element of surprise does NOT determine the quality of a roster.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You're acting as if Geno hasn't been wanted since Brawl.

No I'm not- If anything, I'm acitng like hundreds of characters have been wanted with fervor since Brawl.

 

[Jetsurge]

Impa is the most recurring Zelda character outside of the triforce.
Impa is of the same tribe as Sheik.
Is it really that difficult to conceive?

People need to remember that big ass sword Impa in HW is NOT CANON. In canon in OOT and SS she is a lot more like Sheik.

 

[Malkior7]

wouldn't the 3 missing updates being back to back mean 3 newcomers at one time? if memory serves K.Rool and SImon both were an update at the same time after their direct yeah? and echos always got updated separately afterwards. (Richter at least happened 4 days after the direct)

 

[Chrono.]

coughcoughElmacoughcough

I think she'd be a regular pick more than anything else.

I smell Hot(or maybe it's cold) coffee go on I'm listening.

I'm bad at predicting lol. I don't know who exactly would fit that bill, it was more of a general hunch.

I guess someone like Lloyd, Akuma or Layton.

Which honestly could've been Skull Kid before LoZ.

Bandana Dee kinda fits this? Maybe Rayman?

Bandana Dee tops polls constantly so I don't think he counts as a darkhorse. But at the same time, none of the """credible""" leakers have mentioned him either.

Rayman IS someone I think people are sleeping on. Trophies in Smash 4, Ubisoft having a good relationship with Nintendo, the Artsy Omni hoax increased demand for him right before the Smash Ballot launched. All the cards are in place for him tbh.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Cloud and FF are a lot bigger than Rayman

And no one expected it. It was nuts.
Master Chief and Halo are a lot bigger than Rayman, too, but that doesn’t mean he’s getting in.
The grand nature of a third party franchise is not necessarily going to oust lesser franchises.
Metal Gear Solid got in before Final Fantasy, for example.
Why? Kojima asked, right?
Who else might have picked up on that? Why is there a Rayman trophy in Smash 4? We’re they trying?
Again. Proves nothing. Except that it’s anyone’s guess on the third parties. Or maybe it’s really just the polls from years ago.
Any franchise recognizable in gaming history has a shot.

 

[CJ Falcon]

This has probably been said before, but I don't see how Dixie could be done justice as an echo. I mean yeah, you could argue that Lucina and Chrom aren't being done justice, but they still use their signature weapons. If Dixie were an echo she wouldn't use her signature weapon: her hair. Sure, they could probably change her up B to something else like with Chrom, but that would just be one move with her hair. Remember that Dixie picks up things with her hair in her games, so for her to not grab with her hair would feel so wrong.

 

[Shroob]

That's something that I've noticed with Smash speculation in general, and it is bound to happen obviously. A lot of the people who are vocal on here or push a good amount of characters are definitely not representative of the general audience.
Like characters such as Ridley, while having quite a bit of fan demand behind them, was practically unknown to a wider group of people. Like after E3, I saw a good chunk of people excited with Smash Ultimate but completely confused on who Ridley was.
So it's just completely bizzare to me when I see people say that everyone wants Geno for example, or that they would be the complete bombshell to drop as the last release.
Like sure, to us maybe. Given we've been around Smash speculation and we've seen the diehard support for him for so long.

However, he would practically be a "WTF" character to the general audience. Given, let's be honest, he's only discussed when pertaining to Smash, not Nintendo and Mario in general, and hasn't had a crucial role in any game since his debut one.
And that's why I think it's crazy that a character like him would be considered the "grand finale" when he's practically unknown to a wider audience.
This isn't to say that he, or other characters of his caliber, should be discredited. Enjoy the character and support them! Like for instance, the hypest reveal, outside of Ridley for me, would be a Rhythm Heaven character. However, that isn't representative of most Smash and Nintendo fans.

It's just something I've noticed and definitely to keep in mind in regards to the fans that this game tries to pull in.

I mean, you said it yourself kinda.


Geno would be a huge love letter reveal to the fans first and foremost.


Do you really think characters like Ridley or K.Rool would have gotten into Smash were it not for us, the fans? No, I really, really don't.


Sakurai's gone on record saying that fan demand got both in, and he himself has shown interest in Geno as early back as 2016.



This game's roster is being tailor made to us, the actual diehard fans. If it wasn't, characters like Ridley and K.Rool would have no chance in hell.