Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

Because smash 4 stripped many staples of the series like a story mode and a good classic mode etc.

And I don't want ultimate to be given the same treatment the remo cal of codec calls and no trophies shown is not a good sign at all.

Change? In my video game series?

But for real though, if you don't like it then be my guest, it's your loss. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of this game and have a great time.

Also, you're making a doomsday scenario when we don't even know about the full game. Chill man.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Could just bring over all existing trophies, make a few for newcomers from new IP’s and call it good.

I was never a big fan of trophies. They didn’t have a function other than being viewable.

It's such a classic staple though, and if there's nothing to reward us for playing, then why keep playing unless it's with friends?

 

[Cap’nKazam]

I’m also hoping for a new Zelda rep although I think Tetra and Tingle aren’t really a part of the competition (at least not from what I’ve read from reddit, fb, gamefaqs) I think the newcomer is speculated to be Skull Kid while a possible echo would be Impa or Hilda.

Tingle I generally agree with, although I strongly disagree about Tetra. Sakurai's already tried to include her in Smash (most likely) once already. She's one of the better known Zelda characters in Japan, one of the most recurring characters in Zelda - considering she's a single character from one era of Zelda that came back three separate times after Wind Waker, which is A LOT for any individual Zelda character - and had a lot of attention leading up to the fighter ballot in '15. She lead the advertising campaign in Hyrule Legends, enjoying renewed popularity with Wind Waker HD not long before that, and (although she didn't personally appear in it), probably also enjoyed some help from another Toon Zelda game - Triforce Heroes - which was released just months before the ballot began (interestingly, Triforce Heroes was originally supposed to be a sequel to Link Between Worlds, but reverted back to Toon Zelda style because it's so popular). Toon LoZ's continuing popularity was also evidenced in Pirate Ship (Tetra's own ship), being the only non-64/non-newcomer stage introduced via DLC aside from Mario Maker and Miiverse, and the only major Zelda-themed content we received via DLC for WiiU Smash Bros., apart from Link cap and Majora's Mask costumes. Which may be a clue as to how well Toon Zelda/Tetra did in Sakurai's unseen polls. Tetra is also a leading star in Aonuma's own favorite Zelda game: Phantom Hourglass - which incidentally started receiving strange representation of its own starting in WiiU with Zelda's new down-B Phantom Slash attack. Also of note, Toon Link's home stage for Ultimate was set for Spirit Train - a game he did not originate from and is not most well known by - while Tetra's Pirate Ship stage (popular enough to come back for DLC), remains currently unaffiliated.

This is all aside from the fact that Tetra herself one of the most expressive, developed, unique characters in Zelda lore, and an honest to goodness pirate (which Smash utterly lacks). Her addition would balance out the aesthetic of the Zelda roster well, which looks a little serious and Fire Emblem-y right now, while Toon Link sticks out like a sore thumb - which I don't think fully appreciates the Zelda series' wide range of settings and tones. Given that Toon Zelda's already strongly represented in stages, and Sakurai evidently wanted to create the character at one point - it seems profoundly evident Tetra would be a natural character to consider.

Honestly, it seems the only reason people are against her is because they dislike the idea of having three Zeldas. Which is a fair point, although Tetra looks, acts, and her entire moveset would be so utterly unlike Zelda (given she doesn't even let people call her Zelda, she's practically an entirely separate character already - an anti-Zelda; she wields a flintlock pistol for goodness sake), the point appears very strained to me. It’s likely she doesn’t even have the Triforce for her appearances outside of Wind Waker (where she lost it). Regarding Impa: I do really want Impa to be on the roster - she's definitely earned a spot - but I don't think she adds nearly as much to Zelda's representation as Tetra would (what other franchise could boast introducing both a ninja AND a pirate?), and her strongest argument for inclusion seems to be that she's had such a recurring role - a role Tetra has four times the exposure of for any single iteration. Had they both been one-offs, I have doubts as to whether Impa would be a viable contender, whereas Tetra would likely still have a strong following (if one-offs like Midna are any indication). Not to mention, we've already got a few ninja characters - that's been done - Impa doesn't fulfill any vacant niches that I can see. Given Tetra's unique look, moveset options, relative popularity, and coveted role being one of Sakurai's chosen, scrapped characters (who have a habit of getting in later, if Dedede, Marth, Mewtwo, Ridley, etc, are any indications) - I think ruling out Tetra is simply silly. By Sakurai's own considerations, that she deserves a spot in the Smash Bros roster is hard to deny.

EDIT: I want to amend one point made here, after Legendary Spirit Tamer informed me of a few things. Sakurai considering Tetra for Brawl comes from datamined information containing files named for Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik. While these may be placeholder names, we this is difficult to verify, as most characters use their literal names for their files. We do have instances of Sakurai using nonspecific names for character files, such as Melee's use of the title "Fireemblem" for Roy. Considering "Toon Zelda" would have been a clone of an already existing character (given they area a clone of a transforming character, this is a unique situation) who was still at a conceptual stage, it's hard to say whether "Toon Sheik" was supposed to be a literal reference for her or not. At the very least, I think it likely Sakurai would have eventually changed this character to Tetra anyway if that was not already the plan, as Tetra had been polling very well (and based on all the data I can find, far better than Toon Zelda, who I can find no polling references to) - and it was clear this general character was on his radar. However, it is important to clarify that there is currently no concrete proof to point to that Tetra was planned for Brawl. Thanks Legendary Spirit Tamer!

https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

 

[Luigi The President]

Change? In my video game series?

But for real though, if you don't like it then be my guest, it's your loss. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of this game and have a great time.

Also, you're making a doomsday scenario when we don't even know about the full game. Chill man.

Wanna come down from the high horse there?

You just had to remind me of Adventure Time ending huh TPC

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Having genuine concerns about smash ultimate is bait? Okay lol


Fanboys will be fanboys, why bother watching directs if you will blindly support the game anyway.

Some of us have high expectations for smash

Wanna come down from that high horse there?

 

[Will]

No Codecs? Smash is really losing its way recently I hope there's a story mode or I will not be happy at all with ultimate. May as well make it smash 4 DLC then.

I thought about this comment, and I think I have real insight on this.

Spoiler

 

[Shroob]

Having genuine concerns about smash ultimate is bait? Okay lol


Fanboys will be fanboys, why bother watching directs if you will blindly support the game anyway.

Some of us have high expectations for smash

>High expectations
>Comparing Trophies and Adventure mode to the actual meat of Smash being its mechanics and characters

 

[Omega Tyrant]

1. They might not want to risk Hayter leaking the newcomers, so they'll record them a little later.

Well Hayter did leak Jigglypuff back in Brawl...

 

[Chrono.]

I thought about this comment, and I think I have real insight on this.

Spoiler

Why is he wearing the Pope's hat.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Story Mode didn't really exist till Melee. It was never a staple of the series. Classic Mode got changed up every game, with Brawl removing most of the mini-games, and 4 removing them altogether. The problem is that it doesn't have consistent single player modes among the series, so there's nothing staple about Classic Mode beyond fighting some characters in unique battle settings and fighting Master Hand. That's... unfortunately it. I would call Melee the last good Classic Mode myself. Brawl bored me to tears with its extreme length and only two target tests. Wii U was more interesting due to some change-ups, but not much. 3DS was short, but wasn't exciting to me at all.

 

[Pakky]

Having genuine concerns about smash ultimate is bait? Okay lol


Fanboys will be fanboys, why bother watching directs if you will blindly support the game anyway.

Some of us have high expectations for smash

Eh I doubt the situation's gonna be bad.

They're keeping everyone in mind for this one.

So I don't think anything is going to 'leave'

If anything parts will be put to better use like the 'good' parts of smash tour.

 

[Will]

Why is he wearing the Pope's hat.

Spoiler

The original meme was this news thing about "Kid asks Pope if his dad who didnt believe in God will go to heaven" and then that post.

 

[google chrom]

No one plays smash so they can look at the collectibles

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I expect Guidances will be axed too.

Sakurai will kill us all before he does that

 

[Will]

Sakurai will kill us all before he does that

They'd have to rerecord a lot of lines though.
I think the codec thing oartially has to do with the fact that Colonel's JP VA got the axe.

 

[WaxPython]

So we are all going to pretend classic mode in smash 4, smash tour, the removal of any story mode as well numerous other features was perfect?

I'll never understand why people are reluctant to critisise the direction the game is heading it's how we get games that aren't very good.

Look at the downfall of Mario party and star Fox Nintendo should never be immune to criticism.

Obviously if Nintendo reveal a story mode trophies and codecs my tone will change but after smash 4 I'm right to be a bit sceptical until Nintendo proves me wro mg.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

No one plays smash so they can look at the collectibles

As a person who likes to collect and earn rewards and who is interested in the actual lore and backgrounds of the universes, I love them.

I spent hours just reading up on trophies in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Having genuine concerns about smash ultimate is bait? Okay lol


Fanboys will be fanboys, why bother watching directs if you will blindly support the game anyway.

Some of us have high expectations for smash

Alright, lemme just hit you with that supposed "blind support". One, you are wrong when you said that "story mode has been a staple of Smash Bros." It only appeared once in Brawl and even while it was mostly great back then, it had some flaws. You can't compare Melee's Adventure Mode to something grandiose as a fully fleshed out story. You're comparing a fun romp through Nintendo worlds with a storyboard that anime directors written out, it's an asinine comparison.

That "good classic mode" you said that was stripped in Smash 4 is back in Ultimate, so I don't even know why you're complaining about that in the first place. And if you're complaining about no Codecs, the you really must be something else. With a roster of 75+ characters, that's practically almost more than double the amount of Brawl's roster. Sakurai has already stated they're shilling out so much money when it comes to music, engine and other such things, so with how David Hayter's rates are for voice acting and the not to mention the time spent trying to essentially do 75+ codecs, if this is true, then it makes sense to save everyone some trouble.

How in the world you came up with the sentence "some of us have high expectations" when you have a 70+ character roster, 100+ stages and third parties up the wazoo... I just can't help but to Scottpost on you, my guy.

 

[Chrono.]

Spoiler

The original meme was this news thing about "Kid asks Pope if his dad who didnt believe in God will go to heaven" and then that post.

You know what I didn't expect a legit answer.

 

[Dee Dude]

Random fun fact:
Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and Jigglypuff are the only OG 12 members who have yet to appear in a CGI newcomer trailer.

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

 

[SmashingXan2]

Having genuine concerns about smash ultimate is bait? Okay lol


Fanboys will be fanboys, why bother watching directs if you will blindly support the game anyway.

Some of us have high expectations for smash

You're saying it might as well be dlc because it doesn't have codecs or a story mode. Btw, an actual story mode, which has an actual story, was only in Brawl. Far from a series staple. And trophies are coming back, why else would there be a vault section on the menu? You're whole argument is acting like Ultimate has been disappointing so far, of which it is the opposite


(Btw Melee Adventure mode has no story, it was just going to locations and fighting for no reason. And Spirits is probably something like a story mode)

 

[Chrono.]

Random fun fact:
Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and Jigglypuff are the only OG 12 members who have yet to appear in a CGI newcomer trailer.

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

Ness in Isaac's just for that psychic connection.

 

[Shroob]

So we are all glijng to pretend classic mode in smash 4, smash tour, the removal of any story mode as well numerous other features.

I'll never understand why people are reluctant to critisise the direction the game is heading it's how we get games that aren't very good.

Look at the downfall of Mario party and star Fox Nintendo should never be immune to criticism.

Obviously if Nintendo reveal a story mode trophies and codecs my tone win change but after smash 4 I'm right to be a bit sceptical until Nintendo proves me wro mg.

Going to be straight with you chief.


Classic mode is fun going through it the first time.



It's going to be tedious as hell going through it probably 70+ times.


The same could be said of a Melee-styled adventure mode if we get one. Doing it over 70 times isn't fun, it's tedious.

 

[WaxPython]

As a person who likes to collect and earn rewards and who is interested in the actual lore and backgrounds of the universes, I love them.

I spent hours just reading up on trophies in Brawl.

Same tbh, I can't believe.people are acting like trophies are no big deal. I try to earn them all I would be devastated if they were to be removed.

 

[Pyra]

Random fun fact:
Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and Jigglypuff are the only OG 12 members who have yet to appear in a CGI newcomer trailer.

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

Yoshi could be in Geno's. It could take place on Yo'ster Isle.
Y'know, when they simultaneously reveal Boshi as an echo.

 

[Luigi The President]

Same tbh, I can't believe.people are acting like trophies are no big deal. I try to earn them all I would be devastated if they were to be removed.

Which is why they aren't removed. The Vault, buddy.

So we are all going to pretend classic mode in smash 4, smash tour, the removal of any story mode as well numerous other features was perfect?

I'll never understand why people are reluctant to critisise the direction the game is heading it's how we get games that aren't very good.

Look at the downfall of Mario party and star Fox Nintendo should never be immune to criticism.

Obviously if Nintendo reveal a story mode trophies and codecs my tone will change but after smash 4 I'm right to be a bit sceptical until Nintendo proves me wro mg.

You see it's not that I'm reluctant to criticize it it's that I have nothing to criticize except Paper Mario not being in LOL
Also what do you think Spirits is

 

[Zinith]

Random fun fact:
Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and Jigglypuff are the only OG 12 members who have yet to appear in a CGI newcomer trailer.

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

Doesn't the E3 2013 trailer count? Cause Fox was in that one.

Anyways, if Boshi got in, my boi will as well

 

[Will]

Ness

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

I don't even need to say it and you know.

 

[Deleted member]

So we are all glijng to pretend classic mode in smash 4, smash tour, the removal of any story mode as well numerous other features.

I'll never understand why people are reluctant to critisise the direction the game is heading it's how we get games that aren't very good.

Look at the downfall of Mario party and star Fox Nintendo should never be immune to criticism.

Obviously if Nintendo reveal a story mode trophies and codecs my tone win change but after smash 4 I'm right to be a bit sceptical until Nintendo proves me wro mg.

Smash 4 was great, what are you talking about?

Stop hating on Smash 4 guys.

Brawl and Melee did feel like they have more soul, but Smash 4 was fun.

Smash 4 had For Glory, a lot of trophies, cool mini games, a better classic mode and a lot of great characters!

Also Smash is just getting better and better. You are completely wrong.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Random fun fact:
Fox, Yoshi, Ness, and Jigglypuff are the only OG 12 members who have yet to appear in a CGI newcomer trailer.

What newcomer trailers do you think they could be in?

Link?

 

[SmashingXan2]

Same tbh, I can't believe.people are acting like trophies are no big deal. I try to earn them all I would be devastated if they were to be removed.

Nothing points to that. There is still a vault option, so trophies are most likely back. Alsowant to bring up that Classic Mode is going back to a Brawl Melee route. So your whole argument is mute

 

[TheYungLink]

My biggest concern for Smash Ultimate is if it will have any Zelda newcomers, but since my favorite character, Young Link, is back, I'll be fine if there aren't any.

 

[Jetsurge]

Why is he wearing the Pope's hat.

Because Sans confirmed

 

[Pyra]

Link?

He's been in a few for Smash 4.

 

[Nethermoosen]

It's such a classic staple though, and if there's nothing to reward us for playing, then why keep playing unless it's with friends?

Smash IS the reward. I don’t pay $60 so that I can be given trophies. I play because it’s a freaking blast. I am rewarded every time I find a new way to use a character or master spacing with a certain attack.
No trophy will ever be equivalent to improvement of play to me.

To be clear, once I unlocked all the characters, I spent the next 4 years playing 1v1 For Glory and competitive matches with my friends. I had less than half the trophies and custom moves.

I’m a competitive player, but not in the sense that I want to be the best. I find a lot of satisfaction in self-control. That’s why my second passion is martial arts. Mastery of form and improvement of the self just feels good to me.

Being able to execute a set of moves in a row with near perfect precision is exhilarating to me.

 

[Enderwoman]

You know trophies are great but the biggest problem with them is that there are just too many. It's nigh impossible to collect them all in any Smash game and most of them are just pretty lame things in spite of the descriptions. Nowadays they're usually just models and sprites ripped from other games which doesn't make them all too unique. It does not help at all that you can get duplicates for absolutely no reason other than gacha garbage Sakurai is obsessed with.

Trophies would instantly be improved by having less of them, and more of them being uniquely modeled and rendered characters like how many of them were back in Melee, it's fun seeing updates of old characters. Trophies should be novel instead of just being filler

 

[WaxPython]

You can't compare Melee's Adventure Mode to something grandiose as a fully fleshed out story

Yes I can, Adventure mode is what we consider story mode for melee.

Doesn't matter is subspace was more fleshed out.

The fact is there's no adventure mode, subspace mode in smash 4 which is a huge bummer for most people who like a single player experience. We did not enjoy smash tour.

 

[Deleted member]

You know trophies are great but the biggest problem with them is that there are just too many. It's nigh impossible to collect them all in any Smash game and most of them are just pretty lame things in spite of the descriptions. Nowadays they're usually just models and sprites ripped from other games which doesn't make them all too unique. It does not help at all that you can get duplicates for absolutely no reason other than gacha garbage Sakurai is obsessed with.

Trophies would instantly be improved by having less of them, and more of them being uniquely modeled and rendered characters like how many of them were back in Melee, it's fun seeing updates of old characters. Trophies should be novel instead of just being filler

Are you kidding me? The more trophies, the better.
It makes Smash Bros more long and expansive.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'll be honest; WaxPython is being very fair here. He has a right to criticize the games if they feel like they're lackluster. It's perfectly understandable to not be a fan of certain cut content. What's the issue with that?

Remember, just because it's an unpopular opinion doesn't mean it's invalid. The only real thing that is incorrect is the whole "staple of the series" bit. A lot of stuff has been cut and never returned. Single Player has very few staples; a unique boss, a lot of fights against playable characters. Yeah, that's... it. Like, as sad as it is that mini-games keep getting removed, they were never staples to begin with anyway. They're just a part of the game and were legit popular, but also didn't work out in 4's new Classic designs. It makes sense to not be in Wii U's version, as you could use multiple characters. This makes every mini-game except at best, Home Run Content, unfeasible. 3DS was designed to be a far faster Classic mode, so it kept it battles only.

Whether this is good or bad is subjective. But they did redesign a lot of stuff we used to have so they only somewhat resemble previous games. Besides, Classic Mode is called "Simple Mode" in Japan. It was meant to be an Arcade Mode, not necessarily a requirement to have stuff like mini-games, you know?

 

[google chrom]

So we are all going to pretend classic mode in smash 4, smash tour, the removal of any story mode as well numerous other features was perfect?

I'll never understand why people are reluctant to critisise the direction the game is heading it's how we get games that aren't very good.

Look at the downfall of Mario party and star Fox Nintendo should never be immune to criticism.

Obviously if Nintendo reveal a story mode trophies and codecs my tone will change but after smash 4 I'm right to be a bit sceptical until Nintendo proves me wro mg.

smash 4 had its downfalls but why are we complaining about things we don't even know are cut/added/remade/"Staple"