Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

You can see it like that!

But in Japan the Digimon card game and the Digimon vídeo games are alot more popular.
They have new Digimon Virtual Pets almost every year.

And recently the Digimon games are very popular!
Cyber Sleuth, Hackers Memory, Next Order and now Digimon Survive (PS4 and Switch)

The rivalry with Pokémon can help alot.

That reminds me... Imagine a future where Pikachu, Agumon, and Jibnyan were all in the same game...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I've identified at least 4 other characters in the Everyone is Here mural that appear to be interacting with nothing. (Daisy is a 5th one but everyone knows about her)

first is Dark Samus

Spoiler: Dark Samus

She is clearly preparing to fire at someone beneath her but she is but she is behind Shulk and Pacman which means she is firing at no one.

Spoiler: Bowser Jr.

Jr. appears to be spouting fire but he is way behind Ganon (fire is clipping through ganons arm) so obviously no one there (unless Ganon is hiding them lol)

Spoiler: Ice Climbers

Simons chain is clipping through Popo's rump which means Nana and Popo are ahead of him and Simon is ahead of Dr.Mario and G+W which means Popo is hammering down on no one.

Spoiler: Mii Gunner

Mii Gunner I think is one of the farthest back and yeah clearly no one there she is firing at. as no one in her vicinity is as far back as she is

Possible areas for new characters

5 more characters at least (including echos)

I can dig it.

 

[AreJay25]

Goku CAN be in Smash.

... If you open up this nice little app, you may have heard of it, it's called Mii Maker. Yeah, just make Goku, turn him into a Mii Brawler and there you go, Goku's in Smash, hooray

 

[Opossum]

Aren't virtual pets more like a toy? I don't even think many people know about Agumamon, he doesnt seem to be that popular. You may want to lower your hopes.

If Game & Watch systems count as video games, then virtual pet toys absolutely do. Video games, at the end of the day, are just toys anyway.

 

[lightdrago]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...AxAB&usg=AOvVaw0i8ecYrVjzbRLFl3y1zK5Z&ampcf=1

People talk about hints about newcomers but ingnore actual hints and references... Goku deserves to be in smash imho.

EDIT
Not the reference I had in mind I was thinking about the K Rool trailer with the obvious reference. I guess this is just more fuel to the fire.

Ah yes, common tropes/stances = hint towards Goku. We were so blind.

At this point, the chairs are more of a legitimate hint...

 

[Graizen]

Digimon Virtual Pets are Toys and Games mixed.

You can think of it as a fused Game & Watch and R.O.B.

But the first Digimon Video Games are older than the Digimon Anime and Manga as well.

 

[WaxPython]

Your bias is showing.

Didn't people claim Smash 4 had Jojo references?

And why does Goku deserve to be in smash in your opinion compared to countless other fictional characters?

Because he has multiple Nintendo exclusive games on consoles like the 3ds unlike Cloud.

Namco own all the dragon ball video game rights so he can be included in smash extremely easily.

He's extremely popular worldwide, would boost sales, has a good moveset, wouldn't be out of place in the roster, oh and he will be controversial so everyone will be talking about him in smash driving up hype even more.

If he is to be revealed he will be the final fighter for sure.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Welp

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9e5s03/thwarted_because_of_a_starand_other_issues_im/

This leak was 99% dead before, now it's 101% dead.

...Which mean WONDER RED CONFIRM BOY- OK, I see myself out.

Still, cool that the "leaker" show us the behind the scene stuff.

 

[Michele]

Goku CAN be in Smash.

... If you open up this nice little app, you may have heard of it, it's called Mii Maker. Yeah, just make Goku, turn him into a Mii Brawler and there you go, Goku's in Smash, hooray

That's not him though. He's just deformed.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Because he has multiple Nintendo exclusive games on consoles like the 3ds unlike Cloud.

Namco own all the dragon ball video game rights so he can be included in smash extremely easily.

He's extremely popular worldwide, would boost sales, has a good moveset, wouldn't be out of place in the roster, oh and he will be controversial so everyone will be talking about him in smash driving up hype even more.

If he is to be revealed he will be the final fighter for sure.

Such confidence.

It's fascinating really...

 

[Iridium]

If Game & Watch systems count as video games, then virtual pet toys absolutely do. Video games, at the end of the day, are just toys anyway.

Even something like this?

 

[The_Naraotor]

She surely has much better chances then say Master Chief and Scorpion two video game characters that will never happen to begin with. Guess that means we should give Kratos a chance as well?

I'll give her that.

Only question is would the classic or reboot version be used? This might be the case like how DINO (Dante In Name Only) was chosen over the beloved Dante we all know and love for PSASBR.

How about a mix of both Lara Croft with her Bow and two guns. Her game play can be cross between Bayonetta / Snake and Link.

 

[Chrono.]

Super Smash Bros Ultimate X Digimon would probably be one of the most shocking wildcards yet.

I know it started off as a Virtual Pet which technically makes it eligible but isn’t it more famously well known for it’s animes?

That could stir a massive load of internet debates where people can assume that Goku and other non game characters can happen of because Digimon content.

That said, I’m nowhere near against it and would be interested to see Agumon, Gabumon, Veemon etc duking it out on the Battlefield.

It mostly is, but Digimon World on PSX did come before any of the anime.

So even if you don't wanna count the V-Pets, it still got intro'd as a video game.

 

[Opossum]

He's extremely popular worldwide, would boost sales, has a good moveset, wouldn't be out of place in the roster, oh and he will be controversial so everyone will be talking about him in smash driving up hype even more.

Goku isn't even the only character this applies to. By this logic, Mickey Mouse is a shoo in.

 

[Slavic]

Give. Us. Shaq!

 

[WaxPython]

Such confidence.

It's fascinating really...

I'm not saying he's getting in. But people act like it would be ludicrous like let's say biggie smells is added in as a playable fighter.

Goku makes sense from a sales and fan perspective.

If snake was never a newcomer would anyone put much stock into adding him in as a fighter? Everyone would think he's out of place but he fits in like a glove.

 

[Opossum]

Even something like this?

Considering there's basically no difference between that and a Game and Watch, yeah.

 

[Momotsuki]

I'm honestly not sure how to react. I always thought nobody who expressed desire for Goku did so unironically. This is a very new ground I'm treading on.

 

[Enchess]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...AxAB&usg=AOvVaw0i8ecYrVjzbRLFl3y1zK5Z&ampcf=1

People talk about hints about newcomers but ingnore actual hints and references... Goku deserves to be in smash imho.

EDIT
Not the reference I had in mind I was thinking about the K Rool trailer with the obvious reference. I guess this is just more fuel to the fire.

I'm a huge DB fan. I own the entire series on DVD, have read through the manga multiple times, I've bought a lot of the games and put 100s of hours into them even though they were bad, and I'm really excited for Super Broly.

But Smash Bros isn't about anime. It's not a place where Goku belongs. I'm not going to try to force things I like into unrelated products where the other fans of those products don't like them.

I'm not interested in Jump Force right now because I don't really care about other Jump characters. A Shin Sekai Yori character (anime version, not infinitely pervier manga) would make the game way more exciting for me. But I'm not gonna go on Jump forums and spam about how deserving the Ogre or Saki are because as much as I like those characters, they aren't Jump and Jump Force isn't for them. I have to accept that.

 

[Michele]

Goku isn't even the only character this applies to. By this logic, Mickey Mouse is a shoo in.

inb 5th party characters appears such as Mickey, Minnie, etc.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Welp

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9e5s03/thwarted_because_of_a_starand_other_issues_im/

This leak was 99% dead before, now it's 101% dead.

...Which mean WONDER RED CONFIRM BOY- OK, I see myself out.

Still, cool that the "leaker" show us the behind the scene stuff.

Oof...at least that Bandana Waddle Dee render looks like a legit Ultimate render

 

[Honest Slug]

It's ok to like Goku but to seriously think he has a chance and that his situation is just like R.O.B's is completely delusional.

 

[Idon]

inb 5th party characters appears such as Mickey, Minnie, etc.

Alright, we stll all can't agree on whether 4th party is a legitimate non-stupid term, let's not jump to 5th party just yet.

 

[nintenplayer]

Because he has multiple Nintendo exclusive games on consoles like the 3ds unlike Cloud.

Namco own all the dragon ball video game rights so he can be included in smash extremely easily.

He's extremely popular worldwide, would boost sales, has a good moveset, wouldn't be out of place in the roster, oh and he will be controversial so everyone will be talking about him in smash driving up hype even more.

If he is to be revealed he will be the final fighter for sure.

Just because it's popular and easy to get rights to doesn't mean he's eligible. I don't know why it's so hard to understand this, but he is NOT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER, and Sakurai has clearly stated that he does not want to add such characters. I know Sakurai has changed his mind often in the past, but this is one issue I'm 100% sure he won't flip-flop on.
And how would controversies transfer into hype...? Do you know how hype works?

Spoiler

And besides, even if a non-video game character IS getting in Smash, I would NOT pick Goku.

I'd pick Matoi from Kill la Kill. Fight me.

 

[Michele]

Alright, we stll all can't agree on whether 4th party is a legitimate non-stupid term, let's not jump to 5th party just yet.

Yes, you're right, Mr. Idon.

Once we get the 4th party characters in the game, let's focus on the fifth. Then...Who knows?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Because he has multiple Nintendo exclusive games on consoles like the 3ds unlike Cloud.

Namco own all the dragon ball video game rights so he can be included in smash extremely easily.

He's extremely popular worldwide, would boost sales, has a good moveset, wouldn't be out of place in the roster, oh and he will be controversial so everyone will be talking about him in smash driving up hype even more.

If he is to be revealed he will be the final fighter for sure.

If Goku gets revealed as playable Smash Bros character over more deserving picks like Elma, Isaac, and Geno, I am literally going to eat paper...

 

[Opossum]

inb 5th party characters appears such as Mickey, Minnie, etc.

Fifth party isn't a thing. Hell, outside of Smash forum jargon, fourth party isn't a thing.

All non-video game characters not owned by Nintendo are still third party by definition.

 

[Dee Dude]

inb 5th party characters appears such as Mickey, Minnie, etc.

Technically they would still be 4th parties which refers to cartoon, movie, book, and anime characters.

5th Party characters would be real life people such as Reggie, Kanye West, John Cena, and Sakurai himself.

(I’m joking btw, I know they’re fan-made terms)

 

[Iridium]

Give. Us. Shaq!

We have two games to go off of:

I'll accept one "Wut?", please.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Oh, back to Goku again.

You know, I prefer that Smash stays to video games. I really do. I have zero connection to the anime and I don't want Goku in at all.

but...
I remember when we thought that third-parties who were never on Nintendo consoles was utter lunacy. And I remember how much people went nuts to see Cloud.

Let's just say that I wouldn't put anything past Sakurai this time. I always thought it was insane to consider him in, but then one of my friends from work mentioned the same idea. If Sakurai did manage it as a final DLC or something, that would absolutely break the internet.

5th Party characters would be real life people such as Reggie, Kanye West, John Cena, and Sakurai himself.

I'd love if the final boss of Spirits mode ended up being Sakurai himself. That'd just be hysterical - especially the memes what would come form him beating e.g. Ridley

 

[MBRedboy31]

Alright, we stll all can't agree on whether 4th party is a legitimate non-stupid term, let's not jump to 5th party just yet.

Would including real IRL celebrities or whatever be 6th party? Or is that 7th party because there’s another level in between? Or 8th? These are the actually definitely undeniably important questions, none can deny it!

 

[Chrono.]

Oh, back to Goku again.

You know, I prefer that Smash stays to video games. I really do. I have zero connection to the anime and I don't want Goku in at all.

but...
I remember when we thought that third-parties who were never on Nintendo consoles was utter lunacy. And I remember how much people went nuts to see Cloud.

Let's just say that I wouldn't put anything past Sakurai this time. I always thought it was insane to consider him in, but then one of my friends from work mentioned the same idea. If Sakurai did manage it as a final DLC or something, that would absolutely break the internet.

Cloud has been on Nintendo consoles before, just not his main game.

But that barely matters when you're one of the most iconic and important JRPG characters of all time.

 

[nintenplayer]

We have two games to go off of:

I'll accept one "Wut?", please.

Holy **** there was a reboot of that game? AVGN would not be proud.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We aren't getting anime characters. It just isn't happening, and frankly I think most Smash fans don't want it. The errors in thinking here are multiple:

1. It's not about what a character's first appearance is. It's about what a character's most significant appearance is. Is Goku more important as a character in Dragonball Z or as a character in Dragonball FighterZ? That's not really a question; we all know the super obvious answer. If this is a hard idea for you, think about it this way. For any character, imagine you absolutely must consider only one form of media in which they appeared and must call every other totally insignificant. Can you possibly say Goku's anime appearances are insignificant to who he is? Since the obvious answer is "no", he's not a video game character.

2. The criteria is "video game character" not "video game software character". R.O.B. is a video game hardware character. He's very literally a NES accessory; that is not even questionable in terms of being a video game character unless you don't think the NES is a video gaming machine. A LABO construct would also be "valid" as a video game character too; it's the same idea. 100% of Smash characters are unambiguously video game characters; there are no even vaguely borderline cases nor will there ever be.

And while we're at it, no, Sakurai could not put Goku in if he wanted to. Licensing for a character like this is insane, and while Nintendo could afford it (they're rich), spending "five times more than we spent on the licenses for every other piece of third party content in the game put together" wouldn't be appealing to them. I'm pretty sure if Sakurai were somehow inflicted with the temporary insanity required to put a non-video game character in Smash, he'd get vetoed by his bosses at Nintendo corporate on this point. It's actually impossible, and in fact, we've basically been told this directly. When they were announcing the results of the ballot and announcing Bayonetta, you might recall they made it clear that several characters who were not "realizable" were suggested to have done pretty well. This is probably anime characters and other not video game characters; I'm sure Goku, Batman, Bart Simpson, and Barack Obama did pretty well in the ballot, but they're all not happening and honestly it's silly to imagine otherwise.

 

[The_Naraotor]

Goku isn't even the only character this applies to. By this logic, Mickey Mouse is a shoo in.

I believe that Mickey can be only one exception to the "Only Video Game Character" motto from outside the video games universes/industries to be included in Smash Bros. Let me explain you why in few points.

1. First and foremost (date of creation 18th November 1928) Mickey is the Grandfather of all Mascot ever Sonic, Mario, Astro Boy, Crash Bandicoot, Bugs Bunny and every others compagny mascot from ads to video games to cartoons industries have inspiration from Mickey, he embodie the Mascot vibe.
2. If a Disney character (Because Disney makes also Video Games) were to be included only Mickey can fit this spot, Mickey is Disney and Disney is Mickey.
3. This dude have a lot of games in the long history run of Nintendo.
4. His moves set will be ingenious and awesome from Epic Mickey to Fantasia we could have so much fun with a character like Mickey and would fit Smash Bros.

So in the end and even if I understand that the motto say Only Video Games Characters can be put into Smash Bros, I feel that if there was an exception to this motto, the only one who could be potentially included is Mickey Mouse.

 

[WaxPython]

Oh, back to Goku again.

You know, I prefer that Smash stays to video games. I really do. I have zero connection to the anime and I don't want Goku in at all.

but...
I remember when we thought that third-parties who were never on Nintendo consoles was utter lunacy. And I remember how much people went nuts to see Cloud.

Let's just say that I wouldn't put anything past Sakurai this time. I always thought it was insane to consider him in, but then one of my friends from work mentioned the same idea. If Sakurai did manage it as a final DLC or something, that would absolutely break the internet.

Exactly Sakurai does what he wants. So I'm suprised people are acting like they know his plan for smash and what he has in store.

Who would have thought during Melee we would be playing as Snake, Bayonetta, and Cloud in the near future.

 

[Enchess]

Alright, we stll all can't agree on whether 4th party is a legitimate non-stupid term, let's not jump to 5th party just yet.

Plus, I literally don't understand why Mickey wouldn't be closer to 3rd party than Goku if we're gonna pretend 4th party is a thing. He also has tons of games and Nintendo exclusive ones too. Plus while Dragon Ball games are really niche and not influencial, Disney games come up all the time in video game history conversation. Nintendo themselves pull directly from them! To my knowledge they've never directly lifted unique mechanics from DB like that.

TL;DR - if we're gonna use a dumb term like 5th party, and we're gonna make either Mickey or Goku 5th party, Goku is 5th

 

[P.Kat]

Super Smash Bros Ultimate X Digimon would probably be one of the most shocking wildcards yet.

I know it started off as a Virtual Pet which technically makes it eligible but isn’t it more famously well known for it’s animes?

That could stir a massive load of internet debates where people can assume that Goku and other non game characters can happen because of Digimon content.

That said, I’m nowhere near against it and would be interested to see Agumon, Gabumon, Veemon etc duking it out on the Battlefield.

Just give Agumon the mechanic to Wrap Digivolve to Wargreymon, when the meter is full in mid battle and we good

If Agumon gets in and it doesn't come with a ton of Digimon anime music then it would be a waste.

Hopefully they'd put in this little number:

 

[nintenplayer]

Exactly Sakurai does what he wants. So I'm suprised people are acting like they know his plan for smash and what he has in store.

Who would have thought during Melee we would be playing as Snake, Bayonetta, and Cloud in the near future.

Except those characters were still plausible because they're video game characters....?

 

[Nap_]

Pipimi and Popuko should be the first and last non-videogame characters in Smash.
I think that everybody is going to agree with that.