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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Zinith

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I wonder if they'd just give Yoshi different shield animations. Like as the shield gets poked, the egg cracks. And the perfect shield means no cracks, because we can break the laws of physics apparently.
Yoshi's shield is the only one in the entirety of Smash that doesn't shrink. All other shields in the game are the same so it's much easier to standardize the mechanics around them. But my boi always has to have those properties that both help and hurt him...
 

Dee Dude

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They literally said in the direct that they're doing it for nostalgia preservation.
Didn’t notice
To preserve a sense of nostalgia. Something like that was said in the Smash Direct.
Because nostalgia. Honestly, the really great stages from a layout point of view (Zebes and Sector Z) were the only ones left out. The others are still good, but mostly great for the memories and history. If they were updated to modern graphics, they wouldnt look the same and wouldn't hit the nostalgia/history sweet spot.
That makes perfect sense.


If Wii U hadn’t already done that...

In seriousness, I totally get it. Just makes me wish Wii U and 3DS stuck to Brawl stages so Ultimate could really bring that nostalgia vibe.
 
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D

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Hey all. Hopefully I haven't missed much. I know that I usually joke about Vinny from Vinesauce playing the Banjo-Kazooie theme to jape us and have a good time, but I came across this on my timeline and figured I'd post it here to help give the guy some more support. Going through some rough bodily stuff.

https://twitter.com/VinnyVinesauce/...ssible-spoilers-possible-wah.434391/page-4022

Mod Edit: Tweet turned into a Link due to uncensored swearing. Please be wary of this before clicking it.
 
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Amazing Ampharos

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Well if he's going back to being a defensive fighter I HOPE they fix some of his options, which makes me wonder how they'll handle perfect shielding with him due to the egg...
Yoshi's shield is literally just a normal shield that doesn't shrink at all so it can never be shieldstabbed. As far as we can tell, powershields in Ultimate work like this. You release your shield as you exit shieldhitlag if you were not already in shieldstun you perform a perfect shield which negates any shield damage you would have taken and also prevents you from actually taking shieldstun while inflicting some degree of lag on your opponent based on the strength of whatever you just parried. There's no obvious reason Yoshi should be a special case here; shield size doesn't seem mechanically relevant. In practice it might matter a little, but it should be purely favorable to Yoshi as the consistent size of his shield will make the timing per any given attack consistent as well while other characters will have a small timing mix-up based on how diminished their shields are.
 
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Chrono.

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Why?

He'd be getting in ALONGSIDE Geno.

And who knows there's a slight change that could happen. It's very interesting that the Nintendo tweet about RPG was ''Team Geno?" or ''Team Mallow?"
Unless he's an echo of someone I can't see Mallow making it in.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I'd like to see a tag team with Mallow and Geno where if you press Down B it switches between them

They are from an RPG like Pokemon Trainer
 
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Shroob

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I always feel bad for Mallow.

He not only joins earlier than Geno but honestly has more of a character arc for him through the game IMO, yet Geno's just 'cooler'.
 

AreJay25

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Mallow seems more like an Assist Trophy, can't see him making it as a playable character.

It'd be kinda neat to have all of the party members playable though.
 

WaxPython

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You say "yet another fire type" as if Charizard wasn't the only one we have. ....and go and suggest Arcanine. "Yet another" Fire type.

And Salamence, who is basically a stereotypical fire-breathing dragon.....just like Charizard.....
And Dragonite....who while is ironically less of a stereotypical fire-breathing dragon than Salamence, is much more like Charizard in design and concept than Incineroar ever would be.....

And while we're getting types into this, since apparently a second Fire type is a big deal, you suggest "yet another" Grass type and "yet another" Psychic type (one which would actually have a similar fighting style to Mewtwo, when you get down to how Alakazam works).

....yeah, methinks you didn't think this through.
I meant it theoretically. I think having other types is fine but Charizard is the perfect fire type we don't need any others.

I only wanted Arcanine, and Alakazam as part of a set with Rhydon for Blue to keep with the rival theme in smash ultimate.

Nothing about Dragonite and Salamance are stereotypical besides the fact they are dragons.

Those are just my preferences design wise not really fond of Gen 7 designs imho
 

Pakky

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Unless he's an echo of someone I can't see Mallow making it in.
An Echo of who?

I meant it theoretically. I think having other types is fine but Charizard is the perfect fire type we don't need any others.

I only wanted Arcanine, and Alakazam as part of a set with Rhydon for Blue to keep with the rival theme in smash ultimate.

Nothing about Dragonite and Salamance are stereotypical besides the fact they are dragons.

Those are just my preferences design wise not really fond of Gen 7 designs imho
Mate with all do respect what are you on about?

Squirtle and Greninja are both water starters and yet are totally different.

I mean in the case of Charizard verse Inceniroar you have a bipedal fire-breathing, flying dragon and a bipedal wrestling tiger, with a fire-breathing belt.

These things lead themselves to be different as is the concept with most starters.


When comes to pokemon or any character do your research. Movepool wise Inceniroar can be A LOT of things in smash on top of being a heavy wrestler.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Why?

He'd be getting in ALONGSIDE Geno.

And who knows there's a slight change that could happen. It's very interesting that the Nintendo tweet about RPG was ''Team Geno?" or ''Team Mallow?"
I misinterpreted your post. I thought you said Mallow getting in instead of Geno.
 

MBRedboy31

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Alright screw this, I’m proven wrong by both of you.

Let’s talk about something else, something that bugs me, the N64 stages.

Why didn’t they outright remaster them from scratch like they did with the Melee stages?
Even though they weren't changed as much, it's interesting to see how some of them were still changed quite a bit, one of the most obvious ones being Peach's Castle:

Another interesting difference is how Mushroom Kingdom was changed to use textures closer to that of the original Super Mario Bros.
 

Zinith

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Yoshi's shield is literally just a normal shield that doesn't shrink at all so it can never be shieldstabbed. As far as we can tell, powershields in Ultimate work like this. You release your shield as you exit shieldhitlag if you were not already in shieldstun you perform a perfect shield which negates any shield damage you would have taken and also prevents you from actually taking shieldstun while inflicting some degree of lag on your opponent based on the strength of whatever you just parried. There's no obvious reason Yoshi should be a special case here; shield size doesn't seem mechanically relevant. In practice it might matter a little, but it should be purely favorable to Yoshi as the consistent size of his shield will make the timing per any given attack consistent as well while other characters will have a small timing mix-up based on how diminished their shields are.
Yoshi IS a special case due to the frames of animation used to enter and exit shield.
 

Dee Dude

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What are the chances we may see Mallow as an Assist Trophy?
50/50 if Geno happens.

But it would be unfair if Geno and an obligatory Forest Maze remix were the only SMRPG content to happen unless SE becomes stingy with them as well.

I personally want a Geno/Mallow tag-team, some Smithy gang trophies (Axem Rangers, Boshi) and a fair amount of tracks which could be in the possible Mario spin off section on the Music menu.
 
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WaxPython

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An Echo of who?



Mate with all do respect what are you on about?

Squirtle and Greninja are both water starters and yet are totally different.
I don't think they're that different personally, take away the ninja theme with Greninja and you have another Squirtle.

Incineroar I would be ok with if he had a more unique design. Right now I see him more as a Charizard type fighter another heavy fire compared to another fire type but fast fighter like Arcanine.
 
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Deoxys911

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Even though they weren't changed as much, it's interesting to see how some of them were still changed quite a bit, one of the most obvious ones being Peach's Castle:

Another interesting difference is how Mushroom Kingdom was changed to use textures closer to that of the original Super Mario Bros.
The one that seems quite inexplicable to me is how they completely changed the texture on the top part of the Silph Co. building. They used similar colors and shapes, but it's significantly different. Why? Silly things like this bother me when I'm not actively playing the game.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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Yoshi IS a special case due to the frames of animation used to enter and exit shield.
Every character has some frames of start-up and cooldown to shielding though (more accurately, some minimum shielding frames and some cooldown since you actually begin blocking from f1) so Yoshi having different numbers (assuming they're even still different in Ultimate) shouldn't be mechanically relevant to powershielding mechanics in Ultimate which don't seem to depend on these properties at all.

On another note, you suggested they should fix some of Yoshi's options, but other than Egg Roll which is "the move you do by mistake and then you die" and has no obvious path to improvement other than being removed from the game, which of Yoshi's options are you unhappy with? One of the upsides of Yoshi is that almost all of his moves are somehow useful, and while I suppose Yoshi Bomb is really not a great move either, it has its niches to snap down to ledges if nothing else and is the kind of move I definitely see the dev team as very unlikely to make too good since it's a massive scrub killer (weaker players get hit by this sort of move all the time).
 

cothero

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My guess is that they'll push the direct to some date between 09/12 and 09/14, it's not going to be 09/11 for obvious reasons, but it will be aired next week, that's for sure.
 
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Pakky

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I don't think they're that different personally, take away the ninja theme with the ninja and you have another Squirlte.

Incineroar I would be ok with if he had a more unique design. Right now I see him more as a Charizard type fighter another heavy fire compared to another fire type but fast fighter like Arcanine.
So Squirtle has a counter and a charging projectile that can do damage and carry you off stage?

Define unique? Because being heavy and being a fire type does not translate into being Charizard.
 
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Shroob

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My guess is that they'll push the direct to some date between 09/12 and 09/14, i don't think it'll be 09/11 for obvious reasons, but it will be aired next week, that's for sure.
As an American, 9/11 is literally only a big deal in America.

They released Super Mario Maker on 9/11 in the past, I wouldn't expect a Japanese company like Nintendo to really care about a date like that.
 

LetterO

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I honestly really hope that we get an animated cutscene for the intro of the game, like Melee. I love Melee’s opening (and the theme) and I hope we get a similar one for Ultimate as unlikely as it is.
 

WaxPython

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So Squirtle has a counter and a charging projectile that can do damage and carry you off stage?

Define unique?
He has water gun which pushes people of a stage same same. Just doesn't do damage.

Are you really going to use a counter as a counter argument lol? Every fire emblem character has one and Lucario has one too.

Greninja is in because Sakurai wanted a gen 7 rep and his design was the coolest out of all the starters nothing wrong with that. Doesn't make him unique though.

Unique is subjective and varies from person to person. No clear cut definition on what makes a fighter unique and people will disagree.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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To me wah only means Wario. I went to look for a good funny picture involving Wario and timeouts since that's what he was known for in Brawl (and he's a garbage character in 4 mostly so Brawl Wario is the relevant one). Today the internet has disappointed me; it seems like at least as far as the first page of google search is concerned Wario's clock running ways have been forgotten. We can only hope Wario will be improved in Ultimate but not with any real offensive presence so once again we can experience the joys of watching him airdodge in circles for 8 minutes while getting exactly four fully charged Wafts to threaten big damage with in the middle of all the nothing that will be happening all game.
 

Blargg888

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Perhaps the "wah" they're referring to is not of the Waluigi variety, but rather the bitter cries of tearful despair suffered by those who accidentily expose themselves to leaks.
 

Pakky

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He has water gun which pushes people of a stage same same. Just doesn't do damage.

Are you really going to use a counter as a counter argument lol? Every fire emblem character has one and Lucario has one too.

Greninja is in because Sakurai wanted a gen 7 rep and his design was the coolest out of all the starters nothing wrong with that. Doesn't make him unique though.

Unique is subjective and varies from person to person. No clear cut definition on what makes a fighter unique and people will disagree.
If it does damage wouldn't that be a difference?

Greninja has a counter and Squirtle does not, the overuse of said move does not invalidate it as a different tool.

What makes Greninja unique then?

If being 'unique' is ambiguous then why use it as a point at all?
 
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