Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

I wasn't debating worthiness. RH is plenty worthy. I was disputing the "biggest unrepresented Nintendo IP" statement, which is definitely false for # games and sales, and seems to be taken on faith popularity wise.

Again... completely ignoring the fact of ownership (which is a big deal), the Fatal Frame games dont sell very well, nor score particularly high in ratings.
Please explain why you think the series is so noteworthy... I really do not see it. All I can imagine is a personal connection. The entire series sold worse than the first Golden Sun game.

 

[Shroob]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

That's highly unlikely. That's probably just people meme-ing in poor taste.

 

[BlueMagician]

I do find it interesting that the typhoon wasn't enough to delay the Direct. But then Hokkaido's expected to have power outages for a week.

 

[potato69]

Want: happiness and peace among smash bros community
Expect: disappointment

Well, I guess my expectations didn't fail me this time. Building up my perfect track record for when I drop the sickest leak of all time next month /s

On a serious note, I hope the people who are affected by the earthquake do okay. It sucks to have to deal with that sort of thing, and I totally understand Nintendo's decision to push back the direct.

 

[Enchess]

Does publishing rights mean you own the game and the characters?

currently co-owned by Koei Tecmo and Nintendo

Ok, at this point you are just ignoring facts in your own post... I get it, you don't want Fatal Frame.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't think anyone should judge characters on their "worth", after all the only characters deserving to be in Smash are the ones included in the original 12.

But as far as Baxter and Forthington go:
I mean, you're not wrong.

I wasn't debating worthiness. RH is plenty worthy. I was disputing the "biggest unrepresented Nintendo IP" statement, which is definitely false for # games and sales, and seems to be taken on faith popularity wise.

let me just clarify what I meant by that: Debating over a series is really boring and it's underselling a series (and it's character) entirely

Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun debates don't really interest me because it's the same kneejerking (with half of the time at least, completely incorrect information) over discussing the series instead of the characters. Looking at the characters they can each provide, it's clear to see the potential on many levels.

Anyways, how would Baxter and Forthington function?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Jigglypuff? Forget Ness and Lucas. You think Jigglypuff "deserves" to be in and not Pokemon Trainer?

Does publishing rights mean you own the game and the characters? I'm gonna quote the exact phrase google gives, once again.

"Fatal Frame, titled Zero (零 〜zero〜) in Japan and Project Zero in Europe, is a survival horror video game series created and primarily developed by Koei Tecmo (originallyTecmo), and currently co-owned by Koei Tecmo and Nintendo."

Probably not unless KT signed up for a crappy agreement.

The quote you've given would imply Nintendo owns the characters and games.

 

[Misery Brick]

Jigglypuff? Forget Ness and Lucas. You think Jigglypuff "deserves" to be in and not Pokemon Trainer?

I mean she's there, and always will be just because of seniority.
But she's really the only exception to the rule, but even then. I think she kinda fits within the conceit of Smash, regardless of however people feel.
You can't tell me that anyone else on the roster is undeserving of their spot though.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

It is possible I suppose... but honestly, so many servers seem to be down in Japan, I cannot see how the direct would have happened.

 

[N3ON]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

Ho-lee-**** if people start reading into the earthquake to speculate Smash.

Well I guess they've already started. Holy ****.

 

[Darkfur]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

That is a tragic and feasible point. That would have been awkward if true.

 

[PLATINUM7]

You can't tell me that anyone else on the roster is undeserving of their spot though.

I'm sure people would like to try.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Ok, at this point you are just ignoring facts in your own post... I get it, you don't want Fatal Frame.

Co owned means Nintendo cannot just do whatever it wants with them. *see Geno *see half the Marvel characters lost forever in the void of multiple ownership.
I don't give a damn about Fatal Frame, Im just asking you to defend the series, which clearly, you cannot.

 

[Deleted member]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1037596347979812864

The direct is delayed.

Hope everyone in Japan is doing well and is safe, especially our users here!!!

To be honest, I kinda had a feeling this would happen. What concerns me a bit, though, is that this is the first time Nintendo has ever done this.

Even back in 2011 when Japan had that huge M.9 + tsunami combo happen, they were able to still come out fine, but a lot of Japanese developers were affected heavily. I remember the reason why Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3 happened was because of how the earthquake and tsunami affected their plans, so they went with making another revision.

The fact that Nintendo had to delay set plans, especially as big as a Direct? Worries me a good amount, to say the least, not to mention to add all of my Japanese colleagues that I've worked with that are going through this, too. I'm really hoping Japan can get out of this without having to deal with more damage and everyone can find some solace in the upcoming days.

 

[Jetsurge]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

Kind of makes sense

 

[PLATINUM7]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

I took this as a joke that Isaac caused an earthquake and delayed the direct until I saw other responses.

 

[Shroob]

Ho-lee-**** if people start reading into the earthquake to speculate Smash.

Well I guess they've already started. Holy ****.

I don't believe it for a second, but Japan is super sensitive about Earthquakes. They've flat out banned episodes of Pokemon from ever re-airing due to them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean she's there, and always will be just because of seniority.
But she's really the only exception to the rule, but even then. I think she kinda fits within the conceit of Smash, regardless of however people feel.
You can't tell me that anyone else on the roster is undeserving of their spot though.

I will tell many people dont deserve a spot, they just happened to get them. Bayonetta, Lucina, Dark Pit, Corrin... lucky characters.
I do not understand where from the consensus came that the OG12 could not be cut. Sakurai flat out stated that he was going to cut both Ness and Jigglypuff at different points.

 

[IsmaR]

I've seen speculation that Isaac was going to be the revealed character and him using an earthquake in the trailer and that's part of the reason it got delayed.

As someone that has worked in disaster relief before, and even as a joke, please don't.

Not insinuating you yourself said/thinks like this, but it's poor taste either way.

The possibility of a reveal aside, they didn't delay an entire Direct just for one scene like that.

 

[N3ON]

I don't believe it for a second, but Japan is super sensitive about Earthquakes. They've flat out banned episodes of Pokemon from ever re-airing due to them.

Well if there is an earthquake in Isaac's trailer, they'll probably swap him out for a different reveal and sit on his trailer til close to launch.

Which would suck if true. I mean... not as much as experiencing an actual earthquake... and a typhoon... so nvm...

Stupid earthquake.

EmbarrassEmbarrass

 

[Enchess]

Again... completely ignoring the fact of ownership (which is a big deal), the Fatal Frame games dont sell very well, nor score particularly high in ratings.
Please explain why you think the series is so noteworthy... I really do not see it. All I can imagine is a personal connection. The entire series sold worse than the first Golden Sun game.

I'm gonna take it you aren't much into horror.

It's a game frequently cited as an influence, it's frequently brought up in debates of best horror games of all time, it's a notable aspect of Nintendo history, it's managed to grow into multimedia franchise, Tecmo certainly considers it important, Sakurai has already seen fit to include some amount of representation in Smash, the game has incredibly unique mechanics that make it stand out from the genre...

Co owned means Nintendo cannot just do whatever it wants with them. *see Geno *see half the Marvel characters lost forever in the void of multiple ownership.
I don't give a damn about Fatal Frame, Im just asking you to defend the series, which clearly, you cannot.

Geno isn't co owned. He's literally in a much worse rights scenario. Nintendo has already put Mio in Smash as a trophy, I don't think rights are in any way holding her back as playable. it's also definitely not influence or historical value holding her back. It's purely series popularity, which holds back a ton of characters suggested here like Lip and Dillon.

 

[Deleted member]

Just saw the news about the Direct delay. Completely understandable, and I believe delaying it was the right thing to do.

Thoughts and prayers go out to those in Japan. I hope with all my heart no one was harmed and that people are safe and okay.

 

[LetterO]

As someone that has worked in disaster relief before, and even as a joke, please don't.

Not insinuating you yourself said/thinks like this, but it's poor taste either way.

The possibility of a reveal aside, they didn't delay an entire Direct just for one scene like that.

I think they meant that it’s speculated the direct had an Isaac reveal trailer that involved him using an earthquake move that they’d have to change for obvious reasons.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So final prediction for tomorrow guys?

I'm predicting Isaac and Skull Kid.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm gonna take it you aren't much into horror.

It's a game frequently cited as an influence, it's frequently brought up in debates of best horror games of all time, it's a notable aspect of Nintendo history, it's managed to grow into multimedia franchise, Tecmo certainly considers it important, Sakurai has already seen fit to include some amount of representation in Smash, the game has incredibly unique mechanics that make it stand out from the genre...

By that logic, Silent Hill (FF's predecessor) makes more sense. I'd also argue Silent Hill is more iconic. But that's about as weighted of a statement as anything above. Just phrasing.

How is FF a multimedia franchise? I will admit I am just using Wikipedia, but wiki refers to it as a series and a game. Silent Hill? I actively remember the movie.
How does Tecmo consider it important?
how is it a notable aspect of Nintendo's history?
What mechanics make it stand out?

Please flesh out your thoughts, because I'm looking forward to knowing why its important.

And Pardon. No Geno is not owned by both, I meant Super Mario RPG, wherein the rights are mixed between the two.

 

[Flynn__]

I can't believe that people are speculating about the earthquake's connection to Smash Ultimate Even if Isaac was going to be revealed and there was an earthquake in his trailer (which, given Japan's history with earthquakes, I highly doubt), I think it's just because of empathy for their own country that they are delaying the Direct. I mean, people have died and disappeared in this earthquake, so after that I don't think anyone in Japan is in a happy mood.

 

[Zinith]

So an earthquake in Hokkaido delayed the Direct?

....well, I hope they're all safe

 

[Misery Brick]

I will tell many people dont deserve a spot, they just happened to get them. Bayonetta, Lucina, Dark Pit, Corrin... lucky characters.
I do not understand where from the consensus came that the OG12 could not be cut. Sakurai flat out stated that he was going to cut both Ness and Jigglypuff at different points.

Well I suppose it'd be more fitting to say the original 8 then, but I still feel that F-Zero and MOTHER, and obviously Luigi deserve their spot in Smash Bros. as the former two represent different corners of Nintendo that the rest doesn't.
Yeah, many of them are just lucky for their inclusion, but I don't think that should take away anything from that character or their series.
They represented what Nintendo was and still represent something they still are to this day despite their changing landscape.

 

[Shroob]

https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1037599976917028864

Serebii himself thinks they delayed the Direct due to something in it being 'insensitive'.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

As someone that has worked in disaster relief before, and even as a joke, please don't.

Not insinuating you yourself said/thinks like this, but it's poor taste either way.

The possibility of a reveal aside, they didn't delay an entire Direct just for one scene like that.

if it's insensitive, no matter what content it is (i.e. a game reveal) it was probably a better idea not to show what they had for the sake of respect.

That's something I can definitely understand.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well I suppose it'd be more fitting to say the original 8 then, but I still feel that F-Zero and MOTHER, and obviously Luigi deserve their spot in Smash Bros. as the former two represent different corners of Nintendo that the rest doesn't.
Yeah, many of them are just lucky for their inclusion, but I don't think that should take away anything from that character or their series.
They represented what Nintendo was and still represent something they still are to this day despite their changing landscape.

I did not intend to imply that every character does not add something to the mix (though, I'd see a point that characters like Dark Pit dont really add anything), but your point was of "deserving." That word.

 

[potato69]

The earthquake is a event that definitely warrants a delay, regardless of the content of the direct. It could be because of power outages, inappropriate timing, etc. It should not serve as a hint.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Dang, didn’t see this coming but it makes sense. Props for Nintendo for recognizing a disaster and thinking of the victims. This isn’t the first time a Japanese company delayed content in an emergency. If I recall, DLC for MvC3 was halted since the game came out right before the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami that killed more than 15,000 people. That’s why UMvC3 was released later in the year. Though from what I can tell, not so many people are overly concerned about it. Business as usual with comments like “that was scary what happened in hokkaido” or “this has been a crazy summer.” Since I live in a snowy area during winter, many seemed concerned we might see record snow.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have to wonder how long this delay is going to be.

Japan is hit pretty bad.

 

[Enchess]

By that logic, Silent Hill (FF's predecessor) makes more sense. I'd also argue Silent Hill is more iconic. But that's about as weighted of a statement as anything above. Just phrasing.

How is FF a multimedia franchise? I will admit I am just using Wikipedia, but wiki refers to it as a series and a game. Silent Hill? I actively remember the movie.
How does Tecmo consider it important?
how is it a notable aspect of Nintendo's history?
What mechanics make it stand out?

Please flesh out your thoughts, because I'm looking forward to knowing why its important.

There's a movie, a manga, and a novel. There's also a Hollywood adaption that pops up every few years.

Tecmo can explain it's feelings:
"...as Koei Tecmo we believe this is one of our valuable IPs"

It's Nintendo's only horror franchise (Eternal Darkness is only one game), it's the Bayonetta deal years before Bayonetta (Nintendo steps in for previously non-Nintendo franchise and makes it Nintendo exclusive), it's one of the only notable Wii U games

The camera based combat is half of the gameplay and it's not something with any close equivalent in it's competitors. It's not anything like shooting a gun. It's reactive, not proactive. It's incredibly timing sensitive rather than aim sensitive. It also causes extreme perspective shifts, which is unique.

 

[Shroob]

I have to wonder how long this delay is going to be.

Japan is hit pretty bad.

At least a week, bare minimum. I can't see any direct for a long, long while now with basically most of Hokkaido's power out.

 

[potato69]

So final prediction for tomorrow guys?

I'm predicting Isaac and Skull Kid.

bruh

 

[Misery Brick]

I think they meant that it’s speculated the direct had an Isaac reveal trailer that involved him using an earthquake move that they’d have to change for obvious reasons.

Okay, I get where people are coming from with that line of thinking.
However, I think it's ****ing insane and disrespectful that people will try to correlate that with Smash and use that as an excuse or evidence for a character's inclusion.

This is a real world event, it most assuredly has nothing to do with Smash of all things. They're delaying it as these people working at Nintendo actually live in Japan, and have to attend to the crisis as it's possibly affecting their personal life or well being.

 

[Deleted member]

https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1037599976917028864

Serebii himself thinks they delayed the Direct due to something in it being 'insensitive'.

Or, y'know, maybe it's because Japan is having what practically is a repeat of 2011 after a massive heatwave, two earthquakes and a typhoon? Maybe they delayed it, y'know, out of respect?

It really doesn't matter what contents are in the Direct, we know that Japan is always careful about what they show. Serebii has been right in the past, but this is a bit of grasping straws.

 

[BlueMagician]

It's most likely they delayed it because people in Hokkaido are having trouble connecting to the internet, though I guess a Whiscash situation could apply to ANY game in the Direct as well.