Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SvartWolf]

ALRIGHT, TIME TO GO REALLY OBSCURE FOR THIS ONE!

INTRODUCING NEWCOMER ORBITAL FRAME JEHUTY FROM ZONE OF THE ENDERS

Jehuty's echo would clearly be Anubis as well, the rival frame that's on par with Jehuty's power.

Assist trophy would be Ken and Ardjet.

The stage would be Mars, of course, where players have to watch out for certain ZOE bosses like Zakat, Nephtis, Neith, Tempest, Inhert, and Doloris!

The alternate costumes for Jehuty are as follows, Jehuty piloted with Leo (Regular Jehuty will be piloted by Dingo) and Naked Jehuty

The franchise trophies would be Ken and Ardjet, Leo Stenbuck and Vic Viper, Dingo Egret and Jehuty, Viola Gyune and Neith, Nephtis and AI Viola, Inhert and Lloyd, and Ridley Hardiman (Nohman) and Anubis.

The stage music is

And the reveal trailer would have Snake at Shadow Moses Island, sneaking around the place. He then sees a large black container being guarded by troops and GEKOS. Just as he tries to get out, we see a BAHRAM Fleet blow the place to smithereens. The Exposion subsides and then JEHUTY RUNS INTO THE FIGHT. Then a small character trailer until we see Anubis come down where it says ANUBIS CLAIMS HIS VICTORY

Damn... while is obviously not happening... now i need at least one Z.O.E track in the game.

 

[Will]

With a Direct on the horizon...there's something I want to iron out. There's an argument I've seen make the rounds sometimes isn't being used consistently.

One of the claims toward the Incineroar rumor being legitimate is the idea that Ash'a Torracat has a rivalry of sorts with an Incineroar that Kukui uses when in his Masked Royal persona. According to these claims, this rivalry must be pointing toward Ash's Torracat evolving soon, taking over the ace role, and being one thing that justifies the rumored Smash inclusion.

The problem? It completely overlooks a different anime rivalry.

Meet Gladion and his Midnight Lycanroc. He does have Silvally in the anime canon (and also an Umbreon), but for whatever reason, his Lycanroc has had the most use. He's been the closest Ash has had to a traditional rival for the Alola region, showing up many times so far, both as an ally and as someone to battle. Ash's Lycanroc also has a score to settle with Gladion's, seeing him as a high bar to reach after a first match that was...one-sided.

He's also showed up consistently for the last year and a half. You see, Kukui's Incineroar has actually only appeared in two episodes so far, a pair of self-contained ones based around the Royal Arena. Meanwhile, Gladion and his Lycanroc have appeared in 15 episodes and counting, and have been actively involved in major plot events multiple times. Including the Necrozma arc that is happening as we speak:

But thing is, this isn't the even the only "rival" Lycanroc in the anime! Olivia has one too, a Midday who appeared in a handful of episodes, and was a mini-rival of sorts for the Akala arc. Notably, the anime writers went out of their way to give her a different form than the Midnight she has in the games, so there wouldn't be multiple characters running around who were physically identical.

The Akala arc culminated with Ash's Grand Trail against Olivia, which ended with his then-Rockruff in a 1v1 against Olivia's Lycanroc, and barely pulling through with some clutch moves.

And, Olivia's and Gladion's Lycanrocs were both present when Ash's Rockruff evolved.

So then, why does a two episode clash between Ash's Litten/Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar--who hasn't ever shown up outside those episodes--count as proof toward a Smash inclusion, yet a long term rivalry involving two other Lycanrocs, each of which has appeared more often and one of which keeps showing up when important stuff happens, does not? I know the anime doesn't automatically point toward who gets in, but if we're going to use it as precedent, can we at least be consistent about it?

Or we could avoid Pokemon arguments altogether.

 

[Shroob]

With a Direct on the horizon...there's something I want to iron out. There's an argument I've seen make the rounds sometimes isn't being used consistently.

One of the claims toward the Incineroar rumor being legitimate is the idea that Ash'a Torracat has a rivalry of sorts with an Incineroar that Kukui uses when in his Masked Royal persona. According to these claims, this rivalry must be pointing toward Ash's Torracat evolving soon, taking over the ace role, and being one thing that justifies the rumored Smash inclusion.

The problem? It completely overlooks a different anime rivalry.

Meet Gladion and his Midnight Lycanroc. He does have Silvally in the anime canon (and also an Umbreon), but for whatever reason, his Lycanroc has had the most use. He's been the closest Ash has had to a traditional rival for the Alola region, showing up many times so far, both as an ally and as someone to battle. Ash's Lycanroc also has a score to settle with Gladion's, seeing him as a high bar to reach after a first match that was...one-sided.

He's also showed up consistently for the last year and a half. You see, Kukui's Incineroar has actually only appeared in two episodes so far, a pair of self-contained ones based around the Royal Arena. Meanwhile, Gladion and his Lycanroc have appeared in 15 episodes and counting, and have been actively involved in major plot events multiple times. Including the Necrozma arc that is happening as we speak:

But thing is, this isn't the even the only "rival" Lycanroc in the anime! Olivia has one too, a Midday who appeared in a handful of episodes, and was a mini-rival of sorts for the Akala arc. Notably, the anime writers went out of their way to give her a different form than the Midnight she has in the games, so there wouldn't be multiple characters running around who were physically identical.

The Akala arc culminated with Ash's Grand Trail against Olivia, which ended with his then-Rockruff in a 1v1 against Olivia's Lycanroc, and barely pulling through with some clutch moves.

And, Olivia's and Gladion's Lycanrocs were both present when Ash's Rockruff evolved.

So then, why does a two episode clash between Ash's Litten/Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar--who hasn't ever shown up outside those episodes--count as proof toward a Smash inclusion, yet a long term rivalry involving two other Lycanrocs, each of which has appeared more often and one of which keeps showing up when important stuff happens, does not? I know the anime doesn't automatically point toward who gets in, but if we're going to use it as precedent, can we at least be consistent about it?

I don't think I've ever heard about a 'rivalry'.


Just that Ash's Torracat is going to evolve sooner than later.


We've SEEN Ash with an Incineroar in concept art, after all.

 

[CosmicQuark]

If I'm going to be honest, man, your constant attempts to reroute character discussion to Banjo is extremely obnoxious and it's getting tiring. Nobody wants to read multiple essays on why you think Banjo should be in Smash, you don't have to justify yourself constantly. Tone it down, please.

I was replying to someone talking about Steve over B&K--there's nothing wrong with a balanced discussion. I only really chime in about B&K when I see others do--otherwise I talk about speculation, Pokemon, Sonic, and the game in general. I save most of my B&K discussions for the B&K thread. I'll keep in mind your criticisms in the future, but I don't think it's warranted from my history.

 

[LetterO]

With a Direct on the horizon...there's something I want to iron out. There's an argument I've seen make the rounds sometimes isn't being used consistently.

One of the claims toward the Incineroar rumor being legitimate is the idea that Ash'a Torracat has a rivalry of sorts with an Incineroar that Kukui uses when in his Masked Royal persona. According to these claims, this rivalry must be pointing toward Ash's Torracat evolving soon, taking over the ace role, and being one thing that justifies the rumored Smash inclusion.

The problem? It completely overlooks a different anime rivalry.

Meet Gladion and his Midnight Lycanroc. He does have Silvally in the anime canon (and also an Umbreon), but for whatever reason, his Lycanroc has had the most use. He's been the closest Ash has had to a traditional rival for the Alola region, showing up many times so far, both as an ally and as someone to battle. Ash's Lycanroc also has a score to settle with Gladion's, seeing him as a high bar to reach after a first match that was...one-sided.

He's also showed up consistently for the last year and a half. You see, Kukui's Incineroar has actually only appeared in two episodes so far, a pair of self-contained ones based around the Royal Arena. Meanwhile, Gladion and his Lycanroc have appeared in 15 episodes and counting, and have been actively involved in major plot events multiple times. Including the Necrozma arc that is happening as we speak:

But thing is, this isn't the even the only "rival" Lycanroc in the anime! Olivia has one too, a Midday who appeared in a handful of episodes, and was a mini-rival of sorts for the Akala arc. Notably, the anime writers went out of their way to give her a different form than the Midnight she has in the games, so there wouldn't be multiple characters running around who were physically identical.

The Akala arc culminated with Ash's Grand Trail against Olivia, which ended with his then-Rockruff in a 1v1 against Olivia's Lycanroc, and barely pulling through with some clutch moves.

And, Olivia's and Gladion's Lycanrocs were both present when Ash's Rockruff evolved.

So then, why does a two episode clash between Ash's Litten/Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar--who hasn't ever shown up outside those episodes--count as proof toward a Smash inclusion, yet a long term rivalry involving two other Lycanrocs, each of which has appeared more often and one of which keeps showing up when important stuff happens, does not? I know the anime doesn't automatically point toward who gets in, but if we're going to use it as precedent, can we at least be consistent about it?

The anime shouldn't matter regardless. I doubt it affected anything.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Damn... while is obviously not happening... now i need at least one Z.O.E track in the game.

This is why Konami sucks, also please play ZOE2 IT's on steam for 30 bucks and it's a 4k rerelease with VR and new features

 

[Paperchampion23]

are seriously people fantazising that the game will release earlier? like... thinking that "finally everything is done, i can't add anything else,, let's release this thing sooner" is the kind of though that could enter Sakurai's head???

like... seriously?

It's all in good fun. Doesn't hurt to speculate XD

 

[pupNapoleon]

My thoughts on the trailers.

Inklings - I for one didn't realize it was a Smash teaser at first. I don't care for Splatoon much though so I wasn't really that invested until things went dark.

Ridley - I was expecting Elma, so I originally thought it was a Xenoblade X setting. Then I realized Shulk wasn't there, so it must be Metroid. Then Ridley crossed my mind, but I thought that'd be too good to be true. Then Mega Man got stabbed and I wondered who used a harpoon to fight. Then I became certain it was Ridley. My mind was firing off a million miles per hour trying to piece things together that entire trailer, so you can bet that I was hyped when the dragon showed up on screen.

Simon - I only knew it was him because of the leak. Otherwise, my mind would have been blown. This is why I hate leaks. Ecen though I don't fully expect them, it's kind of sad knowing that Skull Kid and Incineroar won't be able to surprise me either.

K.Rool - Yeah this was obvious, but I think it was meant to be obvious. The Dedede fakeout wouldn't have been funny if it wasn't. My sister completely missed the joke, probably because she couldn't care less about the Kremling King. I, however, just couldn't stop laughing.

My brain runs Smash possibilities 24/7.

• I thought Inklings indicated Smash (one more thing, I always think Smash), immediately. Though the symbol (which I wish they had kept in the reveals, lord was it a holy moment).
• Ridley, I also was pretty sure. I saw the shoes and called out who everyone was (I thought Megaman was Wario at first, but then figured it out... and there was no reason Megaman and Ridley would be together if not Ridley. In fact, theres no reason Samus would have been leading if it werent a Metroid character, and I never disqualified Ridley... or anyone, truly).
• Simon would have been fun, but the leak (and I avoided the one the night before, it was all the other predictions that took it away). And also, the opening sequence was very similar to the Netflix series.
• King K Rool. I knew it from the first step.

It is not to say I did not experience joy- but it is exceptionally difficult to surprise me, which can be a let down, as I love surprises.

 

[Dee Dude]

Alright in case there's Smash news tomorrow and I'm sure new gameplay footage is guaranteed.

What deconfirmations do you predict? Nothing comes without a cost after all.

 

[thespoiler]

So, I'm calling it, the game is coming earlier than we thought. Nintendo is doing this because Pokémon is underperforming, and they will use Smash to get everyone on board with the new online. I predict an October release. It's funny to release a controller almost three months before the actual game.

I also think you guys over estimate how hard Sakurai has it. He's had plenty of time, resources, and re-ued assets. The game is practically done by now.

 

[Will]

Alright in case there's Smash news tomorrow and I'm sure new gameplay footage is guaranteed.

What disconfirmations do you predict? Since nothing comes without a cost.

None because it'll probably just be a character trailer.

 

[Zinith]

The ONLY character that's been revealed so far I didn't see coming was Richter. MAYBE Dark Samus as I bought some of the "can't be an Echo" arguments.

 

[MojoRobo]

I was replying to someone talking about Steve over B&K--there's nothing wrong with a balanced discussion. I only really chime in about B&K when I see others do--otherwise I talk about speculation, Pokemon, Sonic, and the game in general. I save most of my B&K discussions for the B&K thread. I'll keep in mind your criticisms in the future, but I don't think it's warranted from my history.

What I've seen of your posts leads me to believe otherwise, but I'll leave it at that. I'd suggest just thinking about if what you're posting could be cut down in size, if you're really convinced that it'll add to the discussion. Thanks for at least listening to me.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

This would actually be funny

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Either way I hope if we get a newcomer announcement tomorrow, that it's Zelda related (just look at my avatar). I don't think Zelda characters have starred in a CGI Smash trailer yet, in either Smash 4 or Ultimate. It would be cool to see.

Zelda rep haven't starred in CGI trailers but boy that one was epic:

I would very much like to see another one like this in anime format!

 

[Shroob]

The fact that we still haven't had a Sakurai retweet is concerning.

The longer we go without one, the less likely Smash feels.

 

[fortun8]

With a Direct on the horizon...there's something I want to iron out. There's an argument I've seen make the rounds sometimes isn't being used consistently.

One of the claims toward the Incineroar rumor being legitimate is the idea that Ash'a Torracat has a rivalry of sorts with an Incineroar that Kukui uses when in his Masked Royal persona. According to these claims, this rivalry must be pointing toward Ash's Torracat evolving soon, taking over the ace role, and being one thing that justifies the rumored Smash inclusion.

The problem? It completely overlooks a different anime rivalry.

Meet Gladion and his Midnight Lycanroc. He does have Silvally in the anime canon (and also an Umbreon), but for whatever reason, his Lycanroc has had the most use. He's been the closest Ash has had to a traditional rival for the Alola region, showing up many times so far, both as an ally and as someone to battle. Ash's Lycanroc also has a score to settle with Gladion's, seeing him as a high bar to reach after a first match that was...one-sided.

He's also showed up consistently for the last year and a half. You see, Kukui's Incineroar has actually only appeared in two episodes so far, a pair of self-contained ones based around the Royal Arena. Meanwhile, Gladion and his Lycanroc have appeared in 15 episodes and counting, and have been actively involved in major plot events multiple times. Including the Necrozma arc that is happening as we speak:

But thing is, this isn't the even the only "rival" Lycanroc in the anime! Olivia has one too, a Midday who appeared in a handful of episodes, and was a mini-rival of sorts for the Akala arc. Notably, the anime writers went out of their way to give her a different form than the Midnight she has in the games, so there wouldn't be multiple characters running around who were physically identical.

The Akala arc culminated with Ash's Grand Trail against Olivia, which ended with his then-Rockruff in a 1v1 against Olivia's Lycanroc, and barely pulling through with some clutch moves.

And, Olivia's and Gladion's Lycanrocs were both present when Ash's Rockruff evolved.

So then, why does a two episode clash between Ash's Litten/Torracat and Kukui's Incineroar--who hasn't ever shown up outside those episodes--count as proof toward a Smash inclusion, yet a long term rivalry involving two other Lycanrocs, each of which has appeared more often and one of which keeps showing up when important stuff happens, does not? I know the anime doesn't automatically point toward who gets in, but if we're going to use it as precedent, can we at least be consistent about it?

it would definitely be cool to see that over Incineroar for me! it seems possible, but i'm just worried about what people would think...

i've also come to the realization that maybe we are getting a little too excited! maybe we should dial it down a bit, before we build ourselves up too far. the fall to bitterness could be really bad, but what's important to remember is that you can totally be as hype as you want for the stuff that's already here! anticipating is fun, but only if you don't get too invested and obsessed about it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What disconfirmations do you predict?

-Dillon
-Kat & Ana
-Magnus
-Phosphora
-Sable Prince
-Sheirff

 

[MojoRobo]

Y'all people getting scared over thinking the direct will have no Smash are too paranoid, honestly. It would be incredibly dumb for Nintendo to not include Smash in a general, 30 minute direct.

 

[Dee Dude]

This would actually be funny

That...would actually make alot of sense and stay true to his character.

 

[Deleted member]

My reactions to each trailer
Inklings: "Is this Smash? They literally showed everythong they could have on Splatoon, this has to be Smash. It's just like the original trailer, this is Smash, okay it IS Smash!"
Ridley: "Who is-- OH **** IT'S RIDLEY THIS IS NOT A DRILL MOTHER****ING RIDLEY IS IN HOLY **** HOLY ****ING ****"
Simon: *sees castle* "Yup it's Castlevania" *sees Medusa Head* "Castlevania" *sees Death* "castelania" *sees Conan* "castlamania"
Richter: "wait who!? What!? How!? I'm not complaining, he looks dope. WAIT IS THAT ALU-- oh no he's just an assist."
King K.Rool: *screen shakes* "oh god it's that obese crocodile isn't it?"

 

[LetterO]

The fact that we still haven't had a Sakurai retweet is concerning.

The longer we go without one, the less likely Smash feels.

First clouds, then barrels, then chairs, then poses, then cameos in other fighting games, and now we look at retweets as possible clues

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Inklings - I for one didn't realize it was a Smash teaser at first. I don't care for Splatoon much though so I wasn't really that invested until things went dark.

That’s what made the Smash teaser so perfect. Having the most obvious newcomer(s) and extremely popular new Nintendo series be given the honor in introducing the world to the next game in their biggest crossover series. No other new series has ever gotten that kind of respect from Nintendo before. Practically gave the world hype and the Splatoon series a special place in the Nintendo family

Zelda rep haven't starred in CGI trailer but boy that one was epic:

I would very much like to see another one like this in anime format!

Back when everyone thought Dark Pit was most likely a boss character or stage hazard, Palutena looked like the most op character in Smash, nearly nobody realized Viridi’s voice, Link was a cheap *****, and Wholesome Pit was just perfection as usual

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Wait you guys really haven't heard about the "Waluigi is actually playable they're just trolling us theory" till now? People were sayin this like right after the direct he was revealed in.

Though I still think it's unhealthy for his fanbase to cling to that. They're just setting themselves up for secondary disappointment

 

[Shroob]

First clouds, then barrels, then chairs, then poses, then cameos in other fighting games, and now we look at retweets as possible clues

Except retweets actually matter. Sakurai always retweets Directs with Smash news in them.

 

[Darkraid]

Any link on the crash leak on 4chan?

 

[LetterO]

Except retweets actually matter. Sakurai always retweets Directs with Smash news in them.

Retweets probably don't matter. If Sakurai doesn't retweet the announcement and there's no Smash news I'll gladly eat my words. Until then, I doubt they mean anything. I think Sakurai wants it to be a surprise if there's smash or not.

 

[Delzethin]

I don't think I've ever heard about a 'rivalry'.


Just that Ash's Torracat is going to evolve sooner than later.


We've SEEN Ash with an Incineroar in concept art, after all.

I've seen the rivalry used as "proof" several times in various places, and it's frustrating because it's rarely ever used consistently. It seems like most speculators have decided the invite must be Incineroar's to lose--just like it was treated as Decidueye's to lose up until one rumor said otherwise--when we do not know that and honestly shouldn't assume. Does everyone who was here four years ago remember what happened the last time we did that?

And for what it's worth, we don't know for sure what that sketch in the concept art entailed. For all we know, it could just be something the artist drew for fun, or maybe it's Kukui's Incineroar. We don't even know if Ash's Torracat will evolve, and even then, assuming it must be about to usurp the ace role just because it's a starter seems...misguided.

 

[Shroob]

Retweets probably don't matter. If Sakurai doesn't retweet the announcement and there's no Smash news I'll gladly eat my words. Until then, I doubt they mean anything. I don't think Sakurai wants it to be a surprise if there's smash or not.

I mean, you can literally look at any Direct with Smash news in the past and see that Sakurai retweeted it. This isn't a reach, this is just realizing what happens.

 

[Will]

I was replying to someone talking about Steve over B&K--there's nothing wrong with a balanced discussion.

Actually I never said anything about that this time. I just said I'm betting on steve because it's a win-win for me.

 

[Malkior7]

Except retweets actually matter. Sakurai always retweets Directs with Smash news in them.

He didn't for the March one with the initial reveal (he did tweet after though)

 

[Glaciacott]

You don't just change release dates on a whim, especially when the product also involves physical copies. Even if they miraculously found themselves done earlier than usual (which they should be by now), there's a host of other things to accomplish before you can get the product in people's hands.

Maybe they figured they'd sell more controllers if the controllers come with a code to download a demo of the game.... mm... maybe I should go ahead and pre-order this thing while I can...

 

[Shroob]

He didn't for the March one with the initial reveal (he did tweet after though)

In that case, that was probably for the surprise.

If Sakurai had retweeted that, literally everyone would have assumed Smash; him tweeting afterwards is proof of this.

 

[Dixie Kong]

I’m shocked we haven’t been leaked a character/series yet, or anything from this direct.

 

[LetterO]

I mean, you can literally look at any Direct with Smash news in the past and see that Sakurai retweeted it. This isn't a reach, this is just realizing what happens.

Yes, because Sakurai retweeted the March direct (he didn't). The only directs he retweeted are the E3 2018 one, and the August 8th Smash Bros. one. In both, we already knew Smash was coming.

EDIT: greninja'd

 

[Dixie Kong]

Don’t forget, Battlefield V recently received a new release date, and that comes out sooner than Smash.

 

[Will]

If no Smash happens, then it just means it's being saved for either

1. another Smash direct
2. a whole direct for a single announcement ala robin and lucina
3. for their chance... another day

 

[Shroob]

Yes, because Sakurai retweeted the March direct (he didn't). The only directs he retweeted are the E3 2018 one, and the August 8th Smash Bros. one. In both, we already knew Smash was coming.

EDIT: greninja'd

Except he tweeted the March one AFTER.

If he had tweeted it beforehand, literally everyone would have assumed Smash.


And this goes back all the way to Smash 4 time too. If Sakurai retweeted a Direct, you watched it.



This isn't rocket science.

 

[LetterO]

Except he tweeted the March one AFTER.

If he had tweeted it beforehand, literally everyone would have assumed Smash.


And this goes back all the way to Smash 4 time too. If Sakurai retweeted a Direct, you watched it.



This isn't rocket science.

Smash 4 times were different. I doubt Sakurai's going to ruin the surprise that Smash stuff will be announced for this direct. We shouldn't be looking for details like this to confirm or deconfirm something.

 

[Will]

Maybe Sakurai's on double duty as a security guard to make sure the intern doesn't **** up like last time with Bloody Tears.