Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MamaLuigi123456]

Personally I feel Toadsworth is a better fit for Peach's neutral special.

If Toad gets his playable slot switch the Toad in Peach's moveset to Toadsworth.

 

[NintenRob]

Personally I feel Toadsworth is a better fit for Peach's neutral special.

If Toad gets his playable slot switch the Toad in Peach's moveset to Toadsworth.

We need more Toadsworth in our life, so I'd be OK with this.

 

[PsychoJosh]

By the time Smash 4's roster was "finalized" for the project proposal (4/26/12), she only had one major appearance (Galaxy), one cameo (Galaxy 2), and two Mario Kart outings (Wii and 7) and her next appearance after those wouldn't be for another 2 years, about a year and a half after she was already planned for Smash.

She was far from a mainstay at that point in time.

That's still plenty of appearances, and she wasn't a mere cameo in Galaxy 2, she was an important plot point that appeared at the end of the game. The thing you don't understand is that Nintendo doesn't just base characters on their pasts, but also their plans for the future. They were planning to make Rosalina a mainstay of the series for a long time, and by the time Smash 4 came out that was surely the case. Being planned for Smash was just part of their plan to make her a mainstay of Mario.

She is here to stay because they recognize how important and popular she is.

-Breaths in-

lol

There are multiple toads in the universe that are all important and act the same. There are multiple Pikachus, Lucarios, Greninjas, Charizards and Jigglypuffs running around in the Pokemon universe ( Mewtwo is considered to be an "only one" type of pokemon ). They still made it in. Saying that "Toad is in peach's move-set he is not making it in lol" is not a valid excuse when there are multiple toads that are identical than even the Pokemon species itself. We can just imagine that Peach is using a different Toad compared to the Toad fighter ( that would sound weird, but go with it ).

False equivalence. Those are Pokemon, where the game is all about hunting down different species of animals that have combat abilities. The different species are the primary characters. It isn't the same as adding in a secondary/tertiary "species" of character like a Toad or a Goomba.

The people developing Smash have standards, they're not going to have a character who exists entirely as one character's special move be a playable character on its own. The whole reason Peach has a Toad move is to show that the character/race is nothing more than her own royal subjects. You even admitted that it sounds weird.

Toad is largely useless in every game he appears in anyways. The most I can see being done with him is making him a lighter and faster Peach clone with the ability to pull small vegetables out of the ground, which is honestly too dull for words.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

she was an important plot point

that appeared at the end of the game.

That's not how plot points work.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That's still plenty of appearances, and she wasn't a mere cameo in Galaxy 2, she was an important plot point that appeared at the end of the game. The thing you don't understand is that Nintendo doesn't just base characters on their pasts, but also their plans for the future. They were planning to make Rosalina a mainstay of the series for a long time, and by the time Smash 4 came out that was surely the case. Being planned for Smash was just part of their plan to make her a mainstay of Mario.

She is here to stay because they recognize how important and popular she is.

How can you be so sure if that was never confirmed though?

You're really grasping at straws here to be frank.

The most I can see being done with him is making him a lighter and faster Peach clone with the ability to pull small vegetables out of the ground, which is honestly too dull for words.

How can Toad be a Peach clone when he doesn't use 90% of her attacks? I feel you're really underestimating Toad because of your blind bias in this statement - there's plenty of power-ups and items throughout the Mario series, and since the Toads are sometimes found running Toad houses (heck Toads' heads look like Super Mushrooms), it'd make sense for him to utilize those. Furthermore, his stats of being a fast character with low jump height offer attributes that would make him far from a Peach clone in Smash if he was brought in. We also have the option of pulling more properties from Super Mario Bros. 2 - there are more items beyond vegetables in that game after all.

And that's not even mentioning Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.

 

[Luminario]

Toad is largely useless in every game he appears in anyways. The most I can see being done with him is making him a lighter and faster Peach clone with the ability to pull small vegetables out of the ground, which is honestly too dull for words.

That's rather unimaginative. What about the plethora of Mario powerups that Toad has used? Cpt Toad elements? At least let him use big turnips instead of small ones.

Onto Bandana Dee, and I was this point to be viewed separate from what I said above, it does feel like a Toad situation. Both are popular characters, stand out above the species they're a part of, have at least the workings of a moveset, and have been tacked on to fill the 4 player quota or have a support role, but both could easily be overlooked for Smash in favour of other newcomers due to simply not offering enough for the new director to give them enough attention.
Star Allies could turn it around for Dee though if he gets that special mode, but there could also be abilities not announced yet and he could just be the helper to Spear. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Deleted member]

False equivalence. Those are Pokemon, where the game is all about hunting down different species of animals that have combat abilities. The different species are the primary characters. It isn't the same as adding in a secondary/tertiary "species" of character like a Toad or a Goomba.

The people developing Smash have standards, they're not going to have a character who exists entirely as one character's special move be a playable character on its own. The whole reason Peach has a Toad move is to show that the character/race is nothing more than her own royal subjects. You even admitted that it sounds weird.

Toad is largely useless in every game he appears in anyways. The most I can see being done with him is making him a lighter and faster Peach clone with the ability to pull small vegetables out of the ground, which is honestly too dull for words.

What you said is wrong. You are missing my point.

Toads are species just like Pokemon, you can still add multiple of them and be fine. TOAD IS NOT USELESS. Also one similar move does not make a character a clone! If you wanted to make Toad a clone, than that would be weird. Toad is in many side-Mario games, he helps Mario out in the New Super Mario Brothers series, and he is just in every game. You should really do your research. Sorry if I acted a little too aggressive but still.

That's not how plot points work.

See, you are right.
Plot points are a character or something who change the action or event in a way.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Are we back to the Toad argument again?

 

[Deleted member]

Are we back to the Toad argument again?

On that note, I'm surprised there's so much discussion regarding him in the first place. You'd think that with being disconfirmed for playable status by being Peach's meatshield would have demoralized the supporters much like how Ridley's disconfirmation and Sakurai saying that Ridley can't work in Smash did exactly that. Yet he's still considered a contentious character in a franchise with seven characters, three of which are side characters and a clone. If Toad can't get in with seven characters then it doesn't matter if Captain Toad can work or not. If the next director doesn't love Toad as a character, he has essentially no chance.

Going into another tangent, it goes without saying that Sakurai will never change his mind on Ridley. For that matter, why would any potential director? Metroid as a franchise sells terribly so the chance of finding a director with a fondness towards Metroid, let alone Ridley, are silm and even the most ardent of Ridley supporters will agree that he will be especially difficult to work on. It's wise for everyone to accept Ridley as one of the big examples of a permanently disconfirmed character and for that matter, we shouldn't expect another Metroid character either simply because even if that sells well, that sales won't be reflected in Japan.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Hoo boy, looks like I kicked the hornet's nest by talking about what a worthless character Toad is. Time to sort through this mountain of blind fanboy fallacies.

That's not how plot points work.

Yeah, okay, It's true just because you say so. Whatever.

The whole point of the game from the very beginning was to help the baby Luma find its mother which was Rosalina. That's established from the start - she is the important element that drives the story forward.

How can you be so sure if that was never confirmed though?

You're really grasping at straws here to be frank.

How can Toad be a Peach clone when he doesn't use 90% of her attacks? I feel you're really underestimating Toad because of your blind bias in this statement - there's plenty of power-ups and items throughout the Mario series, and since the Toads are sometimes found running Toad houses (heck Toads' heads look like Super Mushrooms), it'd make sense for him to utilize those. Furthermore, his stats of being a fast character with low jump height offer attributes that would make him far from a Peach clone in Smash if he was brought in. We also have the option of pulling more properties from Super Mario Bros. 2 - there are more items beyond vegetables in that game after all.

And that's not even mentioning Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.

Okay, first of all, powerups in Mario are ubiquitous. Everyone can and already does use them - the most iconic ones are already used by Mario and Luigi, and the rest are items that anyone can pick up. Second, that's not really a moveset idea. How is Toad going to utilize Mario powerups in his attacks? What, you expect him to just have a bunch of "install" specials where he pulls out an item and gains a temporary effect? Is that going to be all of his attacks? Using Mario powerups because you can't think of anything else for the character is extremely lame, unimaginative and a total cop-out, and shows why he's such a bad candidate. Ooh wow, he's going to pull out a raccoon leaf, super mushroom or a starman - things that already exist in the Smash games as regular items. Okay, so let's say he has specials where he pulls out items.... is that it?? Wow, you sure changed my mind, what a great character, I mean, he doesn't have any attacks or anything, but he can pull out items!

Looks like the only one really grasping at straws here is you. If you think he's so great please come up with something concrete for him and don't just throw out "general ideas" for him. I need to see a solid moveset to understand why on earth he has potential - so far all the ideas I've seen for him are totally lame and uninspired and you guys are just begging for him because you're fanboys of the character and are blind to his flaws.

That's rather unimaginative. What about the plethora of Mario powerups that Toad has used? Cpt Toad elements? At least let him use big turnips instead of small ones.

Okay, fine, whatever, he has big turnips, so he's even MORE similar to Peach now? Like I said, come up with something that shows why exactly he has potential as a Smash character. Because if anything these ideas are really demonstrating the severe shortcomings of this character. At best, he is going to be totally redundant, if all he uses is Mario powerups and Peach's
down+B.

What you said is wrong. You are missing my point.

Toads are species just like Pokemon, you can still add multiple of them and be fine. TOAD IS NOT USELESS. Also one similar move does not make a character a clone! If you wanted to make Toad a clone, than that would be weird. Toad is in many side-Mario games, he helps Mario out in the New Super Mario Brothers series, and he is just in every game. You should really do your research. Sorry if I acted a little too aggressive but still.

So what I said about Toads being species is wrong, and then you agreed with me that Toads are species just like Pokemon? Uh... okay. So you just contradicted yourself horribly? I find it funny that you screamed "TOAD IS NOT USELESS" in all caps and didn't bother to explain why, as if saying it in all caps was a sufficient argument in of itself.

Being in many side-Mario games and helping Mario out in NSMB isn't a good enough reason for him to be in Smash. Goombas, Koopas and Piantas are in many side and main Mario games, both serving as enemies and allies, so I guess they should be playable Smash characters too? The way I see it Toad is merely a filler character in those games - he appears out of necessity, not because he's an interesting character in his own right. He's playable in SM3DW and SMB2 simply because they needed a fourth character and couldn't think of anybody else.

So far, nothing any of you have said shows me why this diaper-wearing ****** is going to be a compelling Smash character, and everything you've said just shows that you can't see past your fanboyism to see how boring he is.

I feel exactly the same way as @Fuzzy Pickles! in this scenario. Unless the next director of Smash really, really likes Toad for some inexplicable reason like the rest of you guys, he's as good as dead in regards to being roster material. There is no way a game that touts huge video game stars like Mario, DK, Link, Pac-Man, Sonic and Megaman is going to be compelled to throw win what basically amounts to a filler character like Toad, unless he's a clone of some sort. Developing a moveset for him seems like a total waste of time and development money.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Okay, first of all, powerups in Mario are ubiquitous. Everyone can and already does use them - the most iconic ones are already used by Mario and Luigi, and the rest are items that anyone can pick up. Second, that's not really a moveset idea. How is Toad going to utilize Mario powerups in his attacks? What, you expect him to just have a bunch of "install" specials where he pulls out an item and gains a temporary effect? Is that going to be all of his attacks? Using Mario powerups because you can't think of anything else for the character is extremely lame, unimaginative and a total cop-out, and shows why he's such a bad candidate. Ooh wow, he's going to pull out a raccoon leaf, super mushroom or a starman - things that already exist in the Smash games as regular items. Okay, so let's say he has specials where he pulls out items.... is that it?? Wow, you sure changed my mind, what a great character, I mean, he doesn't have any attacks or anything, but he can pull out items!

Looks like the only one really grasping at straws here is you. If you think he's so great please come up with something concrete for him and don't just throw out "general ideas" for him. I need to see a solid moveset to understand why on earth he has potential - so far all the ideas I've seen for him are totally lame and uninspired and you guys are just begging for him because you're fanboys of the character and are blind to his flaws.

I'll only say this; the fact you say that a moveset revolving around Mario power-ups is boring is pretty subjective. I for one would adore a moveset like that.

Also saying this is uncreative when you directly say you think Toad would be a clone of Peach is really hypocritical.

 

[Luminario]

Okay, fine, whatever, he has big turnips, so he's even MORE similar to Peach now? Like I said, come up with something that shows why exactly he has potential as a Smash character. Because if anything these ideas are really demonstrating the severe shortcomings of this character. At best, he is going to be totally redundant, if all he uses is Mario powerups and Peach's
down+B.

I meant big heavy turnips that he holds above his head similar to crates, as reference to how the turnips are in SMB2 and Treasure Tracker. Toad and Peach are allowed to have similarities anyway, cause as characters they're connected. I will say I've had a hard time coming up with any concrete moveset for him that meshes well together, though I don't get your hatred for the cute little guy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, it doesn't matter one bit that Toad(which there's tons of anyway, making it identical to how the Pokemon literally are. There's no actual difference, as there's a stand-out member of every species) happens to be a move. What matters is at this time Sakurai hasn't figured out a potential moveset for him yet. That's literally the only thing holding him back so far.

If it had matters, you think Sakurai would've let Toon Link be part of a stage as well as be playable? Never mind that move is so beyond replaceable it isn't even funny. Toad doesn't even fit the move anymore. It's just there because "well, no point in replacing him yet". Toads were always protectors of Peach, so it makes sense to keep him there till, you know, there's a legitimate reason to remove it. You don't break tradition for the sole sake of it, after all.

He's hardly lacking in moveset ideas, the issue is more that there's few moves that he can call directly his own, which is actually pretty important. Also part of why Captain Toad stands out more(though his inability to canonically jump, a key focus of the character, could prevent him from getting in for balance reasons. Perfect for a traditional fighter, since those have some unique bosses/characters. Not so much for a platform fighter, where jumping severely matters. Workarounds like him using a spring/cannon that replaces the jump is a good idea, as it at least keeps the essence of who they are), but also isn't the most iconic version of the character. Doesn't help he's the only canonical Mario all-star left(well, Daisy too technically, but people mostly know her due to spin-offs, not how big they are within their own series).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Hoo boy, looks like I kicked the hornet's nest by talking about what a worthless character Toad is.

Amusingly, I remember seeing a WatchMojo video that classified Toad as one of the most useless video game characters in existence. That's very harsh, especially considering that the Blue Toad and Yellow Toad have played heroic roles in a few games. And of course, Toad is the main protagonist in Wario's Woods.

 

[Cosmic77]

Going into another tangent, it goes without saying that Sakurai will never change his mind on Ridley. For that matter, why would any potential director? Metroid as a franchise sells terribly so the chance of finding a director with a fondness towards Metroid, let alone Ridley, are silm and even the most ardent of Ridley supporters will agree that he will be especially difficult to work on. It's wise for everyone to accept Ridley as one of the big examples of a permanently disconfirmed character and for that matter, we shouldn't expect another Metroid character either simply because even if that sells well, that sales won't be reflected in Japan.

I know the users here are probably tired of me defending Ridley, but you saying that we should just give up on not only Ridley's chances but also the chances of ANY Metroid character getting in Smash is just ludicrous. People who are quick to point out where Sakurai stands on Ridley seem to forget that he was also originally against the idea of Villager and Pac-Man getting in Smash. How did that turn out? I have no idea what caused him to change his mind, but regardless, the outcome shows us that Sakurai's word is never final. Whether or not he has a change of heart for Ridley and the Metroid series remains to be seen, but saying all hope is lost for a series that's not even dormant seems crazy.

And who cares if Japan doesn't want Metroid? Japan doesn't always dictate which franchises will become successful. You think the Legend of Zelda and Smash Bros. itself would still be big Nintendo IPs if NA didn't love them so much?

 

[Deleted member]

Did I just see the word all-star?
How can you talk about all-stars without even mentioning the greatest all-star of all?

Spoiler

At best, he is going to be totally redundant, if all he uses is Mario powerups

How so?

\(°|°)/

 

[Deleted member]

Did I just see the word all-star?
How can you talk about all-stars without even mentioning the greatest all-star of all?

Spoiler

I swear if this isn't Smash Mouth, I'mma be piss.

-clicks link-

You got lucky.

 

[Deleted member]

You got lucky.

shhhhh
spoilers

 

[Diddy Kong]

We need more Toadsworth in our life, so I'd be OK with this.

When he attacks he should say the grumpy, iconic : 'Oh no! Yeda bla bla bla bla' . That would be awesome.

 

[UserKev]

I know the users here are probably tired of me defending Ridley, but you saying that we should just give up on not only Ridley's chances but also the chances of ANY Metroid character getting in Smash is just ludicrous. People who are quick to point out where Sakurai stands on Ridley seem to forget that he was also originally against the idea of Villager and Pac-Man getting in Smash. How did that turn out? I have no idea what caused him to change his mind, but regardless, the outcome shows us that Sakurai's word is never final. Whether or not he has a change of heart for Ridley and the Metroid series remains to be seen, but saying all hope is lost for a series that's not even dormant seems crazy.

And who cares if Japan doesn't want Metroid? Japan doesn't always dictate which franchises will become successful. You think the Legend of Zelda and Smash Bros. itself would still be big Nintendo IPs if NA didn't love them so much?

I see glimpses of Ridley ending up confirmed. Its possible. Just right now, I believe supporting Ridley is a waste of time. Wait till Ridley's actually confirmed. Then, unlock the thread and let it blow up.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that just because Sakurai could change his mind on Ridley does not mean he neccesarily will. Don't bank on that

\(°|°)/

 

[Cosmic77]

I see glimpses of Ridley ending up confirmed. Its possible. Just right now, I believe supporting Ridley is a waste of time. Wait till Ridley's actually confirmed. Then, unlock the thread and let it blow up.

So you're saying no one should support Ridley until AFTER he's confirmed?

Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Sakurai might not direct. What's with all the people acting like he will recently? Maybe there should be a reminder post every few days.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I see glimpses of Ridley ending up confirmed. Its possible. Just right now, I believe supporting Ridley is a waste of time. Wait till Ridley's actually confirmed. Then, unlock the thread and let it blow up.

You mean like how much of a waste of time it is to tell people to stop having fun over and over again just because you don't have fun?

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai might not direct. What's with all the people acting like he will recently? Maybe there should be a reminder post every few days.

So should we say "whoever directs the next Smash" instead?

\(°|°)/

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

I see glimpses of Ridley ending up confirmed. Its possible. Just right now, I believe supporting Ridley is a waste of time. Wait till Ridley's actually confirmed. Then, unlock the thread and let it blow up.

The best way to handle who likes who for characters in Smash is peacefully letting them, even if the majority thinks the idea is crazy. Let people who want who they want give ideas, maybe people become better towards the idea. The Smash devs/Masahiro Sakurai will end up choosing whoever they want on their criteria. Last time I checked, support threads usually either become the confirmed fighters social threads or get locked.

I'm used to liking and supporting Smash capable individuals with little to no chance. My two most wanted characters were at least thought of, one made as a Mii costume. The other character was mentioned in two interviews that Source Gaming translated, one about potential misgivings on Cloud if he would have not been the choice and the other interview on one of the individuals that could utilize a "Job Switching" mechanic where Sakurai thought the mechanic was interesting. Please correct me if I was wrong on Bartz's mentions.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

For the sake of conversation, I constructed a Toad moveset. Tell me how it looks.
DISCLAIMER: I did not use Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker for this moveset (because it sucks and I hate it) because I wanted to try Toad by his own merits.

Spoiler: Toad Moveset

Toad's statistics are akin to how he controls in the mainline Mario games he appears in. He's a small character, about the size ofand about as light as. Like his mainline appearances, Toad has low jump height, about as high as, and has some pretty fast mobility overall, with ground speed comparable toand air speed comparable to . Because of his small size, he has rather poor reach, though similar to how he is able to uproot vegetables the quickest in Super Mario Bros. 2, his attacks have a surprising amount of power behind them, allowing him to be a real threat when close to enemies, which complements his high mobility. His smash attacks deal especially high damage and knockback.

Toad's special moves are a great example of Toad's attack power. They are all useful for dealing heavy damage to enemies, and are pretty reliable finishers. However, he is rather unique in how he uses these attacks. Near Toad's icon is a small, blue square, similar to the inventory box from Super Mario World. At the start of the battle, it has the number 3 in it. When Toad uses a special attack, this number will decrease to 2, then to 1, and finally to 0. When this number is reached, Toad is unable to use his special attacks. However, every 10 seconds that pass will increase this number by one, allowing him to use another special attack. The number will continue to increase until it reaches 6, where it caps off. These attributes serve as a way to compensate for Toad's powerful and versatile special attacks, and players are encouraged to save these attacks for when they need them instead of just throwing them around.

Toad's shortcomings mainly stem from his defensive play. Though he is quick and powerful, and his small frame allows him to dodge some attacks, Toad's light weight allows him to be KO'ed quite easily. This is further compounded by his low jump height. Furthermore, while Toad's up special can be pretty useful, he is unable to use it if his number is at 0; if this is the case, Toad has among the worst recovery in the game, about as much as.

In terms of his normal attacks, Toad has punches and kicks, though he also throws his body around for damage. A few notable attacks of his include: his forward smash where he jumps forward to headbutt opponents, up smash where Toad spins around, similar to Wario's up smash in Brawl, neutral aerial where he spins around, with the attack acting like a sex kick, and his up tilt where he jumps upward and flails his arms around.

As for his special attacks, they are listed below:

Spoiler: Toad Special Attacks

• Neutral Special - Item Box: Item Boxes are common items that appear in the Mario Kart series. Once collected, they will give the player a random item depending on their positioning. In Smash, Toad is actually the only character (aside from Peach and Diddy Kong) that is able to use items even with them turned off. Specifically, depending on the item he gets, he can use one of eight different items; Super Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, Green Shell, Spiny Shell, Super Star, Bob-omb, Banana, and Lightning. Much like the Mario Kart series, some items like the Lightning and Super Star will be a lot rarer than items like Green Shells and Bananas. Furthermore, items like Super Mushrooms and Super Stars will activate immediately, while others like Bob-ombs and Spiny Shells will be given to Toad for him to throw when he pleases. Similar to Mr. Game & Watch's Judge, there is a chance the move can backfire, as Toad can get a Poison Mushroom that will shrink him. As a side note, it should be noted that when the Lightning is used via Item Box, it will never backfire by enlarging the opponents or shrinking Toad.
  • Custom 1 - Safe Item Box: Toad is unable to get a Poison Mushroom, though the only items he can receive are Green Shells and Bananas.
  • Custom 2 - Frantic Item Box: Toad can collect rarer items like Lightning and Spiny Shells more often, though the chance of getting a Poison Mushroom is increases significantly.
• Side Special - Potted Piranha Plant: Potted Piranha Plants are a species of Piranha Plants that, as their name suggests, are found in pots that debuted in Super Mario 3D World. In the game, the player could pick one up and carry it around; the Piranha Plant would then eat nearby enemies like Goombas and Fuzzies, defeating them for the player. In Smash, Toad is able to take out one of these Potted Piranha Plants and throw it on the stage. Here, it will remain stationary, and begin lunging at any nearby opponents, dealing heavy damage and knockback to them. After awhile, it will disappear, though if attacked by opponents enough it will disappear only. Toad or his opponents, if they're careful enough, are able to pick it up and throw it as well, though they are about as heavy as Crates and Barrels. Only one Potted Piranha Plant can be on-screen at a time.
  • Custom 1 - Big Piranha Plant: The Potted Piranha Plant is significantly bigger and deals more damage to opponents. However, it doesn't attack as fast and cannot be picked up.
  • Custom 2 - Piranha Plant Garden: Toad is able to have up to three Potted Piranha Plants on-stage at once. However, they are smaller, deal less damage, and can be defeated with a single attack from opponents.
• Up Special - Propeller Block: Propeller Blocks is are items that debuted in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, though their appearance and use in Smash is more akin to Super Mario 3D World. Mario could find these hidden in some ? Blocks, and collecting them would gain Mario the ability to use the propeller to have a huge midair jump, as well as float downward to cover ground. In Smash, Toad uses a Propeller Block to jump high in the air, with the propeller damaging opponents multiple times before launching them. At the peak of his jump, Toad will begin floating downward, where he can be moved left or right but is left vulnerable. If hit in this state or down on the control stick is pressed, he will fall into a helpless state.
  • Custom 1 - Propeller High Jump - Toad will jump higher, but the propeller will not damage opponents.
  • Custom 2 - Armored Propeller Block - Toad gains super armor for the duration of the attack, making it impossible to knock the Propeller Block off of him. However, he doesn't jump as high.
• Down Special - Goomba's Shoe: Goomba's Shoes debuted in Super Mario Bros. 3 as items that could be used by Goombas against Mario. If Mario hit them from below, the Goomba's Shoe could them be used by him, protecting him from spiked enemies such as Spinies and Munchers. In Smash, Toad will hop in a Goomba's Shoe, jump upward, and slam on the ground, damaging opponents below him. It is similar to Bowser's Bowser Bomb and Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb, though unlike them the move can be charged by holding the special button; while charging, a Mushroom will appear above him, followed by two, then three, and then all three of them combine into a Gold Mushroom. These items will the power of the attack. When a Gold Mushroom is reached, the attack deals the most damage. In addition, a shockwave will appear upon landing, similar to what happens when the player uses a Big Goomba's Shoe in Super Mario Maker.
  • Custom 1 - Goomba's Boot: The attack cannot be charged, though Toad will meteor smash aerial opponents and bury grounded opponents as he falls.
  • Custom 2 - Goomba's Stiletto: The attack deals less damage overall, though the move does not need to be charged for the shockwave to appear.
• Final Smash - POW Block: POW Blocks are items that debuted in Mario Bros., though later appeared in Super Mario Bros. 2, where throwing them would cause an earthquake that defeated all enemies on-screen. In Smash, Toad will pull out a large POW Block for his Final Smash, which he throws to create a massive explosion that deals massive damage and knockback to all enemies in the radius. Unlike the item, its appearance and use is similar to the red POW Blocks found in newer games like New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario 3D World.

As a bonus, half of Toad's costumes are Koopaling-style Toadette costumes, with her own announcer clips, voice clips, and crowd cheers.

EDIT: no idea why this separated into two boxes but w/e.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that the Inkling thread is generally pretty inactive. I don't support the Inklings but I'm guessing it's because there's little to discuss because they're practically guaranteed.
So if we only discussed likely characters there'd be no point to discuss anything really.

\(°|°)/

 

[Cosmic77]

Reminder that the Inkling thread is generally pretty inactive. I don't support the Inklings but I'm guessing it's because there's little to discuss because they're practically guaranteed.

Basically, yes.

The Inklings aren't unpopular by any means. Most people haven't really devoted themselves to supporting the Inklings because, truthfully, they don't need the support to get in Smash. Splatoon has done so well for a new IP that people can't imagine a scenario where they don't get added.

 

[UserKev]

So you're saying no one should support Ridley until AFTER he's confirmed?

Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose?

No. It doesn't. All of you already did your part.

Do the betraying before possibility ending up betrayed.

The best way to handle who likes who for characters in Smash is peacefully letting them, even if the majority thinks the idea is crazy. Let people who want who they want give ideas, maybe they become better towards the idea. The Smash devs/Masahiro Sakurai will end up choosing whoever they want on their criteria. Last time I checked, support threads usually either become the confirmed fighters social threads or get locked.

I have no problem with it. I'm really trying to help you dudes. I jumped ship from the thread long ago. Even if I wasn't a full supporter of Ridley, I'm glad I wasn't.

Put so much dedication into something and then have it backfire in front of you. All that support could be possibility just ignored for ages, never acknowledged. And then deleted.

It isn't an, out of this world idea but, sometimes I don't understand some of you supporters.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Basically, yes.

The Inklings aren't unpopular by any means. Most people haven't really devoted themselves to supporting the Inklings because, truthfully, they don't need the support to get in Smash. Splatoon has done so well for a new IP that people can't imagine a scenario where they don't get added.

There can be some talks left over. Like what if my idea on a PS1-era Namco Museum's Museum Mode gets put in, what true alts the Inklings could have, and some others things. Imagine walking through the plaza of the Splatoon games for a Museum hall.

No. It doesn't. All of you already did your part.

Do the betraying before possibility ending up betrayed.


I have no problem with it. I'm really trying to help you dudes. I jumped ship from the thread long ago. Even if I wasn't a full supporter of Ridley, I'm glad I wasn't.

Put so much dedication into something and then have it backfire in front of you. All that support could be possibility just ignored for ages, never acknowledged. And then deleted.

It isn't an, out of this world idea but, sometimes I don't understand some of you supporters.

There's a chance things could happen since we really don't know what the future could hold. That's why supports do what they do on here. Heck, maybe some non-user visiting this site could potentially see a demand and expand on it. Without the data leaks, Street Fighter's Ryu would been more of a surprise. Considering a different person could be the director of future Smash titles, there may be a different ball game in the roster choice altogether. I think I do see where you are going on your statement on supports, which I think the topic this could lead to is better off posted elsewhere.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

As far as Ridley is concerned, if a new director thinks his size can be worked around and they add him in... yay? I guess?

Truth be told I don't really care for Ridley, but if they make him fun then I would't mind his inclusion.

 

[Staarih]

Reminder that the Inkling thread is generally pretty inactive. I don't support the Inklings but I'm guessing it's because there's little to discuss because they're practically guaranteed.

Yeah, I'll eat my hat if Inkling doesn't get in. I guess the moveset part is something that could be discussed still but many will probably just wait and see how the inevitable turns out. I remember some people pondering about the ink mechanic and I personally don't see it going to the point of using the ink for covering stages etc, but maybe just as an aesthetic element in some moves.

It isn't an, out of this world idea but, sometimes I don't understand some of you supporters.

What I don't understand is taking supporting characters way too seriously, Smash is just a video game after all. I say let anyone support whoever they want to and it's really up to them if they invest too much.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

What I don't understand is taking supporting characters way too seriously, Smash is just a video game after all. I say let anyone support whoever they want to and it's really up to them if they invest too much.

This is something I can say I truly agree on.

As for something else for talk, does anyone think an RPG spinoff of Super Smash Bros would work?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

As for something else for talk, does anyone think an RPG spinoff of Super Smash Bros would work?

It may work, but I'd prefer if Smash stayed as the only Nintendo crossover. Something would just feel... off otherwise.

Plus it'd also make releases of actual Smash less festive if this spinoff were to continue getting games.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And the winner of the last poll is the samurai Takamaru, who dominated most of everything with ease. Mike Jones at least had half the amount of his votes followed by Donbe & Hikari. The biggest flop would be Professor Hector since fans believe one Gyromite character (R.O.B.) is good enough.

Next is a another group of retro characters, one being a GB character and the other being someone believed to be deconfirmed because of Villager's Up Special. Your choices are Balloon Fighter, Foreman Spike, Muddy Mole, and Joy Mech Fight's Sukapon.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin!

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 137943

Hoo boy, looks like I kicked the hornet's nest by talking about what a worthless character Toad is. Time to sort through this mountain of blind fanboy fallacies.

Hooh boy! Stop trying to start fights, man.

Yeah, okay, It's true just because you say so. Whatever.

The whole point of the game from the very beginning was to help the baby Luma find its mother which was Rosalina. That's established from the start - she is the important element that drives the story forward.

Can you just admit that you are wrong please? Swampasaur actually does his research and he is actually right in this scenario.
That is not the whole point of the game either. The main story is that Mario has to protect the universe from Bowser, who wants to make his own empire.

Okay, first of all, powerups in Mario are ubiquitous. Everyone can and already does use them - the most iconic ones are already used by Mario and Luigi, and the rest are items that anyone can pick up. Second, that's not really a moveset idea. How is Toad going to utilize Mario powerups in his attacks? What, you expect him to just have a bunch of "install" specials where he pulls out an item and gains a temporary effect? Is that going to be all of his attacks? Using Mario powerups because you can't think of anything else for the character is extremely lame, unimaginative and a total cop-out, and shows why he's such a bad candidate. Ooh wow, he's going to pull out a raccoon leaf, super mushroom or a starman - things that already exist in the Smash games as regular items. Okay, so let's say he has specials where he pulls out items.... is that it?? Wow, you sure changed my mind, what a great character, I mean, he doesn't have any attacks or anything, but he can pull out items!

Looks like the only one really grasping at straws here is you. If you think he's so great please come up with something concrete for him and don't just throw out "general ideas" for him. I need to see a solid moveset to understand why on earth he has potential - so far all the ideas I've seen for him are totally lame and uninspired and you guys are just begging for him because you're fanboys of the character and are blind to his flaws.

Think about how Mario and Luigi can fire out fire projectiles with their hands, same can be with Toad. We actually try our best and we did use research to make our move-sets, the move-set makers tried their hardest. Also you are being too rude, cut that rudeness out.

Okay, fine, whatever, he has big turnips, so he's even MORE similar to Peach now? Like I said, come up with something that shows why exactly he has potential as a Smash character. Because if anything these ideas are really demonstrating the severe shortcomings of this character. At best, he is going to be totally redundant, if all he uses is Mario powerups and Peach's
down+B.

There is something called creating different turnips that can act different from Peach's turnips. It would not make that much sense but hey it can work out. Not all move-sets have to be pulled directly from games, like think about how Luigi has this "random launching move" and the tornado which is not from any of his games. Edit: The tornado is actually from Super Mario World, but you get the point. Not all move-sets should be 100% from the game, you can think outside the box. Like Toad's turnips can be bigger indeed and do more damage, but not have that much reach. Or Toad's turnips can actually be something different instead like bomb-ombs. Creativity is key here.

So what I said about Toads being species is wrong, and then you agreed with me that Toads are species just like Pokemon? Uh... okay. So you just contradicted yourself horribly? I find it funny that you screamed "TOAD IS NOT USELESS" in all caps and didn't bother to explain why, as if saying it in all caps was a sufficient argument in of itself.

Being in many side-Mario games and helping Mario out in NSMB isn't a good enough reason for him to be in Smash. Goombas, Koopas and Piantas are in many side and main Mario games, both serving as enemies and allies, so I guess they should be playable Smash characters too? The way I see it Toad is merely a filler character in those games - he appears out of necessity, not because he's an interesting character in his own right. He's playable in SM3DW and SMB2 simply because they needed a fourth character and couldn't think of anybody else.

So far, nothing any of you have said shows me why this diaper-wearing ****** is going to be a compelling Smash character, and everything you've said just shows that you can't see past your fanboyism to see how boring he is.

I feel exactly the same way as @Fuzzy Pickles! in this scenario. Unless the next director of Smash really, really likes Toad for some inexplicable reason like the rest of you guys, he's as good as dead in regards to being roster material. There is no way a game that touts huge video game stars like Mario, DK, Link, Pac-Man, Sonic and Megaman is going to be compelled to throw win what basically amounts to a filler character like Toad, unless he's a clone of some sort. Developing a moveset for him seems like a total waste of time and development money.

Toad is in so much Mario games, even more than Yoshi. Not just side-games but he helps Mario out in his adventures all the time. Toad is everywhere in the Mario series, in the main games and in the spin offs. I am sure Captain Toad or some other Toad could be added, but that is the director's choice. Hopefully daddy Sakurai adds Captain Toad or Toad. TOAD IS NOWHERE NEAR FILLER, AND DEVELOPING ANY MOVE-SET IS NOT A WASTE OF TIME. It is creative. Toad is not boring, he has many move-set potential. Like you can pull out something from Mario Party where he does something similar to Game and Watch, the 1-6 method. Except it is not as destructive. Toad is not useless in the Mario series, he helps Mario and Luigi in his adventures. He also constantly gives them treats in Toad houses, gives good advice, and many more. He could even be more useful than Yoshis. Can you please accept the fact that you are wrong? I will try not to continue this argument even more.

 

[Deleted member]

I will try not to continue this argument even more.

Protip: if you don't want to continue an arguement, don't respond at the first place. It can make you look bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Protip: if you don't want to continue an arguement, don't respond at the first place. It can make you look bad.

Sorry. It does make me look bad indeed. I just wanted to defend my opinion too much.

And the winner of the last poll is the samurai Takamaru, who dominated most of everything with ease. Mike Jones at least had half the amount of his votes followed by Donbe & Hikari. The biggest flop would be Professor Hector since fans believe one Gyromite character (R.O.B.) is good enough.

Next is a another group of retro characters, one being a GB character and the other being someone believed to be deconfirmed because of Villager's Up Special. Your choices are Balloon Fighter, Foreman Spike, Muddy Mole, and Joy Mech Fight's Sukapon.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin!

Balloon fighter is my choice! If they added a stage of him in the 3DS, he has hope. I would say that Villager's up-b would either have to change or it could be a problem to Balloon Fighter's arrival. The thing is, poor Balloon Man is buried deep down and it would take a miracle to add him. I think he is going to have the same case with Takamaru in Smash 4, not enough fan support + the developers not wanting to change Villager's up-b. Thoughts?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Not all move-sets have to be pulled directly from games, like think about how Luigi has this "random launching move" and the tornado which is not from any of his games. Not all move-sets should be 100% from the game, you can think outside the box.

Real quick I'd like to point out that the Mario Tornado, and by extension both Dr. Tornado and Luigi Cyclone are based off of Mario and Luigi's Spin Jump abilities from Super Mario World. Still, you are correct on that front.