Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Lukingordex]

We just listed the characters that time, not why we want them.

oh alright then. I'll do mine as well:

Nintendo:

Ashley
I always liked mages in videogames and ashley is no exception.

Isaac
Golden Sun is cool and good.

Some Advance Wars rep
idk who to choose, but i really like the games and hate how Advance Wars has been neglected in general.

Those are the only nintendo characters that i kinda care about for Smash right now. I'd be ok with any nintendo inclusion i think, just don't mind about them too much.

3rd Party
Crash Bandicoot
This dude... this dude. I'm obsessed with crash since i was a kid. If he ever got in i'd go crazy.

Bomberman
Always had a blast playing his games with friends and has a special place on my heart.

Those two are the only 3rd parties i really really really would like to see on the game. There are some other characters i'd also would be happy to see but not even near the level of those two

 

[Deleted member]

Important information, important information

BANDANA DEE HAS BEEN CONFIRMED FOR STAR ALLIES
This is especially noteworthy because we were told there were only 28 abilities and we've seen 28 NOT COUNTING SPEAR so Bandana Dee appears to be a special exception.

That makes me appreciate the game even more! With Bandanna Dee in this game, he has much more of a shot in returning to Smash for Switch! I think Bandanna Dee is worth it in Smash for Switch, I mean sure Sakurai does not want to over-represent Kirby. It is getting to the point where Kirby needs more representation. Kirby has few or no new trophies, and not that many stages that resemble the new games unlike others. Kirby is a very popular series actually, so hopefully they add Bandanna Dee and more Kirby materials and stages in Smash for Switch! Good post!

 

[NintenRob]

At this point, I reckon Bandana Dee might be the most likely character from a series already with Characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I remain skeptical on the matter.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

At this point, I reckon Bandana Dee might be the most likely character from a series already with Characters.

That is...just ridiculous. I get your excited, but KIRBY is the most likely series to get a newcomer? The series has Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta Knight so I don't understand how a series that's more than arguably complete is the most likely to receive a newcomer.

Xenobade has Rex & Pyra, Super Mario has Captain Toad, Donkey Kong has Dixie & Pauline, Animal Crossing has Isabelle, Star Fox Zero has Andross. Pikmin, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem are getting new games and already have new games like Sun/Moon & Echoes.

I mean really? Waddle Dee is playable via amiibo and now he's the most likely character?

 

[N3ON]

At this point, I reckon Bandana Dee might be the most likely character from a series already with Characters.

I think that’s damning Bandana Dee with faint praise more than actually being indicative of imminent inclusion.

I’d contend Zelda, FE, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and DK are all likelier to receive another character, Kirby is just the series with the clearest front runner.

Edit: I forgot about Rex & Pyra because I don’t like them, but yeah, they’re more likely imo.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd argue that the "frontrunner" isn't as clear as everyone thinks.

Or simply put that the idea that there's even a frontrunner at all is questionable at best.

 

[N3ON]

I'd argue that the "frontrunner" isn't as clear as everyone thinks.

Or simply put that the idea that there's even a frontrunner at all is questionable at best.

I do think Bandana Dee is clearly the front runner of the Kirby series at this point. He’s been positioned as the quaternary character within the series and has by far the most support.

I just don’t think he’ll get in because one, he’s mostly post-Sakurai, and two, Kirby is not in need of additional characters, nor would they be next to dip into their b-tier for candidates.

That doesn’t mean there can’t be an upset, but Bandana Dee appears very much next in line.

 

[Chandeelure]

Do not expect a character like it is a shoo-in, because it is very possible it will not be in the game.

Smash 4 is proof of that.

 

[NintenRob]

That is...just ridiculous. I get your excited, but KIRBY is the most likely series to get a newcomer? The series has Kirby, King Dedede, and Meta Knight so I don't understand how a series that's more than arguably complete is the most likely to receive a newcomer.

Xenobade has Rex & Pyra, Super Mario has Captain Toad, Donkey Kong has Dixie & Pauline, Animal Crossing has Isabelle, Star Fox Zero has Andross. Pikmin, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem are getting new games and already have new games like Sun/Moon & Echoes.

I mean really? Waddle Dee is playable via amiibo and now he's the most likely character?

He's not playable via amiibo, we don't know how he'll be playable yet, and I never said Kirby was most likely to get a newcomer, I said Bandana Dee individually is most likely.

I think Pokemon is more likely to get a newcomer, but there is a lot of competition within the franchise with no clear choice.

And I'm not as convinced as a Mario newcomer as others, I think they're likely but not guaranteed. Captain Toad facing his own challenge and competition.


Dixie and Rex do give him rough competition. But Dixie does face competition from K Rool (and is the same position she was in Smash Wii U, which she didn't get in) and Rex comes from a smaller series and we don't know if he'd work or if we'd get solo Pyra or even Elma.


Bandana Dee faces NO COMPETITION from his series, any other Kirby character getting in would be idiotic. Bandana Dee has proved multiple times that he's here to stay and has shown to be now the 4th core member of the series and Kirby is definitely large enough to warrant a 4th character and Bandana Dee has done more than enough to be more than simply "fourth character for sake of fourth character" he's a fan favourite and beloved within the series and this is reflected with his appearances in the games.


I don't consider him a shoo-in at all. Only Inklings I consider a shoo-in, I do consider him quite likely though.

 

[Freduardo]

Bandana Dee has more consideration for the same reason people gave Magnus any consideration for 4.

Because coming from a series with Sakurai’s fingerprints on so much of it; so much of Dee’s moveset is pretty much obvious.

I mean there’s a reason you can play as Smash Kirby in Robobot. Because the gameplay is remarkably interchangeable.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'd argue that the "frontrunner" isn't as clear as everyone thinks.

Or simply put that the idea that there's even a frontrunner at all is questionable at best.

The only newcomer whose lack of inclusion would genuinely surprise me is Inkling.

The only newcomers from already established series that I think are "likely" are Rex from Xenoblade and the obligatory new Pokémon. I fully expect there to be others, but I'm just not really sure who they'd be. It's just kind of a pool of side characters, since most series have their main characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I do think Bandana Dee is clearly the front runner of the Kirby series at this point. He’s been positioned as the quaternary character within the series and has by far the most support.

I just don’t think he’ll get in because one, he’s mostly post-Sakurai, and two, Kirby is not in need of additional characters, nor would they be next to dip into their b-tier for candidates.

That doesn’t mean there can’t be an upset, but Bandana Dee appears very much next in line.

Remember when Toad was the frontrunner for Mario because he (and the species as a whole) was the next major character in line and had been featured in many new games in starring roles?

Then Rosalina, Bowser Jr. (and the Koopalings) and Dr. Mario's return happened instead.

Do not expect a character like it is a shoo-in, because it is very possible it will not be in the game.

Smash 4 is proof of that.

This.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He's not playable via amiibo, we don't know how he'll be playable yet, and I never said Kirby was most likely to get a newcomer, I said Bandana Dee individually is most likely.

You said Waddle Dee was the most likely newcomer from a series with characters. That series being Kirby. So that's actually exactly what you said.

And I'm not as convinced as a Mario newcomer as others, I think they're likely but not guaranteed. Captain Toad facing his own challenge and competition.

I'm not confident in a Mario OR Donkey Kong Country newcomer. I'm just saying Captain Toad is probably a more likely decision.

Dixie and Rex do give him rough competition. But Dixie does face competition from K Rool (and is the same position she was in Smash Wii U

There's no competition from King K. Rool. King K. Rool hasn't been in a mainstream Donkey Kong Country game since Donkey Kong 64 and Dixie is clearly more popular.

, which she didn't get in) and Rex comes from a smaller series and we don't know if he'd work or if we'd get solo Pyra or even Elma.

It's a much safer bet than Waddle Dee. The main character of one of the best selling Switch games from a popular Nintendo series?

Bandana Dee faces NO COMPETITION from his series

That doesn't mean anything.

any other Kirby character getting in would be idiotic. Bandana Dee has proved multiple times that he's here to stay and has shown to be now the 4th core member of the series

I don't consider him a core member of the series. He appears in some games and some games he doesn't or is just in the background. Saying he's a core part of the series would imply he's on the same level as Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede which I just find to be ludicrous.

and Kirby is definitely large enough to warrant a 4th character

It doesn't matter if Kirby is the most popular Nintendo series ever. They didn't add Mario characters in Brawl just for the sake of having Mario characters and they didn't do that to Zelda or Kirby in Smash for Wii U either.

and Bandana Dee has done more than enough to be more than simply "fourth character for sake of fourth character"

No that's really all he is. He's either the fourth playable character or he serves a minor role helping out Kirby.

he's a fan favourite and beloved within the series and this is reflected with his appearances in the games.

See, THAT. That right there is what you should have started with. That's what actually matters.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I don't expect a Mario newcomer; in fact, a cut or two wouldn't surprise me. I doubt Donkey Kong will get a newcomer either, even though I think K. Rool ought to get in.

 

[NintenRob]

You said Waddle Dee was the most likely newcomer from a series with characters. That series being Kirby. So that's actually exactly what you said.


I'm not confident in a Mario OR Donkey Kong Country newcomer. I'm just saying Captain Toad is probably a more likely decision.



There's no competition from King K. Rool. King K. Rool hasn't been in a mainstream Donkey Kong Country game since Donkey Kong 64 and Dixie is clearly more popular.


It's a much safer bet than Waddle Dee. The main character of one of the best selling Switch games from a popular Nintendo series?



That doesn't mean anything.

I don't consider him a core member of the series. He appears in some games and some games he doesn't or is just in the background. Saying he's a core part of the series would imply he's on the same level as Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede which I just find to be ludicrous.


It doesn't matter if Kirby is the most popular Nintendo series ever. They didn't add Mario characters in Brawl just for the sake of having Mario characters and they didn't do that to Zelda or Kirby in Smash for Wii U either.


No that's really all he is. He's either the fourth playable character or he serves a minor role helping out Kirby.


See, THAT. That right there is what you should have started with. That's what actually matters.

So much of what you said is wrong

 

[N3ON]

Remember when Toad was the frontrunner for Mario because he (and the species as a whole) was the next major character in line and had been featured in many new games in starring roles?

Then Rosalina, Bowser Jr. (and the Koopalings) and Dr. Mario's return happened instead.

I see what you’re saying, but I actually don’t remember a time when Toad was believed the largely undisputed character the Mario series would next receive. I remember people saying he should be, it slips my mind when basically everyone agreed he would be. When was that?

I do remember when Diddy, Palutena, Dedede, Lucas, Bowser, etc. were included.

And like I said, of course there could be an upset, surprises happen all the time and personally I don’t even think we’re gonna get Bandana Dee or any Kirby character, but using exceptions (that I don’t think ever actually existed) to set the trend is stretching.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So much of what you said is wrong

Lol. Such as what?

 

[Luminario]

All y'all are so off the mark, the next Kirby newcomer is obviously going to be Simirror, the enemy that gives Kirby the Mirror ability.

Speaking of which, where the hell is Mirror in Star Allies anyway? It won the ability poll, it should be there.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I see what you’re saying, but I actually don’t remember a time when Toad was believed the largely undisputed character the Mario series would next receive. I remember people saying he should be, it slips my mind when basically everyone agreed he would be. When was that?

I do remember when Diddy, Palutena, Dedede, Lucas, Bowser, etc. were included.

And like I said, of course there could be an upset, surprises happen all the time and personally I don’t even think we’re gonna get Bandana Dee or any Kirby character, but using exceptions (that I don’t think ever actually existed) to set the trend is stretching.

I think Bandanna Dee would be likely if his fan base was larger. My personal opinion is that a Waddle Dee with a bandanna is not an interesting addition regardless of what his abilities are or role was in whatever Kirby game. But, what matters to me in terms of a character being likely, is if they're going to be a big draw.

I'm not convinced Waddle Dee's following is nearly large enough compared to other All-Stars. He's got internet support threads, but that's not much compared to the kinds of characters Smash 5 is facing. And I'm not saying you have to be an All-Star to be in Super Smash Bros, but All-stars are usually what's aimed for (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Robin, Greninja, Shulk, Little Mac)

 

[Chandeelure]

Characters like Robin and Shulk are All-Stars?

I mean, the definition of that concept is subjective, but I'm sure that if I ask to my friends who play videogames who are those characters, they would say that they don't know or just those anime guys from Smash that nobody cares about or something like that haha.

I also wouldn't consider Rosalina an All-Star, she is just space Peach for most people.

And no, I don't consider Bandana Dee an All-Star (that is a very powerful concept for me), but I consider Waddle Dees important and kinda recognizable considering they appear in literally every Kirby game (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises), and BD is a Waddle Dee so, yeah.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't BD one of the most popular characters in Japan according to some online polls? I don't think his fanbase is that small.

 

[NintenRob]

Lol. Such as what?

You said Waddle Dee was the most likely newcomer from a series with characters. That series being Kirby. So that's actually exactly what you said.

This for example. These are not the same thing.
Saying Bandana Dee is more likely than Thou Koko, Decidueye, Mimikyu or any other Pokemon is not the same as thinking he's more likely that a Pokemon getting in, in general. I think a Pokemon is more likely, but there is no definitive Pokemon.

To put it more simply. I think Bandana Dee is more likely than each Pokemon individually but not each of them combined.

I don't consider him a core member of the series. He appears in some games and some games he doesn't or is just in the background. Saying he's a core part of the series would imply he's on the same level as Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede which I just find to be ludicrous.

This is another. He's appeared in every physical game since Kirby Mass Attack.

He is now treated on their level, he appears constantly in promotion alongside King Dedede and Meta Knight. A very clear example is shown here in Planet Robobot

Even the generic Waddle Dee amiibo gives Kirby Bandana Dee content, such as giving Kirby a bandana in Planet Robobot.

He was Kirby's sidekick in both Rainbow Curse and Battle Royale, not number 4, not number 3. Number 2.

And now his mysterious appearance in Star Allies. Using his spear. An ability not in the game based on what has been said, suggesting he'll star in his own mode akin to Dededetour and Meta knightmare.

I think it's just denial at this point that he's now on the level of Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede. Obviously they're not on identical levels. Kirby outranks King Dedede, King Dedede outranks Meta Knight and Meta Knight outranks Bandana Dee. But together they're clearly leagues above everyone else. Bandana Dee IS now part of the core cast.

No that's really all he is. He's either the fourth playable character or he serves a minor role helping out Kirby.

And this is just wrong.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't BD one of the most popular characters in Japan according to some online polls? I don't think his fanbase is that small

Yes, I believe he was, I think I remember seeing this on sourcegaming

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Let's not get into the 'all-star' argument again.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Characters like Robin and Shulk are All-Stars?

They are the main characters of extremely popular Nintendo games, so yes they are All-stars.

I also wouldn't consider Rosalina an All-Star, she is just space Peach for most people.

One of the most popular Mario characters. She's a very popular Nintendo character, dude. She's clearly not just "space peach". Are you kidding me?! That's like calling Luigi "Green Mario".

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Space Daisy, then?

 

[Deleted member]

I see what you’re saying, but I actually don’t remember a time when Toad was believed the largely undisputed character the Mario series would next receive. I remember people saying he should be, it slips my mind when basically everyone agreed he would be. When was that?

I do remember when Diddy, Palutena, Dedede, Lucas, Bowser, etc. were included.

And like I said, of course there could be an upset, surprises happen all the time and personally I don’t even think we’re gonna get Bandana Dee or any Kirby character, but using exceptions (that I don’t think ever actually existed) to set the trend is stretching.

Literally before Rosalina was revealed.
Consensus was either just Toad, Toad and maybe Bowser Jr., or nobody.
Then everything changed when the space waifu attacked.

Also, none of those examples work in this context, Lucas being a glaring example of the opposite.

Lucas never was a "frontrunner" for the Mother series prior to his Brawl debut. If anyone ever talked about a new Mother character, it was either Kumatora or his own brother Claus. Or Flint or Poo because memes. And that was if anyone even considered the idea of a new Mother character in the first place.

Dedede? Despite being considered as the "frontrunner", we still got Meta Knight before him. Yes, Dedede made his Smash debut in the same game as him, but Meta Knight was first in more that just being revealed first if we go by their placement in Brawl's character data. And this was even with Dedede having been planned for Smash since the original game. And both were and still are more "important" characters to their franchise than either Toad or Waddle Dee are.

With that last point applying to the rest as well.
Hell, Waddle Dee was the "frontrunner" for the Kirby series before Smash 4's release. Among the biggest "frontrunners" for Smash 4 in general after the "Big 3" (with ironically none of them making it in until DLC, and it was ONLY Mewtwo).

So really, what is an "exception" and what isn't?

 

[Deleted member]

They are the main characters of extremely popular Nintendo games, so yes they are All-stars.

I wouldn't call Fire Emblem Awakening or Xenoblade 1 extremely popular, especially when far more popular Nintendo games exist. Heck, I recall plenty of people not knowing who Shulk was prior to his reveal.

 

[Chandeelure]

This for example. These are not the same thing.
Saying Bandana Dee is more likely than Thou Koko, Decidueye, Mimikyu or any other Pokemon is not the same as thinking he's more likely that a Pokemon getting in, in general. I think a Pokemon is more likely, but there is no definitive Pokemon.

To put it more simply. I think Bandana Dee is more likely than each Pokemon individually but not each of them combined.


This is another. He's appeared in every physical game since Kirby Mass Attack.

He is now treated on their level, he appears constantly in promotion alongside King Dedede and Meta Knight. A very clear example is shown here in Planet Robobot

Even the generic Waddle Dee amiibo gives Kirby Bandana Dee content, such as giving Kirby a bandana in Planet Robobot.

He was Kirby's sidekick in both Rainbow Curse and Battle Royale, not number 4, not number 3. Number 2.

And now his mysterious appearance in Star Allies. Using his spear. An ability not in the game based on what has been said, suggesting he'll star in his own mode akin to Dededetour and Meta knightmare.

I think it's just denial at this point that he's now on the level of Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede. Obviously they're not on identical levels. Kirby outranks King Dedede, King Dedede outranks Meta Knight and Meta Knight outranks Bandana Dee. But together they're clearly leagues above everyone else. Bandana Dee IS now part of the core cast.


And this is just wrong.

Yes, I believe he was, I think I remember seeing this on sourcegaming

Also, in Kirby Star Allies, you can create animated paints with the Artist ability.

And the ones you can make are Dedede, Meta Knight and Bandana Dee.

They are the main characters of extremely popular Nintendo games, so yes they are All-stars.


One of the most popular Mario characters. She's a very popular Nintendo character, dude. She's clearly not just "space peach". Are you kidding me?! That's like calling Luigi "Green Mario".

Yeah, do you talk with people who are not hardcore Nintendo fans?

None of those characters are recognizable or popular.

Oh, sorry, she is not space Peach, she is Elsa from Frozen haha.

 

[NintenRob]

Rosalina is one of my favourite characters and my most wanted character in the day.

Bandana Dee is kinda in a similar situation. Appeared in roles of varying importance but became playable and popular and started showing up in almost every Kirby game.


Although when Rosalina was decided on, she only had two galaxy's and two Mario Karts.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Although when Rosalina was decided on, she only had two galaxy's and two Mario Karts.

The amount of games she appeared in is completely irrelevant.

I wouldn't call Fire Emblem Awakening or Xenoblade 1 extremely popular

That's just factually wrong. It's one of the best selling 3DS games. This is such a dumb argument.

 

[Deleted member]

That's just factually wrong. It's one of the best selling 3DS games. This is such a dumb argument.

Regardless if that's true or not...

far more popular Nintendo games exist.

 

[NintenRob]

The amount of games she appeared in is completely irrelevant.


That's just factually wrong. It's one of the best selling 3DS games. This is such a dumb argument.

You seem to have different rules for different characters

Rosalina in Galaxy: She assisted you by providing you a hub and transport. An important ally in the game.
Bandana Dee assists you consistently since Adventure Wii. I'll admit, Rosalina was given a lot depth and touching backstory and the impact she left in this game is greater than anything most Nintendo characters can only dream of. She was stunning, she was powerful when she led the observatory through Bowsers airships. She was mysterious and touching. Her secret ending was simply beautiful.... .


Where was I? Oh Um. I love Bandana Dee, but I love Rosalina more. But aside from Galaxy 1, Bandana Dee generally holds a greater role. And being playable in multiple games can easily be argued as more important than Galaxy 1 ally.




The day Rosalina was revealed for Smash, I nearly squealed like a kid winning the lottery. Her trailer was just beautiful. I loved how misleading it was. But now I want Kirby in Mario Kart.


And the other Kirby characters too including Bandana Dee

 

[PeridotGX]

My stance on Bandana Dee is that he's definitley going to happen once Sakurai leaves. It's not impossible he happens with Sakurai, but he doesn't put in much stuff for Modern Kirby, which is almost purely what Bandana Dee is. But he has the rest of the cards in his favor, such as Moveset potential, icocicy, and almost no competition from the rest of the Kirby series. RIP Marx.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I am kind of confused who I can consider an all-star to be honest. I would say the original cast are the all-stars in my opinion, but I may be wrong. I am confused lately.

My stance on Bandana Dee is that he's definitley going to happen once Sakurai leaves. It's not impossible he happens with Sakurai, but he doesn't put in much stuff for Modern Kirby, which is almost purely what Bandana Dee is. But he has the rest of the cards in his favor, such as Moveset potential, icocicy, and almost no competition from the rest of the Kirby series. RIP Marx.

Have faith in daddy Sakurai. Sakurai has added some new Kirby stuff like in Smash 4, there is a Kirby song that came in 2014. Smash 4 came in 2014. I do agree that Bandanna Dee has high move-set potential to brighten the cast up ( we have no spear fighters yet ). Bandanna Dee for Smash for Switch!

 

[PsychoJosh]

I see what you’re saying, but I actually don’t remember a time when Toad was believed the largely undisputed character the Mario series would next receive. I remember people saying he should be, it slips my mind when basically everyone agreed he would be. When was that?

Never. It's just a delusion that Toad fanboys tell themselves ad nauseum, making them believe it's true even though they're the only ones who keep saying it.

Toad already exists as part of Peach's moveset. There's no chance he's going to be a character. He's barely assist trophy material.

Rosalina was a shoe-in. She's been an incredibly popular mainstay to the Mario series since the day she was revealed. They saw an opportunity to create a unique "puppet" character that has never been done before in Smash and they took it.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Rosalina is lame. There is only one true puppet master.

 

[Freduardo]

Anyone know when Arcade classics Punch Out finally gets released?

Because we’re all missing the most obvious Nintendo All star and shoo in.

Bald Bull.

I mean if they also announced arcade classics Arm Wrestling, I wouldn’t be entirely joking.

 

[UserKev]

Do not expect a character like it is a shoo-in, because it is very possible it will not be in the game.

Smash 4 is proof of that.

It was brutal in Ridley's case. The build up, everything. Even I was there.

 

[Deleted member]

Rosalina was a shoe-in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias

She's been an incredibly popular mainstay to the Mario series since the day she was revealed.

By the time Smash 4's roster was "finalized" for the project proposal (4/26/12), she only had one major appearance (Galaxy), one cameo (Galaxy 2), and two Mario Kart outings (Wii and 7) and her next appearance after those wouldn't be for another 2 years, about a year and a half after she was already planned for Smash.

She was far from a mainstay at that point in time.

They saw an opportunity to create a unique "puppet" character that has never been done before in Smash and they took it.

Literally the only part of this that's correct.
It was the moveset concept that got her in more than anything else.

 

[Deleted member]

Toad already exists as part of Peach's moveset. There's no chance he's going to be a character. He's barely assist trophy material.

-Breaths in-
There are multiple toads in the universe that are all important and act the same. There are multiple Pikachus, Lucarios, Greninjas, Charizards and Jigglypuffs running around in the Pokemon universe ( Mewtwo is considered to be an "only one" type of pokemon ). They still made it in. Saying that "Toad is in peach's move-set he is not making it in lol" is not a valid excuse when there are multiple toads that are identical than even the Pokemon species itself. We can just imagine that Peach is using a different Toad compared to the Toad fighter ( that would sound weird, but go with it ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight_bias


By the time Smash 4's roster was "finalized" for the project proposal (4/26/12), she only had one major appearance (Galaxy), one cameo (Galaxy 2), and two Mario Kart outings (Wii and 7) and her next appearance after those wouldn't be for another 2 years, about a year and a half after she was already planned for Smash.

She was far from a mainstay at that point in time.



Literally the only part of this that's correct.
It was the moveset concept that got her in more than anything else.

I agree with you 100%, Goldie.