Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DragonSniperNintendo]

How about this be the Fire Emblem representation in Smash 5?

-Marth
-Ike
-Robin
-Corrin
-Celica
-FE 16 Character

The most varied roster we could get with no clone-esque characters. I like Roy and have been a fan of him since Melee but he is not needed anymore and we should have more original characters. And Lucina can be an alt for Marth.

 

[Chandeelure]

Why people even complain about Counters?

First, they are fun to use.
Second, they are an important part of FE.
And third, it's literally just one move out of like 30 moves.


I say that they should mantain the 6 characters from Smash 4 and add nothing.

 

[Bowserlick]

I would say that Marth, Ike and Robin are Smash staples.

Corrin can either stay or go.

One newcomer is fine. 4-5 FE characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I would like to keep Robin as he/she was one of my top desired characters for Smash 4 but I am trying to find room for both Echoes to be repped and Fire Emblem 16. Quite frankly the easiest choices are dropping Roy and Lucina but am not sure yet.

Why would we get Echoes AND FE16 representation?

Smash has never done that before.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Why would we get Echoes AND FE16 representation?

Smash has never done that before.

One would be fairly recent and one would be practically brand new. FE16 is guaranteed practically at this point, it will fall into the same category as Awakening in Sm4sh and Path of Radiance in Brawl. Echoes is the questionable one and if it weren't included I would simply say two FE16 characters, a hero and a villain.

I would say that Marth, Ike and Robin are Smash staples.

Corrin can either stay or go.

One newcomer is fine. 4-5 FE characters.

I think Fire Emblem is in the same camp as Zelda (which it does at this point) and Pokemon to deserve 6 characters, especially alongside Pokemon as both get a bunch of new character variety each new game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

One would be fairly recent and one would be practically brand new. FE16 is guaranteed practically at this point, it will fall into the same category as Awakening in Sm4sh and Path of Radiance in Brawl. Echoes is the questionable one and if it weren't included I would simply say two FE16 characters, a hero and a villain.

Why do we need two characters from that game?

And why does one have to be a villain?

 

[Bowserlick]

Why people even complain about Counters?

First, they are fun to use.
Second, they are an important part of FE.
And third, it's literally just one move out of like 30 moves.


I say that they should mantain the 6 characters from Smash 4 and add nothing.

Counters can be managed better and specialized in order to broaden design opportunities.

Traditional counters should either deal knockback and low damage, high damage and low knockback, or an average smattering between the two.

Other counters can absorb the damage and use that variable for effects. Decidueye, for example, could counter a move and place a target on an enemy, allowing attacks to do more damage and shield damage. Bayonetta exchanges the damage for a movement effect. The move is too powerful, but it does tap into creative design.

In terms of Fire Emblem, Corrin's counter does too many things. Splash Knockback and covers a defense weakness too effectively.

In a series with all sword characters represented, a counter on most of them stales the variety. Why ask for multiple FE characters and demand one of their specials (a defining trait and the flavor/spice of a fighter) be a counter?

 

[Cosmic77]

1. My OCD appreciated Sakurai's three swords approach to Marth, Roy & Lucina. Power at the point, power at the base and even power along the full blade. However, I do not think this has to be carried over into another Smash. Roy is an easy cut. Lucina could return either as an alt or an easy version of Marth if time permits.

2. Ike and Robin should stay. Ike is a good foil to Marth (precision versus strength) with more differences than Roy had to Marth. Robin is an example of how Fire Emblem could be represented in the future. Break the addiction of counters and showcase other parts of the game.

3. Corrin can stay or be replaced with a new character. Corrin's mutable weapons, stylish Side B and ability to soft cover their weakness at close range with revolving blades offer enough uniqueness in a series with sword-wielding characters. I would love if if the counter was replaced. Too repetitive, outclasses other counters, and covers a weakness too well.

4. While I am fine with another Fire Emblem character, I'd rather see sword characters from another franchise over them. A different franchise has more opportunity to break the Fire Emblem mold of similar moves and counters. Fire Emblem characters seem to lend themselves to DLC. They can be mass produced, saving time and resources.

This. Couldn't have said it better myself.​

Why people even complain about Counters?

First, they are fun to use.
Second, they are an important part of FE.
And third, it's literally just one move out of like 30 moves.

It's not that counters are bad or anything, it's just...very underwhelming to see them at this point. There are hundreds of different things you could do with a down special. Do we really need to recycle the same move for every FE character?

One would be fairly recent and one would be practically brand new. FE16 is guaranteed practically at this point, it will fall into the same category as Awakening in Sm4sh and Path of Radiance in Brawl. Echoes is the questionable one and if it weren't included I would simply say two FE16 characters, a hero and a villain.

I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself here.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Why do we need two characters from that game?

And why does one have to be a villain?

1. Because it will be the first home console Fire Emblem in about 11-12 years and it sounds a like a big new game Nintendo and Intelligent Systems will push, like Awakening.

2. Because by now Fire Emblem deserves a villain rep.

 

[Chandeelure]

If Bandana Dee is a newcomer, I wouldn't complain if he has a Counter haha.

I just like them, except Peach's and Palutena's, they are so bad, lol.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

1. Because it will be the first home console Fire Emblem in about 11-12 years and it sounds a like a big new game Nintendo and Intelligent Systems will push, like Awakening.

2. Because by now Fire Emblem deserves a villain rep.

1. Doesn't explain why we need two. PoR was the first console Fire Emblem game in a long time. Still only got Ike.

2. What if there isn't an interesting, popular or notable villain? This comes off as fulfilling some arbitrary criteria.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

1. Doesn't explain why we need two. PoR was the first console Fire Emblem game in a long time. Still only got Ike.

2. What if there isn't an interesting, popular or notable villain? This comes off as fulfilling some arbitrary criteria.

1. Awakening got two reps and it was a hugely pushed game at the time of Smash 4 development. During the time of Brawl Ike was really the only big choice from PoR and RD (given how limit FE was repped), and Fire Emblem only got one replacement back then. On top of that the two Marth remakes kind of overshadowed Ike's games too for Sm4sh before Awakening was released.

2. If there isn't a big villain then you have two hero reps like Robin and Lucina were in Sm4sh. OR you have Celica. But it won't be only one newcomer, there is too much going on for only one.

 

[Megadoomer]

Why people even complain about Counters?

First, they are fun to use.
Second, they are an important part of FE.
And third, it's literally just one move out of like 30 moves.


I say that they should mantain the 6 characters from Smash 4 and add nothing.

I generally play single player modes, and the AI is borderline clairvoyant when it comes to counters. It's frustrating to play through classic mode on the higher difficulties when you basically have to avoid what feels like a third of the cast, as a single counter could (and usually does) result in an instant KO.

 

[Cosmic77]

1. Awakening got two reps and it was a hugely pushed game at the time of Smash 4 development. During the time of Brawl Ike was really the only big choice from PoR and RD, and Fire Emblem only got one replacement back then. On top of that the two Marth remakes kind of overshadowed Ike's games too for Sm4sh before Awakening was released.

2. If there isn't a big villain then you have two hero reps like Robin and Lucina were in Brawl. OR you have Celica. But it won't be only one newcomer, there is too much going on for only one.

Lucina is almost a full clone of Marth who was added last minute, so I don't know how much weight your first point has.

Pokémon had a lot going on in Smash 4, and it only got one newcomer. We haven't even seen what FE16 is like yet, so saying that two newcomers from that game is likely makes it seem like you're jumping the gun a little bit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

1. Awakening got two reps and it was a hugely pushed game at the time of Smash 4 development. During the time of Brawl Ike was really the only big choice from PoR and RD (given how limit FE was repped), and Fire Emblem only got one replacement back then. On top of that the two Marth remakes kind of overshadowed Ike's games too for Sm4sh before Awakening was released.

2. If there isn't a big villain then you have two hero reps like Robin and Lucina were in Sm4sh. OR you have Celica. But it won't be only one newcomer, there is too much going on for only one.

Lucina wasn't planned though. She was a last minute clone designed to pad out the game.

The original plan was only to have Marth, Ike and Robin.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Lucina is almost a full clone of Marth who was added last minute, so I don't know how much weight your first point has.

Pokémon had a lot going on in Smash 4, and it only got one newcomer. We haven't even seen what FE16 is like yet, so saying that two newcomers from that game is likely makes it seem like you're jumping the gun a little bit.

Which is the reason, for now, I pick Celica to join in with the new game character.

Nothing guaranteed in terms of Echoes at all but Celica has een used quite a bit since then so I speculate she has a chance. FE16 even if we don't know anything is practically for certain getting a rep.

I mean it could be Marth, Ike, Corrin, Robin, Roy, and FE16 for all we know (at that would be cool) but the possiblity of two reps is there because by the time 5mash is out we will have like 2-3 games in the series since Sm4sh.

As for Pokemon it seems to be that almost every odd numbered gen (outside the first) gets screwed. Gen 3 was possible in Brawl and Gen 4 came along. Gen 5 had a shot for Smash 4 and Gen 6 came along. Sadly I feel the same thing is gonna happen with Gen 7 for 5mash because of Gen 8. One big gen to rep each game and they gave one character. But what is holding Pokemon back, kind of, is the over reliance on Gen 1. That could be accountable for less newcomers in a way. Not saying it doesn't deserve but there are other gens out there too.

 

[Chandeelure]

I generally play single player modes.

In Smash 4?
Ew.
I'm sorry, man.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

In terms of Fire Emblem characters in Smash, I personally don't care. If it were up to me I'd keep all the ones we have now in Smash 5 for the sake of keeping them, though I don't find any of them particularly fun to play as aside from maybe Roy.

If it were up to me to pick the next Fire Emblem rep, I'd probably go with Celica or Micaiah, even though I don't find either particularly likely. Tiki would also be pretty fun.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I generally play single player modes, and the AI is borderline clairvoyant when it comes to counters. It's frustrating to play through classic mode on the higher difficulties when you basically have to avoid what feels like a third of the cast, as a single counter could (and usually does) result in an instant KO.

I know exactly how you feel. Although I usually don't play the solo modes normally, I've recently taken up the task of getting every custom special move in the game via grinding (speaking of which, being able to get duplicate custom specials is utter garbage), and many of my deaths are because of the AI using Counter specials. I use a custom bruiser Dedede to help grind in single-player as his powered-up smash attacks easily kill, but that means even one wrong move that gets hit by a character's counter can send me hurling to my death easily, even at 0%. And when a good chunk of the cast can do this, that's a bit of a problem.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

How about some new stage discussion?

 

[Bowserlick]

A stage that folds together. There is a line down the middle of the stage. The stage trembles and then folds in half upwards, clapping together which could instant kill. When the stage starts shaking, you better run to the end and jump off.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

A stage that folds together. There is a line down the middle of the stage. The stage trembles and then folds in half upwards, clapping together which could instant kill. When the stage starts shaking, you better run to the end and jump off.

You know what, that would sound interesting for a Paper Mario stage

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Nintendo Puzzle Collection Stage?

 

[Krysco]

Counters were fine in Melee and Brawl but then the devs decided in 4 to give them invincinbiity frames too. You predicted a counter and went for a grab? Too bad, went through them for no good reason. What's that? You have a tether grab? Have fun getting punished for making the right choice.

Also, give Ike a sword beam down special~

I'm keeping my other opinions on this FE discussion to myself. Partially due to being on mobile, partially because they're controversial.

 

[Deleted member]

I hope the title of the game is something not lame. "Smash for Wii U/3DS" has placeholder title written all over it and it's clear didn't bother giving it a different name because they're lazy.
Bring back cool titles, I think "Smash Bros. Conquest" could work.

A little late but eh, I like how it is basic actually. I do not care what the developers name it to be honest. I honestly want the next Smash game to be "Smash for Switch" instead, because it honestly rings better than some wacky name. Smash for Wii U is actually satisfying to say for some reason.

Lucina wasn't planned though. She was a last minute clone designed to pad out the game.

The original plan was only to have Marth, Ike and Robin.

But we got more FE characters anyways!
I hope they add new FE characters even though I do not play the darn game. Celica, Chrom and Lyn would probably be my top three choices. Lyn is probably going to stay an assist trophy but one man can dream. Chrom's move-set has options. It is not like he has to be a Marth / Ike clone to get in.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Counters were fine in Melee and Brawl but then the devs decided in 4 to give them invincinbiity frames too. You predicted a counter and went for a grab? Too bad, went through them for no good reason. What's that? You have a tether grab? Have fun getting punished for making the right choice.

Also, give Ike a sword beam down special~

I'm keeping my other opinions on this FE discussion to myself. Partially due to being on mobile, partially because they're controversial.

I have come to realize no matter what side you are on in a Fire Emblem discussion it is controversial. Kind of sad really.

 

[Cosmic77]

I have come to realize no matter what side you are on in a Fire Emblem discussion it is controversial. Kind of sad really.

It really is. Seems like no matter the topic, the crowd has split opinions.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It really is. Seems like no matter the topic, the crowd has split opinions.

That can be said for anything and everything to be honest

 

[Ura]

I have come to realize no matter what side you are on in a Fire Emblem discussion it is controversial. Kind of sad really.

FE is pretty much a political topic in the Smash community. So much flaming and name calling on all sides.

 

[Cosmic77]

That can be said for anything and everything to be honest

That's not entirely true!

Spoiler

Random tripping should never see the light of day again.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It really is. Seems like no matter the topic, the crowd has split opinions.

What?

No we don't!

How dare you say that!

 

[Bowserlick]

If Fire Emblem isn't going to introduce new mechanics or compelling movesets, I do not think the characters should have a large slice of the roster.

The director should look to the new games. If a new game has introduced a mechanic that can work on a fighter and be enjoyable, consider a character.

Robin is the best example of branching out of the traditional Smash Fire Emblem mold. Corrin is close.

 

[Deleted member]

We really need some nihilism in Smash speculation.

\(°|°)/

 

[Cosmic77]

If Fire Emblem isn't going to introduce new mechanics or compelling movesets, I do not think the characters should have a large slice of the roster.

The director should look to the new games. If a new game has introduced a mechanic that can work on a fighter and be enjoyable, consider a character.

Robin is the best example of branching out of the traditional Smash Fire Emblem mold. Corrin is close.

If they're gonna add a ton of FE characters, the least they can do is add characters with different weapons.


FYI development team, just because the series' logo is a sword doesn't mean that every character needs to have one.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Fire Emblem isn't going to introduce new mechanics or compelling movesets, I do not think the characters should have a large slice of the roster.

The director should look to the new games. If a new game has introduced a mechanic that can work on a fighter and be enjoyable, consider a character.

Robin is the best example of branching out of the traditional Smash Fire Emblem mold. Corrin is close.

I disagree, Fire Emblem is one of the most popular Nintendo IPs nowadays.

I would say Robin is an easy cut, but solely because of how popular Awakening is, I can't say that anymore. I don't believe in that "saved the series" **** that people constantly crow about. I don't think that matters. What matters is the popularity of the character himself.

The most important characters for me, would be the ones that star in multiple titles, like Marth, Ike, and Alm/Celica. Then there's the ones that are just enormously popular like Roy, Robin, and Lucina (and hopefully Lyn and Camilla.)

If they're gonna add a ton of FE characters, the least they can do is add characters with different weapons.


FYI development team, just because the series' logo is a sword doesn't mean that every character needs to have one.

I don't care about that stuff. I care about the characters.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

If Fire Emblem isn't going to introduce new mechanics or compelling movesets, I do not think the characters should have a large slice of the roster.

The director should look to the new games. If a new game has introduced a mechanic that can work on a fighter and be enjoyable, consider a character.

Robin is the best example of branching out of the traditional Smash Fire Emblem mold. Corrin is close.

I think it should because of how classic of a series it is, its growing popularity, and the large variety in both cast of characters and class types.

I personally feel, and I am sure a lot of people would agree, that Fire Emblem deserves the same numbers of reps as something like Pokemon and Zelda. And many would disagree as well but to me the number of reps before Smash 4 was too little to rep a series with that much variety and one that has been around for that long. Melee was fine for an introduction but not Brawl.

That can be said for anything and everything to be honest

Somewhat but Fire Emblem is almost an entire different beast.

 

[NintenRob]

Fire Emblem discussion eh? A touchy subject


Personally I'm not convinced Fire emblem will get a newcomer because it got so many this time around. Keep in my Sakurai himself thought we might be pushing the limit for Fire Emblem characters.

And it's still quite easy to find people still salty over Corrin. Seriously, half of what's left of Smash gamefaqs board is pretty talk of Corrin. "would you replace Corrin with" topics mostly.

 

[Awesomeperson159]

I'd join the discussion, but I've never played an FE game in my life, so I don't know any characters.

Spoiler

don't kill me, but when I first got Sm4sh i was just a kid and thought, "Wow, there are a lot of final fantasy characters in this game! I don't care."

However, there should definetly be more variety in the characters, because right now we have Sword Dude, Sword Dude 2, Sword Dude 3, Sword Girl, Dragon Sword Dude, and Magic Sword Dude. As Cosmic put it,

just because the series' logo is a sword doesn't mean that every character needs to have one.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't care about that stuff. I care about the characters.

I'm not convinced you mean that. Are you saying you'd be fine with getting all of the popular FE characters even if they ended up being Marth clones?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Fire Emblem discussion eh? A touchy subject


Personally I'm not convinced Fire emblem will get a newcomer because it got so many this time around. Keep in my Sakurai himself thought we might be pushing the limit for Fire Emblem characters.

And it's still quite easy to find people still salty over Corrin. Seriously, half of what's left of Smash gamefaqs board is pretty talk of Corrin. "would you replace Corrin with" topics mostly.

I think FE16 is almost a given to have a character, pretty much replacing one of the ones we have now. Like Lucina or Roy.

It shouldn't go above six but that also doesn't mean it shouldn't get a new character or characters.