Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

Funny enough she was a skin for Zelda in Hyrule warriors though. Lol

I did not recall this... Hmm...Then why does Hilda get discussed as an Echo, and not an alt?

I really love Pokemon Trainer as it is, and if I don't like any of the new characters, will most certainly be my main. I feel like Sakurai found the perfect balance between the two. By eliminating the penalty, a person could main any individual Pokemon. A move is missing, but I feel like it's the best compromise, as I know I'll really love switching between three Pokemon, especially now that I won't be forced to switch. My only problem is, while you can choose which Pokemon you start as (brilliant btw), it kinda forces you to switch after you KO. That's the one major disappointment I have, though with fast switching won't be too much of a problem.

I know it is petty of me, but my issue with the Trainer is that it makes the Pokemon he has come across as "lesser" Pokemon. Paritcularly with Greninja as its own character.

Fire Emblem offers diverse casts of characters with different fighting styles alongside multiple protagonists.
Animal Crossing has the same main characters with a non-entity playable character and nome of the generic villagers can offer much in terms or fighting styles, nor are they recognizable enough within their own fandom.

Or, more simply:
When people think of FE, they remember the characters. When people think of Pokemon, they remember the Pokemon.
When people think of AC, they remember the laid back decorating, catching bugs, feel-good nature and paying loans.

Not to say the AC characters aren't important to it, but they certainly aren't the focus.

A lot of this makes sense, but I think I must disagree about "AC and characters."
As is evident by the fact that Animal Crossing has 400 amiibo cards and a whole line of its own amiibo figures, obviously Animal Crossing is a character based selling game, just like Pokemon.
Whenever I see Fire Emblem games, the new mechanics are what separate them. I'm not particularly familiar with Fire Emblem but it is difficult for me to think of it as character and not gameplay (of course my feelings are not any reason to fact).

 

[Paperchampion23]

I did not recall this... Hmm...Then why does Hilda get discussed as an Echo, and not an alt?

She could be either

 

[Kuon]

Alright. Today is the day. If my hard read actually comes true, I don't know what is real anymore. Aside if Nintendo announces it themselves, I don't think a Tuesday has been more important than ever when talking about Smash and Directs. We still got plenty of franchises to go when it comes to music drops, but yet a good amount of them are needed to reveal someone. New franchises maybe?

6PM is gonna be one hell of a ride.

View attachment 161789

What's going on at 6pm? Is there something I've missed?

 

[Deleted member]

Sure, but...shouldn't it be a Unovan Pokemon that's like...uh.....good?

Not that Gothitelle is "bad," but I KNOW I never saw anything close to resembling support for it until this obviously fake leak. It didn't even make the Top 400 for most popular Pokemon back during XY.

Why not, like...Zoroark? Or Krookodile? Something that's TRULY representative of Gen 5, and not just a "token Gen 5 choice"?

Hate to nitpick, but the Unova gen was Black & White, not X & Y. You're right, though, Gothitelle was never super popular. I mean, its good (I like Gothitelle), but there are other choices in Black & White; a ton actually. I think one of the best received during that gen was Excadrill. Hydreigon and Haxxorus were both really well received too. Haxorus could easily be a new Dragon rep for Smash as well.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Uh, look up the definition of passive aggressive, that's exactly what you were being.

Uh.. is this supposed to be an ironic post? Do you want to explain the definition of ironic to me as well?

Edit: yes. NOW I'm being passive aggressive. See the difference?
Double edit: You can message me if you have beef. I'm not bringing this into the forum.

 

[Paperchampion23]

What's going on at 6pm? Is there something I've missed?

I assume it's when directs possibly get announced

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*sees people talk about a 6PM deadline* Someone who is good with timezones help me my family is dying

 

[Paperchampion23]

Uh.. is this supposed to be an ironic post?

I specifically asked for people's character picks, not for you to downplay the post passive aggressively, which you did. Anyway I'm done talking about it.

 

[Kuon]

She could be either

What if the reason ALBW Zelda was chosen so that they could have a Hilda echo or Hilda alt? I know the reason they gave was because BotW Zelda is a pacifist, but come on, other characters are pacifists who are in Smash, and Sakurai loves to troll us, so it's possible he could have made a Hilda echo for Zelda because of her design, maybe?

 

[Sharkarat]

It's funny to me that Fire Emblem gets a pass for its extremely large character count, because it is a "character based game" (wherein almost no characters are recurring). Many users will even compare it to the phenomenon that was and is Pokemon, a series that is by technicality, incomparable in media.

Yet, at Animal Crossing, a FULLY character based game (more character than gameplay, in fact), is scoffed.
I wonder how many crossover fans there are of Fire Emblem who love Animal Crossing, but think only the former deserves more playable characters.
Any takers on this? The only reason I can see Fire Emblem should have more than AC is due to it being a fighting game.

It's probably an combat vs Non-combat type of split. And some of the pass FE gets, is that for all it character there's only 4 Unique characters.

I did not recall this... Hmm...Then why does Hilda get discussed as an Echo, and not an alt?

Because we already have all* of Zelda's Colors

*unless final game has more than 8 colors

 

[osby]

I did not recall this... Hmm...Then why does Hilda get discussed as an Echo, and not an alt?


I know it is petty of me, but my issue with the Trainer is that it makes the Pokemon he has come across as "lesser" Pokemon. Paritcularly with Greninja as its own character.


A lot of this makes sense, but I think I must disagree about "AC and characters."
As is evident by the fact that Animal Crossing has 400 amiibo cards and a whole line of its own amiibo figures, obviously Animal Crossing is a character based selling game, just like Pokemon.
Whenever I see Fire Emblem games, the new mechanics are what separate them. I'm not particularly familiar with Fire Emblem but it is difficult for me to think of it as character and not gameplay (of course my feelings are not any reason to fact).

Only reason Kanto starters got in was Pokémon Trainer, while Greninja got in because of his own talents.

I love Ivysaur, but I would call her a "lesser" Pokémon in this sense, not that I have any problem with it.

 

[?????????????]

Hate to nitpick, but the Unova gen was Black & White, not X & Y. You're right, though, Gothitelle was never super popular. I mean, its good (I like Gothitelle), but there are other choices in Black & White; a ton actually. I think one of the best received during that gen was Excadrill. Hydreigon and Haxxorus were both really well received too. Haxorus could easily be a new Dragon rep for Smash as well.

Oh yeah, I just don't have the Unova popularity poll as off-hand information in my head.

...but I do for XY. Hahaha...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I did not recall this... Hmm...Then why does Hilda get discussed as an Echo, and not an alt?


I know it is petty of me, but my issue with the Trainer is that it makes the Pokemon he has come across as "lesser" Pokemon. Paritcularly with Greninja as its own character.


A lot of this makes sense, but I think I must disagree about "AC and characters."
As is evident by the fact that Animal Crossing has 400 amiibo cards and a whole line of its own amiibo figures, obviously Animal Crossing is a character based selling game, just like Pokemon.
Whenever I see Fire Emblem games, the new mechanics are what separate them. I'm not particularly familiar with Fire Emblem but it is difficult for me to think of it as character and not gameplay (of course my feelings are not any reason to fact).

Hilda and zelda are nothing alike in personality, a colour swap ala peach's daisy one could work but not a full on alt with a different name

 

[?????????????]

What if the reason ALBW Zelda was chosen so that they could have a Hilda echo or Hilda alt? I know the reason they gave was because BotW Zelda is a pacifist, but come on, other characters are pacifists who are in Smash, and Sakurai loves to troll us, so it's possible he could have made a Hilda echo for Zelda because of her design, maybe?

I....have honestly wondered this as well.

 

[pupNapoleon]

*sees people talk about a 6PM deadline* Someone who is good with timezones help me my family is dying

Just start watching the channel and wait for a few days.
If nothing happens, come back, and I'll give you the same advice.

*I also wish to know the time zone, just for fun. Though I don't think the Online direct would be a surprise, especially after getting two Indie directs int he last two weeks which were announced slightly ahead of time.

 

[Kuon]

It's probably an combat vs Non-combat type of split. And some of the pass FE gets, is that for all it character there's only 4 Unique characters.
Because we already have all* of Zelda's Colors

*unless final game has more than 8 colors

Isn't the sixth one from the left supposed to represent Hilda? If so, I take back what I said a minute ago about her being an echo.

 

[osby]

What if the reason ALBW Zelda was chosen so that they could have a Hilda echo or Hilda alt? I know the reason they gave was because BotW Zelda is a pacifist, but come on, other characters are pacifists who are in Smash, and Sakurai loves to troll us, so it's possible he could have made a Hilda echo for Zelda because of her design, maybe?

1. Hilda isn't popular or important enough to effect Zelda's design
2. 'She's a pacifist' is likely just PR talk.
3. 'Sakurai loves to troll us' isn't proof of anything.
4. Echos still require effort, so why would he put one that nobody asked for?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It worked for Alph and Olimar. Those two have completely contrasting personalities. One is literally an introvert while the other is an extrovert.
(I'm extrapolating- Olimar is just an observer, and Alph a talker).

olimar doesn't show any real personality in his taunts or animations though so an alt works, the same cant be said for zelda. hilda acting like zelda does in ultimate would be entirely out of character

 

[Deleted member]

Only reason Kanto starters got in was Pokémon Trainer, while Greninja got in because of his own talents.

I love Ivysaur, but I would call her a "lesser" Pokémon in this sense, not that I have any problem with it.

X/Y hadn't been released by the time Smash Wii U was in development. Sakurai picked him based on design; he knew nothing else about it, so there were no accomplishments invovled with Greninja's getting in.

 

[Michele]

I assume it's when directs possibly get announced

Is it in 10 minutes?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Hilda and zelda are nothing alike in personality, a colour swap ala peach's daisy one could work but not a full on alt with a different name

It worked for Alph and Olimar, who also have opposing personalities.
One is an observer (extrapolated to being introvert), and the other a huge talker (extrovert). There are more points to this but I'll let the Olimar subforum handle that.

olimar doesn't show any real personality in his taunts or animations though so an alt works, the same cant be said for zelda. hilda acting like zelda does in ultimate would be entirely out of character

You quoted me in my double post and then I lost my post. Oh, you. You saved my comment. I'm just gonna give you a high five.
I disagree with your post on personality, but its just an opinion at that point.

 

[Deleted member]

What's going on at 6pm? Is there something I've missed?

6 PM where I'm at (PST) usually is when new music drops on the Smash website. And with so many rumors and people saying a Direct is in two days, today and tomorrow are definitely gonna be wild.

 

[Kuon]

1. Hilda isn't popular or important enough to effect Zelda's design
2. 'She's a pacifist' is likely just PR talk.
3. 'Sakurai loves to troll us' isn't proof of anything.
4. Echos still require effort, so why would he put one that nobody asked for?

I'm not saying any of it is proof, I'm just speculating. Also, there are characters that are included in every Smash that nobody asked for, and I fully expect there to be one or two characters in the game that are out of left field, unless this game turns out to be the one game that is 100% fan requested characters

 

[monadoboy]

Gothitelle discourse still astounds me because the concept of hilda being in is apparently perfectly fine despite being a really forced echo yet gothitelle gets people so insufferably mad about it for the exact same reasons as why i dislike hilda echo.

People DID ask for hoenn and unova pokemon around ballot time, i remember that. I don't believe the gothitelle leak is true and im astounded it's not dead despite every dataminer calling it dumb, but really, if she is in, be careful what you wish for.

I do like gothitelle as a pokemon however.

ALBW was the last non-remake mainline Zelda released before the project proposal, though, Hilda was relevant. Gothiwhatever was never relevant. Not to mention Hilda is literally a Zelda counterpart, unlike Gothitelle who has absolutely no relation to Gardevoir beyond sharing one type.

 

[?????????????]

What I'd really like for Olimar is more alts that make him different captains, like Louie, Brittany, Charlie, and The President.

Like a "Pikmin & Captain" character.

...and I'd always choose the President.

 

[osby]

X/Y hadn't been released by the time Smash Wii U was in development. Sakurai picked him based on design; he knew nothing else about it, so there were no accomplishments invovled with Greninja's getting in.

Talent wasn't the right choise of words.

But still, Greninja got in because he can do stuff that no Pokémon can. Ivysaur, Squirtle and Charizard only decided after Trainer.

 

[DraginHikari]

It's funny to me that Fire Emblem gets a pass for its extremely large character count, because it is a "character based game" (wherein almost no characters are recurring). Many users will even compare it to the phenomenon that was and is Pokemon, a series that is by technicality, incomparable in media.

Yet, at Animal Crossing, a FULLY character based game (more character than gameplay, in fact), is scoffed.
I wonder how many crossover fans there are of Fire Emblem who love Animal Crossing, but think only the former deserves more playable characters.
Any takers on this? The only reason I can see Fire Emblem should have more than AC is due to it being a fighting game.

I think it's more that Fire Emblem is a game fully focused on combat as such it's easily to develop movesets for each character the stands to each characters personality. Same thing with Pokemon. Animal Crossing as a whole requires more overall creativity because the game has no combat period so the Villager had to be built from the ground up and pulled random elements from the games that could be used in a combat situation and create kind of a bizarre character in the process.

Yes it can be done but it definitely requires more work compared to 'Person with 'X' weapon fights in 'Y' way'

 

[pupNapoleon]

Only reason Kanto starters got in was Pokémon Trainer, while Greninja got in because of his own talents.

I love Ivysaur, but I would call her a "lesser" Pokémon in this sense, not that I have any problem with it.

If you want to tell me that you think a general populous is more familiar with Greninja than Squirtle, I don't know where to bring the conversation.

Talent wasn't the right choise of words.

But still, Greninja got in because he can do stuff that no Pokémon can. Ivysaur, Squirtle and Charizard only decided after Trainer.

Greninja got in for promotion. I believe this was stated by Sakurai directly, and only about Greninja and Corrin.

 

[Michele]

6 PM where I'm at (PST) usually is when new music drops on the Smash website. And with so many rumors and people saying a Direct is in two days, today and tomorrow are definitely gonna be wild.

6 PM? Isn't that, like, extremely late? For me, it's 01:00 am of the next day. Are you saying that 6PM PST is where there could be that announcement?

 

[osby]

If you want to tell me that you think a general populous is more familiar with Greninja than Squirtle, I don't know where to bring the conversation.

You know this is a fighting game, right?

 

[Sharkarat]

Isn't the sixth one from the left supposed to represent Hilda? If so, I take back what I said a minute ago about her being an echo.

Got these Images from the net
We got This, Hilda Would look more Like This.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think it's more that Fire Emblem is a game fully focused on combat as such it's easily to develop movesets for each character the stands to each characters personality. Same thing with Pokemon. Animal Crossing as a whole requires more overall creativity because the game has no combat period so the Villager had to be built from the ground up and pulled random elements from the games that could be used in a combat situation and create kind of a bizarre character in the process.

Yes it can be done but it definitely requires more work compared to 'Person with 'X' weapon fights in 'Y' way'

Maybe we can get Animal Crossing Warriors and have the forum start advocating for Rosie as an alt for Isabelle
Seriously though, you made a good point.

You know this is a fighting game, right?

What is your point here Osby?

 

[CosmicQuark]

You know this is a fighting game, right?

A fighting game with Jigglypuff.

 

[osby]

A fighting game with Jigglypuff.

And what a great fighter she is.

 

[Nethermoosen]

It's hard to imagine a moveset for Isabelle, unlike say, K.Rool who just des what everyone predicted.

I don't think she'll be playable but I think she'll surprise us if she is.

Not gonna lie, I did NOT predict the counter.

 

[Michele]

And what a great fighter she is.

And what an great toy she is.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Greninja got in for promotion. I believe this was stated by Sakurai directly, and only about Greninja and Corrin.

No he didn't.

A slot was reserved for a Gen VI Pokemon, sure, but Greninja himself was chosen because Sakurai saw his concept design and thought he would make for an interesting ninja-themed moveset. Not even sure if anyone knew he would be popular at that point.

 

[DraginHikari]

A fighting game with Jigglypuff.

Jiggypuff is still from a combat oriented game with a moveset to draw upon so...

 

[monadoboy]

It's funny to me that Fire Emblem gets a pass for its extremely large character count, because it is a "character based game" (wherein almost no characters are recurring). Many users will even compare it to the phenomenon that was and is Pokemon, a series that is by technicality, incomparable in media.

Yet, at Animal Crossing, a FULLY character based game (more character than gameplay, in fact), is scoffed.
I wonder how many crossover fans there are of Fire Emblem who love Animal Crossing, but think only the former deserves more playable characters.
Any takers on this? The only reason I can see Fire Emblem should have more than AC is due to it being a fighting game.

I love both, and to put it simply, I prefer people who actually fight over people who never in their life fought before in a game about fighting. As much as I like AC and Isabelle, I have no interest in seeing her fight. Accidental fighters look dumb and get old fast, in my opinion, which is why I think Villager's dash is one of the worst in the game. Haha, he accidentally dropped a potted tree for the 12342th time...and the bowling ball...haha. :|

Also, Smash isn't really about "deserving."

 

[Wyoming]

Not gonna lie, I did NOT predict the counter.

But neither but it is a nice use of his girth that connects with Klump. If he can use his stomach as a pseudo-shield and attack then his superior should logically be able too as well.

Well done Sakurai