Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

*sigh* What could have been...

We could have gotten an evolution for Farfetch'd.

That's cool and all, but the biggest loss has to be the old Remoraid and Octillery designs.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I was totally on board with the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak, because I would love to play as Gothitelle. Plus, every Smash game has had two new roster slots for Pokémon (if you count Charizard as new since it's not Pkmn Trainer). I could totally see them adding Gardevoir with Gothitelle Echo for one slot and adding Inceneroar as the other new Pokémon character slot. It may be an unpopular opinion but I'd pick Gothitelle over Gardevoir any day.

I cannot count Charizard as new, because he was not new. If you consider him new, you must consider him cut in Ultimate.
I really wish Trainer could just choose any three Pokemon to fight between. And that it takes away the down special, plus finds other ways to battle.
This would improve the trainer to me... almost more so than the previous mechanics that I had conceived (flash summons and Pokeball as a capture weapon).

 

[papagenos]

That's cool and all, but the biggest loss has to be the old Remoraid and Octillery designs.

View attachment 161787

I'm so happy these came out and finally made sense of why this evolution chain exists, made no sense before seeing the original idea.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I've said it before, but...

The big 3rd Party I'd want now is something from Dragon Quest. I mean, you wanna talk about your massive video game franchises with LOOONG histories to Nintendo? There it is.

Besides that, I'm a fan of Ryu Hayabusa.

I do not actively want a character from DQ, yet it would not upset me if it were made in an original sense.
Contasting in every way to Geno, there's not a character I can imagine from DQ (but I dare not let my lack of imagination and experience within the franchise tell me that a character cannot happen). Geno is from a series that doesn't need a character, but is a great individual.

Perphaps this is the battle of "what is most important in Smash."
Just kidding. It is all case by case, we know there are no rules.

 

[Kuon]

I cannot count Charizard as new, because he was not new. If you consider him new, you must consider him cut in Ultimate.
I really wish Trainer could just choose any three Pokemon to fight between. And that it takes away the down special, plus finds other ways to battle.
This would improve the trainer to me... almost more so than the previous mechanics that I had conceived (flash summons and Pokeball as a capture weapon).

Yeah, I kind of wish they would remove Pkmn Trainer and just have Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle have their own roster slots, but then part of me likes the little extra bit with the trainer in the background, so I don't really know which one I'd prefer, especially since we can now choose between male and female. I wish they had you choose between the three Pokémon when choosing your character (like what you do with Mii Fighters) and you have to use that Pokémon throughout the entire battle, but oh well. No big deal.

 

[CosmicQuark]

So I have a theory, what if Ultimate is going to mirror the first game in terms of newcomers?

For example, 64 is considered 8 or 12 overall, depending on what you consider the "original set".

If we go by these numbers, we could have anywhere between 4-8 more newcomers (not personally counting echoes)?

If I had it my way, my personal 12 (an accumulation of what many people want tbh, cause I want you all to be happy lol) are:
-Ridley
-Inkling
-Simon
-K. Rool
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Geno
-Skull Kid
-Pokemon Newcomer
-Banjo
-Rhythm Heaven Character
-Porky (my personal want cause Mother is amazing and I'd love to get yet another heavy)

If it's only 8:
- The 4 confirmed
- Geno
- Isaac
- Skull Kid
- Banjo

This either equates to 71 or 75 unique characters (barring echoes).

So im curious, if the newcomer count is paying homage to the original 64 game (totally a guess), what would your top 4 and top 8 be?

I'm personally banking on Sakurai shocking us by November with the number of newcomers, hence why i think 8 more may be a possibility.

Matching the original 8 kind of lines up with my current predictions, as it is.

Confirmed:
1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Simon Belmont
4. King K Rool

If 8 Newcomers:
5. Incineroar
6. Isaac
7. Banjo & Kazooie
8. Geno

If 12 Newcomers:
9. Bandana Waddle Dee
10. Skull Kid
11. Elma
12. Chorus Kids

Personally, I'm a fan of believing Sakurai when he says not to expect too many newcomers. Now whether this counts for echoes or not I don't know

Anyway, Top 4 prediction wise:
Skull Kid
Geno (For those who have wanted him since Brawl)
Isaac
Incineroar

Those are the four safest picks to me. If it went beyond that with another 4:
Bandana Dee
Rhythm Heaven
Minecraft Steve to let down everyone who expected Banjo, but it just seems more likely imo
Phoenix Wright (As the wtf character because I can't imagine another tbh)

How do I dislike a post?

jk

>Minecraft stage is shown
“Must be either Banjo or Steve”
>Suddenly Halo himself appears

The best timeline probably.

Same as previous--the worst timeline. Though, I stated in the B&K thread that there is a possibility that if Nintendo and Microsoft wanted to go all out, Banjo & Kazooie would be the playable character, Creeper assist, and Master Chief Mii costume. Sounds like something Sakurai would do that would break the internet in multiple ways.

 

[?????????????]

I do not actively want a character from DQ, yet it would not upset me if it were made in an original sense.
Contasting in every way to Geno, there's not a character I can imagine from DQ (but I dare not let my lack of imagination and experience within the franchise tell me that a character cannot happen). Geno is from a series that doesn't need a character, but is a great individual.

Perphaps this is the battle of "what is most important in Smash."
Just kidding. It is all case by case, we know there are no rules.

THE character of Dragon Quest, in my opinion, is Erdrick.

Main hero of Dragon Quest III, most referenced hero of the series by far.

 

[Kuon]

I do not actively want a character from DQ, yet it would not upset me if it were made in an original sense.
Contasting in every way to Geno, there's not a character I can imagine from DQ (but I dare not let my lack of imagination and experience within the franchise tell me that a character cannot happen). Geno is from a series that doesn't need a character, but is a great individual.

Perphaps this is the battle of "what is most important in Smash."
Just kidding. It is all case by case, we know there are no rules.

From what I heard, the main guy from Dragon Quest XI is the same guy (or a reincarnation of) the hero from the first Dragon Quest game. I could have misunderstood though. But I think if they did include a DQ character, maybe he might make a lot of sense?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah, I kind of wish they would remove Pkmn Trainer and just have Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle have their own roster slots, but then part of me likes the little extra bit with the trainer in the background, so I don't really know which one I'd prefer, especially since we can now choose between male and female. I wish they had you choose between the three Pokémon when choosing your character (like what you do with Mii Fighters) and you have to use that Pokémon throughout the entire battle, but oh well. No big deal.

I wish we had them as characters that were considered characters, because it is clear that while they are entirely original, both Nintendo and the fans of Smash treat them as one character. Less than the echo characters. Somehow this makes sense to the masses and we accept it. Ridiculous. Sheepish. Aggrevating.

And 'switching' is sensible for Pokemon Trainer (if it is his specialty versus the entire roster), but I do think we could represent him better.
Oh well. I did not expect a proper PT and the three to be separated. At least now I have Squirtle.

 

[Deleted member]

A Direct is possible this week already, huh? Awesome. Really want to know the Pokemon rep, if there is one. The last direct totally surprised me with 5 reveals, I'm not expecting anything close to that for the next one, but it would be awesome. I think they're going to spread things out though. I'm going to curb my expectations and expect 1 echo and 1 new IF new characters are shown at all.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I feel like the TP Zelda characters fit Brawl extremely well, but was oof’d to see them come back in Smash 4...glad they got massive revamps (and Sheik changed her clothes as well as her voice)

 

[KMDP]

That's cool and all, but the biggest loss has to be the old Remoraid and Octillery designs.

View attachment 161787

Feh!

Paltry compared to the majesty that is Kotora and Raitora!

 

[Deleted member]

Master Chief

Master whatnow? Isn't his name Halo?

I wish we had them as characters that were considered characters, because it is clear that while they are entirely original, both Nintendo and the fans of Smash treat them as one character. Less than the echo characters. Somehow this makes sense to the masses and we accept it. Ridiculous. Sheepish. Aggrevating.

I mean, they are separate characters, and the site lists them as 33-35, but in terms of gameplay, the Trainer is one character due to forced switching. At least with the removal of Stamina and (probably) Type Effectiveness, as well as the faster switching, you're no longer punished for trying to play a single Pokemon.

Trainer's weird.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So I have a theory, what if Ultimate is going to mirror the first game in terms of newcomers?

For example, 64 is considered 8 or 12 overall, depending on what you consider the "original set".

If we go by these numbers, we could have anywhere between 4-8 more newcomers (not personally counting echoes)?

If I had it my way, my personal 12 (an accumulation of what many people want tbh, cause I want you all to be happy lol) are:
-Ridley
-Inkling
-Simon
-K. Rool
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Geno
-Skull Kid
-Pokemon Newcomer
-Banjo
-Rhythm Heaven Character
-Porky (my personal want cause Mother is amazing and I'd love to get yet another heavy)

If it's only 8:
- The 4 confirmed
- Geno
- Isaac
- Skull Kid
- Banjo

This either equates to 71 or 75 unique characters (barring echoes).

So im curious, if the newcomer count is paying homage to the original 64 game (totally a guess), what would your top 4 and top 8 be?

I'm personally banking on Sakurai shocking us by November with the number of newcomers, hence why i think 8 more may be a possibility.

It is a cute theory, but it doesn't make sense to me at all. Not just because we have been explicitly told that games are not created with "slots" (which is exactly what this is), or that we know directly that some characters are planned but cannot make it.

That all aside, why would a third party character count toward that 8?

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

Gothitelle discourse still astounds me because the concept of hilda being in is apparently perfectly fine despite being a really forced echo yet gothitelle gets people so insufferably mad about it for the exact same reasons as why i dislike hilda echo.

People DID ask for hoenn and unova pokemon around ballot time, i remember that. I don't believe the gothitelle leak is true and im astounded it's not dead despite every dataminer calling it dumb, but really, if she is in, be careful what you wish for.

I do like gothitelle as a pokemon however.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Master whatnow? Isn't his name Halo?

Halo vs Metroid...vs Zelda/Kid Icarus/Pokémon

 

[Kuon]

I think it's funny that everyone thinks Isabelle will be an echo, but very few people are on board with her being unique. I mean, sure, she could probably work as a Villager echo, but I think she could work equally as well as a unique fighter. Who's to say she can't use moves that represent AC in ways that Villager doesn't do? Or she could even have an entirely unique moveset that doesn't represent AC but instead represents her personality. I'm just saying, I think she could work as a unique as well as an echo

 

[Paperchampion23]

It is a cute theory, but it doesn't make sense to me at all. Not just because we have been explicitly told that games are not created with "slots" (which is exactly what this is), or that we know directly that some characters are planned but cannot make it.

That all aside, why would a third party character count toward that 8?

I mean, no need for passive aggressively downplaying my post, it's just a theory.

More so mask the fact that I think we are getting more than 4 more unique newcomers. But I guess that's "cute" to you too lol

 

[pupNapoleon]

Gothitelle discourse still astounds me because the concept of hilda being in is apparently perfectly fine despite being a really forced echo yet gothitelle gets people so insufferably mad about it for the exact same reasons as why i dislike hilda echo.

No, no. Don't get confused. They're both ridiculous. Possible, sure. But ridiculous.

I mean, no need for passive aggressively downplaying my post, it's just a theory.

More so mask the fact that I think we are getting more than 4 more unique newcomers. But I guess that's "cute" to you too lol

I'm not being passive aggressive. If I wanted to be aggressive, I'd not be passive about it. I simply stated my opinion and the reasons that my opinion was founded.

EDITed for more aggression, as the user asked:
I don't know why you take the word "cute" to be an attack. Your theory does not make any sense given the facts that I stated in response. If it was meant as a serious theory (it did not read seriously to me, if that is the case), I would consider it busted.

 

[Deleted member]

Halo vs Metroid...vs Zelda/Kid Icarus/Pokémon

Don't forget about Shulk. He wields the Xenoblade.

 

[?????????????]

I think it's funny that everyone thinks Isabelle will be an echo, but very few people are on board with her being unique. I mean, sure, she could probably work as a Villager echo, but I think she could work equally as well as a unique fighter. Who's to say she can't use moves that represent AC in ways that Villager doesn't do? Or she could even have an entirely unique moveset that doesn't represent AC but instead represents her personality. I'm just saying, I think she could work as a unique as well as an echo

I'm mixed on this.

On one hand, I absolutely agree. Isabelle has plenty of potential as a unique newcomer. Although...I might actually say that about every echo anyways hahaha...

On the other hand, if they were going to prioritize certain characters as true newcomers and others as echoes...I'd be a little surprised at the choice to prioritize Isabelle.

 

[osby]

I think it's funny that everyone thinks Isabelle will be an echo, but very few people are on board with her being unique. I mean, sure, she could probably work as a Villager echo, but I think she could work equally as well as a unique fighter. Who's to say she can't use moves that represent AC in ways that Villager doesn't do? Or she could even have an entirely unique moveset that doesn't represent AC but instead represents her personality. I'm just saying, I think she could work as a unique as well as an echo

It's hard to imagine a moveset for Isabelle, unlike say, K.Rool who just des what everyone predicted.

I don't think she'll be playable but I think she'll surprise us if she is.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

No, no. Don't get confused. They're both ridiculous. Possible, sure. But ridiculous.


I'm not being passive aggressive. If I wanted to be aggressive, I'd not be passive about it. I simply stated my opinion and the reasons that my opinion was founded.

Yes but Gothitelle actually slightly edges out Hilda because Unova pokemon were a talking point for a while. I never said either would ever be in. However, Gothitelle makes more sense because people went to the Monkey's Paw and asked for a Unovan pokemon

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well of course. It's the only reason why a character like Daisy made it in in the first place.

If we HAD to get a rep from there, using Zelda as a base is probably our only option at this point.

Hilda really sounds forced just because of the artstyle Zelda has. She didn’t even make it into Hyrule Warriors, and is kind of a tertiary antagonist to boot.

Now if we need a Zelda echo...

She has the popularity (yeah in her imp form, but that’s already an assist). And it would be an easy enough echo...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Don't forget about Shulk. He wields the Xenoblade.

Add in Metal Gear or F-Zero and we got ourselves an all star battle for Smash Ultimate right here

 

[?????????????]

Yes but Gothitelle actually slightly edges out Hilda because Unova pokemon were a talking point for a while. I never said either would ever be in. However, Gothitelle makes more sense because people went to the Monkey's Paw and asked for a Unovan pokemon

Sure, but...shouldn't it be a Unovan Pokemon that's like...uh.....good?

Not that Gothitelle is "bad," but I KNOW I never saw anything close to resembling support for it until this obviously fake leak. It didn't even make the Top 400 for most popular Pokemon back during XY.

Why not, like...Zoroark? Or Krookodile? Something that's TRULY representative of Gen 5, and not just a "token Gen 5 choice"?

 

[DraginHikari]

I think it's funny that everyone thinks Isabelle will be an echo, but very few people are on board with her being unique. I mean, sure, she could probably work as a Villager echo, but I think she could work equally as well as a unique fighter. Who's to say she can't use moves that represent AC in ways that Villager doesn't do? Or she could even have an entirely unique moveset that doesn't represent AC but instead represents her personality. I'm just saying, I think she could work as a unique as well as an echo

I think it's likely because it is easier to convince someone of Isabelle who doesn't care about Animal Crossing that she's worth having with her as a Echo then a fully realized original character since those kind of characters are a little more limited this time around.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's hard to imagine a moveset for Isabelle, unlike say, K.Rool who just des what everyone predicted.

It's true Isabelle could have a unique moveset. The question is, should she?
Just like with Diddy/Dixie, if the characters of Isabelle and VIllager are too dissimilar, it would not represent the series correctly, to me.

That said, I could picture Isabelle as the character who "gets assistance" from other characters. The other friends of Animal Crossing are a main selling point that do not really get showcased in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Reminder that Isabelle was being talked about long before we knew about Echoes. People who denied her chances just moved onto putting her as an Echo regardless of how much sense that makes.

 

[Sharkarat]

That's cool and all, but the biggest loss has to be the old Remoraid and Octillery designs.

View attachment 161787

Nah, on Remoraid, Its final design is better (It's one of my favorite design in all of Pokemon), it's just perfectly subtle on just being a fish revolver.
Octillery on the other hand was a big loss. It completely lost it tanks inspiration and just ended up as an off-brand Octorok. The line went from "Gun Fish -> Tank Octopus" to "Subtle Gun Fish -> japanese Cartoon Octopus".

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yes but Gothitelle actually slightly edges out Hilda because Unova pokemon were a talking point for a while. I never said either would ever be in. However, Gothitelle makes more sense because people went to the Monkey's Paw and asked for a Unovan pokemon

It may make more sense to you, but reading this post does not present to me that Gothitelle is any more likely. All I take away here are that, "people want more Pokemon and people want more Hyrulians."

 

[nintenplayer]

I think it's funny that everyone thinks Isabelle will be an echo, but very few people are on board with her being unique. I mean, sure, she could probably work as a Villager echo, but I think she could work equally as well as a unique fighter. Who's to say she can't use moves that represent AC in ways that Villager doesn't do? Or she could even have an entirely unique moveset that doesn't represent AC but instead represents her personality. I'm just saying, I think she could work as a unique as well as an echo

I agree, but the same can be said for pretty much all of the echoes...

I think it's not really about whether a character is unique enough to not be an echo, but whether Sakurai feels like the character is worth the extra effort of development to be unique

 

[Paperchampion23]

Hilda really sounds forced just because of the artstyle Zelda has. She didn’t even make it into Hyrule Warriors, and is kind of a tertiary antagonist to boot.

Now if we need a Zelda echo...

She has the popularity (yeah in her imp form, but that’s already an assist). And it would be an easy enough echo...

Funny enough she was a skin for Zelda in Hyrule warriors though. Lol

 

[Kuon]

It's hard to imagine a moveset for Isabelle, unlike say, K.Rool who just des what everyone predicted.

I don't think she'll be playable but I think she'll surprise us if she is.

I dunno. I think she's equally as likely as Dixie Kong or Shadow. Also, I think she's a Nintendo All-Star, and one of the only ones missing from the game. Plus, it just doesn't seem right to have Villager represent AC but not the "mascot" of the series. I mean, having both Villager and Isabelle as DLC for MK 8 Deluxe tells me that they don't want to represent AC in other games without Isabelle being there, and I think Ultimate will be no exception.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Yeah, I kind of wish they would remove Pkmn Trainer and just have Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle have their own roster slots, but then part of me likes the little extra bit with the trainer in the background, so I don't really know which one I'd prefer, especially since we can now choose between male and female. I wish they had you choose between the three Pokémon when choosing your character (like what you do with Mii Fighters) and you have to use that Pokémon throughout the entire battle, but oh well. No big deal.

I really love Pokemon Trainer as it is, and if I don't like any of the new characters, will most certainly be my main. I feel like Sakurai found the perfect balance between the two. By eliminating the penalty, a person could main any individual Pokemon. A move is missing, but I feel like it's the best compromise, as I know I'll really love switching between three Pokemon, especially now that I won't be forced to switch. My only problem is, while you can choose which Pokemon you start as (brilliant btw), it kinda forces you to switch after you KO. That's the one major disappointment I have, though with fast switching won't be too much of a problem.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think it's likely because it is easier to convince someone of Isabelle who doesn't care about Animal Crossing that she's worth having with her as a Echo then a fully realized original character since those kind of characters are a little more limited this time around.

It's funny to me that Fire Emblem gets a pass for its extremely large character count, because it is a "character based game" (wherein almost no characters are recurring). Many users will even compare it to the phenomenon that was and is Pokemon, a series that is by technicality, incomparable in media.

Yet, at Animal Crossing, a FULLY character based game (more character than gameplay, in fact), is scoffed.
I wonder how many crossover fans there are of Fire Emblem who love Animal Crossing, but think only the former deserves more playable characters.
Any takers on this? The only reason I can see Fire Emblem should have more than AC is due to it being a fighting game.

 

[Deleted member]

Isabelle is the first thing that pops up when you google Animal Crossing and she's everywhere in promotional material. She's happening.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright. Today is the day. If my hard read actually comes true, I don't know what is real anymore. Aside if Nintendo announces it themselves, I don't think a Tuesday has been more important than ever when talking about Smash and Directs. We still got plenty of franchises to go when it comes to music drops, but yet a good amount of them are needed to reveal someone. New franchises maybe?

6PM is gonna be one hell of a ride.

 

[Paperchampion23]

No, no. Don't get confused. They're both ridiculous. Possible, sure. But ridiculous.


I'm not being passive aggressive. If I wanted to be aggressive, I'd not be passive about it. I simply stated my opinion and the reasons that my opinion was founded.

EDITed for more aggression, as the user asked:
I don't know why you take the word "cute" to be an attack. Your theory does not make any sense given the facts that I stated in response. If it was meant as a serious theory (it did not read seriously to me, if that is the case), I would consider it busted.

Uh, look up the definition of passive aggressive, that's exactly what you were being.

Anyway, I posted it for a bit of fun to ask people for character lists, not to get questioned or attacked for why you think it's bad. If I wanted that, I could go to gamefaqs. I already told you it a baseless theory already in my last post.

Alright. Today is the day. If my hard read actually comes true, I don't know what is real anymore. Aside if Nintendo announces it themselves, I don't think a Tuesday has been more important than ever when talking about Smash and Directs. We still got plenty of franchises to go when it comes to music drops, but yet a good amount of them are needed to reveal someone. New franchises maybe?

6PM is gonna be one hell of a ride.

View attachment 161789

Does it happen around then usually?

 

[Deleted member]

It's funny to me that Fire Emblem gets a pass for its extremely large character count, because it is a "character based game" (wherein almost no characters are recurring). Many users will even compare it to the phenomenon that was and is Pokemon, a series that is by technicality, incomparable in media.

Yet, at Animal Crossing, a FULLY character based game (more character than gameplay, in fact), is scoffed.
I wonder how many crossover fans there are of Fire Emblem who love Animal Crossing, but think only the former deserves more playable characters.
Any takers on this? The only reason I can see Fire Emblem should have more than AC is due to it being a fighting game.

Fire Emblem offers diverse casts of characters with different fighting styles alongside multiple protagonists.
Animal Crossing has the same main characters with a non-entity playable character and nome of the generic villagers can offer much in terms or fighting styles, nor are they recognizable enough within their own fandom.

Or, more simply:
When people think of FE, they remember the characters. When people think of Pokemon, they remember the Pokemon.
When people think of AC, they remember the laid back decorating, catching bugs, feel-good nature and paying loans.

Not to say the AC characters aren't important to it, but they certainly aren't the focus.