Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pyra]

I wonder how many times it takes for the speculation community's arbitrary rules to be broken for people to realize that they aren't end-all-be-all 100% rigid guidelines

 

[MagnesD3]

Matching the original 8 kind of lines up with my current predictions, as it is.

Confirmed:
1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Simon Belmont
4. King K Rool

If 8 Newcomers:
5. Incineroar
6. Isaac
7. Banjo & Kazooie
8. Geno

If 12 Newcomers:
9. Bandana Waddle Dee
10. Skull Kid
11. Elma
12. Chorus Kids



How do I dislike a post?

jk



Same as previous--the worst timeline. Though, I stated in the B&K thread that there is a possibility that if Nintendo and Microsoft wanted to go all out, Banjo & Kazooie would be the playable character, Creeper assist, and Master Chief Mii costume. Sounds like something Sakurai would do that would break the internet in multiple ways.

I’d rather banjo be base game give Minecraft the assist trophy and have Master Chief be a dlc Character

 

[?????????????]

I wonder how many times it takes for the speculation community's arbitrary rules to be broken for people to realize that they aren't end-all-be-all 100% rigid guidelines

The correct answer is that it never ends.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Showertought: Bomberman was likely added as an AT after Simon was decided since he was already talking with Konami to bring Snake back and likely wanted the guy in some way. What if Rathalos was conceived in the same way, meaning we would be getting a new Capcom franchise, likely one without a character to make a boss out of it.
Hmmm...

Spoiler

And an Echo too?

I’d love to have these two great series that are basically synonymous with Nintendo in Smash. I don’t want to sound entitled, but I feel they deserve it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The series is very popular and has always been a Nintendo exclusive

*checks app store* Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[pupNapoleon]

I wonder how many times it takes for the speculation community's arbitrary rules to be broken for people to realize that they aren't end-all-be-all 100% rigid guidelines

Apparently more than 20 years.
Which is a generation.
And then we start again.

The correct answer is that it never ends.

...and it goes on and on, my friends...

 

[Deleted member]

Showertought: Bomberman was likely added as an AT after Simon was decided since he was already talking with Konami to bring Snake back and likely wanted the guy in some way. What if Rathalos was conceived in the same way, meaning we would be getting a new Capcom franchise, likely one without a character to make a boss out of it.
Hmmm...

.....please don't give the Dante "leak" any more ammunition than it already needs.....

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I just want to take a moment and say that whoever came up with the term echo fighter was a genius. People used to always hate on clones so much but once they slapped that echo fighter title on them suddenly everyone is like "MORE ECHOES!"

I strongly disagree with this assertion that the popularity of Echoes is simply people "falling for fancy marketing", I made this post before but there are three reasons I see why they're are a lot more popular this time around than clones were of the past:

1: People are much more knowledgeable about the reality of the clone development nowadays, so you have few people still legitimately thinking the clones are "taking a slot" from a unique newcomer, which was the main reason for why most of the people who disliked clones did so.

2: Echoes are being revealed upfront for what they are, unlike in Smash 4 and Melee where all the clones, besides Lucina, were kept secret until release and were presented as like any other character. The other big component of the backlash against clones in prior games were people getting really disappointed when they were expecting these popular characters with a wholly new moveset kept hidden for a surprise, for it to then turn out to be some clones, leading to significant disappointment and a terrible initial impression. Even characters with partial minimal cloning were subject to this, as the whole reason Wolf had a significant hatedom among the casual fanbase in Brawl was because they were expecting Ridley or Mega Man or some other big character with a whole new moveset for the final secret character and instead got what was "JUST ANOTHER FOX CLONE?!" in their view. This is also one of the main reasons why Dark Pit is a lot more hated than Lucina, as he was seen as a tremendous letdown for what people expected, while Lucina was revealed upfront as a clone and shared her reveal with a fully unique newcomer.

3: Most fans of the popular Echo candidates realize this is the only realistic chance their favored character has of getting into Smash in a playable capacity, and thus will gladly take it over getting nothing at all, while even for those with a more realistic chance to get in as their own character like Dixie, many fans will still take this easy ticket in rather than risk not having them in.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I want a short video where Sakurai says he’s seen the “leaks” and only laughs at how fake they all are.

"I gave you everything you ever wanted, and told you to never ask me for anything ever again. Yet, you not only beg for more, but create fake leaks to give people false hope. Ultimate's now canceled."

 

[Mc.Rad]

I wonder how many times it takes for the speculation community's arbitrary rules to be broken for people to realize that they aren't end-all-be-all 100% rigid guidelines

Probably when Goku is finally added into Smash Bros, lol

 

[Paperchampion23]

*grabs by the collar* Shish I swear don't raise my hopes I will beat you to death with a plastic toy sword that plays techno music

Virgil as an echo? I dunno, Virgil has a more uhhhhhhhh 'finesse' swordstyle? Also the 'multiple swords surrounding him' attack is exclusive to Virgil right?

True, not really an echo type character.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm still really bothered by Alph being a costume. You can talk about Sakurai bias all you want but "Dark Pit can't use the Three Sacred Treasures" being used as the justification as to why he wasn't a costume when Alph uses the Hocotate Ship is complete and utter bull****

*grabs by the collar* Shish I swear don't raise my hopes I will beat you to death with a plastic toy sword that plays techno music

Virgil as an echo? I dunno, Virgil has a more uhhhhhhhh 'finesse' swordstyle? Also the 'multiple swords surrounding him' attack is exclusive to Virgil right?

No credible leaks talked about Phoenix and if Robin, Lucina, Duck Hunt and Boswer Jr taught me anything is that that must meam he's in.

*checks app store* Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Pokemon, Mario, AC and FE not exclusive to Nintendo confimed.

Serious answer is that mobile platforms are not direct competitors to Nintendo, as Nintendo doesn't produce mobile devices.

.....please don't give the Dante "leak" any more ammunition than it already needs.....

Hold on I had an idea

 

[Firewolf73]

When we get even a single character based on relevance timeline, this will mean a bit more.
Until then, youre arguing why Hilda should have gotten into Sm4sh.

included

When we get even a single character based on relevance timeline, this will mean a bit more.
Until then, youre arguing why Hilda should have gotten into Sm4sh.

But in sm4sh Zelda still used the twilight princess design which looked nothing like Hilda now she has the similar design which looks like Hilda and still no Hilda alt. I’m not saying Hilda is guaranteed, some of us just think it’s not impossible.

I’m also not just talking about relevance, I mean the girl (Hilda) literally makes an almost perfect echo lol aside from the staff. She’s a dark version of Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd disagree with Olimar not showing personality.

His "hip swivel while holding imaginary suspender straps" dance taunt seems exactly like something a forty year old working class family man would do.

Wait, people are saying he has no personality? I always thought he was one of the funniest characters in the series since his introduction in Brawl. His taunts and victory animations are all gold. He's right up there with Dedede, Luigi and DK for me in terms of displaying character and being really entertaining to watch, but eh, to each their own I suppose.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I wonder how many times it takes for the speculation community's arbitrary rules to be broken for people to realize that they aren't end-all-be-all 100% rigid guidelines

This is really important to remember.

However, one counternote to this is that Sakurai has stated he's taking from the ballot now, so people's claims on picking generally popular characters from now on have a reason to pick them at least.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm still really bothered by Alph being a costume. You can talk about Sakurai bias all you want but "Dark Pit can't use the Three Sacred Treasures" being used as the justification as to why he wasn't a costume when Alph uses the Hocotate Ship is complete and utter bull****

No credible leaks talked about Phoenix and if Robin, Lucina, Duck Hunt and Boswer Jr taught me anything is that that must meam he's in.

Pokemon, Mario, AC and FE not exclusive to Nintendo confimed.

Serious answer is that mobile platforms are not direct competitors to Nintendo, as Nintendo doesn't produce mobile devices.

Hold on I had an idea

I mean the Phillips CDI and Tearring Saga must count right?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Showertought: Bomberman was likely added as an AT after Simon was decided since he was already talking with Konami to bring Snake back and likely wanted the guy in some way. What if Rathalos was conceived in the same way, meaning we would be getting a new Capcom franchise, likely one without a character to make a boss out of it.
Hmmm...

Spoiler

And an Echo too?

I wouldn’t be against such sexiness

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So did that direct announcement happen or not

 

[pupNapoleon]

I strongly disagree with this assertion that the popularity of Echoes is simply people "falling for fancy marketing", I made this post before but there are three reasons I see why they're are a lot more popular this time around than clones were of the past:

1: People are much more knowledgeable about the reality of the clone development nowadays, so you have few people still legitimately thinking the clones are "taking a slot" from a unique newcomer, which was the main reason most people disliked clones.

2: Echoes are being revealed upfront for what they are, unlike in Smash 4 and Melee where all the clones, besides Lucina, were kept secret until release and were presented as like any other character. The other big component of the backlash against clones in prior games were people getting really disappointed when they were expecting these popular characters with a wholly new moveset kept hidden for a surprise, for it to then turn out to be some clones, leading to significant disappointment and a terrible initial impression. Even characters with partial minimal cloning were subject to this, as the whole reason Wolf had a significant hatedom among the casual fanbase in Brawl was because they were expecting Ridley or Mega Man or some other big character with a whole new moveset for the final secret character and instead got what was "JUST ANOTHER FOX CLONE?!" in their view. This is also one of the main reasons why Dark Pit is a lot more hated than Lucina, as he was seen as a tremendous letdown for what people expected, while Lucina was revealed upfront as a clone and shared her reveal with a fully unique newcomer.

3: Most fans of the popular Echo candidates realize this is the only realistic chance their favored character has of getting into Smash in a playable capacity, and thus will gladly take it over getting nothing at all, while even for those with a more realistic chance to get in as their own character like Dixie, many fans will still take this easy ticket in rather than risk not having them in.

To that I'd like to at the Chrom Conditioning, which states that when an echo being able to take aspects from more than one character, to help differentiate why they are unique, makes a character becoming an Echo less of a downgrade and more of an appeal to who they really are supposed to be.
This is why Dixie can be a Diddy clone- because we know she could take Donkey Kong's up B, and even add in an entirely new hover mechanic (which could be utilized by other fighters, like Rayman).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is really important to remember.

However, one counternote to this is that Sakurai has stated he's taking from the ballot now, so people's claims on picking generally popular characters from now on have a reason to pick them at least.

Given that statement, was chosen because of the ballot? It would make sense, since I remember her being a popular request during the ballot period.

 

[Paperchampion23]

So did that direct announcement happen or not

No, we can't be sure until tmrw evening the latest

 

[Pyra]

Probably when Goku is finally added into Smash Bros, lol

"No, the rule is only SHONEN characters can get into Smash!!1!! Always has been!!!"

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Probably when Goku is finally added into Smash Bros, lol

"No manga characters" is an actual rule stated by Sakurai, not something made up by the fanbase.

 

[pupNapoleon]

But she in smash 4 she used twilight princess design, no one expected her to get in. Now she has that new design ALTTP/ALBW so people are talking about her.

I’m not saying she’s getting in tho, just saying it’s not impossible.

included

But in sm4sh Zelda still used the twilight princess design which looked nothing like Hilda now she has the similar design which looks like Hilda and still no Hilda alt. I’m not saying Hilda is guaranteed, some of us just think it’s not impossible.

I’m also not just talking about relevance, I mean the girl (Hilda) literally makes an almost perfect echo lol aside from the staff. She’s a dark version of Zelda.

After Chrom, I dont think I know what a "perfect echo" even is. Some appear to only have cosmetic changes, and others are a hodge-podge of other items.

Given that statement, was chosen because of the ballot? It would make sense, since I remember her being a popular request during the ballot period.

Inkling would have gotten in either way- Splatoon is now one of Nintendo's pillar franchises. It's the face of Nintendo's online gaming. It is the face of new Nintendo.

 

[ES. Dinah]

I doubt KOS-MOS would be in Smash.

We’d for sure get Elma first if anyone.

Man I hate when people say KOS-MOS wouldn't be in smash. Sure, Elma would come first maybe but dont dismiss the possibility.

More info at my thread https://smashboards.com/threads/kos-mos-reactivates-into-battle-kos-mos-for-smash-switch.451936/

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Sure, but...shouldn't it be a Unovan Pokemon that's like...uh.....good?

Not that Gothitelle is "bad," but I KNOW I never saw anything close to resembling support for it until this obviously fake leak. It didn't even make the Top 400 for most popular Pokemon back during XY.

Why not, like...Zoroark? Or Krookodile? Something that's TRULY representative of Gen 5, and not just a "token Gen 5 choice"?

I think Gothielle actually getting in is as absurd a prospect as most people do, however since this hypothetical Gothielle would be as an Echo of a hypothetical Gardevoir newcomer, the whole "why not this more popular gen 5 pokemon instead?" argument isn't a valid refutation, as presumably the Gothielle Echo would happen because Sakurai didn't want to devote the resources to two new standalone Pokemon newcomers, thus a more popular gen 5 pokemon would need to be a workable Echo off an existing playable character to get chosen instead in this hypothetical scenario.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Given that statement, was chosen because of the ballot? It would make sense, since I remember her being a popular request during the ballot period.

It's possible, but I specifically mean more Ridley, K. Rool, all the returning characters, Chrom and Dark Samus being generally popular characters that scored high on the ballot (not that inkling didn't, I just didn't hear much about her personally since splatoon only just came out at the time).

If these picks were possible, then people constantly picking Banjo, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and Geno among others have merit and weight to them.

They are the most-likelies at this point in time, unless Sakurai completely throws us for a loop in the future, which is possible.

 

[NintenZ]

So did that direct announcement happen or not

Nope, it’s still just a rumor but it seems highly likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Given that statement, was chosen because of the ballot? It would make sense, since I remember her being a popular request during the ballot period.

Inkling was most likely gonna be in no matter what. Splatoon was a breakout success with a sequel already in development around the time Ultimate went into development. I wouldn't be surprised if Inkling was one of the first newcomers Sakurai and Nintendo decided on.

As someone who voted for them on the ballot, though, it is a neat thought that may have helped things.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Man I hate when people say KOS-MOS wouldn't be in smash. Sure, Elma would come first maybe but dont dismiss the possibility.

More info at my thread https://smashboards.com/threads/kos-mos-reactivates-into-battle-kos-mos-for-smash-switch.451936/

Shower thought: what if Heihachi was indeed planned for Ultimate, but because they couldn’t record lines before the VO passed away, they decided that we’ll be getting KOS-MOS instead?

And yes I’m aware that they could just reuse voice clips for Heihachi, but they’d probably want trailer only spoken dialogue for him like with Ryu. And recasting is too soon for Heihachi imo

 

[?????????????]

I think Gothielle actually getting in is as absurd a prospect as most people do, however since this hypothetical Gothielle would be as an Echo of a hypothetical Gardevoir newcomer, the whole "why not this more popular gen 5 pokemon instead?" argument isn't a valid refutation, as presumably the Gothielle Echo would happen because Sakurai didn't want to devote the resources to two new standalone Pokemon newcomers, thus a more popular gen 5 pokemon would need to be a workable Echo off an existing playable character to get chosen instead in this hypothetical scenario.

Here's my problem with that;

I think even the echoes are characters with notable followings. Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus? They're still pretty popular.

I don't think Gothitelle is even "important" enough for that.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

.....please don't give the Dante "leak" any more ammunition than it already needs.....

Whats funny is that the Dante leak still has more validity to it than like 90% of the leaks we see come through here.

If I recall correctly, the guy hasn't gotten anything wrong about DMCV.

 

[praline]

Shower thought: what if Heihachi was indeed planned for Ultimate, but because they couldn’t record lines before the VO passed away, they decided that we’ll be getting KOS-MOS instead?

And yes I’m aware that they could just reuse voice clips for Heihachi, but they’d probably want trailer only spoken dialogue for him like with Ryu. And recasting is too soon for Heihachi imo

Forget KOS-MOS. They should choose Nightmare instead

 

[KMDP]

Real talk, I'll be surprised if there's no Ace Attorney representation in Ultimate to any extent. The series is very popular and has always been a Nintendo exclusive. At least give me a Phoenix AT and some music damnit.

It's always been Nintendo Exclusive, except the time it was on Mobile.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"No manga characters" is an actual rule stated by Sakurai, not something made up by the fanbase.

So what you're saying is Kamen Rider has a chance and could have Over Quartzer play on a stage

 

[Deleted member]

now she has the similar design which looks like Hilda and still no Hilda alt.

Sometimes, characters don't get alt costumes you would expect them to have. I don't think the absence of a Hilda color is a good point in favor of, or against Hilda.

Whats funny is that the Dante leak still has more validity to it than like 90% of the leaks we see come through here.

If I recall correctly, the guy hasn't gotten anything wrong about DMCV.

Didn't the Dante guy not have any identifier, so literally anyone could've added the Smash info? I don't remember, so feel free to correct me.

 

[NintenZ]

Wait then the idea is that they announce the direct on the day it's airing? Ultimate's marketing has been really ****ing odd but that's just taking the mick. Even if this is a regular Direct that's not the brightest idea

I’m not certain it would be a regular direct if they announced it the day it aired, it would be like a Mini or Micro Direct probably in all honesty if that were the case.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Shower thought: what if Heihachi was indeed planned for Ultimate, but because they couldn’t record lines before the VO passed away, they decided that we’ll be getting KOS-MOS instead?

And yes I’m aware that they could just reuse voice clips for Heihachi, but they’d probably want trailer only spoken dialogue for him like with Ryu. And recasting is too soon for Heihachi imo

Would be a waste of an entire characters work wouldn't you think? Some of these characters can take up to a year to make. Plus KOS-MOS has other Bandai competitors she has to deal with aside from Heihachi (personally speaking)

 

[ES. Dinah]

Shower thought: what if Heihachi was indeed planned for Ultimate, but because they couldn’t record lines before the VO passed away, they decided that we’ll be getting KOS-MOS instead?

And yes I’m aware that they could just reuse voice clips for Heihachi, but they’d probably want trailer only spoken dialogue for him like with Ryu. And recasting is too soon for Heihachi imo

It's certainly possible and there is also the fact Sakurai said Heihachi's moveset was hard to design. That's a chance for KOS-MOS if she can beat Lloyd.

 

[Deleted member]

"No manga characters" is an actual rule stated by Sakurai, not something made up by the fanbase.

Ironically, that's never actually been a absolute "rule" like the fanbase makes it out to be.
Just when addressing additional guests for Brawl, he said that "manga characters will not join the battle".

While unlikely we'd get one anytime soon unless Sakurai decided to at least try to get Goku in the game because of his fan demand, it's never been a legitimate "rule" that can "never be broken". :V