Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

How would you guys react to Rex & Pyra making it but Elma being an Assist Trophy?

I don't think they're competing for a spot on the base roster.

 

[pupNapoleon]

What is wrong with more Mother rep

We have a limited number of spots left.
There is no value in adding another Mother character.
We have the franchise and the mechanics therein represented just fine.
Anyone likely to find Mother through Smash is already going to find it.
Other fans are already clued in.

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

 

[Deleted member]

There's one itty bitty problem with that...

Unless they did it as babies too, and do you REALLY want to suggest that?

Babies can have very wild imaginations. :V

 

[Will]

Tbh, I don't really understand why we're so adamant that we even need another Mother character.

Name one person who said that.

Also as an aside, am I the only one who vastly prefers Lucas?

No.
Lucas has one thing that the other protagonists don't. A little thing called "character development".

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We have a limited number of spots left.
There is no value in adding another Mother character.
We have the franchise and the mechanics therein represented just fine.
Anyone likely to find Mother through Smash is already going to find it.
Other fans are already clued in.

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

What about Porky though? One he'd fit well into the villains and supposed heroes vs. villains/rivals theme being Ness' as well as playing like Bowser Jr. in his Spider-Bot.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Hey Guys is the Boshi as a Yoshi echo fighter a meme or are you guys serious

 

[SirCamp]

Name one person who said that.

Well people seem to be trying pretty hard to make Ninten work, so naturally I assumed that another Mother rep is what people in this thread were wanting at the moment.

 

[MainJPW]

There's one itty bitty problem with that...

Unless they did it as babies too, and do you REALLY want to suggest that?

I mean, it could explain why they can see their younger selves driving beside them in Mario Kart.

 

[Nethermoosen]

There's one itty bitty problem with that...

Unless they did it as babies too, and do you REALLY want to suggest that?

I don’t think their early memories are all that dependable, especially spending the rest of the time under the influence. Not to mention, their childhood from then until adulthood is suspiciously missing from canon.

 

[Will]

What about Porky though? One he'd fit well into the villains and supposed heroes vs. villains/rivals theme being Ness' as well as playing like Bowser Jr. in his Spider-Bot.

The whole "THE GAME'S THEME IS HEROES VS VILLAINS!!!" is a meme to me. It's unproven, and it's only a coincidence we're getting more villains than usual. Probably because they're popular and made notes on the ballot. Alax keeps preaching that **** like it's absolutely the game's theme when we don't even know the rest of the roster which could be just protagonists or neutral characters. What do you call it then? A lot of good guys vs 3 bad guys?

Well people seem to be trying pretty hard to make Ninten work, so naturally I assumed that another Mother rep is what people in this thread were wanting at the moment.

There's a difference between wanting something and saying it needs something.

 

[Zinith]

Hey Guys is the Boshi as a Yoshi echo fighter a meme or are you guys serious

I'm not sure about the 20 or so users who are on Boshi's support list on my thread, but for ME it most certainly ISN'T a meme.

 

[aarchak]

The whole "THE GAME'S THEME IS HEROES VS VILLAINS!!!" is a meme to me. It's unproven, and it's only a coincidence we're getting more villains than usual. Probably because they're popular and made notes on the ballot. Alax keeps preaching that **** like it's absolutely the game's theme when we don't even know the rest of the roster which could be just protagonists or neutral characters. What do you call it then? A lot of good guys vs 3 bad guys?


There's a difference between wanting something and saying something needs something.

There have been 3 villains announced for this game, and apparently that's enough to constitute a pattern, despite the fact that the other, more likely factor pulling them in is popularity.

 

[Idon]

Saying newcomers are going to adhere to a theme to begin with is laughably delusional.

Sakurai isn't going to limit the scope of his game to fit some party trick.

 

[Will]

I'm not sure about the 20 or so users who are on Boshi's support list on my thread, but for ME it most certainly ISN'T a meme.

Well, people sometimes tend to think you think he's more probable than just having him wanted.
you don't actually think that do you

 

[pupNapoleon]

Do you really wanna make people complain about "too many heavies" before the game comes out?

It does not matter if people complain if their arguments are unsubstantiated.

If even a single person thinks that this is too many heavy characters, then happily, I tell them to not buy the game.
How about those of us who want more than 1/8 of the roster to have some weight? Let's consider the numbers.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The whole "THE GAME'S THEME IS HEROES VS VILLAINS!!!" is a meme to me. It's unproven, and it's only a coincidence we're getting more villains than usual. Probably because they're popular and made notes on the ballot. Alax keeps preaching that **** like it's absolutely the game's theme when we don't even know the rest of the roster which could be just protagonists or neutral characters. What do you call it then? A lot of good guys vs 3 bad guys?

Which is why I said supposed.

 

[Zinith]

Well, people sometimes tend to think you think he's more probable than just having him wanted.
you don't actually think that do you

I think he's 2-3% likely. Is that too high of a number?

 

[P.Kat]

How would you guys react to Rex & Pyra making it but Elma being an Assist Trophy?

*Ahem* GIVE ME BOTH (playable) OR GIVE ME DEATH!

Also give me all of them with a swimsuit alt or give me death.

 

[Will]

Which is why I said supposed.

Yeah, what about it? I just wanted to rant because you mentioned it.

 

[UberMadman]

So here's a little game.

Disregard how likely you think the characters are.

Tell us how interested or satisfied you'd be with the character if included.

Sounds fun! I haven’t has the chance to play a lot of the games these newcomers represent, but I’ll give it a shot regardless.

Incineroar

I like Incineroar as a Pokémon, but I love Decidueye way more, and so having his inclusion basically mean that Decidueye will never be in Smash is a depressing thought. That said, now that I’ve accepted the fact that it is almost definitely getting in, I won’t be as upset at its inclusion as I would have been before. I’m genuinely thankful to vergeben for that. Now, I actually am sort of looking forward to its inclusion!

Ken

Akuma is actually my favorite Street Fighter character, but it feels weirder to have Ryu without Ken than it is to have him without Akuma, even if Akuma is probably in more crossover games than Ken. I’m genuinely looking forward to Ken’s inclusion in this game.

Isabelle

She’ll be fun to have around! I’m not crazy stoked or anything, but I like Isabelle as a character enough, and I know a couple of people who will probably be ecstatic if she makes the roster.

Geno

I WOULD FLIP MY ****. With one other character on this list, he is hands down my most wanted newcomer. I love Geno to death, and Super Mario RPG is just a fantastic game.

Isaac

Golden Sun has been on my “to-play list” for a while. Isaac has a cool design an interesting set of powers that would lead to a fun character, from what I’ve observed, and one of my best friends is a huge fan of the original Golden Sun, so I would feel really happy for him too.

Monster Hunter

Sure, why not? Haven’t played the franchise yet, but it’s a pretty cool franchise from what I’ve seen. Plus, I like how the character was executed in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, even if the game itself had a lot of issues. A little on the indifferent side, but I imagine they could probably do some interesting things with a monster hunter.

Lloyd Irving

I know next to nothing of the Tales series, and only know Lloyd stuff from SSF2, but he has a cool design.

Dixie Kong

I love Dixie! She’s a really fun character, and a Donkey Kong staple. I really think she deserves the spot.

Impa

Relatively indifferent. I like how she’s executed in Skyward Sword and Hyrule Warriors, but I don’t quite understand why the demand for her is so high.

Skull Kid

Majora’s Mask is my favorite Zelda title, and I love Skull Kid, so naturally I’d be happy to see him in. However, strangely enough I’m... not as excited at the prospect as I could be? No idea why; I was relatively bummed when he took so long to be put in Hyrule Warriors, even though I really liked the Majora’s Mask DLC otherwise. Maybe it’s because I don’t expect him as much as everyone else does, so I haven’t pumped myself up for his inclusion. I imagine that if I actually saw gameplay of him that I liked, he would be one of my most anticipated characters to actually play.

Black Shadow

Definitely the character I’m the most indifferent towards on this list. I haven’t played much F-Zero, and Black Shadow’s design isn’t terribly interesting to me. I also think him running around like Captain Falcon might look a little silly. On the other hand, I completely understand why the F-Zero fanbase wants another representative, and Black Shadow is a very important character. I just think he wouldn’t look right as a Falcon echo, and I don’t think he’s important enough a priority to warrant taking the dev time to give him an original moveset.

Bandana Waddle Dee

THIS is the other character I’m most eagerly anticipating. I love this adorable little guy! I instantly fell in love with him after Kirby’s Return to Dreamland, and his continued presence in the Kirby series has brought me nothing but joy. If he doesn’t make it into the base roster, I will be pushing hard for Dee-L-C.

Ninten

As long as they go with the design for him in the commercial and find ways to incorporate aspects of Mother 1 into his visual and sound effects, I think Ninten would be a fun inclusion. Masked Man over Lucas would be a better echo though, but Lucas still has his alt that references Masked Man, if I remember correctly.

Spoiler: “Mother 3 spoiler”

(And no, I’m not talking about the Claus alt.)

Diskun

You mean that yellow guy that is the impossible-to-obtain trophy in Melee? I would think Takamaru, Lip, or Sukapon would have made better retro reps, but they all seem to be deconfirmed now. I’m sure Sakurai could find a way to make me like him. ...It IS a him, right?

Raiden

MGS2-era Raiden wouldn’t make for a bad Snake echo, but that would mean we would probably never get MGS4/Revengeance Raiden as a unique fighter in a future installment, and that would be a shame. As a result, I would think that MGS1-era Liquid would be the best echo for Snake.

Big Boss

Speaking of which, why do people want Big Boss as an echo for Snake? They sound exactly the same, act almost exactly the same, and look pretty much exactly the same except for the eyepatch that Big Boss has. I would think that he would make for a much better Alph-or-Koopaling style costume with some unique voice lines than he would as an echo fighter.

Shadow

Now THIS would be an echo fighter I would get behind. In fact, he’s easily my most requested echo fighter. He doesn’t even need a teleport or unique final smash, as cool as they would be; just his unique animations and personality would be enough. Sonic Adventure 2 remains to this day one of my favorite video games ever made, despite all its flaws. I’m extremely sentimental towards it, and to Shadow, and to the Sonic series as a whole. Hell, I would throw in 4 more Sonic characters into Smash if I was given the chance.

Elma

As of right now, the only Xenoblade game I have played is the original, even though I actually do own the other two, (and I will get to them eventually, I swear.) That said, I really like the designs of both Elma and Rex, and I think they would both make for very interesting Smash characters. I think she’s extremely likely too, even though that’s besides the point. Anyway, even though I haven’t played her game yet, I would still actively look forward to her inclusion.

Rex and Pyra

Even though he is almost definitely not making the base roster, (and is almost definitely a lock for DLC as a result, assuming we get DLC,) I would be even more happy with Rex’s inclusion in the roster than I would with Elma’s. I think Elma has the more interesting design as far as JRPG protagonists go, but I think Rex’s blade mechanics would be far more interesting to have on a gameplay level. Ideally, I would love to have them both!

Jeanne

I’ve only played a bit of Bayonetta 1 so far, but Jeanne seems cool. Give her a unique Final Smash, and she’s already a justified echo fighter in my eyes. Not eagerly anticipating her or anything, but I would be happy to have her around regardless.

Spring Man

Another character who is in a “probably not base roster, probably in as DLC” situation. Haven’t got around to buying ARMS yet, but goddamn do I think he’d be cool to have in Smash. He just screams interesting gameplay gimmick.

Wonder Red

Sadly, I haven’t gotten around to playing my copy of Wonderful 101 either. If Sakurai could accurately represent his game through his gameplay, I think he would be a fine inclusion, but I would think that would be a little hard given the nature of his game.

 

[KMDP]

We have a limited number of spots left.
There is no value in adding another Mother character.
We have the franchise and the mechanics therein represented just fine.
Anyone likely to find Mother through Smash is already going to find it.
Other fans are already clued in.

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

To be honest, it would kind of leave a bad taste in my mouth if Mother gets three characters before Nintendo's other JRPG series, Golden Sun, even gets one.

That's just me not being a fan of Mother and being a fan of Golden Sun, though; and before anyone says anything, I know the "[x] series can't get more reps before [y] series gets [#] reps" argument is a stupid one.

 

[aarchak]

It does not matter if people complain if their arguments are unsubstantiated.

If even a single person thinks that this is too many heavy characters, then happily, I tell them to not buy the game.
How about those of us who want more than 1/8 of the roster to have some weight? Let's consider the numbers.

And yet, people still complain about "too many sword characters" despite there not being that many more sword characters in the game.

 

[DarkFalcon]

*Ahem* GIVE ME BOTH (playable) OR GIVE ME DEATH!

Also give me all of them with a swimsuit alt or give me death.

Ah, I see you're a boi/grill of culture as well.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Thoughts if these characters make the cut?

-Agumon
-Amaterasu
-Ayumi Tachibana
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Black Knight(E)
-Chorus Kids
-Cranky Kong
-Crash Bandicoot
-Decidueye
-Gardevoir
-Glass Joe(E)
-Hades
-Heihachi Mishima
-Kat & Ana
-Karate Joe
-King Boo
-King Hippo
-Medusa(E)
-Metal Sonic(E)
-Mona
-Nightmare
-Octoling(E)
-Paper Mario
-Phosphora
-Porky Minch
-Rayman
-Saki Amamiya
-Shantae
-Sylux
-Toon Zelda

(E) means Echo Fighter

Agumon: Pokemon vs Digimon? **** yeah!
Amaterasu: Not familiar with the games. Nice to have more quadrupeds, interested to see how it plays.
Ayumi Tachibana: Simultaneously surprised, and not surprised at Sakurai.
Banjo-Kazooie: My childhood dreams come true! The roster is now complete--everything else is just a plus from here on out.
Black Knight(E): Doesn't make sense to me, but not an FE fan. Also not an FE fan, another one?
Chorus Kids: Glad for the fans, looks like it could be interesting.
Cranky Kong: Technically better than Funky Kong, but not necessary?
Crash Bandicoot: Awesome! Loved Crash. Can't wait for the Nintendo vs Sega vs Sony vs Microsoft battle of the ages. Can't wait to see Gettys reaction.
Decidueye: With Pokemon Trainer, no need for another grass type. Probably the more interesting choice outside Lycanroc/Buzzwole though.
Gardevoir: Same as above, with the add WTF of going with an older generation.
Glass Joe(E): Kinda interesting, though doesn't add much?
Hades: An actually cool KI character? Awesome, Sakurai bias be damned.
Heihachi Mishima: I'd rather all fighter characters be DLC. The interesting hook of Smash is characters you *wouldn't* expect in a fighting game.
Kat & Ana: Don't think it's necessary, but glad for the fans. Ashley fans are gonna be pissed.
Karate Joe: I think Chorus Kids would've been more interesting.
King Boo: What? Now Sakurai is just adding any Mario character as he ran out? It's not Mario Party/Kart.
King Hippo: Don't think we need another unique Punch Out fighter, but could be interesting, I guess.
Medusa(E): Be great to have more villains, a female this time (outside of maybe not really Dark Samus), and a KI rep. Nice.
Metal Sonic(E): Um, no. Violates my "Don't share a name" rule, despite technically being a different character. Doesn't work as an echo.
Mona: Who?
Nightmare (Kirby): Who? (please don't hate me--I only played Kirby 64)
Nightmare (Soulcalibur): Who? Similar to my qualms about Heihachi, though I liked the little Soulcalibur I have played, and looks ****ing awesome!
Octoling(E): Unnecessary, but glad for the fans. I might prefer them to Inklings, though, especially if Teal looks cool.
Paper Mario: Again, violates my "Don't share a name" rule, though cool that it's different. If we replace Dr. Mario with him, even better.
Phosphora: Who? Surprised it's not Viridi.
Porky Minch: Probably not necessary, but cool to have an Earthbound villain. Can't wait to see how he makes... this work.
Rayman: Nice! Not a fan of the games, though he fits in Smash, being a gaming icon/mascot. Nice to see that Ubisoft partnership working out.
Saki Amamiya: Who? This mixture of beam sword and gun play could look awesome.
Shantae: Wow. Glad for the fans and indie representation. Out of all the indie reps mentioned, she has the best moves. Still.. doesn't feel right.
Sylux: Would rather him than Dark Samus. Seriously, we don't need three Samuses. Looks cool.
Toon Zelda: *sigh* Better than a fourth Samus I guess.

Yeah, so my knowledge of video gaming, including some of Smash history, is--well, poor. But that's what's great about Smash! Introduces you to characters you previously never knew about. Unless you're an assist trophy, in which case I probably don't know much about you. Also, apologies if I made any mistakes in my research--can't wait to get Ultimate, as I'll try to take it more seriously this time around, and maybe learn some stuff!

Also, you might see a common theme with some echoes, semi-clones and alternate characters. My rule is "Don't share a name with someone on the roster." So even if two characters are *technically* different, if they look too similar and share the same name, I feel like it's just padding at that point and I hate seeing doubles--worse if they're echoes and there's virtually no difference outside of being an alt skin. Glad for the fans, though!

EDIT:

I'm not sure about the 20 or so users who are on Boshi's support list on my thread, but for ME it most certainly ISN'T a meme.

Boshi doesn't share a name with Yoshi, despite only a one letter difference. Doesn't violate my one rule

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

This is weird argument. In what way is adding another mother character gratuitous in that adding another Pokemon/Metroid/Zelda/Fire Emblem/ETC. character isn't? Also angering fans of other series really isn't a big deal because if that was the case Chrom would still be Robin's Final smash. And Dark samus probably would still be a costume. Before the reveal of echo fighters i doubt many were even Considering Dark Samus as a potential character, is it not gratuitous to add Dark Samus then? especially since Metroid got Ridley.

Ninten in theory would work well as a echo fighter. Will he be in? I don't know! But I don't believe it's fair to immediately shoot the topic down because of some belief that adding another Mother character is gratuitous.

Also it's really weird to claim that wanting another mother character (or that the mother series is at a deficit) is somehow more selfish than wanting literally any other character. The whole point of wanting things is that you hope the developers will cater to your hopes over someone else's. That's selfishness whether you wanted Ninten or Ridley. So this argument just kinda falls flat. It really isn't that big of deal either way

 

[DarkFalcon]

Tetra would be a ****ing cool new Zelda rep. Get Skull Kid outta here. Tetra is where it's at.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Saying newcomers are going to adhere to a theme to begin with is laughably delusional.

Sakurai isn't going to limit the scope of his game to fit some party trick.

I feel that if it were true that there was a Villain theme, it would be because those were the popular characters that coincidentally made it into the finalized plan in 2015. From there, I could see a relative abundance of villain newcomers guiding a sub-theme for the reveal process. Not the other way ‘round.

I do agree that there still isn’t enough evidence to support the idea, though. I just remember someone said that it would be heroes vs villains in a leak before E3 and, since the K. Rool reveal sequence, people have adhered to the idea. The fact is, that may have been the only thing the leaker actually saw and assumed that it would be prevalent and thus, spread it as alleged fact.

 

[Will]

I also think him running around like Captain Falcon might look a little silly.

Yeah, after Dark Samus was shown having animations exactly like Samus, such as her standing and totally not floating postion, it made me rethink if Echoes were a good idea in the first place.
wait a minute

 

[PlasmaDam]

Uh Just make Boshi a Costume i dont think he desreves a spot as an echo

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nightmare: Who? (please don't hate me--I only played Kirby 64)

Should've probably been more clear there. Referring to Nightmare from Soul Calibur.

 

[Soulsaint]

I dunno... most seem to have pretty strong personalities. Just not strong stories.
I could not tell you Mario's thoughts on anything, but give me a scenario and I could pretty easily predict how any of the characters would interact.
Have boatloads of personality. Are not terrible.

I think you can add Luigi to boatloads aswel. He has a much more pronounced character then Mario. Daisy along with Waluigi do have some personality in the sports games. There problem is more just not being featured as much as other characters. I mean especially Waluigi has surprising amount of personality put in despite being in only a few games.

Mario is kind of dry, but he is the series mascot so it's probably for a reason, but for that reason, I much prefer his brother.

 

[Will]

Uh Just make Boshi a Costume i dont think he desreves a spot as an echo

Why did you have to remind me of Sakurai's ultimate sin?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Tetra would be a ****ing cool new Zelda rep. Get Skull Kid outta here. Tetra is where it's at.

Watch how Toon Zelda gets in over her and Skull Kid.

 

[Zinith]

Uh Just make Boshi a Costume i dont think he desreves a spot as an echo

I mean, I'd take it, but there's nothing wrong with asking for him to be an Echo as he is a Yoshi with a separate personality

 

[Hinata]

Why did you have to remind me of Sakurai's ultimate sin?

Alph's not an echo ecause Brittany's gonna be the echo, duh.

 

[aarchak]

Why did you have to remind me of Sakurai's ultimate sin?

Thanks for reminding me Alph existed at all. I forgot he was even in Smash until I looked at that post for a solid 5 seconds.

 

[Will]

Watch how Toon Zelda gets in over her and Skull Kid.

The one thing Toon Zelda could've gotten to make her uniquely stand out was robbed from her by Zelda's new down special.
tetra is okay though just give her the giant ass sword from hyrule warriors and maybe the dual pistols. make her a mini bayonetta idk

 

[Idon]

Uh Just make Boshi a Costume i dont think he desreves a spot as an echo

Dr. Mario exists as a clone.
Who even cares about deserving when echoes are just alt costumes+ to begin with.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Alph's not an echo ecause Brittany's gonna be the echo, duh.

You spelled Louie wrong.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Hey Guys is the Boshi as a Yoshi echo fighter a meme or are you guys serious

I support Boshi cause he's cool not because i think he have a real shot. 2-3% chance maybe like Zinith says but probably as a Yoshi's alt. If Geno gets in they could just throw a Boshi alt costume in the Mario RPG package along with some ATs, songs and a Stage.