Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

We have a limited number of spots left.
There is no value in adding another Mother character.
We have the franchise and the mechanics therein represented just fine.
Anyone likely to find Mother through Smash is already going to find it.
Other fans are already clued in.

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

There are not a lot of series left that you could argue really need representation anymore though, we're getting close to the point where characters can be added on the sole merit of being cool additions. Like, you could argue DKC and Kirby could use a 4th character, and Xenoblade warrants a 2nd one at this point, but beyond that series representation is largely in a good spot. Some would argue Zelda, but fact remains that it doesn't have any essentials that aren't in yet, even as a fan and someone who's most wanted is Skull Kid at this point I think it's still in a fine spot.

I'm always just grateful for how much content Mother has at all, so I'm not ever going to argue that it needs anything more, but I don't think it'd be blasphemous if it got either an echo or a DLC newcomer (although the latter is highly unlikely due to Mother not exactly being a money maker).

 

[Will]

You spelled Louie wrong.

God that would make me so goddamn angry if it happened.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Name one person who said that.


No.
Lucas has one thing that the other protagonists don't. A little thing called "character development".

False. Lucad doesn't just have character development, Lucas has SOME character period

 

[Will]

False. Lucad doesn't just have character development, Lucas has SOME character period

That's better than the husk of children the other two were.
At least Ninten spoke. That won't spare him from getting my judgement for failing the thot patrol by saying he loves Ana like 2 hours after meeting her.

 

[P.Kat]

Ah, I see you're a boi/grill of culture as well.

Thanks and for future reference I'm a guy

 

[DarkFalcon]

God that would make me so goddamn angry if it happened.

I sense a dislike for Louie here.

 

[MaestroDavros]

So 92MilesPrower , are you planning on doing Codex's for the new characters? Unless you've already done them and I've just missed them.

 

[Soulsaint]

Should've probably been more clear there. Referring to Nightmare from Soul Calibur.

Soul Calibur does have a new title coming up, however it might be the last one ever because it performed so badly the last few entries. I mean Namco Bandai seems to greatly dislike the Soul series atm, the director had to beg them to make SC6 basically. They totally love Tekken though. I still think it makes him less likely. I would love to be wrong here. I want atleast Heihachi or Nightmare in Smash. One of the few picks I want based on personal preference.

 

[Will]

I sense a dislike for Louie here.

It's not a dislike for Louie. If Louie was an alt and Alph was being presented as an Echo it'd also make me angry. Alph was supposed to be end up being a clone, but he got a fate arguably worse than Chrom. When Smash Ultimate came around, everyone but him got the upgrades. Just makes no sense.

 

[UberMadman]

Yeah, after Dark Samus was shown having animations exactly like Samus, such as her standing and totally not floating postion, it made me rethink if Echoes were a good idea in the first place.
wait a minute

Alright, I phrased that badly, I admit. I think Black Shadow running around at Captain Falcon’s *speed* would look funny, even if you animated it differently. At this point in time, it seems like echo fighters share the exact same mobility stats as the characters they are derived from, so a fast Black Shadow would feel weird to me. Again, take what I say with a grain of salt; I haven’t played much F-Zero.

 

[Will]

Alright, I phrased that badly, I admit. I think Black Shadow running around at Captain Falcon’s *speed* would look funny, even if you animated it differently. At this point in time, it seems like echo fighters share the exact same mobility stats as the characters they are derived from, so a fast Black Shadow would feel weird to me. Again, take what I say with a grain of salt; I haven’t played much F-Zero.

Black Bull is one of the fastest cars in the game. Makes sense to me.
Black Knight is also pretty quick for those who don't think he makes sense as an Ike echo.

 

[DarkFalcon]

It's not a dislike for Louie. If Louie was an alt and Alph was being presented as an Echo it'd also make me angry. Alph was supposed to be end up being a clone, but he got a fate arguably worse than Chrom. When Smash Ultimate came around, everyone but him got the upgrades. Just makes no sense.

Yea but the Koopalings tho.

 

[aarchak]

Alright, I phrased that badly, I admit. I think Black Shadow running around at Captain Falcon’s *speed* would look funny, even if you animated it differently. At this point in time, it seems like echo fighters share the exact same mobility stats as the characters they are derived from, so a fast Black Shadow would feel weird to me. Again, take what I say with a grain of salt; I haven’t played much F-Zero.

Actually, imagining that, it looks ridiculous. It's like if you made Ganondorf go at Falcon's speeds.

 

[Will]

Yea but the Koopalings tho.

Koopalings weren't meant to be 7 clones of Bowser Jr. each, they at least make sense.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Should've probably been more clear there. Referring to Nightmare from Soul Calibur.

Oh, now I feel like an even bigger idiot. Weird, that assist hasn't shown up yet, which is why I assumed it was the character. I'll fix it after some research in post!

 

[DarkFalcon]

Koopalings weren't meant to be 7 clones of Bowser Jr. each, they at least make sense.

Fair enough. Though I'm not entirely sure how Alph would separate himself as an echo. Would he have any animation differences?

 

[Soulsaint]

Alright, I phrased that badly, I admit. I think Black Shadow running around at Captain Falcon’s *speed* would look funny, even if you animated it differently. At this point in time, it seems like echo fighters share the exact same mobility stats as the characters they are derived from, so a fast Black Shadow would feel weird to me. Again, take what I say with a grain of salt; I haven’t played much F-Zero.

Supposedly he has one of the fastest cars, so it wouldn't entirely be out of place. II just want some love for one of the original Smash characters not assoiciated with any other other franchise(like Yoshi is).

 

[Will]

Fair enough. Though I'm not entirely sure how Alph would separate himself as an echo. Would he have any animation differences?

rocky pikminy boys

Other taunts and whatnot could also work, that's basically Richter's gimmick as of now

 

[SirCamp]

There are not a lot of series left that you could argue really need representation anymore though, we're getting close to the point where characters can be added on the sole merit of being cool additions. Like, you could argue DKC and Kirby could use a 4th character, and Xenoblade warrants a 2nd one at this point, but beyond that series representation is largely in a good spot. Some would argue Zelda, but fact remains that it doesn't have any essentials that aren't in yet, even as a fan and someone who's most wanted is Skull Kid at this point I think it's still in a fine spot.

I'm always just grateful for how much content Mother has at all, so I'm not ever going to argue that it needs anything more, but I don't think it'd be blasphemous if it got either an echo or a DLC newcomer (although the latter is highly unlikely due to Mother not exactly being a money maker).

I agree for the most part, which is why I'd rather see a focus on different IPs being repped. I do think DKC needs Dixie to feel complete personally. And I wouldn't be opposed to another Kirby rep, but being that I personally haven't played that series much I don't really have any skin in the game there.

Having said that I would argue the point about Zelda. I really do think that Zelda needs a non-triforce wielding character and to that end I really want either Impa or Tingle (yes I do actually want Tingle).

My other possibly selfish want is that I would like to see Wario Land get some love since Wario doesn't really feel like Wario Land Wario and I do love those games. That one is super unrealistic though. #CaptainSyrup

Otherwise give me Golden Sun. Give me Adance Wars. Give me something retro that we haven't seen yet.

 

[DarkFalcon]

rocky pikminy boys

Other taunts and whatnot could also work, that's basically Richter's gimmick as of now

They're saving Rock Pikmin for the Louie echo even though it makes more sense for Alph.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

So here's a little game.

Disregard how likely you think the characters are.

Tell us how interested or satisfied you'd be with the character if included.

Incineroar
Ken
Isabelle
Geno
Isaac
Monster Hunter
Lloyd Irving
Dixie Kong
Impa
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Bandana Waddle Dee
Ninten
Diskun
Raiden
Big Boss
Shadow
Elma
Rex and Pyra
Jeanne
Spring Man
Wonder Red

Late-ish response, but here you go Swampy.
Incineroar - "Well, it's not Decidueye, but I warmed up to the idea."
Ken - "Can't wait to see what the new Kenface looks like! "
Isabelle - "Oh, neat."
Geno - "The speculation trinity is complete! Congrats to Geno and his fans!"
Isaac - *insert M.Bisonyes.gif*
Monster Hunter - "Eh, not Phoenix Wright, but I like MonHun so I'll take it. Especially with the Rathalos here."
Lloyd - "Oh, Lloyd's here. Neat. Now I've more incentive to play Tales of Symphonia"
Dixie - "What was that about Sakurai hating everything related to Donkey Kong?"
Skull Kid - "All of you are in for a terrible fate, but not me!"
Black Shadow - "...Well that's out of nowhere. We finally got a new F-Zero character, but not a new F-Zero game..."
Ninten - "Really...? He's basically the same design as Ness. I'd even take Porky over Ninten..."
Bandanna Dee - "The Fourth Musketeer is here!"
Diskun - "Eh?"
Raiden - "RULES OF NATURE!!!"
Big Boss - "...Should just be an alt for Snake imo"
Shadow - "Ow the edge. Saw this coming and I'm not too upset at all."
Elma - "Well, it's not Rex and Pyra, but I think she's looking to be a fun character... Now I need to revisit XCX."
Rex and Pyra - "A win for me in getting these two, but I can already hear the flame wars."
Jeanne - "Welp... the competitive scene's gonna hate this..."
Spring Man - "Yes! I always knew ARMS would join the fray at some point!"
Wonder-Red - "One of my wildest dreams has been realised..."

 

[Zinith]

Supposedly he has one of the fastest cars, so it wouldn't entirely be out of place. II just want some love for one of the original Smash characters not assoiciated with any other other franchise(like Yoshi is).

You didn't need to rub dirt in my boi like that...

 

[Deleted member]

So here's a little game.

Disregard how likely you think the characters are.

Tell us how interested or satisfied you'd be with the character if included.

Incineroar
Ken
Isabelle
Geno
Isaac
Monster Hunter
Lloyd Irving
Dixie Kong
Impa
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Bandana Waddle Dee
Ninten
Diskun
Raiden
Big Boss
Shadow
Elma
Rex and Pyra
Jeanne
Spring Man
Wonder Red

And what would be your level of interest with each one of them?

 

[Curious Villager]

The one thing Toon Zelda could've gotten to make her uniquely stand out was robbed from her by Zelda's new down special.

I mean, since most expect her to be a clone/semi clone eitherway for Zelda. Wouldn't that actually be more convenient for her, more than anything?
Eitherway, she'd most likely be handled the same way Toon link was, Replacing all of Zelda's kick moves with magic attacks and being a weaker but faster Zelda.

 

[Michele]

You didn't need to rub dirt in my boi like that...

Oh come on Yoshi, it's not like he wants to pick on you by calling out you...right?

 

[StormC]

We have a limited number of spots left.
There is no value in adding another Mother character.
We have the franchise and the mechanics therein represented just fine.
Anyone likely to find Mother through Smash is already going to find it.
Other fans are already clued in.

Adding more Mother is gratuitious- it does little to add to gameplay, or improve the audience of Mother, and instead just makes people who arent fans already, pissed, because it doesnt need more playable characters (and honestly, its a little selfish to ask*)
*It's fine to want a character, but to state in any way that we are in deficit of Mother material, particularly as playable characters, is flat out selfish.

TL:DR We only have a few characters this game. Let's consider more than what gets our jollies off for an hour.

I agree as a Mother fan (listening to the soundtrack for it right now, heh). I try to be objective about Smash speculation and what makes for the best product. A lot of fans come off as selfish with wanting their specific needs to be catered to (which is fine), and then crying out when they aren't, saying it was an awful choice to not fit their narrow perspective and tastes.

Porky would be cool, sure. He's one of my favorite Nintendo villains. But he's pretty unimportant in the big scheme of things and certainly not the most popular Smash request; I'd rather see fans of other series get their day.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Tbh, I don't really understand why we're so adamant that we even need another Mother character. Like, given the size and relative importance of the series the characters we have now seem pretty fitting to me honestly. I'd personally rather have a wider breadth of series added than double down on the small series already included.

Also as an aside, am I the only one who vastly prefers Lucas?

That's just the thread, at this moment, Do not allow yourself to be fooled into thinking this microchamber is even representational of the standard internet echochambers.

What about Porky though? One he'd fit well into the villains and supposed heroes vs. villains/rivals theme being Ness' as well as playing like Bowser Jr. in his Spider-Bot.

We have no evidence thus far that this game has a heroes v villains theme. And in fact, we havnt had a theme in that type of regard, in any Smash game, so why would we here?

 

[P.Kat]

Tetra would be a ****ing cool new Zelda rep. Get Skull Kid outta here. Tetra is where it's at.

I would love to have Tetra in Smash, she a great newcomer. Anyone disagrees, walks the plank...

yep bet you'll feel pretty silly walking around town with this in your hand for few hours.

After which you will literally walk the plank. Puns can't save you from Davy Jones Locker.

 

[Zinith]

I would love to have Tetra in Smash, she a great newcomer. Anyone disagrees, walks the plank...

View attachment 161569
yep bet you'll feel pretty silly walking around town with this in your hand for few hours.

After which you will literally walk the plank. Puns can't save you from Davy Jones Locker.

I wouldn't mind walking around with Plank to show my love for Ed, Edd 'n Eddy!!!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Actually, imagining that, it looks ridiculous. It's like if you made Ganondorf go at Falcon's speeds.

Hmmmmm... just imagining Ganondorf with Falcon's speed... .. he could reach top ti-

Spoiler

 

[Danpal65]

After which you will literally walk the plank. Puns can't save you from Davy Jones Locker.

You wooden think puns would save you, but they really wood.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I would love to have Tetra in Smash, she a great newcomer. Anyone disagrees, walks the plank...

View attachment 161569
yep bet you'll feel pretty silly walking around town with this in your hand for few hours.

After which you will literally walk the plank. Puns can't save you from Davy Jones Locker.

Considering some of the things Plank "does" in the show I'd be incredibly anxious walking around with him.

 

[Michele]

Wow....I saw this loz18 drama. Feel real bad for him, and now it feels like we are losing our trust in him. Maybe he was right in his reasoning.

 

[Koopaul]

Fair enough. Though I'm not entirely sure how Alph would separate himself as an echo. Would he have any animation differences?

Well as we have seen with a lot of echo fighters, they don't seem to need a lot of differences. Most just have some different properties to their moves. I suppose Alph would use his ship instead of the Dolphin, and maybe he throws the Pikmin at a slightly different angle? It's not much, but echoes don't need much.

 

[pholtos]

So here's a little game.

Disregard how likely you think the characters are.

Tell us how interested or satisfied you'd be with the character if included.

Incineroar
Ken
Isabelle
Geno
Isaac
Monster Hunter
Lloyd Irving
Dixie Kong
Impa
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Bandana Waddle Dee
Ninten
Diskun
Raiden
Big Boss
Shadow
Elma
Rex and Pyra
Jeanne
Spring Man
Wonder Red

Will give comment plus either would not, might not, might or definitely play, and a satisfaction score out of 5.
Naturally these are subjective, fully opinions so don't get angry with me if I say something that seems wrong to you.

Incineroar - Not my choice for pokemon but he does seem like he'd fill a Niche not in Smash. Might not. 2/5
Ken - Don't really care for Ryu but that's fine. Might not. 2/5
Isabelle - Dorb. Yes. Definitely play. 5/5
Geno - Would make a lot of people happy. Might play. 3/5
Isaac - My wish since Brawl, fills a semi-unique niche, that is only shared with Ivysaur and maybe Villager (I think) in Earth/Plant manipulation, along with plenty of other options for moves. Would be curious what direction they took him in. Definitely play. 5/5
Monster Hunter - Wouldn't this character be sorta... generic? I guess it'd be ok if they did not use a sword and used a weapon not currently in smash. Might play. 2/5
Lloyd Irving - This one would be easier to accept if there weren't so many pure swordsman in smash (for pete's sake fire emblem characters, use weapons that aren't swords), although there isn't a character that uses two swords so... eh. Might play. 2/5
Dixie Kong - Would be nice to complete the trinity of major Kongs (sorry Kiddie) from the original SNES games. Might play. 3/5
Impa - I'm assuming this would be themed after Hyrule Warriors in which case, please give her the spear and not the sword. Might play, depending on the weapon. 3/5
Skull Kid - Eh, I have little interest since Majora's Mask is one of the few Zelda's that I am not a fan of, but it'd make a lot of fans happy. Might play depending on what sorta moveset he has. 3/5
Black Shadow - ...Who? Abstaining.
Bandana Waddle Dee - Dorb. Yes. Definitely play. 5/5
Ninten - Would be nice to have the whole trio of main characters from the Mother series to round things out. Might play. 3/5
Diskun - ...Who? Abstaining.
Raiden - That guy who cuts trees in Metal Gear? Neat. Might play. 2/5
Big Boss - This one I'm not so sure about... wait which one? Abstaining.
Shadow - Would be neat if they gave him a teleport and some sorta gun weapon, and animations to match his running style. Might play. 4/5
Elma - ...Who? Abstaining.
Rex and Pyra - Have not touched any Xenoblade game, have no opinion. Abstaining.
Jeanne - ...Who? Abstaining.
Spring Man - Long range punchy punch. Neat. Might play. 1/5
Wonder Red - ...Who? Abstaining.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Tetra would be a ****ing cool new Zelda rep. Get Skull Kid outta here. Tetra is where it's at.

I would love to have Tetra in Smash, she a great newcomer. Anyone disagrees, walks the plank...

View attachment 161569
yep bet you'll feel pretty silly walking around town with this in your hand for few hours.

After which you will literally walk the plank. Puns can't save you from Davy Jones Locker.

This might have a mixed response, given my controversial feelings about certain veterans, but *if* we were to remove obvious clones/alt characters, some could be alts, some could be transformations (Zelda/Sheik, Samus/Zero Suit) but others could be replaced by (in my opinion) more interesting characters. For me, Young Link replaced with Skull Kid, and Toon Link replaced with Tetra. Add in Skyward Sword Impa, and I believe all the major Zelda titles are still represented, without any series doubling up.

Here's a roster I made, trying to come up with the "perfect" roster, including fan favorites, though there are still some odd choices I made to fit within my arbitrary rules of how each row would be set up.

Also, I should clarify, despite my feelings concerning certain veterans, I'm glad every character is returning, as it's the most ideal scenario for everyone. It's all my personal opinion, of course.

EDIT:
(some other notes I should add: I made this roster a while ago, and have made some changes since. Namely, replacing Blaze with Robotnik, and switching Inkling/Spring Man's places, adding Twintelle, removing Octoling).

Yeah that roster looks completely perfect to me. Honestly the weirdest pick out of them all is tyranitar, and that’s still a cool Pokemon

Thanks. And Tyranitar looks off for a Smash character to me, as well, though the goal was adding one Pokemon for each generation, each one being unique element-wise. So we have electric, fairy, psychic, water/grass/fire, rock, fire, fighting, dark, water, grass. It's constantly a work in progress, as there's no "perfect" roster (other than adding B&K, and then it's perfect to meeee).

 

[UberMadman]

Wow....I saw this loz18 drama. Feel real bad for him, and now it feels like we are losing our trust in him. Maybe he was right in his reasoning.

Other than “he said Skull Kid might actually be a boss”, I missed all of it. Is it okay if I ask what happened?

 

[Zathura]

This might have a mixed response, given my controversial feelings about certain veterans, but *if* we were to remove obvious clones/alt characters, some could be alts, some could be transformations (Zelda/Sheik, Samus/Zero Suit) but others could be replaced by (in my opinion) more interesting characters. For me, Young Link replaced with Skull Kid, and Toon Link replaced with Tetra. Add in Skyward Sword Impa, and I believe all the major Zelda titles are still represented, without any series doubling up.

Here's a roster I made, trying to come up with the "perfect" roster, including fan favorites, though there are still some odd choices I made to fit within my arbitrary rules of how each row would be set up.

Also, I should clarify, despite my feelings concerning certain veterans, I'm glad every character is returning, as it's the most ideal scenario for everyone. It's all my personal opinion, of course.

Yeah that roster looks completely perfect to me. Honestly the weirdest pick out of them all is tyranitar, and that’s still a cool Pokemon

 

[Michele]

Other than “he said Skull Kid might actually be a boss”, I missed all of it. Is it okay if I ask what happened?

Ahem, I'll teach you, Junior Bowser!

So basically, someone was in Loz18's private discord server and and he joined for a good 10 days. Then someone leaked about Loz18 on Gamefaqs, and he, SmashBurb, got kicked due to this.

Because of this kick, SmashBurb decided to expose Loz18 by posting an long video of his chat history.

 

[P.Kat]

Considering some of the things Plank "does" in the show I'd be incredibly anxious walking around with him.

Somewhat reminds me of this joke

Thoughts if these characters make the cut?

-Agumon
-Amaterasu
-Ayumi Tachibana
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Black Knight(E)
-Chorus Kids
-Cranky Kong
-Crash Bandicoot
-Decidueye
-Gardevoir
-Glass Joe(E)
-Hades
-Heihachi Mishima
-Kat & Ana
-Karate Joe
-King Boo
-King Hippo
-Medusa(E)
-Metal Sonic(E)
-Mona
-Nightmare
-Octoling(E)
-Paper Mario
-Phosphora
-Porky Minch
-Rayman
-Saki Amamiya
-Shantae
-Sylux
-Toon Zelda

(E) means Echo Fighter

Keeping my thoughts short cause I'm losing steam. Don't even know how or why I'm up this late it's 4:40 am over her where I'm at.
-Agumon - Extremely happy Digimon vs Pokémon
-Amaterasu - EXTREME JOY AND JUBILATION!!! S-someone other than me, actually thought of putting Ammy in a list of fighters I-I need a moment T_T.
-Ayumi Tachibana - happy? I don't know much about her but I wouldn't mind.
-Banjo-Kazooie - happy
-Black Knight(E) - No offense but I rather unique FE no more echoes, even if he wasn't, he'll still get a meh from me, heavyweight fighters aren't my style. -Chorus Kids - okay but rather Rhythm Girl
-Cranky Kong - meh
-Crash Bandicoot - happy, but would rather Spyro.
-Decidueye - happy
-Gardevoir - extremely happy
-Glass Joe(E) - meh
-Hades - happy
-Heihachi Mishima - happy, but rather Jin, or Ling Xiaoyu.
-Kat & Ana - happy
-Karate Joe - meh
-King Boo - meh
-King Hippo - meh
-Medusa(E) - meh
-Metal Sonic(E) - meh, would rather Shadow.
-Mona - happy
-Nightmare - extremely happy cause Soul Calibur rep, but conflicted due to his slow, heavy playstyle, would rather Talim, Taki, or Mitsurugi
-Octoling(E) - happy
-Paper Mario - happy, my friend always kicks my but with Mario, it'd be cool to return the favor with Paper Mario
-Phosphora - extremely happy, despite not having much of a role in KI, she's the KI newcomer I want the most.
-Porky Minh - meh
-Rayman - Extremely happy, good memories were had with this dude
-Saki Amamiya - extremely happy, Gunblade character when?
-Shantae - extremely happy CAUSE I CAN DANCE THROUGH THE DANGER.
-Sylux - meh
-Toon Zelda - happy