Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kirbyfan391]

just a small thing, I thought it was weird they brought back Mushroom Kingdom from N64 and not Melee, mostly because of one thing: they'd have to make pipe entering(and leaving) animations for every character just for this one stage whereas they could just bypass that by going with the Melee one.

i speculate it might be because they will go with a more SSE-style adventure mode after all and probably feature pipes, else seems like a waste and weird choice to have this for only one stage which was never brought back before, especially when there's an obvious alternative.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Regardless of whether this guy actually knows anything or not this does sound rather plausible tbh, they always start out revealing big guns, and then gradually we get more and more characters that don't top polls, which is why people always end up being disappointed in the end, they expect Mega Mans and Warios from start to finish but it ends by being rounded up by Duck Hunts and R.O.Bs. Of course there are outliers, Sonic because of his late addition, and Dedede followed him shortly after, but it's more a point about how we get more and more characters who might be considered B and C tiers in terms of hype over time.

This is why I think the general consensus on who's likely will change with the next reveal, it's not gonna be all Ridley and K. Rool style newcomers from here on out, maybe one or two more thanks to the ballot, but I fully expect people to frantically go back to the drawing board more than once in between now and release.

Ultimate a different beast though, especially since we didn't get a //-style curveball character as one of the E3 reveals like we always had for every game starting with Melee. Since every unique newcomer character we got so far for this game have been huge hype-bringers for the fanbase,we're not getting a or -type newcomer since the only reason to predict these type of characters for Ultimate is due to patterns. A Gen 7 Pokemon is definitely still happening though, since Pokemon is always a crowd pleaser.

 

[CosmicQuark]

One character I'm frequently surprised that people older than the NES generation know is "that dog from Duck Hunt" I guess he was all over the adverting back in the day.

When I was a kid playing my dad's (over 60) NES, Mario/Duck Hunt was a combo. So my guess is that's why a lot of the older generation know Duck Hunt. I know as a kid I was always like "Why is that stupid hunting game on the same thing as Mario?" Never played it as we didn't have a Zapper. Always felt odd to me, in so many ways.

Also, I couldn't begin to guess what characters he knows since all he's mentioned is and I guess . EDIT: Oh, and

 

[IronTed]

I think there's a definite generation gap thing going on with people not knowing Duck Hunt. It was a household name. It just didn't get followed up on so no one talks about it any more.

True, and unless I'm forgetting something, the game was never re-released. At least, not in a significant way.

 

[AzureFlame4]

I've personally been a Paper Mario supporter since the Brawl days. That's part of the reason I would be supportive of Geno if he got in because it would at least give some representation for all of the Mario RPGs.

 

[Noipoi]

I think there's a definite generation gap thing going on with people not knowing Duck Hunt. It was a household name. It just didn't get followed up on so no one talks about it any more.

Duck Hunt is only known by the kids of today from their parents telling stories about how much they wanted to kill that damn dog.

 

[LetterO]

True, and unless I'm forgetting something, the game was never re-released. At least, not in a significant way.

Duck Hunt's SSB4 trailer also announced that Duck Hunt was coming to VC.

 

[SonicMario]

True, and unless I'm forgetting something, the game was never re-released. At least, not in a significant way.

There was the Wii U virtual console release that even had it so you can use a wii remote as the zapper (And there was a cameo by the ducks in the shooting minigame on Wii Play) but otherwise yeah that's it.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Wow...it's been 60 pages since I've last been here....and I was last here yesterday morning lol.

Anyways, got a question for you all. What were some things you thought would/wouldn't happen, but then actually ended up happening?

For me, I believed that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Konami considering what happened with the Metal Gear franchise and them not focusing on the video game market anymore. Oh, how times have changed .

Thought we'd get cuts, maybe even a fair share of them, obviously (and thankfully) didn't turn out that way.

Gave Ridley a 1% chance on Rate Their Chances, thank god it didn't pan out that way.

Really thought Waluigi was the Mario frontrunner, but he died immediately. Didn't really care for him, just thought he might have done really well on the ballot.

Never thought we'd see Pokémon Trainer back, obviously the 3DS played its part in transformations being removed, but I thought it might have been something Sakurai would have done anyways.

 

[StormC]

Regardless of whether this guy actually knows anything or not this does sound rather plausible tbh, they always start out revealing big guns, and then gradually we get more and more characters that don't top polls, which is why people always end up being disappointed in the end, they expect Mega Mans and Warios from start to finish but it ends by being rounded up by Duck Hunts and R.O.Bs. Of course there are outliers, Sonic because of his late addition, and Dedede followed him shortly after, but it's more a point about how we get more and more characters who might be considered B and C tiers in terms of hype over time.

This is why I think the general consensus on who's likely will change with the next reveal, it's not gonna be all Ridley and K. Rool style newcomers from here on out, maybe one or two more thanks to the ballot, but I fully expect people to frantically go back to the drawing board more than once in between now and release.

I think the lack of secret characters might change this though. They can look at the handful of newcomers they have and decide how and when to announce them best to space out the hype. So it isn't like they (in theory) drop Olimar or Shulk and go "okay, see you in the unlockables!"

It won't be all K. Rool/Ridley but the four newcomers we have set a serious precedent. I don't think the last reveal has to be the biggest and most shocking, just something interesting and attention-getting to end the marketing on a good note. So far the marketing for this game blows Smash 4's out of the water.

 

[Enchess]

You know, to add extra perspective for the youngins, here is every video game that sold better than Duck Hunt. Ever.

Tetris, Minecraft, GTA V, Wii Sports, Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (genuinely surprised), Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, Pokemon R&B, New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Skyrim

Duck Hunt sold better than most Marios, every Zelda, all but one Pokemon, most Mario Karts, all the Mario Sports games, every DK, every Metroid, every Kid Icarus, every Mother, every Xenoblade, every...

You get the point. Duck Hunt is probably more widely recognized than we can imagine.

Reference:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Wow...it's been 60 pages since I've last been here....and I was last here yesterday morning lol.

Anyways, got a question for you all. What were some things you thought would/wouldn't happen, but then actually ended up happening?

For me, I believed that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Konami considering what happened with the Metal Gear franchise and them not focusing on the video game market anymore. Oh, how times have changed .

I never thought I'd see every veteran return. That honestly hypes me up more than any newcomer aside from maybe

 

[AzureFlame4]

I think the lack of secret characters might change this though. They can look at the handful of newcomers they have and decide how and when to announce them best to space out the hype. So it isn't like they (in theory) drop Olimar or Shulk and go "okay, see you in the unlockables!"

It won't be all K. Rool/Ridley but the four newcomers we have set a serious precedent. I don't think the last reveal has to be the biggest and most shocking, just something interesting and attention-getting to end the marketing on a good note. So far the marketing for this game blows Smash 4's out of the water.

It's sad being one of the few out there that was hyped for Olimar.

 

[Arcadenik]

Nope. I did too, and pretty sure you were the only one who said something about him being a good choice. It’s funny because he was one of the only newcomers I got right.

SSB4 newcomers I got right:


I am surprised I even got Villager's name right years before he was revealed. I thought he would be either "Villager" or "Animal Crosser".

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not going to say it's impossible but I find it very unlikely based on what we know about how Sakurai has approached third parties in the past.

A scantily-clad magical female warrior with strong gaming ties to Nintendo but minimal recognition as a series... I guess Shantae is a shoo-in

 

[NintenZ]

I feel like Shantae has kind of a decent chance to be honest as an indie character, maybe not the best chance as a third party, but if we’re going off of the Ballot a lot of support was raised for her and Sakurai has been in contact with the devs before so I don’t think it should be written out entirely, I just don’t know if I realistically see it right now, who knows though, Sakurai surprised us with Bayonetta so maybe he’ll do it again?

 

[Noipoi]

You know, to add extra perspective for the youngins, here is every video game that sold better than Duck Hunt. Ever.

Tetris, Minecraft, GTA V, Wii Sports, Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (genuinely surprised), Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, Pokemon R&B, New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Skyrim

Duck Hunt sold better than most Marios, every Zelda, all but one Pokemon, most Mario Karts, all the Mario Sports games, every DK, every Metroid, every Kid Icarus, every Mother, every Xenoblade, every...

You get the point. Duck Hunt is probably more widely recognized than we can imagine.

Reference:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

So when can we expect New Super Duck Hunt U?

Spoiler

Probably at the same time Mother 3 gets a western release

 

[IGuessItsOver]

You know, to add extra perspective for the youngins, here is every video game that sold better than Duck Hunt. Ever.

Tetris, Minecraft, GTA V, Wii Sports, Player Unknown: Battlegrounds (genuinely surprised), Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, Pokemon R&B, New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Skyrim

Duck Hunt sold better than most Marios, every Zelda, all but one Pokemon, most Mario Karts, all the Mario Sports games, every DK, every Metroid, every Kid Icarus, every Mother, every Xenoblade, every...

You get the point. Duck Hunt is probably more widely recognized than we can imagine.

Reference:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

It sold well because it was bundled with the NES tho, so doesn't really count

 

[StormC]

It's sad being one of the few out there that was hyped for Olimar.

Olimar was a great addition, he just didn't really set the world on fire. Certainly not like the two characters before him:

 

[Pakky]

A scantily-clad magical female warrior with strong gaming ties to Nintendo but minimal recognition as a series... I guess Shantae is a shoo-in

Oh, wait did I miss the joke?

 

[Luigi The President]

I feel like Shantae has kind of a decent chance to be honest as an indie character, maybe not the best chance as a third party, but if we’re going off of the Ballot a lot of support was raised for her and Sakurai has been in contact with the devs before so I don’t think it should be written out entirely, I just don’t know if I realistically see it right now, who knows though, Sakurai surprised us with Bayonetta so maybe he’ll do it again?

Remember the other indie who got probably just as much, if not more, support than Shantae, and how he's doing.

 

[Iridium]

It's sad being one of the few out there that was hyped for Olimar.

Were you hyped for Alph?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It sold well because it was bundled with the NES tho, so doesn't really count

No, that's just called smart marketing

 

[Enchess]

It sold well because it was bundled with the NES tho, so doesn't really count

Oh definitely that's why. But that doesn't change that 28 million people out there had a copy and would likely recognize him. Duck Hunt wasn't a great game (imo), it just sure as hell wasn't obscure. The reason why it's known is irrelevant to my point.

 

[NintenZ]

Remember the other indie who got probably just as much, if not more, support than Shantae, and how he's doing.

Think about it this way, what if they considered both but one won out in the end?

Just a potential scenario to consider, but who honestly knows?

 

[StormC]

No matter how you look at it, Bayonetta was chosen under very specific circumstances that I'm not sure are easily repeatable. Castlevania and Simon Belmont fit Sakurai's typical third party criteria much more.

Here's what Sakurai had to say after Cloud was added:

Sakurai: Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Bayonetta is also probably more of a Nintendo character in the eyes of a lot of people nowadays, but that's just my own speculation.

 

[Arcadenik]

It sold well because it was bundled with the NES tho, so doesn't really count

It does count when Sakurai used that as a reason why he added Duck Hunt to the roster.

 

[Will]

I've always had the idea that NES games could be reimagined into an extended modern remaster. Not in like a full-fledged 60 buckaroo game, but like a big enough 20 buck game that had enough content and whatnot.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I understand this is pure speculation on my end but what if Sakurai was aware that Shovel Knight was gonna get his own platform fighter, so he picked a different indie character so he wouldn't steal their thunder.

 

[Iridium]

https://smash.gg/tournament/smashadelphia-ultimate/details

It seems like almost all of the competitive possibilities will be shown here. And it's only 2 days after the game comes out.

 

[Scicky]

It sold well because it was bundled with the NES tho, so doesn't really count

Of course it still counts. If people owned the game, they recognise the dog. Duck Hunt Dog might not be the most popular character (in fact, they're probably in the running for least popular) but whether people bought the game by choice or as a bundle, Duck Hunt still has recognition.

 

[NintenZ]

The two indie characters were really close in the Ballot, so I think it’s entirely possible that one won out in the end because Sakurai saw more in one or the other, either that or they both got some sort of consolation prizes for doing so well in the Ballot despite being smaller franchises.

Honestly it could go either way at this point, we still have a few months till we find out everything.

 

[Will]

https://smash.gg/tournament/smashadelphia-ultimate/details

It seems like almost all of the competitive possibilities will be shown here. And it's only 2 days after the game comes out.

Who in their right mind would only have one day to train?
Like even if you got the game a little early from the preorder, it's gonna take at least half an hour just to sit through all of the amiibo unlocks, or even worse if they don't have any amiibo at all.

 

[T-Hell]

Gosh, I feel really bored when it comes to Smash speculation, even after these couple of days full of fake image leaks. The next Direct announcement couldn't come any sooner..

 

[Arcadenik]

Olimar was a great addition, he just didn't really set the world on fire. Certainly not like the two characters before him:

I definitely hyped when I first saw Olimar on the Brawl Dojo.

But like the unapologetic genwunner that I am, Pokémon Trainer got me hyped that I preordered the game on the day he was revealed.

 

[Arcanir]

Ultimate a different beast though, especially since we didn't get a //-style curveball character as one of the E3 reveals like we always had for every game starting with Melee. Since every unique newcomer character we got so far for this game have been huge hype-bringers for the fanbase,we're not getting a or -type newcomer since the only reason to predict these type of characters for Ultimate is due to patterns. A Gen 7 Pokemon is definitely still happening though, since Pokemon is always a crowd pleaser.

By that logic, we shouldn't have gotten a third party since Brawl's initial E3 had Snake, we got Mega Man and Pac-Man for base!Smash 4's, and Ryu for DLC, yet we still got Simon Belmont along with Richter two months after that fact. Just because one wasn't revealed at the time doesn't mean it isn't in the game period, it just means it didn't follow the previous trend.

Regardless, just because we haven't gotten a WFT type character yet doesn't mean that we won't get any non-Pokemon characters that are exclusively crowd pleasers. Sakurai did say he is referring to the ballot, but it doesn't mean he's exclusively using it and he's added a mixture of popular and relevant/unique picks before. Melee for instance had characters like the aforementioned IC thrown in with examples like Mewtwo, and Melee also had a poll that Sakurai did refer to as well. Similarly, we have had popular newcomers get followed by ones much less so, even ignoring cases like Duck Hunt and ROB. Pac-Man for instance were followed by Robin, Lucina, and Shulk before the release of Smash 3DS, who are much more lowkey in their history, popularity, and importance then him, that can easily happen here.

In short, just because that trend wasn't carried doesn't mean non-crowd pleasers are off the table, it just means that trend isn't a trend anymore. Additionally, just because we haven't gotten any non-crowd pleasers doesn't mean they don't exist, Sakurai has added his share of oddballs and nothing says they aren't in the game aside from fan-derived theories. Jumping to an extremist thought is the best way to get yourself blinded as we have in all of the past games, it's always good to keep an open mind to other options that are viable.

 

[Noipoi]

Gosh, I feel really bored when it comes to Smash speculation, even after these couple of days full of fake image leaks. The next Direct announcement couldn't come any sooner..

The best part of knowing everyone is here is knowing everyone is here.
the worst part is we have to wait for Directs to get any smidgen of info.

It doesn't help that the blog doesn't show any minor new things, like items or stages.

 

[StormC]

Gosh, I feel really bored when it comes to Smash speculation, even after these couple of days full of fake image leaks. The next Direct announcement couldn't come any sooner..

Knowing my luck it's gonna be announced for Rosh Hashanah and I'll have to spend all day waiting for services to end to watch the damn thing.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The common man? Maybe not all of them, but not having worldwide popularity does not make you obscure.

Most gamers would probably know Cloud. As well as anyone who grew up with a PS1, which was quite a sizeable number of people. He is the poster boy of his genre. A lesser known genre to the general public, sure, but still the poster boy. If the term "JRPG" or hell, even anime a lot of the time comes up, Cloud does come to mind for many.

For me: RPGs are one of the quintessential gaming genres.
Final Fantasy is the epitome of an RPG.
Cloud is the character of Final Fantasy.

I would love for this to be applied to other genres: and thats why I want Jill Valentine.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Gosh, I feel really bored when it comes to Smash speculation, even after these couple of days full of fake image leaks. The next Direct announcement couldn't come any sooner..

Same, though I'm not holding my breath. After Ridley and K Rool, I expect a general Nintendo Direct to not tell us much, and probably won't have any surprises. Unless it winds up as unpredictable as the Aug Direct.

Unless you meant the next Smash Direct, in which case the wait'll be even longer.