Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[mynameisBlade]

As obscure as Geno is, I think its happening this time. I can feel it. After K. Rool, anything is possible....except Goku.

 

[Idon]

I guess Travis Touchdown is indie and he's.....decently requested.

But he just rubs me the wrong way about being in Smash Brothers since SOOOOO much of his identity as a character is taken from other creator's content.

Travis and No More Heroes is definitely not Indie. They were deveoped by grasshopper and had Ubisoft publishing.

And his identity is completely fleshed out in the first game. I don't know what you mean by "other creator's content."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One character I'm frequently surprised that people older than the NES generation know is "that dog from Duck Hunt" I guess he was all over the adverting back in the day.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That too is an assumption to be fair. A good one, based on the costume though.
Guess people wouldn't need to research to know who Geno is hur hur hur.

I mean that small text point is neither here nor there.

There's other things that point towards Geno. Every other major Mario request save Paper Mario has been addressed some way. Daisy is an echo, Waluigi's an assist trophy, Toad's presence in Peach's moveset was increased, Captain Toad is on a stage.

It really is only Geno or no other Mario newcomer other than Daisy at this point. Especially when there's likely to be a very minimal chance of Paper Mario.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean that small text point is neither here nor there.

There's other things that point towards Geno. Every other major Mario request save Paper Mario has been addressed some way. Daisy is an echo, Waluigi's an assist trophy, Toad's presence in Peach's moveset was increased, Captain Toad is on a stage.

It really is only Geno or no other Mario newcomer other than Daisy at this point. Especially when there's likely to be a very minimal chance of Paper Mario.

Please explain to me why there's such a minimal chance? Not trying to sound rude, just so very tired.

 

[StormC]

I knew Luigi The President would respond to that post but I didn't think it would be within five seconds.

 

[Luigi The President]

I knew Luigi The President would respond to that post but I didn't think it would be within five seconds.

I'm like a demon summoned by the words "Paper Mario", basically

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean that small text point is neither here nor there.

There's other things that point towards Geno. Every other major Mario request save Paper Mario has been addressed some way. Daisy is an echo, Waluigi's an assist trophy, Toad's presence in Peach's moveset was increased, Captain Toad is on a stage.

It really is only Geno or no other Mario newcomer other than Daisy at this point. Especially when there's likely to be a very minimal chance of Paper Mario.

Which is ironic, as Paper Mario isn't 3rd party.

But yeah, I'm not sure he's much on the radar. I don't remember him having a huge amount of requests either, or being acknowledged by Sakurai at all(all we got was a stage). Captain Toad is a breakout character from Galaxy, and a big gun in that sense. Rest were majorly wanted in some way.

I think he's a contender, but he's a sleeper pick right now.

 

[Enchess]

One character I'm frequently surprised that people older than the NES generation know is "that dog from Duck Hunt" I guess he was all over the adverting back in the day.

I'm only 24, and I knew a lot of people who owned Duck Hunt growing up. Heck, my grandparents owned it. It was one of like 5 games they bought so grandkids could have things to do when visiting.

And the big thing: it was packaged with Mario. Soooooo many people who got Mario on NES got Duck Hunt packaged in. And Mario was popular, obviously.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Travis and No More Heroes is definitely not Indie. They were deveoped by grasshopper and had Ubisoft publishing.

And his identity is completely fleshed out in the first game. I don't know what you mean by "other creator's content."

Grasshopper since is no longer tied with Ubisoft and on their own. Their not really a major company either. But then I don't know much about them outside of No More Heroes.

He's based on tons of anime, Spaceballs, Fight Club, god, just about EVERYTHING weeb and a little bit of popular Western cinema thrown in.

His identity is soooooooo tied up in the work of other artists that he barely resembles an original creation to me. Because it was as if they just said ''What was cool in X? Let's make it a part of Travis."

They're not horrible games, but he just is a really really really big mish mash of things the devs found cool elsewhere. All the characters in Smash Brothers have their own unique identity without origins of that nature.

 

[Noipoi]

I knew Luigi The President would respond to that post but I didn't think it would be within five seconds.

It's like clockwork.
or the sun rising, you can always count on it.

 

[StormC]

Grasshopper since is no longer tied with Ubisoft and on their own. Their not really a major company either. But then I don't know much about them outside of No More Heroes.

He's based on tons of anime, Spaceballs, Fight Club, god, just about EVERYTHING weeb and a little bit of popular Western cinema thrown in.

His identity is soooooooo tied up in the work of other artists that he barely resembles an original creation to me. Because it was as if they just said ''What was cool in X? Let's make it a part of Travis."

They're not horrible games, but he just is a really really really big mish mash of things the devs found cool elsewhere. All the characters in Smash Brothers have their own unique identity without origins of that nature.

I mean, Solid Snake takes his name from Snake Plissken and his modern character design was based on Christopher Walken and Claude Van Damme.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Please explain to me why there's such a minimal chance? Not trying to sound rude, just so very tired.

There's not a single thing that screams ''PAPER MARIO" save stages.

He also certainly was kind of drowned out by Daisy, Waluigi, and Geno supporters in the ballot era much like Toad was.

It's not a knock against him as I believe he's worthy of Smash. I just think he's very very very unlikely for Ultimate.

I mean, Solid Snake takes his name from Snake Plissen and his modern character design was based on Christopher Walken and Claude Van Damme.

True, but that's about it for him. I like Travis, but too much of him is directly ripped from the works of others to the point it goes beyond homage.

 

[Pakky]

Grasshopper since is no longer tied with Ubisoft and on their own. Their not really a major company either. But then I don't know much about them outside of No More Heroes.

He's based on tons of anime, Spaceballs, Fight Club, god, just about EVERYTHING weeb and a little bit of popular Western cinema thrown in.

His identity is soooooooo tied up in the work of other artists that he barely resembles an original creation to me. Because it was as if they just said ''What was cool in X? Let's make it a part of Travis."

They're not horrible games, but he just is a really really really big mish mash of things the devs found cool elsewhere. All the characters in Smash Brothers have their own unique identity without origins of that nature.

-Is Snake Plissken
- Is Rocky

Things usually are a mish-mash of stuff people find cool and then that develops its own identity over time.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Paper Mario? Why would we need a 3rd Mario, and Shovel Knight? pfft more like Shovelware Knight
Just a prank bro

 

[Luigi The President]

Which is ironic, as Paper Mario isn't 3rd party.

But yeah, I'm not sure he's much on the radar. I don't remember him having a huge amount of requests either, or being acknowledged by Sakurai at all(all we got was a stage). Captain Toad is a breakout character from Galaxy, and a big gun in that sense. Rest were majorly wanted in some way.

I think he's a contender, but he's a sleeper pick right now.

The thing about this IMO is that I feel saying Paper Mario didn't get a huge amount of requests is a bit mistaken?
Take a look at this poll. Well, compilation of polls.

When people say their character "was a Ballot frontrunner", this is what they are likely referring to, and they probably aren't too mistaken.
If you'd like I can find you more polls with him on there that are decently sized but I'm sure you've seen them because you've been around so long!

You probably know better than me, but I think he very much may be on the radar. However, it's a big may.

He's definitely a sleeper pick in 2018. But in 2015? He was kinda a big deal.

There's not a single thing that screams ''PAPER MARIO" save stages.

He also certainly was kind of drowned out by Daisy, Waluigi, and Geno supporters in the ballot era much like Toad was.

It's not a knock against him as I believe he's worthy of Smash. I just think he's very very very unlikely for Ultimate.



True, but that's about it for him. I like Travis, but too much of him is directly ripped from the works of others to the point it goes beyond homage.

Take a look at my above poll. In this 44k+ vote compilation, he beat out Daisy, Waluigi, AND Geno.
The stage screaming "PAPER MARIO" is more than what most of the "frontliners" got going for them from what I've seen.

Hope this doesn't sound rude, just want to share my own opinion about it since I want him quite a bit.

 

[WertQuadNine]

True, but that's about it for him. I like Travis, but too much of him is directly ripped from the works of others to the point it goes beyond homage.

I, unfortunately, agree with you. Paper Mario really feels like a character that should have been in Smash by now and we have no clues telling us it's gonna be any different this time.

edit: I screwed up, I tried to quote the part where you talked about Paper Mario lol whoops.

 

[Jgt044]

Wow...it's been 60 pages since I've last been here....and I was last here yesterday morning lol.

Anyways, got a question for you all. What were some things you thought would/wouldn't happen, but then actually ended up happening?

For me, I believed that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Konami considering what happened with the Metal Gear franchise and them not focusing on the video game market anymore. Oh, how times have changed .

 

[IronTed]

One character I'm frequently surprised that people older than the NES generation know is "that dog from Duck Hunt" I guess he was all over the adverting back in the day.

Duck Hunt was heavily bundled and is the second best selling NES game by a large margin. In terms of home or handheld console games from that century, only Super Mario Bros, Tetris (Game Boy version) and Pokemon RGB outsold it.

It also helps to be infamous, and the Duck Hunt Dog is certainly that.

 

[Luigi The President]

I, unfortunately, agree with you. Paper Mario really feels like a character that should have been in Smash by now and we have no clues telling us it's gonna be any different this time.

You're telling me. Often, when I bring him up to people, they go "he should've been in by Brawl".
And I couldn't agree more. Seriously.
Very few first party series of his caliber have gone without a character rep.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Wow...it's been 60 pages since I've last been here....and I was last here yesterday morning lol.

Anyways, got a question for you all. What were some things you thought would/wouldn't happen, but then actually ended up happening?

For me, I believed that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Konami considering what happened with the Metal Gear franchise and them not focusing on the video game market anymore. Oh, how times have changed .

No one expected anything from Konami after the Kojima scandal tbh

 

[mynameisBlade]

The thing about this IMO is that I feel saying Paper Mario didn't get a huge amount of requests is a bit mistaken?
Take a look at this poll. Well, compilation of polls.
When people say their character "was a Ballot frontrunner", this is what they are likely referring to, and they probably aren't too mistaken.
If you'd like I can find you more polls with him on there that are decently sized but I'm sure you've seen them because you've been around so long!

You probably know better than me, but I think he very much may be on the radar. However, it's a big may.

He's definitely a sleeper pick in 2018. But in 2015? He was kinda a big deal.


Take a look at my above poll. In this 44k+ vote compilation, he beat out Daisy, Waluigi, AND Geno.
The stage screaming "PAPER MARIO" is more than what most of the "frontliners" got going for them from what I've seen.

Hope this doesn't sound rude, just want to share my own opinion about it since I want him quite a bit.

Paper Mario has always sounded like a great character for Smash! We have 3 different Samus and Link fighters now, so why not 3 versions of Mario. Paper Mario and Mr. Game & Watch could be best buds.

 

[Arcadenik]

One character I'm frequently surprised that people older than the NES generation know is "that dog from Duck Hunt" I guess he was all over the adverting back in the day.

"All over the advertising back in the day"

Because Duck Hunt was bundled with the NES and Super Mario Bros. "People older than the NES" were bound to notice that second game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People really really really really really gotta stop using that poll to mean anything.

 

[Idon]

Grasshopper since is no longer tied with Ubisoft and on their own. Their not really a major company either. But then I don't know much about them outside of No More Heroes.

He's based on tons of anime, Spaceballs, Fight Club, god, just about EVERYTHING weeb and a little bit of popular Western cinema thrown in.

His identity is soooooooo tied up in the work of other artists that he barely resembles an original creation to me. Because it was as if they just said ''What was cool in X? Let's make it a part of Travis."

They're not horrible games, but he just is a really really really big mish mash of things the devs found cool elsewhere. All the characters in Smash Brothers have their own unique identity without origins of that nature.

Nah, there's certainly references to them all, but Travis is by and large, his own thing:

A complete and total loser with a laser sword. Travis watches all those animes and he tries to emulate that and he fails. Hard. It's part parody and part satire.
He's a dumb-ass dirtbag in a world of scum, tying in with the whole "No More Heroes" name.

Plus, plenty Smash characters take some clear inspiration.
Ike is clearly Guts from Berserk. Simon is Conan the Barbarian. You could probably go on.

 

[StormC]

I love that this one chart with 40k votes is like our go to now for Smash ballot speculation.

I mean I'm just as guilty. It's a nice little resource. But now characters live or die by it. Some of it is pretty informative; Simon seems to have done way better than I initially perceived.

I personally believe with K. Rool's inclusion, fan polls should be taken with a grain of salt, but not completely discarded either. Look for trends. K. Rool was top 5 in basically every poll, Banjo, Isaac, Inkling were usually top 10, Wolf, Snake... after that it gets murky.

 

[Luigi The President]

People really really really really really gotta stop using that poll to mean anything.

I'm not sure as to why you say that. 44K votes seems like a decent aggregation. I'm sure I'm wrong, though. (genuinely, I'm not too enlightened I suppose)
If you'd like I can find you other polls where PM places fairly high.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Fan ran polls can be skewed.

That is all.

You can make anything seem loud and popular if you push it enough in a fan poll.

 

[Slavic]

Since my parents' list were so long, I wanna take some steps back further in my family and give those a think.

Grandma:


Great Grandma:


I don't have little write-ups for these because I'm not quite as close to my extended family as my nuclear one, but Animal Crossing has been enormous for generations of my family

 

[Blue7113]

My parents know:

 

[Espio264]

I supported Duck Hunt Dog for Smash from 2002 to 2014. 12 years.

When I first joined SmashBoards in 2009, I was probably the only one who put Duck Hunt Dog on my Smash 4 roster.

Nope. I did too, and pretty sure you were the only one who said something about him being a good choice. It’s funny because he was one of the only newcomers I got right.

 

[Luigi The President]

Fan ran polls can be skewed.

That is all.

You can make anything seem loud and popular if you push it enough in a fan poll.

I can understand this POV. But I do think some patterns of wanted characters have been spread pretty consistently through the Ballot polls.

 

[Jgt044]

No one expected anything from Konami after the Kojima scandal tbh

Yeah pretty much. It wasn't until Vergeben came in that I started to kinda imagine that Snake MAY be in, but even then, I was pretty hesitant to publically state it out loud lol.

 

[Enchess]

Duck Hunt was heavily bundled and is the second best selling NES game by a large margin. In terms of home or handheld console games from that century, only Super Mario Bros, Tetris (Game Boy version) and Pokemon RGB outsold it.

It also helps to be infamous, and the Duck Hunt Dog is certainly that.

I think there's a definite generation gap thing going on with people not knowing Duck Hunt. It was a household name. It just didn't get followed up on so no one talks about it any more.

 

[Wyoming]

My parents know:

Curious...how do they know Dark Pit but not Pit? Already a Kid Icarus character sticks out here but this one in particular?

 

[Pakky]

Nah, there's certainly references to them all, but Travis is by and large, his own thing:

A complete and total loser with a laser sword. Travis watches all those animes and he tries to emulate that and he fails. Hard. It's part parody and part satire.
He's a dumb-*** dirtbag in a world of scum, tying in with the whole "No More Heroes" name.

Plus, plenty Smash characters take some clear inspiration.
Ike is clearly Guts from Berserk. Simon is Conan the Barbarian. You could probably go on.

He's also Johnny Knoxville.

Also technically I guess Mario is Popeye

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm not expecting to see Paper Mario in the base game but I think he's more likely for DLC. Just my thoughts though. All depends on Geno's fate.

 

[Blue7113]

Curious...how do they know Dark Pit but not Pit? Already a Kid Icarus character sticks out here but this one in particular?

My brother liked to joke about him when he was confirmed for smash. Basically the meme

 

[StormC]

I think also character choices on the ballot can be informed by Sakurai's biases.

Say Geno gets top 20 or outright lost to Paper Mario on the ballot, Sakurai might go "huh, people still want Geno after all these years... well, I have a partnership with Square, might as well try again." I doubt the remaining characters will read like a top 10 list of ballot fanpolls.

Similarly, Sakurai pointed out that Dark Samus and Chrom were popular outside of Japan and inside it, respectively. If Bandana Dee did well enough on the Japanese ballot, it might be enough for him to be included as a "Japanese favorite" even if his western ballot support was lesser at the time.

 

[Noipoi]

Wow...it's been 60 pages since I've last been here....and I was last here yesterday morning lol.

Anyways, got a question for you all. What were some things you thought would/wouldn't happen, but then actually ended up happening?

For me, I believed that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Konami considering what happened with the Metal Gear franchise and them not focusing on the video game market anymore. Oh, how times have changed .

I thought Pac Man wouldn't work, but clearly I was mistaken. To be fair though I didn't know about the Pac land games.

I thought Snake, Pichu, Young Link, and Pokemon Trainer would never return, i'm so glad I was wrong.

I thought Ashley had a chance, and we know how that happened.