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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Will

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Except dixie is both more relevant than and more popular than dark samus, she's very much worthy of being her own character.
Measuring how deserving a character is to be in Smash, let alone their status, is the common man's #1 mistake.

Give Dixie the :ultdk: recovery with :ulttoonlink: damage output (i'll explain if you dont know) and it's an easy peasy lemon squeezy echo.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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Reminder. All real leaks started out with pictures first. THEN video.

For both Brawl and Wii U/3DS.
 

StormC

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Not to be a stickler, but Daisy does have flowers and sports/party games to draw from. They practically have to make stuff up sometimes for her to have a special, but her powers DO exist.

Not that it matters since Peach's golf clubs and stuff kinda do mark most of Daisy's major roles in Sports games.
Whoa, I didn't know memoryman had another alt account on here.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I'd be fine with a Wolf-style approach of having similar specials, but completely different normals.
I could easily see them using Diddy as a base to save development time and creating a brand new moveset with that base, even as a unique character dixie would be easier to develop than some. Sort of like how Bayo was based off of ZSS and Corrin off of Ike (or marth? one of the two).
 

Will

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Reminder. All real leaks started out with pictures first. THEN video.

For both Brawl and Wii U/3DS.
When did Brawl have a video leak? I thought most things that did leak were Nintendo's fault.

No in-game model will be this high-poly. You can still count the polygons on Mario's hat, but this Geno is perfectly smooth and round.
How does a Wii U model get more polys than a Switch model?
 
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IGuessItsOver

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Except dixie is both more relevant than and more popular than dark samus, she's very much worthy of being her own character.
>implying popularity and relevancy mean anything
Nah man sorry, i still see her more as an echo than a newcomer (not that i don't want her, i even prefer her over Diddy). She only got popular because of the re-release of Tropical Freeze, and Dark Samus was one of the top most requested characters on the West + she was added to kinda promote the upcoming Metroid Prime 4 game.
 
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Luigi The President

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Except dixie is both more relevant than and more popular than dark samus, she's very much worthy of being her own character.
Comparing Dixie to Dark Samus? As a wise man once told me, "this ain't it chief."
Dark Samus isn't her own character, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
Dixie should be in, and I don't mind how since she's cool, but that's a big jump.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I don't see why we're still thinking echoes have to be 1:2? Chrom obviously takes moves from Ike, Dixie could swap out a few normal or special moves and still play a lot like Diddy. Enough to be called an echo, at least.
It's honestly just hard to gauge what is an echo and isn't, the only differing move we have is chrom's up special which is just taken from ike. I guess it's just a question of whether or not they're willing to take the time to develop new moves for echoes or not
 

StormC

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I vaguely recall a night where we were all up SUPER late because people were playing through Subspace.
I remember that night but I think it was only screenshots. No videos.

The final roster was also leaked through text, and then the screenshots confirmed it.
 

Will

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>implying popularity and relevancy mean anything
Nah man sorry, i still see her more as an echo than a newcomer (not that i don't want her, i even prefer her over Diddy). She only got popular because of the re-release of Tropical Freeze, and Dark Samus was one of the top most requested characters on the West
Echoes are newcomers though?

It's honestly just hard to gauge what is an echo and isn't, the only differing move we have is chrom's up special which is just taken from ike. I guess it's just a question of whether or not they're willing to take the time to develop new moves for echoes or not
Chrom's Aether has a different startup animation from Ike's to where Chrom hits people near him as Ike's hits those above him before doing the actual move.
Like I said earlier, I can see Dixie getting DK's recovery but that's about it in terms of differences, everything else matches fine.
 
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D

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When did Brawl have a video leak? I thought most things that did leak were Nintendo's fault.
Don't you know how leaks work? You get the text leak, which evolves at level 16 into a picture, and at level 34 into a video.
 

Nazyrus

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It's honestly just hard to gauge what is an echo and isn't, the only differing move we have is chrom's up special which is just taken from ike. I guess it's just a question of whether or not they're willing to take the time to develop new moves for echoes or not
For 1 or very few echoes, i can see them taking such liberty. I don't see a rule written down on stone saying they wouldn't.
 

P1ZZ4CHU

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Reminder. All real leaks started out with pictures first. THEN video.

For both Brawl and Wii U/3DS.
Funny enough, as much as people rag on text leaks they are, pound for pound, still the most likely to be real. I can count only a handful of times across all the speculation circles I've been in that images without accompanying video have panned out as real. Yet I've seen entire games dumped in some forum post that got mocked for a day and forgotten afterwards.
 

Shyy_Guy595

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Whoa, I didn't know memoryman had another alt account on here.
Now, that's just being an asshole.

He's delusional; I'm simply pointing out something that was kinda wrong given all the spin-offs that gave her specific abilities.

But uh, okay. I suppose I'll ignore your next post if it's as rude as that one when it comes to a character that's largely a reskin and doesn't hurt anyone?
 

Will

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With a newcomer i mean a fully fledged character, fully made from the ground up
Well, so are they kinda, they gotta get new models mostly.
How does Dark Samus' Wii U model look compared to how she looks in Ultimate? Were there any significant design changes?
 

StormC

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Now, that's just being an *******.

He's delusional; I'm simply pointing out something that was kinda wrong given all the spin-offs that gave her specific abilities.

But uh, okay. I suppose I'll ignore your next post if it's as rude as that one when it comes to a character that's largely a reskin and doesn't hurt anyone?
It's a joke mate. Relax.

You guys remember when Waluigi got in Smash 4 over Rosalina? I mean, he's so much more infinitely deserving, popular, and worthy.

Oh. Hold on.
idk what "deserving" means in the context of Waluigi who has been nothing but spin-off fodder since the day he was made

(don't hurl tomatoes at me, I like Waluigi)
 

ZephyrZ

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Something always rubbed me the wrong way about Dixie as an echo fighter, but I always kept quite about it until now because I couldn't put my finger on why. Until now.

The reason I'm satisfied with characters like Dark Pit, Dark Samus and Lucina as echoes is because, even despite liking them and having ideas to declone them, none of them would have made it into the roster otherwise. Beggers can't be choosers and whatnot. Even in the case of Shadow I have a difficult time seeing him get in as a unique character before the even more iconic and recognizable Tails the Fox.

But Dixie Kong? I always felt like she had a chance. We're running out of must-have first party characters and she feels like one of the only ones left. Seeing a character who you never actually expected to get in can be exciting, but seeing character who had a strong chance of making it in as unique get relegated to an echo spot is slightly dissapointing. I feel like it'd be better to save her for DLC if they want to include her but can't without cloning.

That said, I could still see them adding her. It's not that she wouldn't make sense as an echo if they tweak her right, it's just that it wouldn't really sit well with me.
 

Luigi The President

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It's a joke mate. Relax.



idk what "deserving" means in the context of Waluigi who has been nothing but spin-off fodder since the day he was made

(don't hurl tomatoes at me, I like Waluigi)
I'm not saying that's how I feel, I'm saying that you could swap out a good chunk of characters for Waluigi and Rosalina and see the most common arguments that Sakurai disproved that still see life today.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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No in-game model will be this high-poly. You can still count the polygons on Mario's hat, but this Geno is perfectly smooth and round.
image0.png


What about that one? Or is this one the one you were talking about?
 

Wyoming

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Please God announce that September Direct soon and save us from speculation hell, amen
They tend to get announced on Sundays, correct? Better pray hard tonight if you want it.

I am banking on one in two weels time personally.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Measuring how deserving a character is to be in Smash, let alone their status, is the common man's #1 mistake.

Give Dixie the :ultdk: recovery with :ulttoonlink: damage output (i'll explain if you dont know) and it's an easy peasy lemon squeezy echo.
Could dixie be an echo? without a doubt, physically she is capable of copying Diddy's moveset. Should she be one is an entirely different question. And I'd argue that given her popularity and the potential a ponytail based moveset holds that she shouldn't. She was planned to be unique in brawl afterwards (at least we assume so), I just hope sakurai still sees that potential.

Not to be a stickler, but Daisy does have flowers and sports/party games to draw from. They practically have to make stuff up sometimes for her to have a special, but her powers DO exist.

Not that it matters since Peach's golf clubs and stuff kinda do mark most of Daisy's major roles in Sports games.
You're not exactly wrong but they're replicated simply by replacing peach's effects, and they're also non-canon, daisy has only been in one canon game and doesn't display any actual abilities in that game.
 

Will

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idk what "deserving" means in the context of Waluigi who has been nothing but spin-off fodder since the day he was made

(don't hurl tomatoes at me, I like Waluigi)
The thing about Waluigi is that he's the spin-off character. That's his gimmick.
 

StormC

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I'm not saying that's how I feel, I'm saying that you could swap out a good chunk of characters for Waluigi and Rosalina and see the most common arguments that Sakurai disproved that still see life today.
I just mean I don't think Waluigi's arguments were "he deserves it." Maybe I'm just totally wrong and out of touch with Waluigi supporters, but especially during Smash 4, I don't think that was the common dialogue. It feels like Smash Ultimate is the first time people actually expected Waluigi.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Something always rubbed me the wrong way about Dixie as an echo fighter, but I always kept quite about it until now because I couldn't put my finger on why. Until now.

The reason I'm satisfied with characters like Dark Pit, Dark Samus and Lucina as echoes is because, even despite liking them and having ideas to declone them, none of them would have made it into the roster otherwise. Beggers can't be choosers and whatnot. Even in the case of Shadow I have a difficult time seeing him get in as a unique character before the even more iconic and recognizable Tails the Fox.

But Dixie Kong? I always felt like she had a chance. We're running out of must-have first party characters and she feels like one of the only ones left. Seeing a character who you never actually expected to get in can be exciting, but seeing character who had a strong chance of making it in as unique get relegated to an echo spot is slightly dissapointing. I feel like it'd be better to save her for DLC if they want to include her but can't without cloning.

That said, I could still see them adding her. It's not that she wouldn't make sense as an echo if they tweak her right, it's just that it wouldn't really sit well with me.
This is what I meant when comparing her to dark samus, dark samus would not be in this game if she wasn't a clone.
 

Luigi The President

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I just mean I don't think Waluigi's arguments were "he deserves it." Maybe I'm just totally wrong and out of touch with Waluigi supporters, but especially during Smash 4, I don't think that was the common dialogue. It feels like Smash Ultimate is the first time people actually expected Waluigi.
Yeah no you kinda are, not to be rude at all. At least in my eyes. It definitely feels like that was the dialogue in my eyes. Got pretty crazy too.
Granted, I too want Waluigi in the game and have for years, unironically. Which is why I'm aware of the common arguments.

Could dixie be an echo? without a doubt, physically she is capable of copying Diddy's moveset. Should she be one is an entirely different question. And I'd argue that given her popularity and the potential a ponytail based moveset holds that she shouldn't. She was planned to be unique in brawl afterwards (at least we assume so), I just hope sakurai still sees that potential.


You're not exactly wrong but they're replicated simply by replacing peach's effects, and they're also non-canon, daisy has only been in one canon game and doesn't display any actual abilities in that game.
Which we shouldn't assume, because IIRC she was going to be a tag-team character with Diddy a la Ice Climbers.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Is that one meant to be in-game? It looks more like a render, which would be hi-resolution.
The colors in the background are confusing. It could be a stage.

But it could also be the character select screen.

I don't know if the leak even stated where it's suppose to be from.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Yeah no you kinda are, not to be rude at all. At least in my eyes. It definitely feels like that was the dialogue in my eyes. Got pretty crazy too.
Granted, I too want Waluigi in the game and have for years, unironically. Which is why I'm aware of the common arguments.


Which we shouldn't assume, because IIRC she was going to be a tag-team character with Diddy a la Ice Climbers.
It's generally assumed they'd be a tag team type character where you could switch them out just like in the DKC games, what's the point of a switch out system if both characters played the same? the idea, at least in my opinion, was to have them both be unique
 
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Zathura

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I just mean I don't think Waluigi's arguments were "he deserves it." Maybe I'm just totally wrong and out of touch with Waluigi supporters, but especially during Smash 4, I don't think that was the common dialogue. It feels like Smash Ultimate is the first time people actually expected Waluigi.
I feel like "he deserves it" was the most used argument amongst waluigi fans, basically saying he deserves it because he's a recurring character that's popular. Imo he deserves it as much as daisy, but daisy had someone to echo from so I guess she just got lucky
 

Will

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Could dixie be an echo? without a doubt, physically she is capable of copying Diddy's moveset. Should she be one is an entirely different question. And I'd argue that given her popularity and the potential a ponytail based moveset holds that she shouldn't. She was planned to be unique in brawl afterwards (at least we assume so), I just hope sakurai still sees that potential.
That was before the conception of Echoes as an idea though. If Echoes weren't considered to be official or planned, :ultdaisy::ultchrom::ultdarksamus::ultrichter: are gone. Dixie would've been in the same boat since K. Rool was a big boy on the big ballot, already a new DK character.

Dark Samus is way more popular than you may think. Sakurai even said that she and Chrom were highly requested.
Say it with me now: Highly. Requested.
She was definitely significant enough to be recognized, and is already shown to be a far more capable fighter with her own ablities, but look what happened.

If you want a moveset based on hair, :ultbayonetta: has you covered. Dixie's chances as an Echo are way higher than her chances of being unique.
 
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