Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

I bet you're upset at easy modes in games too. Think of the majority, casual fans

That doesn't follow.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That doesn't follow.

Why would people who aren't into competitive Smash care about desyncing? Not everyone cares about that, just because you don't care otherwise doesn't mean everyone else does. You have this problem where you think "I don't care or find it interesting" and say it in a way that says "Nobody will care because I don't and I'm super duper important!"

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I can't control what you infer from my posts. As far as desyncing, how does it hurt casual players?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I can't control what you infer from my posts. As far as desyncing, how does it hurt casual players?

It doesn't. Neither does removing it. AKA, they won't care. Because it isn't the main gimmick of the Ice Climbers, their gimmick is having 2 characters

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

So what's the problem with me wanting it?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So what's the problem with me wanting it?

Nothing. Because that wasn't the problem, the problem was "I don't want them if they can't do it"

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

And why is that a problem?

 

[Megadoomer]

And why is that a problem?

Most people aren't even aware that it exists, so saying that the Ice Climbers shouldn't be included if they can't pull off a technique that most people are unaware of or don't care about seems like a really odd limitation. It's like saying that they should cut Luigi if he can't wavedash - most people aren't going to care about his ability to wavedash.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Let's not equivocate on 'should' here. I'm talking about what I want. I'm saying that I don't want them in if they can't do cool ****. A lot of the cool **** they do is from desyncing.

 

[Deleted member]

I hate Shulk, I hope he's cut in the next game.

I hate Mario, I hope he's cut in the next game.

I hate Zelda, I hope the entire series is cut in the next game.

:V


Also I fully agree about the "Rex should replace Shulk" nonsense. is technically the of the Xenoblade franchise and Rex could get added along with him. Not to mention how Xenoblade 2 is the best-selling game of the series to date.

Also umpteenth reminder that Monolith Soft is a Nintendo 1st-party studio now, meaning that and other Xenoblade characters belong as much to Nintendo as , , and such, meaning they are easier to deal with than with characters like the ones from the Pokémon series.

And speaking of Xenoblade 2, with Mythra having a figma along with Pyra, I believe we can expect Rex being partnered with both of them.
Repeating my idea here, but Rex would be a unique case on the CSS as you could choose between Pyra and Mythra. There wouldn't be much differences between them except for giving Rex different special moves (special arts) and properties (fire for Pyra and light for Mythra).
And before "muh switching blades", that would give too much complexity and it's basically bringing back the transformation gimmick, which needs to stay away forever.

 

[Lukingordex]

Or how Lucas was supposed to replace Ness.
There's a reason as to why that didn't happen, and I feel that it's likely gonna apply again with Xenoblade.

Just intruding on the conversation a little, Ness was actually meant to be replaced by Lucas in Melee but Mother 3's development was a mess and since the game didn't get released in time they kept Ness in. In Brawl, I assume Lucas was higher priority than Ness due to being on the base roster and Ness a secret character. After Brawl, since Ness was a 64 original and got in in 3 games consecutively, I think he became a guaranted stay in every smash bros. game after that

 

[Luminario]

For a while now I've wondered what the odds are of us getting a new Pokemon character and retaining all of our current Pokemon veterans in the next entry.

I used to to think that Greninja had a moderate chance of getting cut in the following Smash (whenever it would come to be) but now I think it's spot in Smash is a lot more secure. As far as I can tell, Lucario largely got in for similar reasons as Greninja, and Lucartio stayed over for Smash 4 after making his Smash debut in Brawl, as did Charizard which is also a prominent and very popular Pokemon in it's own right.

It is true though that Jigglypuff is the most likely out of any of the original 12 characters to be cut....which is a shame, but even then, it's very unlikely that she'll be cut unless something takes up a serious amount of development time. She's always been one of low priority characters, but still hasn't gone anywhere so far.

I'm positive that we're going to get another Pokemon newcomer in the next game, but I'm curious. What do you guys think are the odds of every current Pokemon vet staying around for the next game (not counting a port in this case, of course), in addition to getting at least one newcomer from that same franchise?

It's just too early to tell at this point to be honest. We've never had any situations like this so we can't know the rules.
I'd say Greninja and Mewtwo are still on somewhat shaky ground, Greninja much less so but he's still lower than the other 3 unique Pokes. Unless Smash Switch is releasing late 2019-2020 Greninja's probably safe enough, but as we get further from Gen 6 and we get other Gens with other starters Greninja's chances start to dwindle.
I will say that Pokemon is popular and important enough to get 7+ fighters, though I'm not exactly counting on it.

 

[Krysco]

I see no issue with wanting a character to have some depth to them and if the character loses that depth, people could very well lose interest in said character. Not everyone knows about the desyncs but really, it's one of the best benefits to their gimmick. The only other notable ones being that every attack essentially functions as a multihit and as long as the Ice Climbers are together, it's basically impossible to grab them since whichever one you don't grab can just attack you. The price for this being that you have to basically babysit the AI player since if they get KO'd, your recovery, kill power and damage racking are all garbage.

Just look at Falco and Marth, 2 very popular characters in Melee and they both have things that they lost in later Smash games, namely 4. Marth no longer has the Ken Combo, Dolphin Slash kills way later, his throws don't lead to the amazing follow ups they used to. Falco lost his shine combos, his good blaster, Phantasm hardly has a hitbox anymore. I can easily see people not caring if those characters got into another Smash game since they have already lost tools that previously made them fun and you don't even have to be a competitive player to notice those changes. Another example could be people not caring for Samus/Zero Suit or Zelda/Sheik since they lost their transforming abilities.

 

[Deleted member]

Just intruding on the conversation a little, Ness was actually meant to be replaced by Lucas in Melee but Mother 3's development was a mess and since the game didn't get released in time they kept Ness in. In Brawl, I assume Lucas was higher priority than Ness due to being on the base roster and Ness a secret character. After Brawl, since Ness was a 64 original and got in in 3 games consecutively, I think he became a guaranted stay in every smash bros. game after that

Fair arguement, but my point still stands.
I can see Rex taking priority over Shulk, but I doubt he'd actually replace him.

 

[Opossum]

People in this thread need to stop getting upset over other people's wants.

Seriously, I love the Ice Climbers and I want them back desynching or otherwise, but if someone else only wants them for the desynching, it's not a big deal, and also not your problem.

 

[Zem-raj]

People in this thread need to stop getting upset over other people's wants.

Seriously, I love the Ice Climbers and I want them back desynching or otherwise, but if someone else only wants them for the desynching, it's not a big deal, and also not your problem.

I guess what you're trying to say is, that people need to

chill out.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess what you're trying to say is, that people need to

chill out.

Let's not go standing on thin ice with the puns, alright?

 

[Deleted member]

I guess what you're trying to say is, that people need to

chill out.

Yeah, we shouldn't let things get heated.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yeah, we shouldn't let things get heated.

Seriously guys

let it go.

....am I doing this right???

 

[Deleted member]

Seriously guys

let it go.

Spoiler: Large images but open this pls

But yeah let's stop.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

View attachment 137328

Yeah, that kinda left me frozen in my tracks.

OK, NOW we stop

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It's just too early to tell at this point to be honest. We've never had any situations like this so we can't know the rules.
I'd say Greninja and Mewtwo are still on somewhat shaky ground, Greninja much less so but he's still lower than the other 3 unique Pokes. Unless Smash Switch is releasing late 2019-2020 Greninja's probably safe enough, but as we get further from Gen 6 and we get other Gens with other starters Greninja's chances start to dwindle.
I will say that Pokemon is popular and important enough to get 7+ fighters, though I'm not exactly counting on it.

Can I ask what exactly you mean by Greninja being "lower" than the other three? I'm also curious as to why you think Mewtwo isn't in the best position.

In any case your point about having never been in a situation quite like this is fair enough.

 

[Luminario]

Can I ask what exactly you mean by Greninja being "lower" than the other three? I'm also curious as to why you think Mewtwo isn't in the best position.

In any case your point about having never been in a situation quite like this is fair enough.

I probably should have clarified that I'd say Pikachu, Charizard and Lucario are safer than Greninja. I meant he's likely lower priority than those 3 going forwards.
Mewtwo's not in the best position because in a new game he's likely lower priority than all the other Pokemon (besides Jiggs) plus the inevitable Pokemon newcomer(s).
Of course, I could be completely wrong on this though. There's too much we don't know about the next game for me to be able to make any reliable conclusion.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I probably should have clarified that I'd say Pikachu, Charizard and Lucario are safer than Greninja. I meant he's likely lower priority than those 3 going forwards.
Mewtwo's not in the best position because in a new game he's likely lower priority than all the other Pokemon (besides Jiggs) plus the inevitable Pokemon newcomer(s).
Of course, I could be completely wrong on this though. There's too much we don't know about the next game for me to be able to make any reliable conclusion.

Plus, you'd also need to take Mewtwo being a DLC character into account; we dunno how Smash 5, and by extension the series, will treat those.

 

[One winged Devil]

I guess what you're trying to say is, that people need to

chill out.

OK I think we need to cool alright.

Also I would like to Pokemon Trainer come back with alts with other Pokemon starters.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why do people like Lucario so much?

 

[Opossum]

Why do people like Lucario so much?

He's got a likable design and cool aura powers. Plus he gets marketed a lot, and that usually helps. Exposure often leads to people having stronger opinions, good or bad.

Personally, I like Lucario because he was a standout on my team in both Black 2 and Y.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do people like Lucario so much?

Because it's a good Pokemon.

 

[One winged Devil]

Why do people like Lucario so much?

Because he's sexy duh.

 

[Deleted member]

A lot, if not most of Lucario's fandom came from the movie it starred in since it was a genuinely good film and the Lucario in it was a beloved character.

Other than that, most likely its design and its mastery of Aura being an interesting concept for a Pokémon.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Why do people like Lucario so much?

He's got a likable design and cool aura powers. Plus he gets marketed a lot, and that usually helps. Exposure often leads to people having stronger opinions, good or bad.

Personally, I like Lucario because he was a standout on my team in both Black 2 and Y.

A lot, if not most of Lucario's fandom came from the movie it starred in since it was a genuinely good film and the Lucario in it was a beloved character.

Other than that, most likely its design and its mastery of Aura being an interesting concept for a Pokémon.

It also helps that in one movie and in Smash for Wii U/3DS, he's voiced by Sean Schemmel who dubs Dragon Ball's Goku in Funimation's English dub.

 

[One winged Devil]

A lot, if not most of Lucario's fandom came from the movie it starred in since it was a genuinely good film and the Lucario in it was a beloved character.

Other than that, most likely its design and its mastery of Aura being an interesting concept for a Pokémon.

Plus the Rule 34 artists loved it too.

But real talk unlike Zoroark, Lucario can actually take hits in battle thanks to it's steel typing.

 

[Deleted member]

Plus the Rule 34 artists loved it too.

But real talk unlike Zoroark, Lucario can actually take hits in battle thanks to it's steel typing.

Except for moves of its own Fighting type.

Though Zoroark is a good example of something they tried to replicate Lucario's success with, but ultimately failed.
More than just for Zoroark being rather situational of a Pokémon to use, but because its movie wasn't as well-received and the initial reception was mixed at best for its design.
....and it didn't help that Zoroark and its pre-evolution Zorua were at the time treated like special event Pokémon with limited distribution (that required OTHER event Pokémon like Celebi and the Shiny Beast Trio).

Basically, they tried too hard to make another "Lucario" that it backfired.
Probably why X/Y didn't repeat the same mistake (though having a movie with something like Tyrantrum as the star would have been awesome and a neat throwback to the original concept of Pokémon 3 before they went with the whole Unown thing).

 

[One winged Devil]

Except for moves of its own Fighting type.

Though Zoroark is a good example of something they tried to replicate Lucario's success with, but ultimately failed.
More than just for Zoroark being rather situational of a Pokémon to use, but because its movie wasn't as well-received and the initial reception was mixed at best for its design.
....and it didn't help that Zoroark and its pre-evolution Zorua were at the time treated like special event Pokémon with limited distribution (that required OTHER event Pokémon like Celebi and the Shiny Beast Trio).

Basically, they tried too hard to make another "Lucario" that it backfired.
Probably why X/Y didn't repeat the same mistake (though having a movie with something like Tyrantrum as the star would have been awesome and a neat throwback to the original concept of Pokémon 3 before they went with the whole Unown thing).

Yeah, fun fact I actually went to event when they were giving it away at toys ur us, very disappointed with the mon but it was fun ride there away.

I love the design though, reminds me of Shadow.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why do people like Lucario so much?

It does possess a very unique mechanic that no one else in Smash Bros. offers.

 

[Staarih]

Being a ”good” Pokémon, competitively speaking, also seems to help in long-lasting popularity - most likely a factor for Lucario and Greninja. I see something similar brewing for Tapu Koko who appears to be semi popular in the competitive scene (and who also has significant appearances in both games and the anime).

Movies help a lot as well of course and were on the road to getting a new furball soon who will most likely appear in the new movie... I predict he’ll grow up to be a popular one.

As for Zoroark, his ”failed” success just made me like him more, one of my faves these days.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I don't like his design.

 

[One winged Devil]

I don't like his design.

Lucario or Zoroark?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the last poll was Scizor, I'd say having a cool design and being a great Pokken fighter helped. Heracross was definitely close though as the two were constantly fighting for that top spot. As for Wobbuffet, he was lucky to have beaten Ampharos.

Next up is likely the last Gen 2 poll before we move on to Gen 3. Your picks are Tyranitar, Hitmontop, Ursaring, and Slowking.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Something tells me that I need a better sleep schedule.

 

[Deleted member]

The winner of the last poll was Scizor, I'd say having a cool design and being a great Pokken fighter helped. Heracross was definitely close though as the two were constantly fighting for that top spot. As for Wobbuffet, he was lucky to have beaten Ampharos.

Next up is likely the last Gen 2 poll before we move on to Gen 3. Your picks are Tyranitar, Hitmontop, Ursaring, and Slowking.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Something tells me that I need a better sleep schedule.

Mini-Rockzilla should have been in Pokken at the very least.