Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm curious, why Cosmog? It only learns two moves that literally do nothing.

My best guess is to have another joke character, but even joke characters have to have moveset potential.

 

[Deleted member]

If we were mentioning the chances of them going into Smash for Switch if they were not in Smash 4, than most of the new-comers would show up. I think they would add Shulk, because he was the start of the XC2 series. Shulk can go along in the Xenoblade Chronicles cast with Pyra and Rex. Am I the only one hoping for Mythra as well?

You know the discussion wasn't about their odds of returning, right? It was a hypothetical thing about what their odds would be if they weren't added in Smash 4.

Oh, darn it. My apologies.
Well that was my chart of the chances of the newcomers in Smash for Switch.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Why don't we add a Digimon (or Appmon) fighter in Smash 5?
Is it a good idea?

 

[Deleted member]

So today I've thought of a concept for boss fights in a new SSE like adventure mode that I thought was pretty cool.
What if the bosses were fusions between 2 bosses from 2 different series? In case you're confused, I'll provide an example.

Spoiler: Boss concept

Wham Bam Andross - A fusion between Wham Bam Rock from Kirby Super Star and Andross from the Star Fox series.

Basically imagine Andross with the earrings, the forehead jewel, and the crown thing, and pretend that its gloves are made of stone.
The boss' attacks are based off Andross and Wham Bam's attacks from their games (Rock slides, Laser Beams and more), and you have to hit its hands. You can shoot it in the eyes, and if you do that enough times he will rub them with his gloves. After you destroy the gloves (Which have two layers), he will try to suck you and a bunch of rocks in and then spit them back. Shoot it in the eyes until it's dead.
The boss battle music is the decisive battlefield theme from Team Kirby Clash Deluxe with some notes of Andross' battle theme.
You can also pause the fight to get some lore on how Andross fused with Wham Bam (It's all assumptions though - will elaborate below).
For my hypothetical intense boss rush, each boss has a second phase. Considering it's Andross, the second phase would have to be the brain, but Wham Bam Rock doesn't have a second phase, so I decided to take some creative liberties...

Spoiler

Don't worry, I have some lore based justifications.
Basically, the true story behind how Wham Bam Andross came to be is that Andross set out to find Nova to grant a wish, and his wish was... To attach Nova to his Brain so that he could make every idea he thinks of come true. I've got nothing else, okay?
This boss uses some of True form Andross' attacks as well as some Star Dream's phase 3's attacks, and the music is a combination between Brain Andross' theme and Mind in a PROGRAM.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Cosmic77]

Why don't we add a Digimon (or Appmon) fighter in Smash 5?
Is it a good idea?

Digimon would be a little random, since the franchise hasn't been nearly as popular lately. Melee or Brawl would have been the best time to add a Digimon rep, but those games have long since passed. Two years ago, I would've said a Yokai Watch character would be likely, but it seems like those odds are slipping away too.

For now, I think Pokemon is the only "monster-capturing RPG" that will see characters in Smash.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

So today I've thought of a concept for boss fights in a new SSE like adventure mode that I thought was pretty cool.
What if the bosses were fusions between 2 bosses from 2 different series? In case you don't understand, I'll provide an example.

Been out for a while....
anyways, this idea seems a bit outlandish, but enough to catch my interest for such a concept like that. To me It has the potential to have some intriguing boss fights, like for me, I would love to see a fusion between Hades(Kid Icarus: Uprising) & Giygas(Earthbound) since they're like the end all be all destroyers of humanity that would make for an epic boss fight.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

That last poll was interested, it seems that veterans always prevail when Squirtle was the winner. Both Snorlax and Raichu were at least closet the top spot, but Venasaur stayed last the whole time.

Now we begin Generation 2 of Pokemon with some of the starters and one veteran. Your picks are Typhlosion, Meganium, Feraligatr, and Pichu.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

I personally think they will bring back some characters from previous games.
Heres what i think they will bring back:

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think they will bring back some characters from previous games.
Heres what i think they will bring back:

Woah there, that's a lot of cuts.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I personally think they will bring back some characters from previous games.
Heres what i think they will bring back:

You forgot the Kongs...

 

[Deleted member]

I decided to hop in on this "What if they weren't in Smash 4?" bandwagon.

- I doubt much would change here.
- Some would bring up Wii Fit's success, while others would point out that she hadn't had a game since before Smash 4's release and likely won't at this point.
- Had major appearances in 3 mainline games, had a cameo in Odyssey, and is a recurring character in spin-offs. Some would use the "cameos and spin-offs don't matter" argument and point out that her playable appearance in 3D World was before Smash 4's release, while others would argue that her overall prominence helps her chances.
- A beloved character who had a successful revival on the Wii, but I can see people arguing that his time has long passed, while others could make a case for him being a "retro" candidate.
- A similar case to Mac; a successful revival that not much came out of. Some might be generous towards Dart Pit due to him being last-minute clone material, though.
- Flavor of the month Fire Emblem characters seen as yesterday's news, though Lucina might be given a free pass from some people due to being last-minute clone material.
- Also yesterday's news, though there'd probably be plenty of "He's the Marth of Xenoblade!" arguments. Though I think Rex would generally be seen as more likely.
- See Villager, though some would point out that they aren't as commonly supported on the Switch as they were in the past.
- Mega Man 11 would be seen as boosting his chances, and he was the most popular third party request after Sonic was confirmed for Brawl as far as I can tell.
- Really, much of it would depend on whether or not Namco co-develops Smash 5.
- "Sakurai said no to fighting game characters!" would still be a common argument. Also, with Mega Man not in Smash, they'd be seen as competition.
- Not much would really change here. "He only made cameo and spin-off appearances on Nintendo platforms, those don't count!"
- Not much would really change here either. She's still nowhere near as much of a gaming icon as Snake or Sonic is, and her sexualization would still be seen as a detriment to her chances. The only major change would be that the "one character per third party company" fan rule still hadn't been debunked since Ryu is out of the picture in this scenario.

 

[N3ON]

Characters that would probably still get added:


Characters that wouldn't:


Could go either way:


I don't think people realize that apart from third-parties and one retro, if you didn't have recency on your side, you didn't get in.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm much more interested in what the demand would be for the characters than what their chances would have been.

Anyway,

I'm not sure if she would appear in smash 5 if she wasn't in 4. It's important to notice that her appearance in smash 4 was actually the first signal we got that nintendo was actually pushing her series that much, and probably it's what made her future games to be nintendo exclusives in the first place.

No, I think that would be the Bayonetta cosplay shoot with the Playboy bunny.

 

[Deleted member]

You're wrong about one thing, N3ON.
Dark Pit would have still made it, as much as you wish he wouldn't.

It was a lot more than just "recency" that got him in. He still would have been initially planned as an alt.

EDIT:
Actually, Lucina would have still been there too for the very same reason.

 

[Bowserlick]

So today I've thought of a concept for boss fights in a new SSE like adventure mode that I thought was pretty cool.
What if the bosses were fusions between 2 bosses from 2 different series? In case you're confused, I'll provide an example.

Spoiler: Boss concept

Wham Bam Andross - A fusion between Wham Bam Rock from Kirby Super Star and Andross from the Star Fox series.

Basically imagine Andross with the earrings, the forehead jewel, and the crown thing, and pretend that its gloves are made of stone.
The boss' attacks are based off Andross and Wham Bam's attacks from their games (Rock slides, Laser Beams and more), and you have to hit its hands. You can shoot it in the eyes, and if you do that enough times he will rub them with his gloves. After you destroy the gloves (Which have two layers), he will try to suck you and a bunch of rocks in and then spit them back. Shoot it in the eyes until it's dead.
The boss battle music is the decisive battlefield theme from Team Kirby Clash Deluxe with some notes of Andross' battle theme.
You can also pause the fight to get some lore on how Andross fused with Wham Bam (It's all assumptions though - will elaborate below).
For my hypothetical intense boss rush, each boss has a second phase. Considering it's Andross, the second phase would have to be the brain, but Wham Bam Rock doesn't have a second phase, so I decided to take some creative liberties...

Spoiler

Don't worry, I have some lore based justifications.
Basically, the true story behind how Wham Bam Andross came to be is that Andross set out to find Nova to grant a wish, and his wish was... To attach Nova to his Brain so that he could make every idea he thinks of come true. I've got nothing else, okay?
This boss uses some of True form Andross' attacks as well as some Star Dream's phase 3's attacks, and the music is a combination between Brain Andross' theme and Mind in a PROGRAM.

Tell me what you think.

The idea of bosses fusing (possibly as a result of Nintendo worlds collapsing into each other) is a great creative idea that I personally would enjoy.

I am not sure if this will be done because the Smash director has to have a certain faithfulness concerning character designs created by many different designers/developers/directors.

* If I was in charge of picking two bosses merging with each other, I would try to find visually and perhaps characteristically different individuals to combine.

 

[Cosmic77]

You're wrong about one thing, N3ON.
Dark Pit would have still made it, as much as you wish he wouldn't.

It was a lot more than just "recency" that got him in. He still would have been initially planned as an alt.

EDIT:
Actually, Lucina would have still been there too for the very same reason.

Lucina? Maybe. Dark Pit? I'd say probably not.

Even if Lucina was outdated by the time Smash 5 came out, at least she would have her unwavering support from fans (which may or may not have been notably smaller if she was left out of Smash 4). Dark Pit isn't even close to having that popularity. Clone or no clone, if Palutena is too outdated by the time Smash 5 rolls around, Dark Pit wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucina? Maybe. Dark Pit? I'd say probably not.

Even if Lucina was outdated by the time Smash 5 came out, at least she would have her unwavering support from fans (which may or may not have been notably smaller if she was left out of Smash 4). Dark Pit isn't even close to having that popularity. Clone or no clone, if Palutena is too outdated by the time Smash 5 rolls around, Dark Pit wouldn't stand a chance.

That means literally nothing.

"Fan support" had no bearing whatsoever on the clones/costumes.

 

[Cosmic77]

That means literally nothing.

"Fan support" had no bearing whatsoever on the clones/costumes.

We're talking about the odds of newcomers from Smash 4 debuting in Smash 5 if they never got added.

Relevancy is a factor that helped Lucina and Dark Pit get added in Smash 4 over other potential clone characters. By Smash 5, they'd no longer have that same relevancy, and popularity would be one of the only things left to determine whether or not Sakurai would bother working on them over a clone character from a more recent game.

Lucina would have popularity going for her. Dark Pit wouldn't really have anything, besides maybe Sakurai wanting another KI character.

 

[PsychoJosh]

So today I've thought of a concept for boss fights in a new SSE like adventure mode that I thought was pretty cool.
What if the bosses were fusions between 2 bosses from 2 different series? In case you're confused, I'll provide an example.

Spoiler: Boss concept

Wham Bam Andross - A fusion between Wham Bam Rock from Kirby Super Star and Andross from the Star Fox series.

Basically imagine Andross with the earrings, the forehead jewel, and the crown thing, and pretend that its gloves are made of stone.
The boss' attacks are based off Andross and Wham Bam's attacks from their games (Rock slides, Laser Beams and more), and you have to hit its hands. You can shoot it in the eyes, and if you do that enough times he will rub them with his gloves. After you destroy the gloves (Which have two layers), he will try to suck you and a bunch of rocks in and then spit them back. Shoot it in the eyes until it's dead.
The boss battle music is the decisive battlefield theme from Team Kirby Clash Deluxe with some notes of Andross' battle theme.
You can also pause the fight to get some lore on how Andross fused with Wham Bam (It's all assumptions though - will elaborate below).
For my hypothetical intense boss rush, each boss has a second phase. Considering it's Andross, the second phase would have to be the brain, but Wham Bam Rock doesn't have a second phase, so I decided to take some creative liberties...

Spoiler

Don't worry, I have some lore based justifications.
Basically, the true story behind how Wham Bam Andross came to be is that Andross set out to find Nova to grant a wish, and his wish was... To attach Nova to his Brain so that he could make every idea he thinks of come true. I've got nothing else, okay?
This boss uses some of True form Andross' attacks as well as some Star Dream's phase 3's attacks, and the music is a combination between Brain Andross' theme and Mind in a PROGRAM.

Tell me what you think.

Seems like it could be a good idea, although Wham Bam Rock is a very minor villain to be combining with a major villain like Andross. I'd just use Nova for the fusion and forget about WBR entirely.

I'm not entirely a fan of Kirby damage sponge-style bosses in Smash so I like the idea of progressively destroying parts of the boss and weakening him. Maybe a nova bomb item appears on stage when Andross tries sucking you in so you can throw it in his mouth.

I'm more of a fan of Andross' classic design, so I was thinking when you destroy SF64 Andross, his face peels away and you see Nova combine with SNES Andross.

Spoiler

Star Dream in Planet Robobot actually takes several moves and cues from classic Andross so it would make more sense to combine them.

 

[N3ON]

You're wrong about one thing, N3ON.
Dark Pit would have still made it, as much as you wish he wouldn't.

It was a lot more than just "recency" that got him in. He still would have been initially planned as an alt.

EDIT:
Actually, Lucina would have still been there too for the very same reason.

But this paradigm isn't why they were included. This paradigm is what if they weren't included in Smash 4 (unless I've misinterpreted the topic). And if they weren't initially planned and ultimately included in that game - when their odds were best, why would they be included as alts or characters in Smash 5, years down the line, with no more recent appearances?

It might not have been primarily recency that got them included, it wasn't, but even those two, plus Alph, were of recent importance. They wouldn't be for a Smash 5 without a Smash 4.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The contradiction of removing quick to make characters to add more development time has been explained so many times, I can't believe people are still suggesting it.

The only two characters I definitely see getting cut are Shulk,Wii Fit Trainer, and Corrin.

People try to argue that Shulk is "the face of the series", but I seriously doubt that matters being that he was only in one game. He's not like Marth or Ness (even if Ness was a different character in Mother, his design is practically identical to Ninten). With Rex & Pyra in the game, I can see that easily deprioritizing Shulk. Having both seems unnecessary to me.

Wii Fit Trainer is self explanatory. I don't wanna see her removed because she's such a neat addition, but being a one time veteran from a dead brand with no future installments would make her presence out of place. She'd definitely be a lower priority.

I can see Robin and Greninja being lower priority too. The only reason I'm not certain of that is Greninja's popularity and Awakening's popularity. But, cuts are harsh and I can see the newer characters being more prioritized. Ike was a different case from Robin because he appeared in multiple Fire Emblem games.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Actually, there is a very big factor as to why Shulk would still be relevant, but those would be massive Xenoblade 2 spoilers in the long run.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Actually, there is a very big factor as to why Shulk would still be relevant, but those would be massive Xenoblade 2 spoilers in the long run.

Unless he actually appears in Xenoblade 2, I seriously doubt it matters.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I hate Shulk, I hope he's cut in the next game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I hate Shulk, I hope he's cut in the next game.

Okay?

 

[Deleted member]

I hate Mario, I hope he's cut in the next game.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I have the feeling all of you must love your veterans. That could explain why Pichu won the last poll. I thought he wouldn't far well against the other starters, but that surprised me in the end. Just actual Pokemon popularity, Typholsion and Feraligatr had more love than Meganium (sad).

Next up, things will be interesting since I have not only a certain Pokken fan favorite, but a mon who grew beautiful in his Mega Evolution. Your picks are Heracross, Scizor, Wobbuffet, and Ampharos.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

 

[Deleted member]

I have the feeling all of you must love your veterans. That could explain why Pichu won the last poll. I thought he wouldn't far well against the other starters, but that surprised me in the end. Just actual Pokemon popularity, Typholsion and Feraligatr had more love than Meganium (sad).

Next up, things will be interesting since I have not only a certain Pokken fan favorite, but a mon who grew beautiful in his Mega Evolution. Your picks are Heracross, Scizor, Wobbuffet, and Ampharos.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

Wait, that's the last Gen 2 poll?

 

[Nonno Umby]

Unless he actually appears in Xenoblade 2, I seriously doubt it matters.

MASSIVE spoilers of both Xenoblade 1 and 2 endings

Spoiler

He kinda of does. Besides making vocal cameos, it is revealed that 2 happens in another dimension, but on the same time as 1, and that the two dimensions are parallels of each other. It is implyed that Shulk becaming a god and recreating the universe at the end of 1 is why the Titans are uniting in order to forge a new continent at the end of 2. So yeah, while he doesn't physically appear in 2 he is still relevant to the story.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

MASSIVE spoilers of both Xenoblade 1 and 2 endings

Spoiler

He kinda of does. Besides making vocal cameos, it is revealed that 2 happens in another dimension, but on the same time as 1, and that the two dimensions are parallels of each other. It is implyed that Shulk becaming a god and recreating the universe at the end of 1 is why the Titans are uniting in order to forge a new continent at the end of 2. So yeah, while he doesn't physically appear in 2 he is still relevant to the story.

Not sure why you're quoting what I said. I specifically said "Unless he actually APPEARS in Xenoblade 2"

Like, I don't wanna hear that Roy appeared as a baby at the end of Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade.

 

[Deleted member]

The "Rex must replace Shulk" arguments remind me of how Ike "replaced" Roy, and how it was believed that Chrom would replace Ike.

 

[Nonno Umby]

The "Rex must replace Shulk" arguments remind me of how Ike "replaced" Roy, and how it was believed that Chrom would replace Ike.

Exactly. Besides, Shulk and Rex would have completely different playstyle and moveset, having one replacing the other is like having Bowser replacing Donkey Kong.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The "Rex must replace Shulk" arguments remind me of how Ike "replaced" Roy, and how it was believed that Chrom would replace Ike.

Ike actually appeared in multiple Fire Emblem games as a main character. Shulk did not. So yeah, people who thought Chrom would replace Ike were dumb, but that's a weird comparison to apply to Shulk.

Exactly. Besides, Shulk and Rex would have completely different playstyle and moveset, having one replacing the other is like having Bowser replacing Donkey Kong.

Wow. My mind just exploded. WHAT?!

Also, nobody said anything about Rex & Pyra REPLACING Shulk. And having a unique move set doesn't make you a guaranteed stay.

 

[Deleted member]

The "Rex must replace Shulk" arguments remind me of how Ike "replaced" Roy, and how it was believed that Chrom would replace Ike.

Or how Lucas was supposed to replace Ness.
There's a reason as to why that didn't happen, and I feel that it's likely gonna apply again with Xenoblade.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Or how Lucas was supposed to replace Ness.
There's a reason as to why that didn't happen, and I feel that it's likely gonna apply again with Xenoblade.

Exactly. Besides, Shulk and Rex would have completely different playstyle and moveset, having one replacing the other is like having Bowser replacing Donkey Kong.

The "Rex must replace Shulk" arguments remind me of how Ike "replaced" Roy, and how it was believed that Chrom would replace Ike.

I hate when people don't understand that the characters that they compare are nothing alike.

Like one guy said Wii Fit Trainer wouldn't be cut because Captain Falcon hadn't had a game in years. Completely ignoring that Captain Falcon is a three time veteran who's series remained prominent throughout the first three Smash games and is from an SNES Classic.

And then N3ON was saying we could have a random Champion of The Ballad character because we had Greninja, but not the other X&Y starters. Like what the ****?

It's so infuriating to have to respond to a blatantly false dichotomy like someone presented you with a slam dunk.

 

[Bowserlick]

Shulk was the introduction to Xenoblade in Smash.

The series is going strong and now there is a new main character.
I believe Xenogear is a franchise that'll be represented by more than one fighter.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I guess there's just gonna be zero cuts in Super Smash Bros according to this thread.

 

[Cosmic77]

I guess there's just gonna be zero cuts in Super Smash Bros according to this thread.

It's not that we don't think anyone is getting cut, it's just that Shulk doesn't seem like a character to go.


I will agree with you on Corrin though. I think there's a good chance he/she could be left behind.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's not that we don't think anyone is getting cut, it's just that Shulk doesn't seem like a character to go.

It doesn't seem like ANY character is going to go according to you guys is what I'm saying.

 

[Bowserlick]

Cut predictions: Roy, Lucas, Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Cloud, Bayonetta, Lucina, Dark Pit