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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Dukeofdeath5

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IMO what'll make or break the leaks we have now is whether or not Skull Kid is in and the Pokemon rep is Incineroar.

I have a feeling there's gonna be chaos if neither of those things happen...
Incineroar wouldn't necessarily break the leaks. Verg claimed it was Gen 7 and assumed it would be Incineroar. However, if it were one of the pokemon he claimed it wasn't, or if it isn't a Gen 7, then things would fall into chaos
 

papagenos

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That's....Not Loz. This is also a response to papagenos papagenos because I've been seeing it a lot and have been trying to avoid talking about it. Loz is on a private discord server on a different name. He doesn't leak info right now. He responded to someone today about this silly leak. Its not him.

And please don't pm me for the link. I can provide screenshots of people want, but I'm not making the discord public.

ok cool thanks.

i didnt find that gaia online account by the way, just gave my two cents on whether or not it could be loz18, but i was not aware of a private discord with him just that he claimed to have made some account somewhere else.
 

Arcanir

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Characters I have a lot of confidence in:
Isabelle
Gen 7 Pokémon
Ken
Shadow

Characters I have a good amount of faith in:
Isaac
Geno
Elma
Dixie Kong
Black Knight
Skull Kid
Bandana Dee
Chorus Kids

Characters I think are a good possibility:
Medusa
Erdrick
Celica
Tails
Steve
Joker (Persona 5)/Flynn (SMTIV)
Excitebike
Lloyd
Heihachi
 

Primal Cookie

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Personally I think Verge is turning into our next Gematsu (correct at the start, but then gradually loses credibility after)
 

SebasSancy

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I don't know if I can call this a prediction, but they're my most wanted/most likely characters rn:

Newcomers
- Isaac
- Elma
- Gardevoir
- Heihachi
- Skull Kid
- Geno
- Rhythm Heaven rep (Karate Joe/Chorus Kids)
- Bandanna dee

Echoes
- Dixie Kong
- Isabelle
- Shadow/Tails
- Ken
- Black Shadow
- Medusa

DLC
- Banjo
- Rex & Pyra
- Pokémon gen 7 rep
- Pokémon gen 8 rep
- Octolings
- Spring Man/Ribbon Girl echo
- Agnes (that leak got me)
- FE Tree Houses rep
- more echoes like Jeanne, Black Knight, Funky Kong, etc
 
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Zathura

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I think what makes or breaks leaks now is the character select screen.

If you don’t bother showing it in your leak at all, then you’re a phony.

The way characters are ordered would be such a good way to test a leak’s credibility since unique character are orders by reveal time.
Yeah that's something that always rubs the wrong way with leaks and to me lets me know when they're fake immediately. When they're taking pictures of the pre-battle screen and renders in cs then why not just take a video or a picture in-game? Or a wider picture that isn't so blurry? It surprises me how often people fall for these things
 

Moon Monkey

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That sounds more like the Rabbids have a better shot than Rayman. :p

Also, is that a monkey with a green bowtie smoking a blunt?
Didn't Rabbids derive from the Rayman series?
I dont think it's too crazy to imagine getting a Rayman char and Rabbids assist trophy.

He's actually smoking a banana.:)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think what makes or breaks leaks now is the character select screen.

If you don’t bother showing it in your leak at all, then you’re a phony.

The way characters are ordered would be such a good way to test a leak’s credibility since unique character are orders by reveal time.
I do wonder if we're gonna get something like that this time. It seems impossible with how closed down Nintendo is with this game, but anything's possible when one considers the ESRB leak happened, I guess. If it were to happen, what time frame do you think it'll happen in? I personally would say somewhere in-between late October to early November.
 

Pacman High Tier

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Personally I think Verge is turning into our next Gematsu (correct at the start, but then gradually loses credibility after)
But Gematsu was always credible. The only thing it got wrong as far as I know were the Chorus Kids and that was only because, as we can tell from smash 4 datamines, they quite clearly got cut during development. Leakers aren't omnipotent, but Gematsu got everything right and the fact that the one it got "wrong" was planned anyway made me See It As Reliable.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I do wonder if we're gonna get something like that this time. It seems impossible with how closed down Nintendo is with this game, but anything's possible when one considers the ESRB leak happened, I guess. If it were to happen, what time frame do you think it'll happen in? I personally would say somewhere in-between late October to early November.
The ESRB already rated the game. No leak happened.
 

Arcadenik

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I mean, all newcomers we got in this game comes from eras that already covered (1980-2015).

Just because you have something, doesn't mean you can't ask for more. Brawl introduced a lot of old characters and people still wanted more in Smash For.
We want our favorite characters to get in Smash. Of course we want more until we are completely satisfied (in my case, give me Meowth and Toad and I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again). :awesome:

But still... it’s incredible how we have 70+ characters in Ultimate... from 1980 to 2015, maybe even to 2018... almost 40 years of video game history with a concentration of Nintendo history.

The 1980s
1980
:ultgnw::ultpacman:

1981
:ultmario::ultdk:

1983
:ultluigi:

1984
:ultlittlemac::ultduckhunt:

1985
:ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser:

1986
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultsnake::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:

1987
:ultryu::ultmegaman:

1989
:ultdaisy:

The 1990s
1990
:ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:

1991
:ultsonic:

1992
:ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:

1993
:ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:

1994
:ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool:

1996
:ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:

1997
:ultcloud:

1998
:ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf:

1999
:ultpichu:

The 2000s
2001
:ultvillager::ultolimar::ultroy:

2002
:ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:

2004
:ultzss::ultdarksamus:

2005
:ultike:

2006
:ultlucas::ultlucario::ultmiifighters:

2007
:ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:

2009
:ultbayonetta:

The 2010s
2010
:ultshulk:

2012
:ultdarkpit::ultrobin:ultlucina::ultchrom:

2013
:ultgreninja:

2015
:ultinkling::ultcorrin:
 

Dukeofdeath5

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But Gematsu was always credible. The only thing it got wrong as far as I know were the Chorus Kids and that was only because, as we can tell from smash 4 datamines, they quite clearly got cut during development. Leaker's aren't omnipotent, but Gematsu got everything right and the fact that the one it got "wrong" was planned anyway made me See It As Reliable.
He also got Chrom wrong, but from what I understand that was a similar "got cut" situation
 

Will

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Didn't Rabbids derive from the Rayman series?
I dont think it's too crazy to imagine getting a Rayman char and Rabbids assist trophy.

He's actually smoking a banana.:)
I guess.

okay but it was a reference
 

Paperchampion23

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ok cool thanks.

i didnt find that gaia online account by the way, just gave my two cents on whether or not it could be loz18, but i was not aware of a private discord with him just that he claimed to have made some account somewhere else.
Of course it's likely he can still do that, but closer to another Direct. So far the only thing he's told people is that he has knowledge of 2 other characters on the level of K. Rool (the nature of how he was revealed; aka, likely trailers for them). Interestingly enough, the only 2 characters Loz has ever talked about where Skull Kid and Isaac.

And that's not to say I trust him 100%, but he seems genuine for now. I do hope for your sake too and other fans that Vergeben is right and that Square rep is Geno in the end as well.

I'm personally banking in both having separate pieces to a bigger puzzle in terms of characters.
 

Zathura

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But Gematsu was always credible. The only thing it got wrong as far as I know were the Chorus Kids and that was only because, as we can tell from smash 4 datamines, they quite clearly got cut during development. Leakers aren't omnipotent, but Gematsu got everything right and the fact that the one it got "wrong" was planned anyway made me See It As Reliable.
Nah, the leak lost credibility because it said chrom would be absolutely playable, and said shulk was 100% going to be revealed one day, when it was robin, then the leaker stopped responding
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'd like to see it then. No, really, I'm serious. My issues with Incineroar are entirely personal and I understand that but part of me wants to believe he won't be our new Pokemon. I won't be surprised at all if/when Incineroar is revealed. Primarina is just the next one in the list due to being a starter but Tapu Koko or Golisopod(especially this one) would be just as pleasing(though I don't see the UBs as likely). But now it seems like your problem is with Primarina in specific.
As I said before, Decidueye and Incineroar would be the only two picked between the Starter set because their concepts would interest players (much like how Greninja being a ninja-based fighter did) and their designs can easily be adapted into Smash. Primarina has the issue of being of a rather unfeasible design to work in Smash's setting. As for the concept....an archer and a wrestler are going to be much more enticing of fighting concepts than an idol/siren. If neither the archer or the wrestler are picked, the other options outside the starter set are much more believable.
If Primarina had a more workable design and interesting concept, I'd be seeing it as a legitimate possibility. I have no "problem" with Primarina specifically (even if I like Brionne more because it's basically Astolfo as a Pokémon; don't tell me you can't see it too :V). Just that there are too many inherent issues with it that make predicting it over all other options unreasonable.


As for what Incineroar has over the other options, I'm going to try to keep it as brief as possible.

When the initial proposal for Ultimate's design (which is usually when the characters are decided upon), this was before Sun and Moon were even announced to the public.
So Sakurai would have to do what he did with Greninja and look at the various concept arts to see which Pokémon would "fit" the most in his head.



Just of the Starters alone, Incineroar shows the most potential from the concept art by itself. Other Pokémon could have interesting enough concepts that he could have seen earlier than us, but there's a lot Sakurai could think of with Incineroar's concept of a heel wrestler tiger, especially with Tiger Mask being as big as he is in Japan to the point he's been defictionalized and portrayed by several different people in Japanese wrestling history.


And bear in mind who else is working on Smash Ultimate. Namco-Bandai. Surely they could help inspire a brutal wrestler style not yet seen in Smash with cues from one or two of their own characters?




The concept art also implies something rather interesting. Incineroar would be present in anime among the main cast. Particularly with Ash.
And so far, Ash has a Torracat that has a fierce yet friendly rivalry with another Incineroar, with strong implications that it will be resolved with an Incineroar vs. Incineroar match.
So what does it mean for back then? That Incineroar was pretty much said to have future prominence, something Sakurai considers.
Also of note that the following year, for the 20th anniversary movie no less, Incineroar was featured as the antagonist's main Pokémon, and one of only three Gen 7 Pokémon to be featured in the entire film (outside of brief cameos in the credits). So it shows that Incineroar is being pushed considerably.
None of the remaining options have this sort of claim.

Does this mean Incineroar is a lock? No. But it has the most going for it among the options.
 

MBRedboy31

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Didn't Rabbids derive from the Rayman series?
I dont think it's too crazy to imagine getting a Rayman char and Rabbids assist trophy.
The Rabbids series has since completely split off from Rayman, to the point of having a completely different setting (Rabbids games started taking place in what is basically Earth, unlike Rayman’s games.) It’s more comparable to how Warioware barely relates to main series Mario, in that the main character(s) are from another series but pretty much everything else is different such as the setting and the supporting cast.

Still, they might do that... or they might theoretically do the reverse, who knows?
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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Messages
23,689
We want our favorite characters to get in Smash. Of course we want more until we are completely satisfied (in my case, give me Meowth and Toad and I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again). :awesome:

But still... it’s incredible how we have 70+ characters in Ultimate... from 1980 to 2015, maybe even to 2018... almost 40 years of video game history with a concentration of Nintendo history.

The 1980s
1980
:ultgnw::ultpacman:

1981
:ultmario::ultdk:

1983
:ultluigi:

1984
:ultlittlemac::ultduckhunt:

1985
:ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser:

1986
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultsnake::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:

1987
:ultryu::ultmegaman:

1989
:ultdaisy:

The 1990s
1990
:ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:

1991
:ultsonic:

1992
:ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:

1993
:ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:

1994
:ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool:

1996
:ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:

1997
:ultcloud:

1998
:ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf:

1999
:ultpichu:

The 2000s
2001
:ultvillager::ultolimar::ultroy:

2002
:ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:

2004
:ultzss::ultdarksamus:

2005
:ultike:

2006
:ultlucas::ultlucario::ultmiifighters:

2007
:ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:

2009
:ultbayonetta:

The 2010s
2010
:ultshulk:

2012
:ultdarkpit::ultrobin:ultlucina::ultchrom:

2013
:ultgreninja:

2015
:ultinkling::ultcorrin:
Thanks for the effort, it looks really cool. And gee, we could really use a few newer characters. (don't @ me)

Btw, my predictions:
5 unique characters are Isaac, Bandana Dee, Elma, Isabelle and Chorus Kids
5 echoes are Shadow, Matthew, Dixie Kong and... that's it, make it three echoes.
 

osby

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I don't consider Incineroar likely but Sakurai likes manly characters, so...
 

Dee Dude

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Wow, I actually kinda forgot about the Rabbids.

Considering Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle was a well liked game and Ninty and Ubi have good ties, I almost say they’re as likely as Rayman.

Then again, they were probably Pre-E3 speculated characters similar to Decidueye so nvm lol.
 
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Buzzwole

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Wow, I actually kinda forgot about the Rabbids.

Considering Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle was a well liked game and Ninty and Ubi have good ties, I almost say they’re as likely as Rayman.

Then again, they’re probably Pre-E3 speculated characters similar to Decidueye so nvm lol.
Honestly, Rabbids feel more like assist trophy material to me.
 

Dukeofdeath5

Smash Lord
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The Rabbids series has since completely split off from Rayman, to the point of having a completely different setting (Rabbids games started taking place in what is basically Earth, unlike Rayman’s games.) It’s more comparable to how Warioware barely relates to main series Mario, in that the main character(s) are from another series but pretty much everything else is different such as the setting and the supporting cast.

Still, they might do that... or they might theoretically do the reverse, who knows?
I think it'd be pretty crazy if Sakurai looked at the Rabids and Rayman, then sorted the mascot face/namesake of the franchise with a defined personality into the AT role and the dime a dozen little gremlins who don't really have unique characterizations within their ranks, they're all just little ****s, into the character pick.... that'd be surprising at least considering what he's selected in the past.
 
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Moon Monkey

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The Rabbids series has since completely split off from Rayman, to the point of having a completely different setting (Rabbids games started taking place in what is basically Earth, unlike Rayman’s games.) It’s more comparable to how Warioware barely relates to main series Mario, in that the main character(s) are from another series but pretty much everything else is different such as the setting and the supporting cast.

Still, they might do that... or they might theoretically do the reverse, who knows?
While this is true and I feel like Wario has split off from Mario's Universe much earlier by starring in the Wario Land games, I feel like Rayman would ultimately be chosen over Rabbids. It was his trophy that and in Smash Wii U after all.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
As I said before, Decidueye and Incineroar would be the only two picked between the Starter set because their concepts would interest players (much like how Greninja being a ninja-based fighter did) and their designs can easily be adapted into Smash. Primarina has the issue of being of a rather unfeasible design to work in Smash's setting. As for the concept....an archer and a wrestler are going to be much more enticing of fighting concepts than an idol/siren. If neither the archer or the wrestler are picked, the other options outside the starter set are much more believable.
If Primarina had a more workable design and interesting concept, I'd be seeing it as a legitimate possibility. I have no "problem" with Primarina specifically (even if I like Brionne more because it's basically Astolfo as a Pokémon; don't tell me you can't see it too :V). Just that there are too many inherent issues with it that make predicting it over all other options unreasonable.


As for what Incineroar has over the other options, I'm going to try to keep it as brief as possible.

When the initial proposal for Ultimate's design (which is usually when the characters are decided upon), this was before Sun and Moon were even announced to the public.
So Sakurai would have to do what he did with Greninja and look at the various concept arts to see which Pokémon would "fit" the most in his head.



Just of the Starters alone, Incineroar shows the most potential from the concept art by itself. Other Pokémon could have interesting enough concepts that he could have seen earlier than us, but there's a lot Sakurai could think of with Incineroar's concept of a heel wrestler tiger, especially with Tiger Mask being as big as he is in Japan to the point he's been defictionalized and portrayed by several different people in Japanese wrestling history.


And bear in mind who else is working on Smash Ultimate. Namco-Bandai. Surely they could help inspire a brutal wrestler style not yet seen in Smash with cues from one or two of their own characters?




The concept art also implies something rather interesting. Incineroar would be present in anime among the main cast. Particularly with Ash.
And so far, Ash has a Torracat that has a fierce yet friendly rivalry with another Incineroar, with strong implications that it will be resolved with an Incineroar vs. Incineroar match.
So what does it mean for back then? That Incineroar was pretty much said to have future prominence, something Sakurai considers.
Also of note that the following year, for the 20th anniversary movie no less, Incineroar was featured as the antagonist's main Pokémon, and one of only three Gen 7 Pokémon to be featured in the entire film (outside of brief cameos in the credits). So it shows that Incineroar is being pushed considerably.
None of the remaining options have this sort of claim.

Does this mean Incineroar is a lock? No. But it has the most going for it among the options.
I still don't think the "Primarina's design isn't feasible" when that is easily worked around or may even be THE reason to pick him but I see wh Incineroar is considered so likely
even if I like Brionne more because it's basically Astolfo as a Pokémon; don't tell me you can't see it too
Brionne plushie that kisses you goodnight and validates your sexuality.
 

IGuessItsOver

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Excuse me? Tails a "Never ever"?

You do realize he got a Mii costume that thus far has proven to be fruitful for some of our newcomers and/or they at least got an upgraded role. (And funnily enough Shadow didn't get one, though I certainly don't think that means Tails is more likely then Shadow)

I get still doubting Tails being playable. But a "Never ever" at this point? The only reason he's not as high up as Shadow in the expectations is because the goalposts of "More then one 3rd party franchise reps can't happen" has moved to "They can happen but they can only be echoes" after Richter's inclusion. And if that's broken at any point in this game's lifetime then Tails has a good shot.
Come on man, we already have Bayonetta, Sonic, Knuckles and possibly Shadow.
I understand your point of view with the whole "no more than 2 chars per franchise" but i mean, there will be 4 SEGA characters if we assume Shadow is gonna make it in.
 
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Dee Dude

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I’m just shocked there’s no playable felines in Smash yet.

We already have primates, canines, birds, and reptiles so far.

Incineroar, Meowth or anyone really could do the job :V.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Not gonna happen.

With Sakurai planning to reveal all characters before launch, I don’t think even review copies are a good avenue for such a leak.
Yeah, that's a good point. Review copies probably won't even be received by major news sites until a week or two before release, and I imagine the full roster will be shown off way before then.

TBH, I'm kinda happy the odds of a major leak happening are low this go around. Being surprised by these reveals is way more fun than just sitting around and waiting for something expected to happen. :p
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Speaking of the ESRB, I wonder if they ever found out who leaked all that Smash 4 stuff.
Iirc, the leak was only being shared with a certain group of friends but one of them leaked the entire thing(though Ninka had leaked that stuff in text form before that)
 

Starbound

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My predictions:

- Incineroar
- Isaac
- Geno
- Chorus Kids
- Isabelle (echo)
- Ken (echo)
- Tails (echo)
- Celica (echo)
 

papagenos

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Of course it's likely he can still do that, but closer to another Direct. So far the only thing he's told people is that he has knowledge of 2 other characters on the level of K. Rool (the nature of how he was revealed; aka, likely trailers for them). Interestingly enough, the only 2 characters Loz has ever talked about where Skull Kid and Isaac.

And that's not to say I trust him 100%, but he seems genuine for now. I do hope for your sake too and other fans that Vergeben is right and that Square rep is Geno in the end as well.

I'm personally banking in both having separate pieces to a bigger puzzle in terms of characters.

Yeah nothing either one has "leaked" contradicts the other so far, so i agree i think they have separate pieces of info that are slowly forming the final game roster but we'll have to wait and see.
 
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Moon Monkey

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I do feel like people are ruling out Tails. While Shadow's is pretty likely I don't think any of the prominent leakers have said him by name yet.
I’m just shocked there’s no playable felines in Smash yet.

We already have primates, canines, birds, and reptiles so far.

Incineroar, Meowth or anyone really could do the job :V.
Where is Jibanyan love
 
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Paperchampion23

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Yeah nothing either one has "leaked" contradicts the other so far, so i agree i think they have separate pieces of info that slowly form the final game roster but we'll have to wait and see.

Hey, it happened with Brawl! It could definitely happen again.
 
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